- Location
- Yes.
I question our ability to say "no" to Orochimaru.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Operative word being "our". The kid has averaged a jounin, elite jounin, or S-Class threatening or actively trying to murder him an average of at least once a month for years in between keeping his mind after seal-training, multiple Out exposures, and downloading Sage-forsaken Clarketech directly into his brain. He pissed himself stomping into the death aura of his personal boogyman to prevent a world war and was praised for it by his father, the most powerful person on the entire planet.
I have a sneaking suspicion that with the entire thread of out-worlders unanimously behind it he can pull it off. Hell, I'll actually vote for it. It'll probably mean global apocalypse, but what else is new?
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And Mari can give hazou some emotional support for the no.
One concern is if hazou takes more consequences from oro jonin aura it could give a severe. Hazou could preface the no with mentioning he is so injured if oro uses his aura again it could severely injure hazou. With all the social consequences of oro severely injuring a clan head that implies
One concern is if hazou takes more consequences from oro jonin aura it could give a severe. Hazou could preface the no with mentioning he is so injured if oro uses his aura again it could severely injure hazou. With all the social consequences of oro severely injuring a clan head that implies
- Location
- Yes.
Hazou already has one.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Jōnin aura? Hazō has an effective Resolve of 9. Orochimaru could give him a mildly disapproving look and Hazō would be Taken Out, meaning Orochimaru gets to decide what happens to him.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hazou who won't even get a TYS point from it anymore: "That all you got?" *passes out*
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm torn between Funny (because it is a funny way to say it), Informative (because it's useful info), Insightful (because it's true and useful), or simply Like. Bah. Have a Minori.
- Location
- USA
For some reason, no! She really should, though.
I am beginning to think that we might perhaps be mistreating our PCs.
- Location
- Potato land
I've been thinking about a comprehensive solution to this problem, and I think we need to deal. Ami did so, in a similar situation with much less effective leverage, and I'm inclined to trust her judgement on this.
Fundamentally, Orochimaru appears to be rational and pragmatic. Even though he puts up this whole pretense of being an unstable, murderous S-ranker, we know from observing his broader choices that he can absolutely function in the social context of a Hidden Village, if mostly be removing himself from it. He gives no real indication of enjoying bullying people - it's simply the most straightforward way of getting what he wants. He is far from stupid though, and being too forceful about this kind of thing is what got him labelled a missing-nin in the first place. Given that he returned when given the chance, and that he follows Asuma's orders, he places significant value on being a Leaf ninja.
As such, I don't even think anything immediately bad would happen to Hazou even if Mari hadn't interfered. If Orochimaru kidnaps a Clan Head in broad daylight, his operation will go up in flames. I suppose if he *really* wanted the Iron Nerve, he could make that trade, but I doubt we're close to that. It is, however, very advantageous for him that we believe he would, which is why he keeps playing into that stereotype. If anything, I'd expect him to try and obtain a different Kurosawa before making as huge a mess as killing Hazou would produce. Think about why we don't see Oro waltzing into the Uchiha compound to kidnap Sasuke, very similar reasons apply to us.
With that said, he can absolutely make life difficult in the medium and long term if he decides he really wants something from us. The only way to get around that is to make him a deal where our cooperation provides better outcomes than conflict. Aside from making the carrot of that arrangement enticing enough, we need a big enough stick to phase him. Just making clear that we're not going to just fold if he oversteps a boundary should be enough, I think - we can absolutely escalate from getting Asuma involved, to actually bombing his estate down to the 10th level, if pushed.
I actually suspect Oro might treat us better after we stand up to him. His treatment of Hazou in particular is a bit strange and incongruous with the rest of his behaviour. My suspicion is that he actually has some expectations of Hazou, but that we won't see any benefit of that until we can earn some of his respect - which is impossible if we keep being a doormat he can step on with impunity.
I am aware this is a risky move to make based on some amount of speculation, but I can't see any alternative. We either lean into our leverage and stand our ground, or run and leave Leaf behind.
Fundamentally, Orochimaru appears to be rational and pragmatic. Even though he puts up this whole pretense of being an unstable, murderous S-ranker, we know from observing his broader choices that he can absolutely function in the social context of a Hidden Village, if mostly be removing himself from it. He gives no real indication of enjoying bullying people - it's simply the most straightforward way of getting what he wants. He is far from stupid though, and being too forceful about this kind of thing is what got him labelled a missing-nin in the first place. Given that he returned when given the chance, and that he follows Asuma's orders, he places significant value on being a Leaf ninja.
As such, I don't even think anything immediately bad would happen to Hazou even if Mari hadn't interfered. If Orochimaru kidnaps a Clan Head in broad daylight, his operation will go up in flames. I suppose if he *really* wanted the Iron Nerve, he could make that trade, but I doubt we're close to that. It is, however, very advantageous for him that we believe he would, which is why he keeps playing into that stereotype. If anything, I'd expect him to try and obtain a different Kurosawa before making as huge a mess as killing Hazou would produce. Think about why we don't see Oro waltzing into the Uchiha compound to kidnap Sasuke, very similar reasons apply to us.
With that said, he can absolutely make life difficult in the medium and long term if he decides he really wants something from us. The only way to get around that is to make him a deal where our cooperation provides better outcomes than conflict. Aside from making the carrot of that arrangement enticing enough, we need a big enough stick to phase him. Just making clear that we're not going to just fold if he oversteps a boundary should be enough, I think - we can absolutely escalate from getting Asuma involved, to actually bombing his estate down to the 10th level, if pushed.
I actually suspect Oro might treat us better after we stand up to him. His treatment of Hazou in particular is a bit strange and incongruous with the rest of his behaviour. My suspicion is that he actually has some expectations of Hazou, but that we won't see any benefit of that until we can earn some of his respect - which is impossible if we keep being a doormat he can step on with impunity.
I am aware this is a risky move to make based on some amount of speculation, but I can't see any alternative. We either lean into our leverage and stand our ground, or run and leave Leaf behind.
Have I mentioned how we really need to occasionally invite Hidan to game night lest he invite himself again? It seems like something I would have brought up.
Also, exchange student program.
Sorry, don't know where that came from. I just had a sudden urge to mention it in case anybody had forgotten about it. Again.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In what way?
We had this conversation, Lai. Throwing around vague suggestions is how you put a stake in the ground for personal egoboo. Making a plan, or making a suggestion for an actionable change/addition to an existing plan, is how you make change in the world.
He came back to Leaf because I produced a credible threat to his basement. Beyond that, however, you are correct. I am on record as saying that he is the most predictable agent in the setting, and the most recent interactions reinforce the notion that he doesn't concern himself with petty gamesmanship if he believes that he can simply bulldoze through to his goal. Hence why I also recommended looking into the location of Tsunade, Asuma, Ami, and even Hidan. The bulldozer will change paths when it finds an easier one.
On the plus side, we know one thing he genuinely values: his basement. Leaf has been subjected to multiple catastrophies in recent years. Surely, it would not be a surprise if their local S-Class had their unoccupied compound suddenly obliterated, even if it was immediately after it's owner crossed a royal voting clan head in their own property who also happened to independently revolutionize warfare at least three times while creating the "oops, sky-rocks" jutsu while having an expert with paranoid notes of it's details. Hazou isn't exactly popular on the council, but who would back a notorious monster who isn't even on it against him?
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Adding onto this, we can absolutely make our stick a dead man's stick such that Oro can't just disappear some people and make it go away. If Hazou disappears, Mari is instructed to go to Asuma with evidence that Orochimaru has kidnapped a Clan Head for his clan secrets (such evidence may include a document signed with the official Goketsu seal dated to today stating that Hazou has an intention to meet with Orochimaru and do nothing else that would compromise his ability to be found for the rest of the day), if Mari disappears Shikamaru gets a letter saying that Orochimaru has taken a Clan Head and an Elite Jounin and cannot be trusted within these walls any longer, if Shikamaru disappears Kagome is given full permission to go Armageddon Initiative on everything Orochimaru.
Bonus points if we add in a layer of security that even Hazou doesn't know about, only that he told Mari to arrange for one, so that even with full coerced cooperation from Hazou nothing other than his safe return can defuse the ticking time bomb.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"Mari, have you seen Kagome-sensei around lately?"
I already offered to vote this round. I'm trying here, but I really do have very good reason to believe that the dice gods want my blood and shouldn't be given an opportunity to suck.
You have even illustrated a final defensive line of the Gouketsu. You forgot that there is a loyal and talented 'mere' civilian ready to orchestrate defense operations. Even snuncle won't see that coming.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
<3, in both the "sympathy" and the "I heart what you're doing, go you!" sense.
- Location
- Potato land
Allow me to rephrase: He treats Hazou as if he weren't completely just a disposable piece of meat, and that's how he treats most people. In particular, him consistently referring to Hazou as "nephew" is strange, coming from him. It's almost as if he's teasing Hazou, which isn't something we've seen him do to anyone else, and doesn't really line up with the model I have of him. Especially given that "nephew" is a direct reference to the relationship Oro had with Jiraiya, which we don't really understand at all. It was a serious shock to us when Oro first showed up and acted the way he did, given that Jiraiya went out of his way to get him pardoned and back into the fold. I remember thinking at the time that Jiraiya must've had a really different perspective on Oro than we do, which kind of makes sense in that Oro probably behaves very differently around people he considers his peers. Either way, we don't know, don't really have a good way to know (aside from maybe asking Tsunade?), and Oro keeps making this reference to his relationship with Jiraiya and Hazou's relationship with Jiraiya, and I don't know what it means.
It's possible he's just screwing with us, but then that means we're important enough to warrant screwing with, which is significant on its own. I suppose the point of this semi-rant is that I don't get it, and it puts me on edge. My gut feeling is that he expects something from us, but I don't know what, and guessing incorrectly could be very costly.
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I'm still waiting to wake up at night terrified of stalking beans *hint hint*
Gee, if only there was an independent third party we could ask about contemporaneous observations...
- Location
- Potato land
You know, I'm going to be honest here: I'm not a very smart man. Definitely bottom 30% of this thread, at a casual estimate. So if you want me to get your point, you've gotta be very obvious and explicit about what you mean.