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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Oneiros said:
Just the ridiculous and unrealistic levels of success that Ami has. She just goes from victory to victory with minutes of time and no evidence existing. She's back to complete sue territory. We are some of her closest allies and we never get a whiff of this. Hazou effectively can't do anything without tons of barriers being thrown up where Ami never struggles. With such a narratively and unrealistic character existing in the world killing her is the only way to be safe
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Jōnin are sues per default, what with being paragons of their specialisations. Furthermore, she in particular owns a major nation and has the confidence of another. Offering the League of Nations to a world of people who are scared of a new giant world war they'll need to die in and really don't want it to happen is a godsend for everyone involved. I think it's fair that she can do that. And it's not like we can kill her. Oh sure we might get lucky and succeed but we won't get away with it.
 
Oneiros said:
Just the ridiculous and unrealistic levels of success that Ami has. She just goes from victory to victory with minutes of time and no evidence existing. She's back to complete sue territory. We are some of her closest allies and we never get a whiff of this. Hazou effectively can't do anything without tons of barriers being thrown up where Ami never struggles. With such a narratively and unrealistic character existing in the world killing her is the only way to be safe
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Look, Ami exists to push the plot into new directions to keep things fresh for the QMs and introduce new plotlines and challenge types. She's a supergenius social-spec ninja who's as crazy as a bag of cats, is totally unpredictable, loves to disrupt expectations & break the status quo, and has plans within plans whose hints we don't plot IC. Every possible objection to her pulling crazy shit has been addressed in-story already, everyone's expectations have been calibrated properly to avoid SoD breaking, and your only way to "fix" this it to talk the QMs into retconning Ami out of existence. The QMs hate big retcons and seem to love writing Ami (and not only because she's a key part of the real main character's Keiko's plotline) so I suggest you give up this foolish dream.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Personally I don't find this unrealistic or unreasonable, just the best-possible-presentation of a successful social spec with innovative ideas. At the end of the day we don't even know if AMITY is going to work or not, and if it does Ami is going to be far from the only person putting in legwork, even if she takes credit for it all.
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Personally this specifically is what irks me most about Ami as a character and makes me view her as a bit of a sue, that being that she seemingly just gets to ignore the downsides of the Frozen Skein while retaining all of the upsides.

Besides which I personally feel like the QM's first went wrong with her character when they made Ami live up to the hype Keiko gave her, even when it was thorougly established that Keiko is a bit of a unrealiable narrator.
 
Wait a minute... that's unrelated to the last update but it just hit me that the Frozen Skein doesn't consume chakra to dive into, does it?
Other bloodlines have passive/non-chakra-consuming effects (the Iron Nerve's movement library for instance), but this gives me the creeps. There's something big and paranormal and potentially nefarious with secret lore leaking from everywhere and contacting it doesn't require the one way we know of doing majyyks
 
Rock: *uses WMDs on AMITY* Stealing research methods from the Goketsu and applying them to jutsu development was a great move.

Edit: @Lysbeth Succubus
Frozen Skein: everyone call collects it, that's why he has such a bleak outlook
 
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cog-nito said:
she seemingly just gets to ignore the downsides of the Frozen Skein while retaining all of the upsides.
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I wouldn't say none of the downsides. She's pretty messed up in innovative and interesting ways, most probably because of it:
Velorien said:
"Can't stop moving. Fact. Everything falls apart. Need constant momentum. Inside and outside. You know that. More ambitions. More ideas. More challenge. Motion is control. Stasis is Mori. Life too short. Ninja life too short. Win and move on. Five villages. Minors. Rest of world. Domination? Transformation? Destruction? Lying about everything? You guess."
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Lord Marshal said:
So, counter-speech it is? It won't be said that the hivemind backs down from a challenge, right?
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I don't want to try and upstage AMITY, it's a genuinely great accomplishment that Hazou supports more than anyone else in the room.

That said, I very much like the vibe of playing the friendly rival and going "I knew you were planning something fantastic, Ami, and I couldn't just sit there and let you outdo me."
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
I don't want to try and upstage AMITY, it's a genuinely great accomplishment that Hazou supports more than anyone else in the room.

That said, I very much like the vibe of playing the friendly rival and going "I knew you were planning something fantastic, Ami, and I couldn't just sit there and let you outdo me."
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My idea would be that type of interaction too, not only because it would help AMITY, but because i feel Ami would truly enjoy it.
 
Lysbeth Succubus said:
[><] Upstage AMITY by unsealing a bottle of saké, drinking it all in one gulp, throwing it at Hagoromo's face, slamming our hands on the table and yelling "WELL *I* KILLED AAAA FUKKEN DRAGOOOON"
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HAGOROMO: Did you just assault me? This means clan war!

HAZŌ: I killed aaaa fukken Dragoooon. Bring it on.

AMI: I declare world peace and you immediately manage to start the one kind of war it doesn't cover? I knew there was a reason you were my rival.

ASUMA: [facepalms in the background]
 
Making AMITY Better (And Ourselves Rich And Powerful)

We should try and seal as many trade deals with as many clans in different villages as possible. And get as many summoners to join the summoner trade network as possible. Massive amounts of trade between villages will cement this alliance and take it from something that could fall apart any second to something that will live on and truly become the basis for how geopolitics is done.

AMITY as it is doesn't really have much to facilitate negotiations between villages. If one village is mad at another for doing something, and the other doesn't want to stop, negotiation without war can only get them so far. Trade, and sanctions/tariffs, will naturally fill in that gap. If things go well, we'll be able to negotiate with other villages by using trade as leverage, just like irl sanctions are being used against Russia. And the Gōketsu can make sure it gets to that point by establishing as many trade deals as possible, as fast as possible.

Being the major Leaf hub for trade with other villages will also give us lots of money and political power. Trade with every village will boost the Gōketsu's income back into 'not quite able to buy a small country' range, for one thing, and quite possibly into the 'Ooh, Grass is looking pretty cheap' range. And whenever Asuma wants to sanction another village or increase tariffs against one to increase pressure on them? Guess who he'll have to negotiate with first. That will give us enormous political power, on the level that Tsunade or Naruto hold right now. After all, if AMITY works then the equivalent of war won't be waged by S rankers, it will be waged through trade deals and tariffs. That makes the International Trade clan the most powerful people in the village.

With that kind of power, we could negotiate for scrolls, do as much uplift as we want, make sure that Akane et al won't need to go on dangerous missions, focus on killing dragons, and have plenty of time to FOOM without worrying about being killboxed or something. And then we can expand. This only covers the villages in our general section of the EN. Someone is going to need to go to Bear and get them to join. Who knows what's beyond the EN? This will give us the breathing room to go exploring, and punch new and interesting things!
 
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Sentient Tree said:
Making AMITY Better (And Ourselves Rich And Powerful)

We should try and seal as many trade deals with as many clans in different villages as possible. And get as many summoners to join the summoner trade network as possible. Massive amounts of trade between villages will cement this alliance and take it from something that could fall apart any second to something that will live on and truly become the basis for how geopolitics is done.

AMITY as it is doesn't really have much to facilitate negotiations between villages. If one village is mad at another for doing something, and the other doesn't want to stop, negotiation without war can only get them so far. Trade, and sanctions/tariffs, will naturally fill in that gap. If things go well, we'll be able to negotiate with other villages by using trade as leverage, just like irl sanctions are being used against Russia. And the Gōketsu can make sure it gets to that point by establishing as many trade deals as possible, as fast as possible.

Being the major Leaf hub for trade with other villages will also give us lots of money and political power. Trade with every village will boost the Gōketsu's income back into 'not quite able to buy a small country' range, for one thing, and quite possibly into the 'Ooh, Grass is looking pretty cheap' range. And whenever Asuma wants to sanction another village or increase tariffs against one to increase pressure on them? Guess who he'll have to negotiate with first. That will give us enormous political power, on the level that Tsunade or Naruto hold right now. After all, if AMITY works then the equivalent of war won't be waged by S rankers, it will be waged through trade deals and tariffs. That makes the International Trade clan the most powerful people in the village.

With that kind of power, we could negotiate for scrolls, do as much uplift as we want, make sure that Akane et al won't need to go on dangerous missions, focus on killing dragons, and have plenty of time to FOOM without worrying about being killboxed or something. And then we can expand. This only covers the villages in our general section of the EN. Someone is going to need to go to Bear and get them to join. Who knows what's beyond the EN? This will give us the breathing room to go exploring, and punch new and interesting things!
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GRANDMASTER F: Hello again, Hazou.

ASUMA: What.
 
Sentient Tree said:
Making AMITY Better (And Ourselves Rich And Powerful)

We should try and seal as many trade deals with as many clans in different villages as possible. And get as many summoners to join the summoner trade network as possible. Massive amounts of trade between villages will cement this alliance and take it from something that could fall apart any second to something that will live on and truly become the basis for how geopolitics is done.

AMITY as it is doesn't really have much to facilitate negotiations between villages. If one village is mad at another for doing something, and the other doesn't want to stop, negotiation without war can only get them so far. Trade, and sanctions/tariffs, will naturally fill in that gap. If things go well, we'll be able to negotiate with other villages by using trade as leverage, just like irl sanctions are being used against Russia. And the Gōketsu can make sure it gets to that point by establishing as many trade deals as possible, as fast as possible.

Being the major Leaf hub for trade with other villages will also give us lots of money and political power. Trade with every village will boost the Gōketsu's income back into 'not quite able to buy a small country' range, for one thing, and quite possibly into the 'Ooh, Grass is looking pretty cheap' range. And whenever Asuma wants to sanction another village or increase tariffs against one to increase pressure on them? Guess who he'll have to negotiate with first. That will give us enormous political power, on the level that Tsunade or Naruto hold right now. After all, if AMITY works then the equivalent of war won't be waged by S rankers, it will be waged through trade deals and tariffs. That makes the International Trade clan the most powerful people in the village.

With that kind of power, we could negotiate for scrolls, do as much uplift as we want, make sure that Akane et al won't need to go on dangerous missions, focus on killing dragons, and have plenty of time to FOOM without worrying about being killboxed or something. And then we can expand. This only covers the villages in our general section of the EN. Someone is going to need to go to Bear and get them to join. Who knows what's beyond the EN? This will give us the breathing room to go exploring, and punch new and interesting things!
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marked for economics, but whit political tension.
Let's forward the idea at Mari, she knows what people would want.
 
Eisenhelm said:
Let's forward the idea at Mari, she knows what people would want.
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ASUMA: Seriously, Mari? I would expect this from Anko, but you?

Mari: I know what the people want!

ASUMA: I can't even mention the things you did in the presence of young people aged under thirty-five, how is that what the people want?

TSUCHIKAGE: We would like to stop waging war if you just let her go on
 
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