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Hazō thinks it's "Have Kei run like hell". If Orochimaru still had an immediate interest in Hazō, he'd stay with him (or take him away) and leave Kei for dessert.
[X] Let Orochimaru meet Kei

Since we know that Kei was present to tell Ruri to give the speech, no situation can occur where Orochimaru causes significant harm to her.

Clearly this choice of action can have no negative consequences whatsoever.
 
[X] Let Orochimaru meet Kei

Since we know that Kei was present to tell Ruri to give the speech, no situation can occur where Orochimaru causes significant harm to her.

Clearly this choice of action can have no negative consequences whatsoever.
At the time when Kei is OK, Ruri notes that Hazō and Orochimaru are absent, meaning the timeline only guarantees her safety until either of them turns up.
 
[X] Let Orochimaru meet Kei

Since we know that Kei was present to tell Ruri to give the speech, no situation can occur where Orochimaru causes significant harm to her.

Clearly this choice of action can have no negative consequences whatsoever.
I'm tentatively in favor of having Kei demonstrate her SC to Suncle in front of a crowd. It's not ideal since people will know there's something interesting about Kei and how she uses SC, but Kei will probably get to live.

However, we are ultimately only procrastinating on the issue that if Oro wants something from us we have to either comply or run like hell. We need a way to protect ourselves and since FOOM won't really kick in until years from now we can only rely on our allies.

Do we trust Asuma and Shikamaru's contingencies or do we run from Snuncle and therefore Leaf permanently?
 
[x] Action Plan: Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive, and Dodge
Words: 185

Spend FP to learn Tsunade's (probable location)
  • Find Kei, send her to 7th Path immediately.
  • Coordinate with Noburi to use Summons to find Kei, Ami, Asuma, Naruto, Tsunade, and Shikamaru.
    • Send Akane, Atomu, Yuno, Haru, and Mei as well.
    • Summons go to prominent specific locations (i.e. "hospital," "The Tower) While the Goketsu Ninja look at less-famous haunts ("Sarutobi estate/Asuma's house," "Senju Compound," "Tsunade's fav bar," "Uzumaki Compound")
    • Include warning to Ami, since she also has FS and could learn SC eventually
  • Go to Asuma, per Mari's lie. Send runner ahead (Summons/ninja, wherever faster).
  • Suggestion, to be sanity checked with Mari, Ami, Kei and the rest: Coordinate with Shika, Ami, and Kagome to fake paperwork, indicating that Snowflake's existence really is just a long-term Nara social experiment
    • Suggestion for fake project: deliberate and controlled personality drift via shadow clones.
    • Intent: make it seem Mari was fooled by/misunderstood the social experiment.
    • If Passed, Console: Snowflake, we're sorry for the illusion. We hate that we're diminishing your personhood, even as a front, on paper. This is in no way reflective of our feelings/thoughts regarding you.
      • Full formal apology
 
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Reaction post + comments, because I don't have the time to multipost.

"At your age," Orochimaru observed, "my idea of an intellectual challenge was tracing the connection between elemental affinity and the balance of the bodily humours. Some of the analytical procedures I developed continue to serve me to this day."

That's actually kind of a cool tidbit to throw in. That might qualify as Oro trying to make educational small-talk. Neat.

"What if you thought of it as an experiment?" he tried.

Orochimaru paused. "Nephew, are you aware of the fate of the last shinobi to attempt to manipulate me?"

Hazō froze. As Orochimaru slowly turned around, head twisting just a little further past his shoulder than was natural, he could feel himself break into a sweat.

If he used the Multiple Earth Wall Technique to block the corridor, would he have a few moments' grace to get out of the building? Maybe Orochimaru wouldn't consider it worth the effort of hunting him down, and that would buy him time to come up with a plan before their next encounter.

I'm glad Hazou and the hivemind are on the same page here, but the mishap is still unfortunate.

No. If Orochimaru didn't go after him, he'd go back to Plan A: Possibly Kidnap Hazō's Family.

Unlike last time, Orochimaru hadn't unleashed his aura. That meant there might be room to salvage the situation.

Hazō gave the deep, stiff Bow 13, a Chūnin Exam special designed to appease visiting Kage before they could further ponder your insult and realise it was bad enough to demand restitution.

"My humblest apologies. I did not mean to give offence in any way." Praise be to Mum, Mari, and the Iron Nerve for the ability to deliver that line sincerely and without his teeth chattering.

Orochimaru seemed to consider for a second, glancing down at his pale grey sleeves as if they were relevant to the situation.

Then he turned away again, as if losing interest.

Woot. Honestly, that's pretty much a win, considering. Now Hazou just needs to not...

He uttered a silent prayer to the ancestors, the Will of Fire, and the spirit of Jiraiya, who could have talked his way out of anything given enough motivation.

"You know," Hazō said, "I don't think I've had a chance to tell you about the Great Seal."

Finally, to his satisfaction and his regret, Orochimaru turned to face him head-on.

"I have seen the misshapen lump you describe as a replica of the most sophisticated seal known to man," Orochimaru said coldly. "I am given to understand it posed a puzzle which Leaf's sealmasters were able to solve overnight by mass-producing a beginners' training seal. I was aware that standards had declined in my absence, but that does not mean I appreciate a mockery being made of my discipline."

The corridor narrowed around Hazō like the jaws of a hungry beast, light turning to shadow to darkness until all that was left was Orochimaru's gaze in the middle of a lifeless void. There was nothing to cling to, nothing to keep him whole. Orochimaru's eyes cut straight into the flesh of his mind, severing arteries and carving out nerves as Hazō was reshaped into a thing more to Orochimaru's convenience—

"Wait!" Hazō screeched. "You haven't heard everything!"

The fangs paused briefly, and in that gap, Hazō rushed to get as many words out as he could.

"There's more to the seal and we haven't solved the puzzle and I have a lot more information to offer and—"

Orochimaru blinked. Everything was exactly the way it had been before. Hazō stumbled, caught himself on the wall, and before he knew it, he was clinging to it as if to make sure it wouldn't disappear.

"Proceed," Orochimaru allowed

... Not just push it. This feels like it's going to go rather poorly. Though at least we know exactly where Oro stands on the great seal front, that's useful knowledge.

Hazō kept one hand on the wall as he took slow, hesitant steps back in the direction they'd come from. "Let's… Let's find a room."

New objective: keep Orochimaru in one place for the rest of the evening without boring him, offending him, giving away secrets, or becoming interesting enough to keep.

Honestly "New objective: keep Orochimaru in one place for the rest of the evening without boring him, offending him, giving away secrets, AND becoming interesting enough to keep." Feels like a more reasonable goal right now. Not doing any of those, not a chance. Not even at our best.


"I can," Hazō said, willing the Iron Nerve's veneer of calm not to fail him. "You might not believe me, but it's a fact that Leaf's sealmasters have already extracted usable information from the basic replicas we have now—not just proof that we're dealing with a seal, but enough information to make inferences about its mechanisms of function. It's the reason we already have a way to slow down the Great Seal's deterioration. I'm sure with your abilities, you'd be able to get much more out of it than we have already. In fact, if I could just give you a few examples of the pathways we've already identified—"

"Nephew," Orochimaru interrupted, "Kabuto explained your wild claims during his attempts to direct my attention to your project. If you stand by your insistence that you were able to accurately memorise a vast 3D seal, in its entirety, in a matter of seconds, and recall it still despite the Dragon's psychic assault that cast you back to the Human Path and nearly shattered your mind, that means you have a powerful combination of cognitive enhancement and 3D scanning ability. This is something I require."

Oh, no.

Oh no. Him calling us nephew means very little here. The fact it was the "psychic Dragon attack" lie that was believed honestly probably was helpful to sell the dragons as a threat. But yeah, this was exactly what I was worried about. Iron Nerve vivisection is an attractive target.
Could we point him at the ambassador? Naw, not uplift of us.
But at least we know Orochimaru takes sealing seriously and cares meaningfully about it. Also useful knowledge. We're learning lots on our deathbed.

Orochimaru: Intimidation ?? + ? = ??

Hazō: Resolve 26 - 12 - 3 = 11

Hazō is Taken Out legendarily.

RIP. I mean, there's little doubt that intimidation is his first or second highest social, and I feel the drop-off after those two is steep. To say nothing about how many TYS points he's acquired along the way. That's a lot of minus value. Not that I think it would have helped even without it.

Mari spends 3 FP to invoke "(Formerly) Marked for Death" to improvise like Hazō's life depends on it, "Team Uplift" to put herself on the line for his sake, and "Deceitful Imp" to lie her head off.

Mari: Deceit ?? + ? + ? + ? + ? = ??
Mari spends 1 FP to reroll.
Mari: Deceit ?? + ? + ? + ? + ? = ??
Mari spends 1 FP to reroll.
Mari: Deceit ?? + ? + ? + ? + ? = ??
Mari spends 1 FP to reroll.
Mari: Deceit ?? + ? + ? + ? + ? = ??

Orochimaru: Deceit ?? + ? = ??

Mari wins. Mari inflicts ?? mental stress.

Theory that intimate (and resolve?) Are his two highest, slightly validated. Though using that many rerolls is a sign how not confident she was.

Also, Mari has a knack for stumbling upon us right when an S-ranker wants to make our life miserable. That's truly a skill. It would be a MUCH more useful skill if she was able to stand against them, but hey, she won this combat. That's huge! Thank goodness for specialization.

Actually," she said to Orochimaru, "I've been thinking about a research topic you might find interesting. Tell me, what are your thoughts on cognitively-independent shadow clones?"

Oh, no. Mari, no.

Oh no. There's no way this doesn't come up again, even if we're not toast right this second. And by we, I mean Kei.

There is one," Mari said. "I could introduce her to you—or to her original, at least. I believe she's currently in one of the far outbuildings, lecturing her summon on proper behaviour."

"The very notion is preposterous," Orochimaru said. "I'll believe it when I see it." He rose from his seat to follow her, carelessly knocking one of the ritual sacrifice cards to the floor

The symbolism here is great, well done!
Hopefully Oro finds it interesting but not strictly helpful. If nothing else, if Keiko is viable for this, so should any Nara be, and they're more plentiful/less problematic to make disappear. Not that I want Oro ANYWHERE near having multiple variations or discovering the secrets of the 5.

Understatement of the century


I approve. I doubt FP are going to save any of Hazou's rolls tbh

Oh, 100% not. But hey, they saved Mari's. Also, situations like this right here are why we need to FOOM. So that scary Ninja stop being able to just mentally crush us to get their way. We at least need to make them physically do it.

Why don't we just evacuate to the 7th path? Oro can't murder us or Kei there

[Citation needed]. Orochimaru can't murder Hazou or Kei there right away. He's also a summoner. If he really, truly wanted to track us down on the 7th path, the odds aren't 100% or 0%. Cannai would Probably protect us, at least. Pantsa... That's a different question. And it's Kei he's after.
 
OK but in context...isn't 'mad shit' not like...what you said is shit, but more like...'you were talking a lot about'?

On topic of scary snake guy...why not go to Asuma while sending a summon to get Kei. At worst he can approve a new 'mission' to get away from Oro.
 
Theory that intimate (and resolve?) Are his two highest, slightly validated.
This typo conjures up some truly horrifying imagery.

Edit:
Honestly "New objective: keep Orochimaru in one place for the rest of the evening without boring him, offending him, giving away secrets, AND becoming interesting enough to keep." Feels like a more reasonable goal right now. Not doing any of those, not a chance. Not even at our best.
Actually, thanks to Mari, Hazō may have just barely pulled it off.
 
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Really, Kei should just vacuum step pretty far and then skywalk up to a random location so high in the sky as to be a drop in the bucket of searchable locations, then camp on a skytower, periodically checking in at the 7th path until Hazou or Noburi retrieves her. If Asuma chastises us for Skywalker secrecy...well, he's the Hokage he should be protecting his people and Kei was in danger :p
 
Thing is, she hasn't lied. Kei really does have cognitively indpendent shadow clones, as a direct result of her bloodline. If we try to sneak Kei away then Orochimaru will become annoyed (and at this point he has enough information to narrow the pool of candidates significantly, so odds are Kei would just receive a visit the next day).

From Orochimaru's perspective, when he sees Kei he'll understand that the cognitive independence of her shadow clones is tied to an effect her bloodline provides, which will be suboptimal but not-unexpected because if there's anything out there that would do something 'impossible' like that it would be a thinker bloodline. The only question left, then, is what happens next.

The Ami Call sings. In the meantime, his whole thing is deep lore. He might hesitate to eliminate his easiest access to a foreign thinker clan presents a mutually beneficial compromise.


This is why we don't ignore orochimaru, lest we get caught off guard

Sure, Orochimaru is the most dangerous person to ignore here...


I know she isn't lying. But if Oro figures out what's going on, which he likely will, we will have a problem.

I don't think Mari thought this through, that's one of her main flaws. Similar when she killed that creep back in Iron.

Mari is an infiltration specialist. She is very good at
shouting "shit has gone tits-up" to a support team. Our job is to improvise a support team on-the-fly. Gee, if only the GMs h as d be provided a local resource recently...


I'm sure that's a mari shadowclone

if she was a shadow-clone she would hav we used one to explicitly explain the plan. She is using her specialty and trusting her support team to put the inference together to save her from the expected vivisection.


What is running away going to accomplish?

Wasn't this whole quest founded on, "let's run away from our nation-state to a new nation-state and see what happens?"


I really appreciate that in spite of it all, Oro still calls Hazou 'nephew'

it's actually pretty awesome, especially when he does it in public. There are surely no undertones he is cultivating.


Y'all, of course Mari lied. And Hazou's bloodline limit, if nothing else. There's a decent chance this comes up again. I wonder what our cousin Shin is doing these days...
Actually, wait. Is the Mist ambassador in leaf a Kurosawa? Because if so, and if Oro gets curious... That may be Two high ranking Mist bloodline folks that go missing. That's enough to end an alliance.

Yep, the notorious traitors led by a notorious traitor who can't be bothered to even live behind the common walls
going missing are more suspicious than a diplomatic convoy going missing when one already has mysteriously disappeared aren't a reason for a major global power to secure a vital strategic resource before an imminent world war.

Hey, Have I mentioned the whole student exchange program which could defuse a dozen problems at once? Feels like I probably should.


@eaglejarl is offline, so no QM response available yet, but I'd like to see some kind of thread consensus on whether the hivemind wants to spend resources on this.

The only remotely friendly person in existence who can give Captain Murdersnake pause happening to be in the area? Gee, give the thread some time to think about it...
 
Something else we need to consider: Mari made the choice to throw Kei under the bus to save Hazou.

...I don't think we are ever going to be able to salvage Mari and Kei's relationship now.

Even if we resolve this situation with everyone alive and not in horrible physical pain or whatever Oro can think up Kei will eventually realize that Mari made another Hidden Swamp-esque choice and this time Kei was found wanting.

We could argue that Mari was just using Kei as a delaying tactic and that Mari trusted Hazou would be able to come up with a satisfactory plan once he wasn't in Suncle's immediate presence, but Kei will somewhat correctly point out that Mari could have volunteered Noburi instead.

But that's a problem for tomorrow-Hazou. Today-Hazou needs to keep his all of family's guts inside of their bodies.
 
Something else we need to consider: Mari made the choice to throw Kei under the bus to save Hazou.
She's also basically sacrificing herself to give Kei more time to escape, too....
Weird situation

EDIT: She may have (correctly) assumed she would need to veer close to the truth or the Deceit TN would've been higher, so nothing else would've really worked. Still a bit fucked up but idk Hazou was basically screwed otherwise, at least Kei has a chance to escape unlike he would have
 
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I honestly can't tell what Oro's deal is. The canon Oro I got: he was selfish, amoral and evil, but also curious, cautious, and cunning. This Oro just seems like an S-rank nutcase.

Specifically, Oro had two options here:
  1. Don't believe Hazō could copy the seal. In that case, this is a dumbass lie that a curious, cautious, and cunning Oro would at most retaliate for, to ward off other people playing dumbass tricks, but not, like, risk killing a clan head over.
  2. Do believe Hazō could copy the seal. In that case, logically he should be much more willing to believe the story. A curious, cautious, and cunning Oro would be concerned about that, at least to the point where he wouldn't immediately sabotage the rescue effort.
While MfD!Oro is certainly not cunning, I have very little idea whether the points above map to him at all.
 
I honestly can't tell what Oro's deal is. The canon Oro I got: he was selfish, amoral and evil, but also curious, cautious, and cunning. This Oro just seems like an S-rank nutcase.

Specifically, Oro had two options here:
  1. Don't believe Hazō could copy the seal. In that case, this is a dumbass lie that a curious, cautious, and cunning Oro would at most retaliate for, to ward off other people playing dumbass tricks, but not, like, risk killing a clan head over.
  2. Do believe Hazō could copy the seal. In that case, logically he should be much more willing to believe the story. A curious, cautious, and cunning Oro would be concerned about that, at least to the point where he wouldn't immediately sabotage the rescue effort.
While MfD!Oro is certainly not cunning, I have very little idea whether the points above map to him at all.
tbh the vibe I get is "Be a scary asshole and people will do all of the work for you." Even if he's being unreasonable, he ultimately gets the information he wants just by being the way that he is. I think the persona is genuine but exaggerated
 
I honestly can't tell what Oro's deal is. The canon Oro I got: he was selfish, amoral and evil, but also curious, cautious, and cunning. This Oro just seems like an S-rank nutcase.
Tbh I think he's a drama queen. He does his scary essie nonsense because it is the reputation that he has created. If you don't really care about the social game and make some number of copses you can easily scare people into doing what you want
 
tbh the vibe I get is "Be a scary asshole and people will do all of the work for you." Even if he's being unreasonable, he ultimately gets the information he wants just by being the way that he is. I think the persona is genuine but exaggerated
Tbh I think he's a drama queen. He does his scary essie nonsense because it is the reputation that he has created. If you don't really care about the social game and make some number of copses you can easily scare people into doing what you want
This is an angle I hadn't considered. My initial reaction is, wouldn't Mari and Ami have seen through it?
 
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