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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Rafin said:
This is a Clan to Clan negotiation. Her being our beloved just means that the Clan Heads generally trust each other on a personal level. It does not mean that either Clan's members should perceive one Head as being suborned to the other through seduction.

The Yamanaka are an allied Clan, so the deal can be an above board and favorable one. But it still has to be a fair one. They get a capability they wouldn't get elsewhere. We should get the same. They know what Goo Bombs are worth to them. We trust them that an offer that seems of equivalent value probably is of equivalent value. The Yamanaka Elders have a certain degree of influence over Ino's decision making. The Gokētsu have two Elders of their own and the Clan Heir is a trusted advisor as well.
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Ah, yes. This. This also articulates the point that I was trying to make, but does so far more succinctly.
 
Can we spin our Resolve Boosting needs as dealing with the sealing headaches Ino just expressed concern about? I'm pretty sure more Resolve is also more mental consequence slots, so it adds up mechanically and narratively.
 
Black King said:
Goo Bombs for Resolve-Boosting Jutsu. Turn it into a contract with more Goketsu seals and see if Mari approves
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...I see a few things wrong with this.
  • Seals are a one time use, reliant on a continuous supply. Jutsu can be taught to anyone after they've been learned. The original tutor has no control over what their students do with the jutsu.
    • Even if we give her the research notes, it wouldn't be a TN60 attack. The resultant seal would have a TN based on the Yamanaka Sealmaster's sealing level. The whole reason Ino wants Goo Bombs is for her genin to have a TN60 attack available to them.
  • Goo Bombs aren't as great as a what you're asking for.
  • Mari said that doing such a thing would be asking for a jutsu that inherently makes Yamanaka jutsu less effective on thr caster.
    • Not only would trading away a Resolve Boosting jutsu empower Hazou, it would also weaken the Yamanaka Clan because it would make their jutsu less effective on him.
    • It also opens up the threat of propagation. What if Hazou teaches the jutsu to Team Uplift? Or the wider Goketsu Ninja? What if he sells it to another clan, or makes it public domain? The Yamanaka Clan would be horrifically weakened, permanently.
 
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RandomOTP said:
...I see a few things wrong with this.
  • Seals are a one time use, reliant on a continuous supply. Jutsu can be taught after they've been learned.
    • Even if we give her the research notes, it wouldn't be a TN60 attack. The resultant seal would have a TN based on the Yamanaka Selamaster's sealing level. The whole reason Ino wants Goo Bombs is for her genin to have a TN60 attack available to them.
  • Goo Bombs aren't as great as a what you're asking for.
  • Mari said that doing such a thing would be asking for a jutsu that inherently makes Yamanaka jutsu less effective on thr caster.
    • Not only would trading away a Resolve Boosting jutsu empower Hazou, it would also weaken the Yamanaka Clan because it would make their jutsu less effective on him.
    • It also opens up the threat of propagation. What if Hazou teaches the jutsu to Team Uplift? Or the wider Goketsu Ninja? What if he sells it to another clan, or makes it public domain? The Yamanaka Clan would be horrifically weakened, permanently.
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This is fair, but I also meant a Pangolin-esque deal of continuous supply, not the one time seal or trading the secret of how to make it.

The propagation is a fair point as well...I wonder if there's a way to bind how many people learn the jutsu. If not, would a promise from Hazou not to teach it work? (Which would suck as Kei and Mari can use it too)
 
absoluteblack said:
Can we spin our Resolve Boosting needs as dealing with the sealing headaches Ino just expressed concern about? I'm pretty sure more Resolve is also more mental consequence slots, so it adds up mechanically and narratively.
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Hazou doesn't need them for help with his headaches. He's been managing it just fine, and has been reassuring Ino with this knowledge for a long while now. To turn around and say differently, while asking for a high-opsec Yamanaka Clan Secret, would require a Deceit Roll...

Hazou's Deceit isn't great.

(I would also vote against this idea on principle)
 
Don't we already have a Yamanaka resolve boosting jutsu? Did the Yamanaka not literally gift it to Leaf, partially to see if it actually worked, meaning that they are using it themselves, meaning that they don't have something more obviously effective?

Or are we talking about a jutsu that boost resolve temporarily?
 
Black King said:
This is fair, but I also meant a Pangolin-esque deal of continuous supply
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The deal that Hazou so famously broke off? That every Leaf Summoner knows about?

What about once Hazou dies? A pinky-promise not to teach our family members might be enough... but remember that we've repeatedly gone "pretty damn far" to ensure their safety and well-being. Promising not to give them a Resolve Boosting Jutsu might not be believable. Especially with how mercurial Hazou-the-character's beliefs, moods, and projects are.

Remember, Velorien himself described Hazou-the-character as "insane," and even Kei has remarked on how chaotic Hazou is (going so far as to unconsciously compare him to Ami).
 
Rafin said:
Don't we already have a Yamanaka resolve boosting jutsu? Did the Yamanaka not literally gift it to Leaf, partially to see if it actually worked, meaning that they are using it themselves, meaning that they don't have something more obviously effective?

Or are we talking about a jutsu that boost resolve temporarily?
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Also this. They might not even have a temporary Resolve Boost. Heck, Ino said that the Yamanaka Clan and the Nara Clan weren't even really sure that the YSJ even did anything, and that releasing it to the wider Leaf during Asuma's Competition was a social experiment to see if the YSJ actually did anything.
 
I mostly like it as part of a multi-layered pitch for why Hazou, specifically, needs a justu for temporary Resolve boosts (it's not even really a lie!). Resisting Dragons also makes a lot of sense, maybe just Auras in general, we seem to run into them often enough. Even if Hazou is 'managing', in the sense that he isn't going to melt his brain, a temp jutsu 'for tricky infusions', or to let him get back to sealing faster, or reduce the impact of the headache - which another consequence slot would do? - feels reasonable to ask for. These are real and compelling needs that 1) aren't FOOM-revealing and 2) personal enough to leave leeway for the Yamanaka to restrict the jutsu's spread to limit the relative damage done to their own power.

All of this assumes such jutsu exist and the Yamanaka have them, ofc, I don't think we actually have any specific evidence one way or the other.
 
I'm going to say it again, a resolve boosting jutsu is not a good thing to bargain for. We don't need to be spending more XP to get more XP in the future. We can just start spending our XP to get better now
 
eaglejarl said:
Gōketsu something, one of the Academy students and oh crap, Hazō couldn't remember his name! Was he still a student or had he graduated? "My Lord, you must come to the Tower right away!"
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@eaglejarl I asked this before, but I'd like to ask again: Does the Gokētsu Clan actually have one or more ninja academy students? If yes, wouldn't this be a really important milestone and shouldn't such students matter a lot to Hazō and team Uplift and such? Or was that a throwaway line that wasn't discussed with other QMs or rolled for and might be retconned?

I feel really strange about the idea that Hazō would just let this completely pass him by and that the event of the first Gokētsu civilian being scouted and accepted to Leaf Academy wasn't something worthy of a Gaku interrupt or whatever. These young minds are literally our legacy to Uplift, should we manage to achieve neither immortality nor the elimination of the Clan system. In the absence of Hazō (or any other Gokētsu ninja) becoming a biological parent, we should be treating them close to our own children.

Also, as I mentioned before, together with Ebisu we literally proved that Academy students benefit from Clan attention outside of school. And the KEI is currently being really stingy with adoption tickets, so we can't just try and pick the most promising young genin to adopt. So it behooves us to make sure that genin born into our Clan are promising young genin themselves.
 
ProperAttorney said:
Well, we'll have to hope the QMs use [Google Docs for word counts] and not Word then, won't we? Lmao
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We do. At least in part because I'm on Mac and don't have Word.

Rafin said:
@eaglejarl I asked this before, but I'd like to ask again: Does the Gokētsu Clan actually have one or more ninja academy students? If yes, wouldn't this be a really important milestone and shouldn't such students matter a lot to Hazō and team Uplift and such? Or was that a throwaway line that wasn't discussed with other QMs or rolled for and might be retconned?
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That line could be adequately understood to mean "EJ's brain is made of cheese so he couldn't remember all the Gōketsu ninja and when he looked it up he chose an outdated list instead of the correct one." It's not something I'm super concerned about but yeah, at some point I should retcon that.
 
Speaking of, I wonder if we can get control of our (soon) Academy Graduate's character sheet? Narratively, it would be Hazou taking a personal investment in our first Acadeny Graduate's survival. And Kei/Noburi can attest to the quality. Heck, even Shikamaru wanted to get acess to Hazou's training plans, before we invoked Clan Secrets.
 
RandomOTP said:
[X] Training Plan (Kei): Support for Deceit to 20

Shadow Guardians 1 -> 10 (-18 Yamanaka XP, -8.5 General XP)
Deceit 15 -> 19 (-70xp)

0 Yamanaka XP Remaining
13.5 General XP Remaining
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RandomOTP said:
[X] Training Plan (Noburi): A 30-Stat for 40
Resolve 29 -> 30 (-30 General XP)

18 General XP Remaining
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@eaglejarl, @Velorien , @Paperclipped
These training plans passed with nine and five votes, respectively... any chance we could get their character sheets updated?

[slide over a totally-not-bribe 🍪 ]
 
eaglejarl said:
That line could be adequately understood to mean "EJ's brain is made of cheese so he couldn't remember all the Gōketsu ninja and when he looked it up he chose an outdated list instead of the correct one." It's not something I'm super concerned about but yeah, at some point I should retcon that.
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Understood.

Then let this be me informing the QMs that I would be very interested in reading about any Gokētsu civilian kids being accepted into the Academy, both narratively and for IC instrumental reasons. I don't know of this is true for anyone else, but I'd be surprised if it isn't. The experience of such a kid is bound to be unique. Not quite a "mudfoot", but as close to it as possible while simultaneously being Clan. Grew up in a weird Clan with whatever ideology actually trickled down from Hazō's speeches to this community of several hundred people he lifted out of poverty. Might have been going to a proper elementary school before being accepted into the Academy, so outstripping most of his peers in basic reading and math skills. Has weird understanding of the Will of Fire, or brings the "proper" one back home. Might be the first example of what inborn Clan entitlement might look like for a Gokētsu.
 
Rafin said:
Gokētsu civilian kids being accepted into the Academy
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Do you mean first generation ninja (such as Honoka), or actual civilians in the Ninja Academy? Because there are a string of Interludes for the former... but the latter doesn't exist. Civilians in MfD either go to GED (if they're one of the Goketsu's many civis), learn a trade, or are uneducated.
 
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RandomOTP said:
Same. Goo Bombs also scale to the ability of the Sealmaster making them, so while I trust Ino not to steal them from the Goketsu, it's also not a major loss if some Yamanaka ninja tries their luck.

Honestly, I'd be willing to sell them for whatever Hazou-pilot and Mari think is reasonable... though basic money seems kinda boring. We also have infinite money from ES50.

Maybe we could ask for some political help ingratiating the Goketsu Clan with the Akimichi Clan? It seems like something Ino would be in favor of doing, it would help sway one of the neutral clans towards favoring the Goketsu...

It would be a minor favor in return for... say 6 months of supplying Goo Bomb Seals? And the contract can be renegotiated at the end of the six months?
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Nah let's go hard. Offer 200 a month for at least the next year to be renegotiated then in exchange for a resolve boosting jutsu to be kept as an Gōketsu elders clan secret.

"HI I'm a genin who nosells absolutely anyone if they can't kill me for a few rounds. My clan heads paramore gave me a seal that attacks nonlethally at 60 ^_^"

... should we just propose to Ino? Like actually, why not? Let's double up on secret sauce for Hazō as well. Now all we need is to get noburi engaged to an Akimichi Heir and the new sannin will be good to go
 
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