Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Velorien · Dec 22, 2022

Oneiros said:
@Paperclipped, @eaglejarl @Velorien can we get a rough description of what Nara Jutsu are available for Kei? I'd like to start spending some of her XP but don't want to box her in if there's something super cool

We're putting together a shortlist and will get back to you. There will definitely be something super cool.

Cariyaga · Dec 22, 2022

Oneiros said:
These aren't super complicated problems tbh. We just don't reveal that Jiraiya is back until we want things to pop off. So just keep him secured and out of chakra until he's willing to play ball.

Let's assume that, for whatever reason (he disagrees, Asuma disagrees, someone finds out), that isn't workable, just for the sake of working these problems out from all angles.

roobee · Dec 22, 2022

What if the place we saw is actually naraka instead of the pure lands. Well if jiraiya is naraka then most ninja we would want to rescue would also be naraka so still works out

Edit: what if most ninja go to naraka. But jiraiya went to pure lands we saw. Then people we rescue would be on average better ninja, although fewer people to rescue

Oneiros · Dec 22, 2022

Cariyaga said:
Let's assume that, for whatever reason (he disagrees, Asuma disagrees, someone finds out), that isn't workable, just for the sake of working these problems out from all angles.

Honestly I think we should just go for whatever we decide our end game is. We've been FOOMing to get the strength to change the elemental nations and when things pop off their going to pop off hard. Will all most likely be at least elite jounin level and hopefully we can get Jiraiya to teach us some of his premium tricks.

roobee · Dec 22, 2022

Well jashin cultist went to rift. So I'll amend to most non-young ninja.

Also re the sealing failure event. Kagome couldn't even lift 50 civilians. I expected more of Ninja

Anderkent · Dec 22, 2022

Oneiros said:
He doesn't have chakra in the after life. So we bring him out and then have Noburi drain him every day. Without chakra he's just a guy

We don't know he's without chakra vs chakra not working in the afterlife, right?
tho given that it's not his original body over there, it's not even clear he'll be capable of using chakra after being resurrected without some bioengineering

Shrooms · Dec 22, 2022

Anderkent said:
vs chakra not working in the afterlife, right?

Hazou could use chakra in the afterlife, otherwise he couldn't have used skywalkers. However, the seals wore out faster due to being drained and Hazou himself was noticeably drained I believe.

Jiraiya also mentioned not letting the afterlife 'have his chakra' hence he wasn't wasting his as much as he could. Maybe it was just draining him very slowly, or maybe he could regenerate faster than he was drained due to large reserves, or maybe Sage Mode shenanigans (assuming Naraka has nature chakra and Jiraiya doesn't need ma and pa to help him use SM)

Sir Stompy · Dec 22, 2022

Shrooms said:
Sage Mode shenanigans (assuming Naraka has nature chakra and Jiraiya doesn't need ma and pa to help him use SM)

Canonically, you can use SM by yourself just fine as long as you don't need to move. So it's useless in combat without Ma and PA, but you could regenerate your chakra with it and then fight.

RandomOTP · Dec 22, 2022

Sir Stompy said:
Canonically, you can use SM by yourself just fine as long as you don't need to move. So it's useless in combat without Ma and PA, but you could regenerate your chakra with it and then fight.

IIRC, canon-Naruto used Shadow Clones to stay still and accumulate Nature chakra, and then popped and allowed Prime to absorb the Nature Chakra when the Clone pops.

Shrooms · Dec 22, 2022

RandomOTP said:
IIRC, canon-Naruto used Shadow Clones to stay still and accumulate Nature chakra, and then popped and allowed Prime to absorb the Nature Chakra when the Clone pops.

I mean if Jiraiya can also use SM alone there's no reason Jiraiya couldn't do that too (in MfD and out) assuming it works in mfd.

Sir Stompy said:
Canonically, you can use SM by yourself just fine as long as you don't need to move. So it's useless in combat without Ma and PA, but you could regenerate your chakra with it and then fight.

I think in canon Jiraiya never became a perfect Sage (which is why he looks like a frog while using it) and couldn't do it without Ma and Pa at all, but whether that's true in mfd we don't know

eaglejarl · Dec 22, 2022

Sir Stompy said:
Since Nobs had to Summon them for this, do we get to know how much they cost?

No.

Velorien · Dec 22, 2022

Chapter 567: Secrets that Never Were

There continued to be plenty of scaffolding to sit on dotted around the Hokage Monument—the latest situation with the Sixth Hokage's head carving was that some dangerous imperfections had been detected in the rock around the projected nose area, and so the stonecarvers' blueprints would have to be significantly revised before they could proceed further. So far, the only part of the carving that was remotely complete was the chin. In fairness, Hyūga Hiashi had possessed a very fine chin, masculine but not exaggerated, but even that body part was apparently coming under question as some carvers were asking whether the proportions would fit properly with the current cheekbone designs. There was a risk that they would have to abandon it and start from scratch.

It was on one of these scaffolds, placed roughly where Hyūga's furrowed brow would be if issues with the chisel supply hadn't delayed that part of the work, that Snowflake sat with a canvas, sketching an image of Leaf in twilight. Hazō, coming up behind her, could identify the cold grandeur of the Hyūga compound in the spiked straight lines, the flickering lamps of the red light district in the brief curves, and, of course, the ominous majesty of the Hokage Tower in a single stacking spiral rising to the heavens.

"Hi, Snowflake."

Snowflake put down her brush.

"As it happens, Prime is training in my place today. You are addressing Shard, so named by Moonlight to evoke the image of a mirror shard, broken away from the static duty of reflection and capable of portraying any image. Also, possessed of very sharp edges. I have been assigned uncensored self-expression."

"Oh," Hazō said. "Pleased to meet you, Shard. Thanks for meeting me out here. I badly needed to get away from Gak—various unimportant duties. Let me tell you, trying to beautify the estate when I'm the only person capable of using Earthshaping and, currently, Multiple Earth Walls, and I have to wrestle with my civilian contractors to do either, and when none of my other clan head duties have gone anywhere, and when there are people to get settled in, is a nightmare. I dread to think what kind of things I might be letting slip past me while I'm distracted."

Shard gave him a look he couldn't quite figure out. "Indeed."

A strange, tense silence settled in the air between them.

Was that a hint? Was there something he'd already been distracted from?

"Prime had thought," Shard said coldly, "and I agree, that it was unfair for Kei to give you warning of the need for an apology. It robbed you of the opportunity to come to the necessary realisation yourself, and apologise of your own will. Such an opportunity can make a great deal of difference to two people's relationship, as illustrated by Mari and Kei. It seems, however, that she overestimated you as she is wont to do."

Apology? Oh, hell, the Elemental Mastery thing.

"Shard, I'm sorry—"

"No," Shard interrupted. "As you are apparently incapable of modelling our feelings, or perhaps being moved by them, after being instructed to, and as explaining exactly how I feel is more or less my literal raison d'être, you can listen quietly until I am done, Hazō.

"Kei's wound from this vile debacle was your refusal to share your creative planning, your true heart, with her, or to allow her to express her own love the best way she can. My expectations of our family bond were not so lofty, nor am I unaware that trust not extended to Kei could never be extended to me. I shall forego the question of whether my existence had any meaning to you at all in your calculations, or whether Kei plus Snowflake did not equal anything more than Kei. Instead, allow me to speak of agency, my sole, inalienable possession.

"I, too, have people to protect, places, an entire world I have only just begun to learn. What gives you the right to endanger them unilaterally, with your brilliant idea that has no function but to wreak havoc on geopolitics? What gives you the right to deny all of your family's, all of this village's, all of humanity's agency in one fell swoop? Would you even have involved Akane had you not needed her as your instrument, or would she have joined us in mute ignorance as our fate was decided in the background?

"Your decisions are ever thus: sweeping in scope and unilateral in nature. Kei satisfies herself with the slow drip of lessons learned, with the privilege of finally being consulted on her fate. The rest bow to you the visionary, their role to implement your will with the occasional course correction, no matter how many times you prove that genius does not correlate with wisdom. Perhaps there is no choice, for if there is one thing that will doom the world for certain, it is inaction. But you are not the Chosen One, Hazō. You possess no heavenly mandate to dismiss our will because it is inconvenient.

"It is the same with your other project. Ignore the civilians you have no convenient means to poll. Ignore the ninja who might not understand the brilliance, the necessity of your plan, and therefore possess no rights in this discussion. But did you ever ask us, your family, for our opinions? You did not even know how Kei felt about Jiraiya. Do you know how she feels about Lord Shikaku, whose return would heal the broken heart of one precious to her, restore a clan she struggles to rebuild after endless disasters, and provide Leaf with guidance it may need much more than another strong arm? Do you know what Jiraiya is to Yuno, or what he weighs next to her parents, whose loss set her on her path of pain and isolation? Have you asked Akane if she treasures Jiraiya over Maito Gai, the one man who might still be able to save her heart? Have you asked, even once, whether Kagome has loved ones on the other side?

"To me, if you care to know, Jiraiya means little beyond what he means to Kei and the rest of you. I am not his daughter. I am a peculiar ninjutsu effect, and I cannot know if he will ever see me as anything more or merely dismiss me with idle tolerance as a curiosity. The father I would see restored is my own, Senju Tobirama, both so he can be called to account and because he alone can find a way to free me and my brethren, or at least make us less dependent.

"It is appalling enough when you choose other people's futures without their knowledge or consent. But I am my choices, Hazō. Their consequences are all that will remain of me when Kei falls asleep tonight, or for the final time. For you to make them for me, in my absence, in my ignorance, is as close to murder as you can get while allowing Kei to be safe."

Hazō sat in silence after she was done, ostensibly waiting in case she had anything else to add, but in practice not knowing what to say. Where Kei's suffering had been very personal, stemming from fundamental features of her personality which she'd taken pains to explain to him, Shard's seemed like a comprehensive denunciation of Hazō's entire approach. Still, he felt that behind the more distanced perspective lay the same basic message. Shard—Snowflake—felt that she didn't matter to him because, when push came to shove, he had a tendency to act like she didn't exist. Today was a product of carelessness. But when it came to Elemental Mastery or rift research, or, frankly, the majority of his projects, Snowflake wasn't an advisor like Mari or an optimiser like Kei. He'd thought that meant it was fine not to involve her with his planning unless she was relevant, the way he didn't Akane, Noburi, Yuno, or Kagome-sensei (or, indeed, every other Gōketsu), but now that she'd called him out on it… was he really not interested in his loved ones' opinions outside their spheres of expertise? What did that say about him if it was true?

"I'm sorry, Shard," he said. "You're right. I should have cared about your opinion, whether it was instrumentally useful or not."

Shard nodded. "I hope you understand that the trust between us has been shaken. Kindness and respect can be sharply devalued when it appears that they are expressed only in person and only when it is convenient or easy to remember."

"I will do better in the future," Hazō said. "I promise."

Shard nodded again. "I cannot say I am in the most social of moods now, self-expression or no self-expression, but I do have additional missives to convey from Kei before I can depart."

"Go on," Hazō said.

"First, am I to understand that Akane has not spoken to you regarding the recent changes in her behaviour?"

"Recent... Oh, thank the Sage and all his many brothers! I wasn't imagining it!"

"Indeed," Shard said. "Subsequent to your conversation, Kei and Prime have judged that enlisting your assistance in the project is a higher priority than superior OPSEC or protection of our own safety."

"What project?" Hazō asked. It was the best news he'd had all day. Both Akane's unnatural fake happiness and the weird sense of distance between them had been starting to frighten him, especially when the most perceptive woman in the clan responded by acting as if nothing was wrong.

"This is nothing to be discussed in an unsecured setting," Shard said, "but you may speak to Akane and inform her that I advise her to enlist your aid. The earlier you can begin, the better."

"Cryptic," Hazō said, "but I'll do my best. You said there was more?"

Shard handed him a piece of paper.

"Prime speculated that you intended to discuss bedroom arrangements, and we would certainly like bedrooms to ourselves in order to conduct various experiments with self-definition, but she was of the opinion that after reading Kei's message, you would wish time alone to think."

Hazō scanned the paper.

Hazō, pursuant to our earlier conversation, I have attempted to compile a list of individuals and groups which may be aware of the rift and/or your research, together with probabilities, sources of information, and the rationale behind my analysis where I felt it was beneficial to include it. I gleaned some additional information from your descriptions of your preparations for the first research mission to the rift site, as mentioned to Shikamaru in the process of having him recruit for the mission on your behalf.

I apologise for having previously overlooked certain key proliferation factors. I am aware that this represents a significant failure in my role as contingency planner. Please do not hesitate to contact me for further discussion if necessary.

Knowledge (rift)

Knowledge (research programme)

Chance of learning of rift/programme

Chance of attempting research
if aware of rift

Notes

Sarutobi Asuma

CONFIRMED
(direct, reports)

N/A

Very High
(will control yours)

Granted permission for your research missions.

Akatsuki

CONFIRMED
(Itachi, Hidan)

Low
(unless physical evidence at rift site observed)

N/A

Very High
(skilled sealmasters,
Pain lore, highly motivated)

Nara Clan

CONFIRMED
(direct)

N/A

Very Low
(will participate in yours)

Uzumaki Clan

CONFIRMED
(direct)

N/A

Very Low
(no skills)

Hyūga Clan

CONFIRMED
(Motokazu)

N/A

Very Low
(no opening to compete)

Uchiha Clan

CONFIRMED
(Sasuke)

N/A

Very Low
(no skills)

Other Leaf clans

Very High
(original O'Uzu report)

Very High
(clans with consulted sealmasters),
otherwise Low

N/A

Very Low
(no opening to compete)

Orochimaru

Very Low
(asocial tendencies)

Low
(via Dr Yakushi's social connections)

Very High
(will replace yours)

If Orochimaru was aware of your rift research,
you would not be in a position to read this.

Tsunade

Low
(asocial tendencies)

Very Low
(asocial tendencies)

Low
(asocial tendencies)

Moderate
(may interfere in yours if unsatisfied)

Tsunade seems to have little interest in the world around her
in general, but this will change quickly if she learns about resurrection.

Ami

Low
(would have mentioned it)

Very High
(of course you are researching immortality)

CONFIRMED in near future

Very Low
(will participate in yours;
no opening to compete)

Will inform her after her next mission unless there is good reason not to;
we need all the help we can find.

Leaf ANBU

Very High
(Hokage,

original O'Uzu report)

???
(Hokage)

N/A

Some personally present for O'Uzu debrief.

Misc. Leaf sealmasters

CONFIRMED
(direct)

N/A

Very Low
(no opening to compete)

You sought input from them before the first research mission.

Misc. KEI ninja

Low
(KEI sealmasters)

Very Low
(no skills)

The typical sealmaster has a limited social circle,
but is attention-starved and loves to boast.

Mist

Low
(Akatsuki)

Very Low
Akatsuki observation of site)

Moderate
(Akatsuki, may encounter researchers/evidence of research)

Very High

O'Uzu lies within Mist's sphere of influence, and it is likely that Mist ninja/patrols periodically visit it.
Mist is also the best candidate if Akatsuki wish to call upon an AMITY village's resources.

Cloud

Low
(Akatsuki)

Very Low
(Akatsuki observation of site)