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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Would it be worth discussing the skyslicer mission with Shikamaru to see if he has thoughts on it? Could put in "discuss the current skyslicer mission plan" and link my post into one of the Shika bullet points without exceeding wordcount. He's supposed to be a tactical genius so it might be worth seeing what he has to say.
 
Paperclipped said:
Not a ton of time this week, looks good to me. However, @Raichu1972 's vote shows up before @Insert 's. Worth noting?
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This happened to me, once. I went back and edited a previous post of mine, adding a vote for a plan that had been posted after that edited post (IIRC, I was trying not to clog the thread with too many votes). This might the case, here. If so, it can be resolved by moving the vote to a later post, or deleting the edited vote, and posting the vote as a new post in the thread.
 
ProperAttorney said:
A few concerns were brought up when the Air Tunnel seals were proposed.

  1. But the air it has to store on the way down is way too much! It won't be able to fit!

    Our best measuring stick for storing a gas is Implosion Seals. With a radius of 1-20 m, an Implosion Seal is capable of storing (V = (4/3)πr^3) between 4.2 m^3 and 33510 m^3 of atmosphere pressure air. We'll use 33510 m^3 as our absolute maximum and aim to be well below it.

    Okay, so now we have our maximum volume to store. We are currently operating under the premise that we are staying within the troposphere, so we'll use 12 km as our maximum operating height. By dividing 33510 m^3 by 12000 m, we get 2.8 m^2. So long as no one seal has an absorption area of 2.8 m^2 when dropped from <=12 km, they won't exceed our observed maximum air storage of 33510 m^3.

  2. Okay, so it's probably not too MUCH air, but it's going to have to absorb it too quickly! It won't be able to keep up!

    For this one, we're going to have to get into the actual payload that is being dropped. The current plan is to use Hazo's Earthshaping jutsu at maximum volume (16 m^3) in order to merge sealed chunks of granite 12 km above the ground into a rectangular prism. Granite has a density of 2700 kg/m^3, so 16 m^3 of it will have a mass of 43,200 kg and be 1.67 x 1.67 x 5.74 meters.

    When you don't have to worry about air resistance, you get a neat equation for finding the velocity of a free falling object after it falls d distance. (v = sqrt(2gd) ) We are, perhaps foolishly, assuming that gravity is 9.81 m/s^2. This means that after falling for 12 km, the object has a velocity of 485 m/s.

    We calculated that maximum area of our seal can be 2.8 m^2, the current size of the bottom of our projectile. Since this is the absolute maximum, let's split it into 4, just to be on the safe side. This means that each seal will cover an area of 0.7 m^2. When traveling at the maximum velocity, 485 m/s, that seal would have to absorb 340 m^3/s. This is orders of magnitude less than a 20 m Implosion Seal's instantaneous storage of 33510 m^3.

  3. Okay, fine. It can store enough air and it can store it fast enough. How much damage does it do?

    ....That's a hard one. We have a mass and final velocity, so we can calculate the kinetic energy in the payload. (E = (1/2)mv^2 ) Our 43,200 kg payload traveling at 485 m/s will have 5.08e+9 Joules of kinetic energy. Is that sufficient to penetrate or damage Hidden Rock's underground areas? Only time will tell. If it requires additional energy, we can attempt to scale even higher in the atmosphere with the proper precautions.
Air density is much lower at high altitude, so the total amount of air absorbed by the seals is actually lower than calculated. This means that the area covered by one could theoretically be larger, though there are few benefits to actually doing so.
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faflec said:
Insert seriously what the fuck are these things
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Here are the versions of this as I see it.
  1. Air Tunnels to drop large payloads without air resistance, allowing the payload to exceed terminal velocity.
  2. Version 2 would include a continuous Rocket Boots seal as propulsion.
  3. Version 3 and beyond would include ARS/Some sort of remote seal to activate smaller propulsion seals in order to steer the thing.
  4. Version 4 would have to include some way to get information back to the command center in order to steer from a distance, at which point if basically becomes an ICBM.
 
Paperclipped said:
[X] Action Plan: In Pursuit of Uncaps for Resolve, Socials, and Calligraphy
Word Count: 298
  • Check with Mari.
  • Kumokogo.
    • Explain the skyslicer plan.
      • In short, fly Dragons into immovable wire/silk to shred them.
      • Far from GS – for oath-compatibility and seal/jutsu functionality.
    • Ask permission to train Hornets in relevant flight maneuvers
    • To better model that, observe the Dragons. (Resolve uncap attempt)
      • Only get close alone since Summons can't reverse summon safely, but take along any Arachnids or Dogs that are willing to watch from afar. Emphasize the dangers.
      • Do as much as you can to describe them and their flight patterns.
        • Write down descriptions.
        • Draw images.
      • Pay attention to their mental attack. How can you resist it?
        • Akane?
        • Ino?
        • Other members of Team Uplift?
        • The idea of Uplift itself?
        • Clan Gouketsu?
        • Cannai?
        • Hana?
      • Unsummon once physically or psychically dangerous.
  • Recruiting a tracker:
    • (offscreen, maybe?) Explain the parameters of the Otter Scroll mission to Cannai. Does he know any trackers skilled enough to help find the scroll? Ask him to connect us.
    • To Cannai's candidate (if any), bring a no-strings-attached gift: those things which Dogs in the trade network have found the most valuable.
    • Explain our mission in dramatic style: (Socials uncap attempt)
      • Does the tracker want to find an ancient treasure lost before modern memory?
      • Do they want to alter the fate of another summon clan?
      • Do they want to help end the threat of the Dragons? (if Dogs know about them – ask Cannai)
  • Training Harumitsu:
    • Demonstrate Hazou's research process to Harumitsu, with Kagome's safety precautions. (Calligraphy/Sealing uncap attempt)
    • Sealing Project: Air Tunneling.
      • Hazou knows that air slows him when he sprints.
      • Idea: Tunneler's Friend that stores faster, so air doesn't slow a falling object.
    • Sanity check with Kagome.
    • Rolls:
      • Use maximum amount of prep days for bonus.
      • Only scribe/infuse once Consequences expire.
  • (offscreen) Misc.
    • Remake GS replica once healed.



This plan has a new Dragons scene to try to get a Resolve uncap (which is the most immediate thing for Hazou), a Calligraphy uncap (which is next), and also socials because why not (though I mostly want the tracker for the Scroll Hunt). I recycled the tracker scene from my plan last Sunday, and the seal research scene from the Sunday before that.
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faflec said:
What is an Air Tunnel? Is it an original seal, xor a modified implosion seal, xor something else???
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A Tunneler's Friend variant.
 
I expect our proposing ways to destroy Rock will get us Shikasplained since all of the council talked Asuma down from it. Hopefully I'm wrong though and we can finally cut loose
 
I thought, after doing the math on the suborbital strikes, we decided that it wouldn't even double the speed (since we haven't even gotten that close to terminal velocity when dropped from 12km) so it's not worth the research time.

I think there was definitely some work to do on the idea before it was story-ready, so I'd feel happier cutting that from the plan.

I remember a good bit of discussion happening somewhere around this post
 
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ProperAttorney said:
Bingo. The math is a few posts higher up.

Edit: Also on the sides to avoid target drift.
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ProperAttorney said:
But the air it has to store on the way down is way too much! It won't be able to fit!

Our best measuring stick for storing a gas is Implosion Seals. With a radius of 1-20 m, an Implosion Seal is capable of storing (V = (4/3)πr^3) between 4.2 m^3 and 33510 m^3 of atmosphere pressure air. We'll use 33510 m^3 as our absolute maximum and aim to be well below it.

Okay, so now we have our maximum volume to store. We are currently operating under the premise that we are staying within the troposphere, so we'll use 12 km as our maximum operating height. By dividing 33510 m^3 by 12000 m, we get 2.8 m^2. So long as no one seal has an absorption area of 2.8 m^2 when dropped from <=12 km, they won't exceed our observed maximum air storage of 33510 m^3.
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Our best measuring stick for storing a gas is Tunneler's Friend, which is the seal we're basing this off of.
eaglejarl said:
I know we still have questions we need to answer, but I recalled seeing this and wanted to note that, even before The Awesome New System was a sparkle in anyone's eye, we had shifted the Tunneler's Friend from 300 minutes of air to 300 METs, as per a suggestion from the playerbase. Round costs up to the nearest integer.
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300 METs
Velorien said:
Tunneller's Friend
Accumulates up to 300 air points over the course of an hour in Mode A. Releases up to 300 air points in Mode B. One person at rest uses up 1 air point per minute. Light exercise (e.g. walking) uses up 5 air points per minute. Moderate exercise (e.g. hiking) uses up 20. Combat uses up 50.
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5 air points (or METs) per minute is not a fast rate of absorption, and I remain unconvinced that the design can work.
 
eaglejarl said:
obstreperous
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This is an awesome word. Bravo. Do you deliberately search these out or do you just have a long list of words in your head you are itching to use?
eaglejarl said:
Sealing was simple—at least, once you had rammed your brain into the Out a couple of times and come back with secrets torn from the deepest essence of the cosmos.
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Heh. I would love to hear Hazou say this to Kagome, Jiraiya, or Harumitsu. Or perhaps all 3 at once
eaglejarl said:
So. Given all that, why the fuck could Hazō not figure out how to make a seal out of stone?!
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As others have noted, it seems like the problem (at least, the reason he is struggling to grasp the concepts) isn't Hazou's sealing expertise, it's his Earth Jutsu expertise. I'm not sure when we will get a chance to improve his connection with his element but I'm excited to see what happens when he does.
eaglejarl said:
Of course he knew why it wasn't working. The stone was too diffuse, too impure. It needed to be denser and made of only one material.
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Oh, well I guess I take back the idea that he is struggling to grasp the concepts lmao

This makes me curious how patchwork-paper would work for a seal... presumably it would do nothing, much like this stone seal isn't. Does this also mean Hazou at least theoretically could infuse a 3D seal? Is it at all similar to the process of infusing a 2D seal just with more chakra?
eaglejarl said:
His metaphysical fingers were too fat, his metaphysical eyes too blurry. They had improved as he practiced with the jutsu—when he first learned it he had barely been able to tell anything about the internals of the material whereas now it was as though he was looking through a thick gauze blindfold.
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"YOU NEED TO LEVEL THIS JUTSU"
Hmm, what could it mean?
eaglejarl said:
Safely shut down a seal the size of a mountain that used completely unfamiliar principles and contained more chakra than could be imagined?
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Huh, this makes me imagine us setting up giant 3D seals specifically to serve as batteries, similar to the Koi pond. When we have surplus days we can fill up our chakra wells. We must make the chakrapunk future happen!
eaglejarl said:
recalcitrant
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Another excellent and underutilized word! (though I actually recognize this one)
 
faflec said:
Our best measuring stick for storing a gas is Tunneler's Friend, which is the seal we're basing this off of.

300 METs

5 air points (or METs) per minute is not a fast rate of absorption, and I remain unconvinced that the design can work.
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Implosion seals are focused on sealing as much air as quickly as possible. TF seal a bit and release it slowly over time. I imagine the input and output rate of TF are the same to lower complexity, and that the storage size is small for the same reason.

The TN of this wasn't so impossibly high that Hazo rejected the idea out of hand. It's up to the DMs to decide how possible or not this is. Personally, "Seal the air that touches this surface" doesn't seem like it streches the bounds of credulity when compared with what some of the other seals we use do (5BS making things impervious, etc).
 
ProperAttorney said:
Implosion seals are focused on sealing as much air as quickly as possible. TF seal a bit and release it slowly over time. I imagine the input and output rate of TF are the same to lower complexity, and that the storage size is small for the same reason.

The TN of this wasn't so impossibly high that Hazo rejected the idea out of hand. It's up to the DMs to decide how possible or not this is. Personally, "Seal the air that touches this surface" doesn't seem like it streches the bounds of credulity when compared with what some of the other seals we use do (5BS making things impervious, etc).
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Sorry, my concern was poorly written; I'm concerned with how much the modified Tunneler's Friends can store, not so much the rate. Apologies.
 
faflec said:
Sorry, my concern was poorly written; I'm concerned with how much the modified Tunneler's Friends can store, not so much the rate. Apologies.
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Ah. Further in that math post I state that using multiple Air Tunnel Seals on the bottom surface is the safer option. Less than 1/4 what an implosion seal can store seems reasonable to me. Worst case scenario, we place even more AT seals to continue sealing the air once the outermost ones fills up.
 
ProperAttorney said:
Ah. Further in that math post I state that using multiple Air Tunnel Seals on the bottom surface is the safer option. Less than 1/4 what an implosion seal can store seems reasonable to me. Worst case scenario, we place even more AT seals to continue sealing the air once the outermost ones fills up.
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...how are you going to activate the other seals?
 
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