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Not quite sure I'm comfortable with using Snowflake as a scapegoat/distraction. Yeah, Snowflake's a Shadow Clone, but it also trivializes her existence into that of a meat shield. We know from the Isan Pangolin Grub Incident that, although she'll do them, Snowflake's not entirely comfortable with such actions.

Otherwise, your plan looks solid and will earn my vote if you remove this suggestion.

(Note: at work and on mobile, so my responses may be limited/delayed).
Sure. Probably is less interesting anyway if Kei is absent than if the cognitively independent SC is there in her place.
 
Chances of Kabuto being willing to help with (relatively) minimal penalty...?
We could send Noburi to talk with him? But we also know that Noburi doesn't think Kabuto is sus (the way Hazou and Mari do) and may flub a social roll against Kabuto.

"Why is Oro interested in your brother?"

"Oh, trusted buddy whom I don't suspect... Oro is interest because my brother's bloodline because it allows for perfect retention of seals!"

"Very interesting. Let me grab some paralytics and I'll join you."
 
Otherwise, your plan looks solid and will earn my vote if you remove this suggestion.
Done. Also, you've already voted for my plan.

Similarly, I have some feedback on yours.
Coordinate with Noburi to use Summons to find Kei, Ami, Asuma, Naruto, Tsunade, and Shikamaru.
The Summons mostly don't know these people, I don't think they'll be helpful for anything except for specific locations. Also, we know that Noburi is in the main hall, so Hazou going to find them on foot will likely be slower than Orochimaru going to find them on foot.
Send Akane, Atomu, Yuno, Haru, and Mei as well.
I worry that Orochimaru will notice a swarm of Gouketsu ninja running around and realize something's up, and that in the time it takes to find all these people, it'll be too late for Kei.
Include warning to Ami, since she also has FS and could learn SC eventually
I worry that this gives away the secret of the cognitively independent SCs to the messengers.
 
Chances of Kabuto being willing to help with (relatively) minimal penalty...?
"Nephew," Orochimaru interrupted, "Kabuto explained your wild claims during his attempts to direct my attention to your project.

This is all we have to go on. I can't tell if he would help us or not with such little information.

What I do know is that we have limited time and chakra so we should focus on what we are relatively certain will protect both Hazou and Keiko.

I don't believe looking for Kabuto when we have no idea where he is besides probably at the hospital or in the Basement is worth the effort.

Interesting idea though.
 
We could send Noburi to talk with him? But we also know that Noburi doesn't think Kabuto is sus (the way Hazou and Mari do) and may flub a social roll against Kabuto.

"Why is Oro interested in your brother?"

"Oh, trusted buddy whom I don't suspect... Oro is interest because my brother's bloodline because it allows for perfect retention of seals!"

"Very interesting. Let me grab some paralytics and I'll join you."
Funniness aside, Noburi has better opinions of clan secret stuff and (should) know that IN-seal copy is up there.
 
There is no way we can make contacting someone S-ranked from outside the village without Asuma's consent not treasonous. We were explicitly told not to do that after we returned from meeting with Itachi.

I currently believe it is not worth the risk. Since you put out the idea the onerous is on you, @Oneiros , to explain why committing treason (or treason adjacent actions) is worth more than other options. I admit that it will be nearly impossible to convince me because I associate treason with Hazou getting punished eventually. I personally can't think of an argument that would convince me to have him commit treason over other actions because if I could I would advocate for it. However, I try to remain openminded: there could be a sufficient argument that I just can't see.

First there are certain conditions that would have to meet for this to be viable.

The first one is that the degree of risk presented by Orochimaru would have to be extreme. He has decided that he will have Hazou or Kei taken apart in his lab no matter what. Secondly Asuma would be unwilling or unable to stop Orochimaru. This could be either from Orochimaru being a monster and refusing to back down and willing to use force on Asuma to force his will. It could because Asuma is unwilling to risk alienating Orochimaru during war time. Regardless we are not getting a long term solution from the Tower.

The second condition we would need to acquire is obtaining permission to contact Ryugami. The easiest way to obtain this would be to have Hazou and Keiko appointed as diplomats to Mist. Once we are there would not be treasonous to discuss with Ryugami why we were sent to Mist. We would then hope he would begin to plan with no further input from us

A second option would to talk to Ami about the situation. Explain how a crazed mad scientist is planning to murder her little sister. We then tell a story about how few people have survived when Oro wanted them dead though it does turn out that the Angel Without Mercy is one of them. She will be able to read the implication and will follow her best judgement to keep Kei safe
 
What in the world are you talking about? I honestly have no idea. This is not a joke or a literal genie moment, I look at this post and it bounces off my brain. What are you trying to say?



My confusion continues, except now it seems that you think Haru is secretly an S-ranker?

Lailoken, are you perchance in an altered state at the moment? Not judging, only asking. If so, I hope it's for good reasons and you're enjoying it.

Yup. It's a cliche at this point, but it's been the worst week of my life and I'm finally acknowledging the trend projections that it will probably be the best week of my remaining life while dealing with it in terribly unhealthful ways.

I turned off my filter which avoids bringing to my attention patterns which don't exist-

That's called schizophren-

-Shut up, you work for me.

Anyway, the basic reasoning was that Mari is an infiltration specialist who has been cultivating a successor Orochimaru does not know about who has an element she is aware that he is unfamiliar with and knows that Hazou is aware of that fact due to her torturing him with it. She is literally one of the best people who have ever lived at conveying contextually dependant information in an environment where the fourth wall is fragile and the GMs delayed an update to provide one where she adopted and empowered a lightning element. Since thw subject of the conversation is shadow clones which can be popped with a needle and it is being had with somebody established to be a genius trained in them who has already expressed a reluctance to participate the recursive equilibria seemed pretty clear. Good thing she has a genjutsu which prevents shadow clones from transferring memories.
 
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Done. Also, you've already voted for my plan
Damn, my brain just isn't working today :/
The Summons mostly don't know these people, I don't think they'll be helpful for anything except for specific locations.
Good point... Maybe I should reword it so that the Summons go to specific locations (i.e. "hospital, Tsunade's fav bar, The Tower, etc?") While the Goketsu Ninja look at less-famous haunts (Sarutobi estate/Asuma's house, Senju Compound, Uzumaki Compound?)?


Also, we know that Noburi is in the main hall, so Hazou going to find them on foot will likely be slower than Orochimaru going to find them on foot.
I'd intended for Hazou to find Kei first, before coordinating with Noburi... I'll fix the wording/order.

I worry that Orochimaru will notice a swarm of Gouketsu ninja running around and realize something's up, and that in the time it takes to find all these people, it'll be too late for Kei
Swapped the order to find Kei first, and hopefully Mari can distract Orochimaru until help arrives.

I worry that this gives away the secret of the cognitively independent SCs to the messengers.
The messagers are Goketsu Ninja, who already know about Snowflake. We had an adoption ceremony with Snowflake, and Atomu, Mai, and the rest all reassured Snelflake that she belonged with the Goketsu just as much as they did --shadow clone or ninja.
 
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First there are certain conditions that would have to meet for this to be viable.

The first one is that the degree of risk presented by Orochimaru would have to be extreme. He has decided that he will have Hazou or Kei taken apart in his lab no matter what. Secondly Asuma would be unwilling or unable to stop Orochimaru. This could be either from Orochimaru being a monster and refusing to back down and willing to use force on Asuma to force his will. It could because Asuma is unwilling to risk alienating Orochimaru during war time. Regardless we are not getting a long term solution from the Tower.

The second condition we would need to acquire is obtaining permission to contact Ryugami. The easiest way to obtain this would be to have Hazou and Keiko appointed as diplomats to Mist. Once we are there would not be treasonous to discuss with Ryugami why we were sent to Mist. We would then hope he would begin to plan with no further input from us

A second option would to talk to Ami about the situation. Explain how a crazed mad scientist is planning to murder her little sister. We then tell a story about how few people have survived when Oro wanted them dead though it does turn out that the Angel Without Mercy is one of them. She will be able to read the implication and will follow her best judgement to keep Kei safe

I accept the hypothetical situation where both Asuma is unwilling to help us and Oro is incessantly trying to capture us as a suitable scenario to consider treason since Leaf has essentially turned its back on us.

Do you believe that is what is going on currently? If so, why do you believe that?

How do we have time right now to have Hazou and Kei be appointed as Leaf ambassadors? I seriously doubt we have time for that since Oro is targeting Hazou and Kei right now.
 
The verdict is in. You may spend FP to find out Tsunade's (probable) location.

@eaglejarl @Velorien How fast can Hazou move at the moment? Also, how much chakra does he have?
Hazō is still using a cane, but in an emergency he can push himself to a quick walking pace. Having just summoned a couple of dogs, he's on well under 100 CP.

how common knowledge are those handsigns? goketsu specific?
Gōketsu-specific, though they're derived from Mist hand signs (because nobody has the time to invent a new sign language from scratch).
 
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Adhoc vote count started by eaglejarl on Oct 23, 2021 at 1:43 PM, finished with 179 posts and 14 votes.
  • 28

    [X]lore update
    [X] Action Plan: More Maris More Problems
    [x] Action Plan: Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive, and Dodge
    [X] Interlude: Shinji's Last Mission
    [X] Interlude - The Great Conclave
    [X] Manipulate Keiko into unknowingly walk into Orochimaru's path.
    [X] Fate points
    [X] Let Orochimaru meet Kei
    [X] Detonate the emergency-SIN
    [X] Deploy the emergency Snuncle
    [X] Interlude: Mari Does The Thing
    [X] Detonate a Jiraiya's Epic Seal of Awesomeness With A Really Awesome Name That You Have To Say All Of Every Time Or It Won't Work And Also I'll Punch You In The Face, This Means You, Hazō within Orochimaru's vicinity
    [X] Action plan: summoning help
    [X] Action Plan: Ops(Operation Panic and Screaming)
    [X] Interlude: Everyone keeps misinterpreting Orochimaru's honest attempts to socialize after his adopted cousin found his totally-not-a-sex-dungeon and the gimp he forgot to release from there.
    [X] Convince Oro to upload the hivemind onto every thinking being in existence

Voting is closed.
 
Adhoc vote count started by eaglejarl on Oct 23, 2021 at 1:43 PM, finished with 179 posts and 14 votes.
  • 28

    [X]lore update
    [X] Action Plan: More Maris More Problems
    [x] Action Plan: Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive, and Dodge
    [X] Interlude: Shinji's Last Mission
    [X] Interlude - The Great Conclave
    [X] Manipulate Keiko into unknowingly walk into Orochimaru's path.
    [X] Fate points
    [X] Let Orochimaru meet Kei
    [X] Detonate the emergency-SIN
    [X] Deploy the emergency Snuncle
    [X] Interlude: Mari Does The Thing
    [X] Detonate a Jiraiya's Epic Seal of Awesomeness With A Really Awesome Name That You Have To Say All Of Every Time Or It Won't Work And Also I'll Punch You In The Face, This Means You, Hazō within Orochimaru's vicinity
    [X] Action plan: summoning help
    [X] Action Plan: Ops(Operation Panic and Screaming)
    [X] Interlude: Everyone keeps misinterpreting Orochimaru's honest attempts to socialize after his adopted cousin found his totally-not-a-sex-dungeon and the gimp he forgot to release from there.
    [X] Convince Oro to upload the hivemind onto every thinking being in existence

Voting is closed.
Hm. On the one hand: [screams]

On the other: more time to think about the plan
 
I accept the hypothetical situation where both Asuma is unwilling to help us and Oro is incessantly trying to capture us as a suitable scenario to consider treason since Leaf has essentially turned its back on us.

Do you believe that is what is going on currently? If so, why do you believe that?

How do we have time right now to have Hazou and Kei be appointed as Leaf ambassadors? I seriously doubt we have time for that since Oro is targeting Hazou and Kei right now.

Nope. Because I don't have enough information to make any calls right now.

This is not designed for being an immediate response to the situation. It is assuming that we have escaped the immediate danger but still have an s-rank problem on our hands. I think it's worthwhile to try to game plan out worst case scenarios. And having an immortal demigod trying to kill us is a worst case scenario
 
Good news! I'm tired and still a little sick (although on the mend) and you didn't have a lot of time to plan, so I'll do the Lore Update and you can continue discussing.

Less good news: We are rejecting the Declaration. Mari did not make Shadow Clones before coming to rescue Hazō.

Voting remains open until Wednesday noon at London time.
 
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@Paperclipped @RandomOTP Regarding the "Don't leave Snowflake behind", i would like to note that while Snowflake could feel badly about dealing Orochimaru, if Mari shows nothing to him Oro could decide to react...badly, "We don't have a Mari anymore" Badly. On the other hand, i admit that leaving Snowflake behind could mean Oro finds about the divergence between Shadow Clone, making everything worse.
 
Gōketsu-specific, though they're derived from Mist hand signs (because nobody has the time to invent a new sign language from scratch).

Oh, come on man. I don't want to be "that person", but the Gouketsu spent an entire year being hunted by everything under the tutelage of an elite jounin infiltration expert who had already prepped to create an entire new village from scratch and felt comfortable ret-conning my teamspeak jutsu as handsigns in front of ninjas from the entire world day one in Mist after having been adopted by the greatest spymaster ever born.

Please please please don't tell me they didn't ever think of "hey, perhaps we should come up with a way to clandestinely communicate with each other." They are so proactive that Hazou got his ass kicked for tying his sister up during a training session. He was so proactive he was literally diagnosed with mental illness and faced administrative punishment for making lists.
 
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Oh, come on man. I don't want to be "that person", but the Gouketsu spent an entire year being hunted by everything under the tutelage of an elite jounin infiltration expert who had already prepped to create an entire new village from scratch and felt comfortable ret-conning my teamspeak jutsu as handsigns in front of ninjas from the entire world day one in Mist after having been adopted by the greatest spymaster ever born.

Please please please don't tell me they didn't ever think of "hey, perhaps we should come up with a way to clandestinely communicate with each other." They are so proactive that Hazou got his ass kicked for tying his sister up during a training session. He was so proactive he was literally diagnosed with mental illness and faced administrative punishment for making lists.
My guess is that it leans more 'goketsu-specific' than 'Mist derived', in the sense that if you knew both you could trace a bunch of similarities between the two (like 'we have signs for X and Y but not Z because X and Y are signs in Mist sign language but Z isn't') but the actual signs and concepts they map to are Goketsu-specific and your ordinary Mist-nin wouldn't recognize them.
 
My guess is that it leans more 'goketsu-specific' than 'Mist derived', in the sense that if you knew both you could trace a bunch of similarities between the two (like 'we have signs for X and Y but not Z because X and Y are signs in Mist sign language but Z isn't') but the actual signs and concepts they map to are Goketsu-specific and your ordinary Mist-nin wouldn't recognize them.

Just so long as they quantifiably proved the impracticality of cracking it. It's not as if they have a double-black certified paranoid cryptographer who rigorously trained them in preparatory dungeon dances or something.
 
We should have a contingency for if oro tells hazou to stay with him, preventing him from going to keiko
How about "no"? He's not exactly respective of Leaf law, but he wouldn't even be here if he didn't appreciate the implicit power behind it. Taking a royal voting clan head hostage inside their own compound is the kind of thing which brings bricks down.
 
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