Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- United States
From what I can tell:
Oneiros makes plan involving trying to convince the dog lovers to act as emissaries to the Pangolins, Cannai (in an act that is now retconned) yells at Hazou and banishes him for an indeterminable amount of time, some people (not naming names; you can read it yourself if you care enough) blame Oneiros and say they'll never vote a plan for them again and essentially no longer trust them as a planmaker. Oneiros then asks for a self ban because of the whole situation. I wasn't around for it while it was happening but in hindsight it was a ridiculous amount of dogpiling for how much the Hivemind as a whole gets into bullshit social shenanigans.
Not acceptable.
So, I go off on my own self-imposed ban and everything immediately goes to hell. Situation normal, all fucked up.
Give me a place to start reading because this is beyond unacceptable and I want to start taking down names. The vote means that it was a collective decision and scapegoating an individual victim for the results of a collective decision is something which needs to be excruciatingly punished.
Give me names. If I have to dig them out myself I'll make them pay thrice-fold in blood for my time.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Stand down, Lailoken. The situation is over, Oneiros has been reassured and supported by multiple people, and multiple people have already stated that the dogpiling was inappropriate. Your vigilante crusade will do nothing except cause new problems.
Grrrr... Are you absolutely sure that the situation doesn't call for an angry charging rhinoceros?
Fine. Standing down. I still want names, though. I don't use my vote for much, but I'll happily spend it to negate the votes of bullies and I expect there are a lot of the community who would sign on to the anti-bullying brigade and promise to expend their votes ensuring that the assholes responsible never get another chance to affect events and are effectively smothered anytime they try to mouth up.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
This will just get you banned. Vote negating is against SV policies.
As I like to say whenever somebody references the French Constitution, "I don't have time to subscribe to another periodical." I was here in the early days when the site reached existence due to promises which have all since been fundamentally betrayed. I don't care whatever the latest self-serving version the rules say. They're all self-serving lies to be changed on a whim of those in power while they try to cultivate the illusion of inclusionism.
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- Location
- Temporally? Now.
Specifics?
Oh no. I might not be able to vote. Truly, the terror shakes me to my very marrow.
Let's see. It was founded on a previous site's improper approach to disciplining a moderator by promising that bandwidth wasn't being purchased for the sheer fun of it but instead to provide a community of collaborators who each contribute into creating something worth hosting in the first place by promising that that could never happen because there was a process in place for the community to be involved in deciding the site rules. Except, wait, that moderator had to resign over exactly the same behavior of abusing their authority (this was after they outright called me a pedophile in a public forum). Also, suddenly the council sign off makes changing the rules for everybody okay despite that explicitly not being their job and who the hell elects jurists in the first place? That's fine, we'll just make a new rule that lets us pack the court with our own choices who will undoubtedly be neutral. Y'know what? That's not enough. Let's just say that we're free to ignore everybody else's opinion any time it happens to disagree with ours. All the while let's make everybody sign a contract swearing a permanent license for anything published because that's a thing people do over things of no value.
I could go on, but I suspect the gist has come across.
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
What? What does this mean?
Edit: And which mechanisms allow for Council packing? Last time people were added it was democratically, no?
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Read the fine details. The site automatically gets a permanent license to use anything published on it however the owners wish.
They never bothered to use them, because they skipped straight to "fuck everybody who disagrees with me I am God muhahaha", but they did declare that they were implementing a right to insert representatives of their choosing on the council and anybody who disagrees was cordially invited to go fuck themselves or appeal to the council, which was packed with members of their choosing.
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- Location
- how about no
Covid sucks, I'm alive, be vaccinated plus boosted and you too can survive this holiday season, and wtf thread don't internet-lynch people for making a mistake (I'm aware it's resolved now but it still needs to be said otherwise silence is damning).
What exactly are we optimizing for currently? Kei seems snippy as she is wont to do whenever she becomes the center of attention so... can we leave her well enough alone? In fact, why not lean into Kei's decision to have Mari and her be strangers? Let the two of them have time apart so old grudges can die as they act as total strangers to one another. We can ask Kei if she wants Ami to devote her older sister energies towards ensuring Mari and Kei do not come into contact with one another so Kei and Mari can at least move on from animosity towards neutrality. Ami would be occupied, Leaf would not burn because of Kei and Mari's quarrel, and we can move on from inner team drama to winning the world war and sealing the dragons definitively.
Given enough time (multiple in-game months minimum) if both of them reminisce fondly over the good ole days we can broach the topic of reunification with each separately. It's clear now that there are no short term, instant fixes for this problem so we might as well respect both Kei and Mari's agency as much as we can to let them decide their own fates.
Before they completely go their separate ways, I'd like to have Hazou encourage Kei and Mari to write letters to one another to be opened in case of the deaths of either. Such letters should be written in such a way that if reconciliation cannot occur due to one of them dying the surviving reader can gain some closure in the event that she would have wanted to mend their relationship in a healthy, familiar manner. The act of writing the letters will give them some sense of finality to the current negative airs between them but it can also spark an idea of hope that one day these current feelings and their just causes might not be a concern anymore and that reconciliation is possible.
People, real and fictional, need to learn from their own mistakes and sometimes that means letting them choose for themselves even when one suspects (it's never certain beforehand) that they will choose poorly. Mitigating the extent of the consequences so that no permanent injuries occur is laudable, but overriding a person's agency is not. Honest failure is a learning opportunity for everyone and should never be considered a crime.
What exactly are we optimizing for currently? Kei seems snippy as she is wont to do whenever she becomes the center of attention so... can we leave her well enough alone? In fact, why not lean into Kei's decision to have Mari and her be strangers? Let the two of them have time apart so old grudges can die as they act as total strangers to one another. We can ask Kei if she wants Ami to devote her older sister energies towards ensuring Mari and Kei do not come into contact with one another so Kei and Mari can at least move on from animosity towards neutrality. Ami would be occupied, Leaf would not burn because of Kei and Mari's quarrel, and we can move on from inner team drama to winning the world war and sealing the dragons definitively.
Given enough time (multiple in-game months minimum) if both of them reminisce fondly over the good ole days we can broach the topic of reunification with each separately. It's clear now that there are no short term, instant fixes for this problem so we might as well respect both Kei and Mari's agency as much as we can to let them decide their own fates.
Before they completely go their separate ways, I'd like to have Hazou encourage Kei and Mari to write letters to one another to be opened in case of the deaths of either. Such letters should be written in such a way that if reconciliation cannot occur due to one of them dying the surviving reader can gain some closure in the event that she would have wanted to mend their relationship in a healthy, familiar manner. The act of writing the letters will give them some sense of finality to the current negative airs between them but it can also spark an idea of hope that one day these current feelings and their just causes might not be a concern anymore and that reconciliation is possible.
People, real and fictional, need to learn from their own mistakes and sometimes that means letting them choose for themselves even when one suspects (it's never certain beforehand) that they will choose poorly. Mitigating the extent of the consequences so that no permanent injuries occur is laudable, but overriding a person's agency is not. Honest failure is a learning opportunity for everyone and should never be considered a crime.
- Location
- how about no
If this is still going on (reading through QM alerts as fast as possible):
[X] (GS) Tell Asuma, then tell the Leaf sealmasters\
Following the chain of command is important. We just learned that lesson from Cannai that we should not work around our leaders but with them. We don't have direct authority over all of the seal masters so it's best to defer to Asuma's judgment to avoid more potential treason accusations.
[X] (GS) Tell Asuma, then tell the Leaf sealmasters\
Following the chain of command is important. We just learned that lesson from Cannai that we should not work around our leaders but with them. We don't have direct authority over all of the seal masters so it's best to defer to Asuma's judgment to avoid more potential treason accusations.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Nah, nah. We just got over it, the door-in-the-face approach doesn't work! You gotta tell it as a narrative with a just resolution first, switch to the pragmatics of why vigilantism is a bad idea, then spin the outcome as a minimally negative one and reframe the "bullies" as reasonable if somewhat misguided individuals!
(Sorry Lailoken, don't intend to mock you, but this is really uncannily similar.)
(Sorry Lailoken, don't intend to mock you, but this is really uncannily similar.)
How the hell am I being silent? I only just learned of this atrocity and I'm barely keeping it under a roar of furious rage by explicit GM request.
I trust you enough that your observation was more insightful than malevolent. I'll get around to researching it for insight when I have another spare moment.
- Location
- how about no
On the contrary, I also wanted to throw my 2 cents in that such previous behavior is unacceptable. I didn't want to gloss over it and thereby implicitly condone it but I also wanted to appease the same QM request not to harp on it too much. To reiterate: I do not want to be silent about it either.
Does that clarify things? Maybe my attempt at a compromise between those goals was stretched too thin...
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes.
Which part of "stand down" was unclear? If you start taking it upon yourself to vote-cancel then the whole issue gets perpetuated.
If you seriously can't move on from this then read through the entire thread starting from the update in order to generate the list of names you think appropriate, then engage with those people over DM. Please keep the drama out of this thread, and that includes vote cancelling.
Quotes, please, or let it go. I suspect what you're referring to is the standard "we have the right to publish the content" that every website needs to include because the act of rendering a web page is an act of publishing.
Yikes! Breakthrough case, I'm guessing? Sorry that happened to you. I hope it was a "sick and miserable in bed" thing and not an "on a ventilator" thing?
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Random and off topic, I know, but Hazou should spend more time with Harumitsu. He's a good kid, whose only sin is that of wanting to help his mother. Sure, he has a shit family, but no one can control that.
Harumitsu deserves to have more positive role models in his life, and Kagome's helped Hazou through a lot more than just sealing (remember back when Akane broke up with Hazou? Kagome helped. Kagome's always helping, as much as he can, in the ways he knows how).
I'd like to make sure that Harumitsu knows we care about him, personally. That we're not going to train him to make an explosive tag and drop him like a hot rock. He should be comfortable coming to us for general life advice, not just sealing.
I'd also like to introduce him to Akane, to Ino, and other positive influences... Not to bind him closer to our clan (though I wouldn't be against that), but because Harumitsu deserves to have a healthy support network.
He's a good kid, and he's going to have an uphill struggle. We could be his Uncle Iroh, his kindly mentor. Harumitsu a good kid who deserves better masculine role models than the Hagoromo.
Harumitsu deserves to have more positive role models in his life, and Kagome's helped Hazou through a lot more than just sealing (remember back when Akane broke up with Hazou? Kagome helped. Kagome's always helping, as much as he can, in the ways he knows how).
I'd like to make sure that Harumitsu knows we care about him, personally. That we're not going to train him to make an explosive tag and drop him like a hot rock. He should be comfortable coming to us for general life advice, not just sealing.
I'd also like to introduce him to Akane, to Ino, and other positive influences... Not to bind him closer to our clan (though I wouldn't be against that), but because Harumitsu deserves to have a healthy support network.
He's a good kid, and he's going to have an uphill struggle. We could be his Uncle Iroh, his kindly mentor. Harumitsu a good kid who deserves better masculine role models than the Hagoromo.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Seconding this. It's also a really good idea from a less empathetic perspective. He could be a valuable asset in multiple different ways, but we need to cultivate him for that.
It's necessary to establish a plausible deniability arms-length distance through public statements, so operatives have to do it the hard way when people start suddenly not checking in. Got it.
View: https://youtu.be/OckkpXgYpvc
Also, purely as a private note of interest from somebody who has been at this since before 14 baud modems were a thing, when exactly did society decide to replace "private message" with "direct message?" Seems a bit like somebody wanted to drop a hint regarding the erosion of civil liberties and wasn't listened to, so they turned it into a practical example.
Chapter 485, Conclusions
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
To summarise the clan meeting regarding Ami:
• Mari does not believe this was a sophisticated power play by Ami. In her words, every player has their own style, and Ami avoids overt threats and intimidation in the same way that Mari avoids surrendering control. This was a case of Kei-induced temporary insanity, which can generally be taken at face value.
• Nobody in the clan likes the idea of the contract. Mari thinks it's an unacceptable precedent to give anyone that sort of influence over the clan. Akane and Noburi have taken to heart Kei and Snowflake's observations about how horrifyingly it could go wrong. Kagome just started gathering explosives when he heard about the idea.
• Nobody knows what Hazō is talking about with regard to bullies and projection. Akane is sad to learn about this element of Kei's past. Kagome thinks Ami was a bad sister for listening to Kei instead of teaching the bullies a lesson they wouldn't forget. Noburi is less sure, but joins Kagome in seething on Kei's behalf. Mari shows little interest in the topic.
• In terms of handling things, Akane thinks Hazō should have taken the conversation much more slowly and given Ami time to process and calm down before reaching conclusions—it would be unreasonable to tell someone that their sister had just nearly been kidnapped and tortured to death and expect their first reaction to be calm and rational, much less if they concluded that the danger was ongoing. Mari thinks that asking Ami to optimise her own persuasion was sheer lunacy and can't believe it wasn't an unmitigated disaster that would have made the whole situation so much worse.
• Mari acknowledges Hazō's preference with regard to acting on her own.
• Kagome believes that Ami must be killed immediately, before she can take any hostile action against Mari. Mari approves in principle, but is also aware that the clan is at a severe disadvantage in terms of contingencies—unlike Mari, who knows that Hazō will have to answer for anything she does even after she's dead, Ami is free to posthumously do as much damage as she likes as long as she keeps Kei out of the crossfire. Akane is sure that, as long as Ami can be made to see that this was all a big misunderstanding before she does anything unrecoverable, she will apologise and things can go back to normal. Noburi is less convinced, but thinks it would be a "dick move" to ask Kei and Snowflake to de-escalate the situation and then immediately do things that escalate it.
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You have received 3 XP.
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Apologies for the lack of a full Part 2. The spoon drawer is not my friend today, and I couldn't find a way to make the update interesting enough to be worth writing.
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What do you do?
Voting closes on Saturday 18th of December, 1 p.m. New York time.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
*screams very softly and with love to avoid worsening the spoon situation*