Oh yeah, I've been meaning to voice this opinion about Honami.

If the problem is that she is a woman, why don't we solve that by marrying her off to some guy who doesn't mind to leave all the actual business things to her? That way Honami's father might even intentionally start hoisting more of the resort responsibilities towards the next generation. No need for inelegant solutions like drugs or chakra lobotomy.

I presume because she doesn't want to be married off to "some guy". Maybe she'd like a real husband, found in her own time, not someone she doesn't even respect.

I mean, it's sure a solution, but it's not a ninja-specific solution. Honami was perfectly capable of thinking of that for herself, and if she wanted to do it and needed outside help, she could have asked for that instead of ice.
 
[] Proto Plan: An Unfortunate Leak

1: Prepare a trap room.
-Drill peepholes in the walls, then disguise said peepholes. For example, have a natural knot in a visible wooden support beam actually be a peephole. I'd say more here, but without knowing more about the furnishings and architecture of the room there isn't much I can say.
-Also have access the room next door to our trap room. Be ready and able to take down the wall with explosive seals, but don't put those seals up until J is no longer suspicious.
-A secret route into the trap room would be ideal, but I have no idea how good J is at detecting secret passages, or how hard he'll look for one.
-More ideas here would be appreciated.

2: Sabotage the rooms J and his companions are using, forcing them to move to the room we have prepared.
-If they have running water, cause a pipe to leak.
-If they don't have running water, cause the roof to fail. Blame it on magical chakra termites or something? Feel free to suggest ideas.
-Whatever we do, it must make the room absolutely uninhabitable. J's current room is well protected, and he's not going to move for anything less than a total catastrophe.
-Once the room is made uninhabitable, have Honami move them to the room we've prepared. Ideally, this new room should be the only room available at the resort, so Honami doesn't need to lie. There is a very real risk that J has good enough social dice to blow our whole operation here, so we'll have to think carefully about how much we involve Honami here.

3: Gather information.
-Where is the scroll? What are they saying to eachother? Ect...
-Pay close attention to every single trap they set. Understand any seals they put up, and prepare counter measures.


If we can pull this plan off, J and his companions are forced to move from a room they've prepared into a room we've prepared. We don't know how long we have until J's contact shows up, so I would say this needs to be done FAST. Update after this plan would be the action plan where we go on the offensive.
 
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While I agree... I fear the repercussions if this message gets to its intended recipient. I'm not sure what's in it, but I doubt it's good news for everyone involved. That's not to say I think we should return the scroll to our quest giver, but... I dunno. Maybe I'm being egocentric here, but with the kind of mission parameters Dark and Shady gave us, I fear the butterfly effect from letting this message go through.

My speculation? This is occurring in a "ninja neutral zone" with the courier being a jounin who is not identifying himself as a ninja. Missing nin have been hired to stop it. I think it's likely a negotiation where parties at either end don't dare be seen together. Highly important people in different Hidden Villages. A third party figured out the negotiation is happening and wants to stop it, as well as details (if possible) of what's going on.

Beyond that, who knows. Perhaps a revolutionary group in one village is looking for support in another village for an attempted coup. Maybe two Kages want to get one up on their peers and are plotting allying against a third village. Maybe a ninja clan is preparing to defect from one village to another. Perhaps it's an emergency message form a highly placed spy, risking breaking cover because of the urgency of the news. It's impossible to say, but I think it's probably something on that level.
 
How's bathing and stuff handled? Hazou said facilities here are better than a latrine. How much better? Is there a bathroom attached to the suit? To the floor? Something else?
Say, if they have a bathtub that's filled the traditional way (with buckets) we can have Nobby haul some water, then spill it 'accidentaly' where the boy and woman are standing, and check their chakra through that water while they are wet.

If the problem is that she is a woman, why don't we solve that by marrying her off to some guy who doesn't mind to leave all the actual business things to her? That way Honami's father might even intentionally start hoisting more of the resort responsibilities towards the next generation. No need for inelegant solutions like drugs or chakra lobotomy.
P. sure she wants the baby daddy.
I'm starting to doubt that anyone will come after her btw. The whole 'powerful ninja with amazing bloodline' thing sounds like something a ninja dude might come up with to get a lay with a civilian girl, and it worked. He probably forgot her name by now, never mind having any idea that she's pregnant. Plus a threat of ninja coming over to take away her kid would keep her silent. Otherwise, she might raise a ruckus to get him to take responsibility.

I fear the butterfly effect from letting this message go through.
We read it first, then decide. Bit early to worry about it, one way or another.
 
I presume because she doesn't want to be married off to "some guy". Maybe she'd like a real husband, found in her own time, not someone she doesn't even respect.

Well, you can't really get everything you want in your life. Controlling a big business and having a paramour in addition to your front husband (who probably has a mistress/mister of his own) doesn't sound too bad of a deal compared to always being under the heel of your own father.

Naturally it depends on Honami and what she values. That's why the initial contact plan didn't have any suggestions, I was kinda hoping Honami had something already planned.

Also, making the new husband look competent in the eyes of the father in law might not be ninja specific, but it definitely something they could do. (With a fortuitous ice delivery plan, for example)
 
First, an anonymous job for anonymous client is unlikely to affect our reputation.

Wrong. Mr. Anon works for someone important. He is an agent of a large and powerful intelligence network, one well-informed enough to know about J and the message he carries. If you want to see his employer, just glance at a map of Naruto-world, and they'll one of the nations listed on there.

We have sealing (storage scrolls). We have nearly unlimited chakra. We have medicine. Our team's talents are wasted on doing missions for shady low-paying people. We can do better.

I could argue here that our talent would be even more wasted gambling in casinos, but when it comes down to it I vote for what interests me, and the boring missions you suggested do not interest me.

While I agree... I fear the repercussions if this message gets to its intended recipient. I'm not sure what's in it, but I doubt it's good news for everyone involved. That's not to say I think we should return the scroll to our quest giver, but... I dunno. Maybe I'm being egocentric here, but with the kind of mission parameters Dark and Shady gave us, I fear the butterfly effect from letting this message go through.

Whatever the repercussions are, they won't effect a handful of missing-nin.
 
How much is "low-paying" anyway? Cause last time we did a mission we got away with 24k, which was the richest we've ever been. That money saved us a lot of trouble back then.

I'm asking because I don't recall seeing any hard numbers, and I'm sure Inoue wouldn't sell our cervices for 2 cents.

One of the first things we saw in canon was that when the danger of the mission gets rethought, the pay gets renegotiated. If we take the scroll back to our shady contact we will absolutely demand A-rank mission pay with a "and you should have told us there was a jounin" chaser before handing it over. We're not going to be chumps risking our lives for coppers.

I already discussed money a little bit here, but it seems I need to expand on it.

The economy of MfD-verse is weak and fragmented. It has a lot of consequences for us, and one of these consequences is: there is no such thing as globally-recognizable money. Each country has its own currency. Economy of each country is somewhat small. All the really interesting goods (weapons, chakra-conductive metal) are monitored and controlled.

No matter how much money we get (in local currency), it won't help us get controlled goods or finance large projects. It does not matter how much we are paid here, it will be on the scale of pocket change. Whatever the sum is, Hazou can probably win comparable sum by spending a day playing dice with hill daimyos. And even if the reward is fairly big, it won't make us noticeably closer to our global goals.

On the other hand, if we finally get our trade empire started, we will have ever-growing combination of multiple local currencies, favors, contracts with local merchants, etc. that will eventually let us get illegal goods and allow us to wield enough power to cause global changes.
I think doing missions for other people is dumb. If we want to rule the world, we should stop wasting our time and start bootstrapping our future trade empire. A contract to deliver ice is as good a start as anything.
 
So what you're saying is, any pay is low pay. But that's just not true. We need something to get us started, money or goods (or both) and spending our time on gambling and hunting for hides or whatever is not a good use of our, well, time. It's too slow. If we get even 40k for nabbing the scroll, that's enough to fund our first caravan. So we can actually get started on our trade network, instead of grinding for initial capital.
What are you going to tell people you hire, that money is meaningless? Not to them, it ain't.

Also each contry may have it's own currency, but some are clearly better than others. Pretty sure no minor country will say no to Fire ryo for example. Diversifying funds is a good thing to do anyway.
Also also, since when does Hazou play with daimyos? We've been staying away from big money casinos because we want to avoid attention. That changed? We doing a casino run? Cause I'd vote for that, but let's not pretend it doesn't carry its own dangers.

Contract to deliver ice gets us goodwill from Honami. Which is valuable in its own right, but not exactly a merchant empire building block.
 
On the other hand, if we finally get our trade empire started, we will have ever-growing combination of multiple local currencies, favors, contracts with local merchants, etc. that will eventually let us get illegal goods and allow us to wield enough power to cause global changes.
I think doing missions for other people is dumb. If we want to rule the world, we should stop wasting our time and start bootstrapping our future trade empire. A contract to deliver ice is as good a start as anything.

I like doing missions for other people because it gives clear goals with specific requirements that we work out how to accomplish with the resources at hand. That's interesting.

I dislike "build a trade empire" type stuff because it's a choice of either abstracting things away or getting bogged down in boring minutia that the whole thread will argue over, and it leaves us further away from doing exciting ninja stuff. And doing exciting ninja stuff is the only reason I'd bother with a Naruto quest in the first place.

Let's compromise and go to work for a world-conqueror like Orochimaru or the Akatsuki, become strong in their shadows, and then overthrow them in a climatic fight! That leads to conquering the world and exciting ninja stuff.
 
You know there is no real reason we have to sell ice to just Honami. I mean she proposed the idea to use first, but we could become the main suppler in the the land of hot spring. We have an unknown jutsu for changing temperature we can make ice easier than anyone else.

Also I trust the QMs to make any quest path interesting.
 
We can make ice, but we can't make it stay. EM-assisted ice will melt once we stop supporting it with chakra. Because magic.
It will stay just as well as normal ice. This has been cleared up multiple times. We use elemental control turn water to ice, seal it, deliver it, repeat. Once we have fulfilled demand for the time being we find something else.
 
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I'm sure we can combine not boring and not dead somehow.
I am not sure why you are arguing against the ice plan then. :???:

We can deliver ice to all the resorts make money and contacts. Then when demand it filled we will know exactly what to buy for a caravan from the info we have gleaned from said contacts and other infiltration we will doing on the side. It will be much like this scroll quest, but we will be working for ourself. Which means more profit and less pawn.
 
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So what you're saying is, any pay is low pay. But that's just not true. We need something to get us started, money or goods (or both) and spending our time on gambling and hunting for hides or whatever is not a good use of our, well, time. It's too slow. If we get even 40k for nabbing the scroll, that's enough to fund our first caravan. So we can actually get started on our trade network, instead of grinding for initial capital.
What are you going to tell people you hire, that money is meaningless? Not to them, it ain't.
Actually, I think that missions I offered are all strictly superior to scroll-hunting in terms of risk/reward and time spent/money earned.

Also also, since when does Hazou play with daimyos? We've been staying away from big money casinos because we want to avoid attention. That changed? We doing a casino run? Cause I'd vote for that, but let's not pretend it doesn't carry its own dangers.
There are wealthy clients in the resort. There are other resorts nearby, also with wealthy clients. Gambling with them shouldn't be that difficult in the relaxing atmosphere of luxury hot spring resort, no?

I like doing missions for other people because it gives clear goals with specific requirements that we work out how to accomplish with the resources at hand. That's interesting.
I don't find being someone's pawn (possibly, sacrificial one) super interesting, to be honest. I would rather avoid it if at all possible.

Let's compromise and go to work for a world-conqueror like Orochimaru or the Akatsuki, become strong in their shadows, and then overthrow them in a climatic fight! That leads to conquering the world and exciting ninja stuff.
Orochimaru is extremely fond of sacrificing pawn, usually with body horror and mutilation among the way. I think we should basically never approach him ever.

You know there is no real reason we have to sell ice to just Honami. I mean she proposed the idea to use first, but we could become the main suppler in the the land of hot spring. We have an unknown jutsu for changing temperature we can make ice easier than anyone else.
I wholeheartedly support founding an ice delivery service as a first step of creating our trade empire.
 
On the topic of services that hot springs need, we could research and sell that produce light seal. Much better than smokey, flickering oil lamps. As they have genin wandering around anyway, one of their jobs could be to go around refreshing them.
 
I am not sure why you are arguing against the ice plan then. :???:
I am not??? I like the ice delivery plan, as long as Honami is first in our consideration.
But I don't want to drop everything we're doing right now, mostly because I don't believe we're in mortal danger, and because I consider risks worth the profit, where profit is mainly experience in various forms, with some other stuff on the side.

There are wealthy clients in the resort. There are other resorts nearby, also with wealthy clients. Gambling with them shouldn't be that difficult in the relaxing atmosphere of luxury hot spring resort, no?
Right. Because our last interaction with a wealthy lord "in the relaxing atmosphere of luxury hot spring resort" went so well.
 
We already know what Honami values. She values family over other things. She as much as told us with her having us sware on our mother's name.
 
As for the ice delivery plan, how are we going to scale and franchise it?
How do we protect it? What is our moat?

It's fine that we're going to do one-off delivery for Honami, but what do we do from there?

What if someone invent an air conditioning machine? How do we get our grubby hand on it?
 
Alright I've finally managed a system to use my phone as an internet connection, albeit temporarily. So the good news is:

  • I
    • Have
      • A
        • Keyboard
          • Again
The bad news is it uses mobile data, which I don't have a ton of and have to use primarily for responsible adult things, like using it as for the GPS feature on said phone. This message is partially a test to see how much data sending a message to SV takes (as compared to using it on mobile) so I can plan how to most effectively use my limited data without going into overage fees. It shouldn't be too much, but I did manage to get within <20 Mb of my data limit last month, so every bit (or byte, hehe) helps.

In the meantime I can finally type faster than 10 wpm (stupid fat thumbs and tiny screen) so contributing to this thread in bulk like I used to should be much, much easier.

In other words:

I AM BACK BABY!

MWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:3
 
Along with the "Mari Hair Ruffle", "Constant Vigilance", and "WWDTTY" buttons, posts on this thread also need a "Please take your meds, I'm worried about you" button. The "Hugs" button just isn't enough.

Edit: We could use this as an emote though, if that helps.

 
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As for the ice delivery plan, how are we going to scale and franchise it?
How do we protect it? What is our moat?

It's fine that we're going to do one-off delivery for Honami, but what do we do from there?

A safe border crossing point so that we can fetch ice without risk.

That's the actual thing that we could develop and which would be valuable. Instead of running for the border and hoping for the best like we've been doing, we could find some way through that's reliably safe and can be used repeatedly.

In fact, that would be a smart thing to do for every border we can. Border crossings are the point at which we're in the most danger. Having a reliable, low-risk way to get across borders would be to our benefit in virtually any plan or endeavor we pursue from this point forward. Put your collective genius to work on that!

Whether it be a carefully dug tunnel or some sealing trick or set of well-established false identities that can survive scrutiny by bordr guards, we ought to come up with something.
 
So is this a longterm ice-fetching plan? Because I see no reason to do it short-term due to Elemental Mastery bullshit, border crossings seem unnecessarily risky relative to just making it ourselves, and the only loss we suffer is not having more info on how ice is transported. Which is solved by simply finding and, uh, *asking* ice merchants.
 
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