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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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[X] Action Plan: More Maris More Problems
Word Count: 214

Declare (-1 FP):
  • It's Mari's SC that's leading Orochimaru away (SC1).
  • Mari left another SC behind (SC2) to contact Hazou if he was freed, or run for help if SC1 was destroyed.
  • Main Mari is in the main hall for Ruri's speech.
Hazou:
  • Update SC2 on what happened
    • Orochimaru is interested in him and Kei now.
    • First impression on what to do and who to contact? Be brief.
    • Hazou intends to message the Tower.
    • Potential lie: Snowflake is a long-term and secret experiment to induce directed personality drift, and Mari wasn't in the loop.
      • Once we have time, can fake Nara paperwork to support.
  • Tell SC2 to dispel so that Mari/SCs gets the information. Tell her to get Kei out of the hall so that Kei can flee.
    • Kei should try to make contact with people who could help. Some ideas: Naruto, Ami, Tsunade, Shikamaru.
    • Keep a summon on hand. If Orochimaru is coming quickly, Reverse summon to Seventh Path.
    • Otherwise, Kei and Hazou will reconvene in Seventh Path in a short time.
  • Summon an appropriate Dog to run ahead to the Tower and relay the message that Orochimaru may be about to kidnap Hazou and Kei.
  • Run directly to the Tower with a puppy in hand.
    • Reverse summon if things get hairy.


I'm not sure about the rest of the plan, but the main idea of using Mari SCs to coordinate is extremely reasonable imo as a Declare, and solves many problems. I'm skeptical that she would send in her main body to lie to Oro's face, and if she's casting one, the cost of additional SCs is cheap enough that the potential coordination/information transfer ability is well worth it.
 
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roobee said:
the precautionary principle IS to keep the possibility that oro isn't gonna forcibly dissect kei/hazou in mind. to ask a quick question if oro is going to do that.
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No, the precautionary principle is to act in a way that minimizes the risk of the worst things happening if things turn out badly, even if we aren't sure that those bad projections are necessarily correct.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle said:
Many definitions of the precautionary principle exist: Precaution may be defined as "caution in advance", "caution practiced in the context of uncertainty", or informed prudence. Two ideas lie at the core of the principle:[14]​: 34 ​
  • an expression of a need by decision-makers to anticipate harm before it occurs. Within this element lies an implicit reversal of the onus of proof: under the precautionary principle it is the responsibility of an activity-proponent to establish that the proposed activity will not (or is very unlikely to) result in significant harm.
  • the concept of proportionality of the risk and the cost and feasibility of a proposed action.
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In this case, there is a meaningful risk that Kei is under imminent personal risk, and the precautionary principle says that without proportionally strong evidence that this is misguided, we should act first to mitigate it.

If, on the other hand, your reading is correct and Orochimaru is not actually going to dissect Kei, the harm of acting incorrectly by running away is vastly smaller. At most, Orochimaru will be a bit miffed that we ran away from him... though even then he mostly seemed to want to be left alone.
 
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[X] Action Plan: More Maris More Problems

Not too sure about this plan but the vote's closing real soon and this looks functional at a casual glance.
 
Even if everyone successfully escapes from the scene, what is the medium-term solution here?

Oro might now that Hazō did memorize the full detail of the Great Seal and that might help incline him towards being involved but the only advice given to us about avoiding Oro's Bad Ending was something like "don't be interesting". It seems like we've made ourselves look interesting and now Mari has made some unnamed SC user (which could fairly reasonably be sleuthed as Kei) also interesting. Is the hope that we can escape and he'll just forget about us after he sleeps? Getting Asuma and/or Tsunade involved can help stop an immediate threat, but at best I'd expect they give Oro a stern reminder that Leaf ninja are friends, not food.

I guess my point is that Orochimaru is probably capable of evaluating the consequences of his own actions without reminders, so whatever he's willing to do right now wouldn't really change even if he gets a stern look from Tsunade and Asuma.

That said, my totally serious suggestion is to overload his interest counter until a buffer overflow occurs and he's no longer interested in any of us anymore. Alternatively, just give him so much shit to be interested in that he's unlikely to get around to Bad Ending us until we come up with a better plan. Also, being right next to him lets us help guide him on the path of rational self interest and steer him towards ways he can accomplish his goals without harming anyone we don't want harmed.

[]Plan: What's the worst that could happen?
  • Kei was last seen overseeing the celebration. Guide Oro there and work with Kei to introduce Snowflake to Oro.
  • Explain theory that Frozen Skein not copying to clones is what lets Snowflake exist. FS specifics are our ally's secret, but bloodlines not copying to SC seems sharable and a starting point for research.
  • Ask for Oro's assistance in recreating and testing this by:
    • Teaching SC to one or more Nara
    • Teaching SC to another FS user (Ami)
    • Collecting members of Rock's Thinker bloodline



If this joint project works we can then include our uncle on other projects, including but not limited to:
-Not being executed for treason after suggesting giving one of Leaf's strongest jutsu to an already powerful and influential foreign ninja
-Elemental mastery to create The Day After Tomorrow super-storms.
-Erasing the Hags as a Clan
-Stacked implosion seals
-Kill box immunity so we can treason all day every day
-Creating permanent Earth Walls at elevated positions for kinetic bombardment
-Recruiting Naruto into the Haremzō
-Teaching Oro to FOOM.
 
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RandomOTP said:
[x] Action Plan: Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive, and Dodge
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I would like this more if:
  • You cut Naruto, Atomu, Yuno, Haru, and Mei. Maybe even Tsunade. No need to upfront more complexity than the plan requires. Tsunade you could cut because she can be added later if initial contingencies don't suffice, but I don't care that much either way. The Hokage and Nara are the key players, and Ami can plan fine.
  • The plan warned Ami more explicitly, since she has the same bloodline. She'll figure it out anyway, but y'know, social points.
  • The last point was proposed with less certainty. I wouldn't want to mess with Mari's plan when we can't coordinate with her.
But overall this seems like the sanest plan to me so far.

[x] Action Plan: Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive, and Dodge
 
Another idea. we can ask oro if he can pause meeting kei. to give kei more time to mentally prepare herself to get over her fear of meeting him.
or we could phrase it as. let us help kei get over her fear first. so she doesn't become an incoherent gibbering mess when talking to you.
the risk of this is if he says no and then kei runs away, our question becomes suspicious.
 
Paperclipped said:
[X] Action Plan: More Maris More Problems
Word Count: 180

Declare (-1 FP):
  • It's Mari's SC that's leading Orochimaru away (SC1).
  • Mari left another SC behind (SC2) to contact Hazou if he was freed, or run for help if SC1 was destroyed.
  • Main Mari is in the main hall for Ruri's speech.
Hazou:
  • Update SC2 on what happened -- Orochimaru is interested in him and Kei now.
    • What's her first impression on what to do and who to contact? Be brief.
  • Tell SC2 to dispel so that Main Mari gets the information. Tell her to get Kei out of the hall, possibly replacing her with Snowflake, so that Kei can flee.
    • Kei should try to make contact with people who could help. Some ideas: Naruto, Ami, Tsunade, Shikamaru.
    • If Orochimaru is coming quickly, Kei flees to Seventh Path.
    • Otherwise, Kei and Hazou will reconvene in Seventh Path in a short time.
  • Summon an appropriate Dog to run ahead to the Tower and relay the message that Orochimaru may be about to kidnap Hazou and Kei.
  • Run directly to the Tower with a puppy in hand.
    • Reverse Summon if things get hairy.
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Plan updated and fleshed out. Now involves Reverse Summoning out of danger, explicit list of potential contacts, clearer ideas for how to coordinate. Potential improvement:
  • What to do once we're at the Tower?
  • SC2 dispelling could give information to SC1. We could use this somehow to coordinate around Orochimaru?
I'm not a huge fan of the social-experiment SC idea, but if we went with it, it would be good to communicate it to SC1 so that she can frame the narrative effectively.
 
faflec said:
Hazou can't run, he should be getting other people to do it.
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It's unclear exactly how crippled he is currently. I'm leaving a Reverse Summoning contingency, but we're fairly limited in our ability to maneuver in the estate. For instance, going and finding Noburi could be dangerous, because it might put us, Noburi, and Kei in the same room at the same time while Orochimaru is literally making his way over there. Similarly, finding other people (e.g. Akane) takes time that we don't have currently. I would have proposed using lots of Summons to find everyone (which might draw Orochimaru's attention to the forced evac and is itself a risk), but I thought from this line:
Velorien said:
Hazō glanced between Hebifaya, rapidly slithering out of sight, and Orochimaru, stalking off for purposes unknown, and wished he still had enough chakra for a shadow clone.
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that Hazou didn't have the chakra left for a lot of Summons.

@eaglejarl @Velorien How fast can Hazou move at the moment? Also, how much chakra does he have?
 
Paperclipped said:
[X] Action Plan: More Maris More Problems
Word Count: 214

Declare (-1 FP):
  • It's Mari's SC that's leading Orochimaru away (SC1).
  • Mari left another SC behind (SC2) to contact Hazou if he was freed, or run for help if SC1 was destroyed.
  • Main Mari is in the main hall for Ruri's speech.
Hazou:
  • Update SC2 on what happened
    • Orochimaru is interested in him and Kei now.
    • First impression on what to do and who to contact? Be brief.
    • Hazou intends to message the Tower.
    • Potential lie: Snowflake is a long-term and secret experiment to induce directed personality drift, and Mari wasn't in the loop.
      • Once we have time, can fake Nara paperwork to support.
  • Tell SC2 to dispel so that Mari/SCs gets the information. Tell her to get Kei out of the hall, possibly replacing her with Snowflake, so that Kei can flee.
    • Kei should try to make contact with people who could help. Some ideas: Naruto, Ami, Tsunade, Shikamaru.
    • If Orochimaru is coming quickly, Kei flees to Seventh Path.
    • Otherwise, Kei and Hazou will reconvene in Seventh Path in a short time.
  • Summon an appropriate Dog to run ahead to the Tower and relay the message that Orochimaru may be about to kidnap Hazou and Kei.
  • Run directly to the Tower with a puppy in hand.
    • Reverse Summon if things get hairy.
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Updated.
faflec said:
Edit: @Paperclipped Please make sure to check the message to the tower with Mari's SC.
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Done. Also, incorporated @RandomOTP 's lie idea for Mari to accept/reject as she prefers.
 
Velorien said:
Forgot to give Hazō Consequences for receiving double digits of mental stress. He is now Cowed (Mild) and has a Crippled Will (Medium). He is very, very lucky that this didn't happen a month from now, when it would have given him a fresh Severe as well.
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Don't we get additional FP for receiving Consequences?

EDIT: Found the quote in the Rules Doc
Rules Doc said:
There are two guaranteed ways to earn Fate Points: Win conflicts and/or take Consequences. At the conclusion of a conflict with meaningful stakes, each participant gains a Fate Point per Consequence they took during the conflict. Victorious characters gain an additional Fate Point.
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[X] Lore Update
[X] Interlude: Shinji's Last Mission

Paperclipped said:
Run directly to the Tower with a puppy in hand.
  • Reverse Summon if things get hairy.
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We should also suggest this precaution to Kei
 
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Oneiros said:
I find this entirely frustrating. There is a crazed demigod who is endangering our family and you refuse to consider looking at outside solutions specifically when two days ago you said
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And less than a day ago I posted this:
Dictator4Hire said:
I'm currently in favor of option 2, but I would love to hear if there are other options and/or compelling arguments in favor of 1 or 3.
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Tbh, I'm a bit flabbergasted. You left a funny reaction on the last message you quoted from me so I assumed we were bantering. I only leave those reactions when a post makes me laugh through humor.

Oneiros said:
So it seems that you aren't interested in challenging group think. You have just decided to taboo anything that you disagree with. You could have asked how we might make this not be treasonous. You could have asked is it worth the risk.
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That is... an enormous leap in reasoning and needlessly accusatory. Disagreeing with you once does not mean I am suddenly in favor of group think.

What I define as group think wrt MfD and its community is the phenomenon where players, for one reason or another, come to a conclusion or consensus about MfD and it becomes a part of the thread's 'culture' for lack of a better word. This can be harmful when players come to incorrect assumptions about the setting, but due to multiple people repeating the same belief over and over to each other the idea becomes uncontestable.

The following is a gross oversimplification of my recollection of what happened back before the retcon of Kagome killing Minami over clan secrets (if you want a more in depth reading feel free to dig through the thread; my memory never has been perfect). People were outraged that Kagome would kill a fellow Leaf ninja to maintain OPSEC for the Goketsu's secrets and then went on to claim that "there's no way that can be right". They went on to argue with the QMs about how this aspect of worldbuilding could not be true even though the QMs are the ultimate authorities on the setting they made and the bickering made everyone sad.

The only thing I can think of that should be taboo is treason because of how many times we've apologized in character about it and have promised not to do so again. Shouldn't that be taboo so we maintain Hazou's word? Can you give examples of me trying to silence talk about subjects I've disagreed with?

There is no way we can make contacting someone S-ranked from outside the village without Asuma's consent not treasonous. We were explicitly told not to do that after we returned from meeting with Itachi.

I currently believe it is not worth the risk. Since you put out the idea the onerous is on you, @Oneiros , to explain why committing treason (or treason adjacent actions) is worth more than other options. I admit that it will be nearly impossible to convince me because I associate treason with Hazou getting punished eventually. I personally can't think of an argument that would convince me to have him commit treason over other actions because if I could I would advocate for it. However, I try to remain openminded: there could be a sufficient argument that I just can't see.

[X] Lore Update
 
Veedrac said:
You cut Naruto, Atomu, Yuno, Haru, and Mei. Maybe even Tsunade. No need to upfront more complexity than the plan requires. Tsunade you could cut because she can be added later if initial contingencies don't suffice, but I don't care that much either way.
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I'd be more comfortable sending as many ninja searching as possible. Cast a wider net, just in case someone isn't where they normally are (ex: Tsunade isn't at the hospital, or at her favorite bar).

I'll admit to some small uneasiness when involving Naruto, but even if Naruto hates Hazou, they both love Kei. Naruto would begrudgingly work with Hazou if it meant saving Kei.

And if only Asuma is involved, then there's a chance Orochimaru may brush "the kid" off and ignore Asuma's orders. If Tsunade is also there to scowl and scold Orochimaru, then Orochimaru may be more willing to listen.

Edit: also, involving human ninja in the search party will help, just in case Hazou/Noburi don't have any Summons who have met Tsunade, Asuma, etc. I suspect they'll each have at least one --given who was the Dog/Toad Summoner before them, but just in case.

Veedrac said:
The plan warned Ami more explicitly, since she has the same bloodline. She'll figure it out anyway, but y'know, social points.
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Good idea. I don't care about the social points, buts Hazou and Ami are friends/allies/something, and it'd be in character for him to warn her.


Veedrac said:
The last point was proposed with less certainty. I wouldn't want to mess with Mari's plan when we can't coordinate with her.
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I added a line, framing it as a suggestion and to sanity check it. Also added a line about "if this passes, talk to Snowflake about it."

faflec said:
Hazou can't run, he should be getting other people to do it.
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Good point. Edited the line about Hazou going to Asuma, specifically. He's too slow for that. I have a runner being sent ahead of Hazou.
RandomOTP said:
[x] Action Plan: Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive, and Dodge
Words: tbd

  • Coordinate with Noburi to use Summons to find Kei, Ami, Asuma, Naruto, Tsunade, and Shikamaru.
    • Send Akane, Atomu, Yuno, Haru, and Mei as well.
    • Include warning to Ami, since she also has FS and could learn SC eventually
  • Go to Asuma, per Mari's lie. Send runner ahead (Summons/ninja, whichever's faster).
  • Have Kei flee to 7th Path immediately
  • Suggestion, to be sanity checked with Mari, Ami, Shika: Coordinate with Shika, Ami, and Kagome to fake paperwork, indicating that Snowflake's existence really is just a long-term Nara social experiment
    • Suggestion for fake project: deliberate and controlled personality drift via shadow clones.
    • Intent: make it seem Mari was fooled by/misunderstood the social experiment.
    • If Passed, Console: Snowflake, we're sorry for the illusion. We hate that we're diminishing your personhood, even as a front, on paper. This is in no way reflective of our feelings/thoughts regarding you.
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Paperclipped said:
Tell her to get Kei out of the hall, possibly replacing her with Snowflake, so that Kei can flee.
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Not quite sure I'm comfortable with using Snowflake as a scapegoat/distraction. Yeah, Snowflake's a Shadow Clone, but it also trivializes her existence into that of a meat shield. We know from the Isan Pangolin Grub Incident that, although she'll do them, Snowflake's not entirely comfortable with such actions.

Otherwise, your plan looks solid and will earn my vote if you remove this suggestion.

(Note: at work and on mobile, so my responses may be limited/delayed).
 
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