He has no incentive to actually follow through and study the Great Seal.
Besides the literal end of the world??????????????

kill Hazou on a whim, face no consequences for doing so
If this were an option he was actually interested in it would've already happened. It is non-trivial for Orochimaru to kill clan heads because of the precedent it sets, and he likes the status quo he's in so he has no reason to disrupt that. Besides, Hazou negotiating with him by himself is basically pointless since Oro would win every social fight with intimidation 150. In this hypothetical (which I do not even necessarily agree with, I just thought it was worth bringing up for discussion again) Tsunade would be present for any such discussion
 
Hazou willingly tying himself to the vivisection table has to be the greatest idea I have ever heard. There is absolutely no better way to establish our characterization as a clueless moron.

But seriously, w h a t

Oro has no reputation for following rules regarding human experimentation. In fact, the opposite is true considering his first stint as a missing-nin. He has no incentive to actually follow through and study the Great Seal. I suspect likeliest outcome is that he would thank us for being stupider than a non-chakra sheep, kill Hazou on a whim, face no consequences for doing so, and then continue his original research undisturbed.

Not if Tsunade is involved. Even Jiraiya was scared of angry Tsunade. She literally got into screaming fights with her mentor, the hokage over plagues not respecting imaginary lines on a map. There is literally one single person who could march into the tower and say, "I'm the Hokage now" and seriously expect everybody to go along with it.
 
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Hazou willingly tying himself to the vivisection table has to be the greatest idea I have ever heard. There is absolutely no better way to establish our characterization as a clueless moron.

But seriously, w h a t

Oro has no reputation for following rules regarding human experimentation. In fact, the opposite is true considering his first stint as a missing-nin. He has no incentive to actually follow through and study the Great Seal. I suspect likeliest outcome is that he would thank us for being stupider than a non-chakra sheep, kill Hazou on a whim, face no consequences for doing so, and then continue his original research undisturbed.
Orochimaru has in fact spent his time in Leaf post-BotG being conspicuously compliant with the new administration's wishes, even if Asuma isn't inclined to make those wishes strenuous. In fact, Orochimaru is presently benefiting from a program Ami set up in which he gets a free supply of fresh bodies without anybody even complaining.

Now, in the context of that, consider the following: under the assumption that Orochimaru is interested in exploring the Iron Nerve bloodline, we are coming directly to him with intent on full cooperation on whatever he wants from us as long as he can patch us up after the fact. We are also, notably, not the center of his universe; even under the assumption that he values studying our bloodline, it's highly unlikely he would break his streak of playing nice with Asuma for the sake of getting a little bit more of it than we're already offering him.

Of course, this assumes we have the appropriate measures to keep him from going 'pre-existing complications arose, I tried to save him but it was too late, so sad, anyways-', which is where Tsunade and a few other safeguards come in (such as: we make it clear to him that other clan heads expect nothing to go wrong here because of his incredible medical talents, conveying to him that if he tries something everyone will know it at least informally). I have full confidence that we can arrange for a situation where the probability of sabotage becomes minimal.

And here's the best part: once he's vivisected us, he's already gotten what he wants from us! We don't have to fear him stealing us away in the dead of night, or orchestrating something like Mari's genjutsu scenario, because our utility as a test subject has been dramatically diminished on account of most of it being fulfilled. Thus I believe this is not only a pretty safe action to take, but in fact safer than doing nothing.

I don't push too hard for it because I know a lot of people still hope that if we don't interact with him he'll forget we exist and there's not much point in long protracted arguments about things we aren't in a position to implement, but I believe I have very solid grounding for my position and have yet to been persuaded otherwise the times this has come up. As far as I can tell in my honest pursuit of knowledge, this path is the best possible approach to the Orochimaru problem, better even than the status quo of trying to ignore him.
 
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Besides the literal end of the world??????????????
If Oro doesn't care before, he won't care after. This won't make him care one way or the other
Not if Tsunade is involved. Even Jiraiya was scared of angry Tsunade. She literally got into screaming fights with her mentor, the hokage over plagues not respecting imaginary lines on a map. There is literally one single person who could march into the tower and say, "I'm the Hokage now" and seriously expect everybody to go along with it.
You're assuming Tsunade would care if we choose to commit suicide by Oro, most likely she'll tell Hazou he's being unbelievably stupid and refuse to play along. Possibly throw him in volcano for being possessed.
Of course, this assumes we have the appropriate measures to keep him from going 'pre-existing complications arose, I tried to save him but it was too late, so sad, anyways-', which is where Tsunade and a few other safeguards come in (such as: we make it clear to him that other clan heads expect nothing to go wrong here because of his incredible medical talents, conveying to him that if he tries something everyone will know it at least informally). I have full confidence that we can arrange for a situation where the probability of sabotage becomes minimal.
The "pre-existing conditions happened" scenario is exactly what I had in mind. Just enough plausible deniability that no one is going to go toe-to-toe with Oro over it. Asuma would be pissed probably, but he'll rationalize it away as being Hazou's fault for putting himself in that position in the first place, which it 100% would be.

Frankly, we cannot minimize the probability of sabotage, the only person who could possibly contradict Oro about this is Tsunade and I don't think she cares that much about Hazou to bother. Do you really think Tsunade would kill (or attempt to kill) Oro over Hazou's life? I don't, she's got better things to do.

Edit: I wanted to expand on the last part a little bit. Imagine that Hazou establishes all of the suggested safeguards, Tsunade, Clan Heads, ninja at large. Hazou dies anyway, Oro says "pre-existing conditions happened". Now our allies (in the best case Tsunade, ISC, Asuma, Goketsu, and KEI) are faced with the choice to attack Oro or continue on as before. If they attack, many of them will die and Oro will almost certainly get away, if they don't he'll continue to serve as a deterrent for Leaf. The best option is for them to accept the cover story, no matter their private feelings. Oro knows all of this and he can act on it in advance.

This might work, but I think it has a solid 50+% chance of ending in death, that's way way too high for my taste
 
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Both Orochimaru and Tsunade can be safely assumed to know about the Great Seal and to know whether the other is involved - this has certainly made it into the Leaf intelligence briefings and they certainly both get them, as they're Sannin. If Tsunade thought that Orochimaru needed to show up to meetings, she would have made the appropriate arrangements. Her advice to us on the topic of Orochimaru was extremely clear: be boring. I think that there's a very real risk he might find us interesting if we ask him for help or advice about this.

Moreover: unless he has made a conscious decision to be ignorant about this sort of thing - and that seems like the sort of decision we should respect - I can't imagine what would need to be true for our polite request that he take an interest to be the thing that tips the scales for him. I'd vote for a plan where we politely ask Kabuto to consider whether or not it's worth mentioning, while we also bring him a snack and try to find out more about the SSSSSS, but attempting to interact with Orochimaru directly? Haaard pass.
And here's the best part: once he's vivisected us, he's already gotten what he wants from us! We don't have to fear him stealing us away in the dead of night, or orchestrating something like Mari's genjutsu scenario, because our utility as a test subject has been dramatically diminished on account of most of it being fulfilled.
Alternate scenario: he learns plenty in his nondestructive investigations of the Iron Nerve, but there's far more that he could do with destructive tests. He's more interested in us than ever.

I think that the strength of the 'ignore him' strategy is, at least partially, that its outcomes are as low-variance as possible given someone who we cannot model well. They aren't necessarily great outcomes - we can't attempt to leverage his tremendous and useful skillset for fear of attracting his attention - but thus far, it seems like he's happy to leave us alone as long as we don't bother him, and any deviation from this pattern increases the spread of outcomes dramatically IMO.
 
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If Oro doesn't care before, he won't care after. This won't make him care one way or the other

You're assuming Tsunade would care if we choose to commit suicide by Oro, most likely she'll tell Hazou he's being unbelievably stupid and refuse to play along. Possibly throw him in volcano for being possessed.

The "pre-existing conditions happened" scenario is exactly what I had in mind. Just enough plausible deniability that no one is going to go toe-to-toe with Oro over it. Asuma would be pissed probably, but he'll rationalize it away as being Hazou's fault for putting himself in that position in the first place, which it 100% would be.

Frankly, we cannot minimize the probability of sabotage, the only person who could possibly contradict Oro about this is Tsunade and I don't think she cares that much about Hazou to bother. Do you really think Tsunade would kill (or attempt to kill) Oro over Hazou's life? I don't, she's got better things to do.

Edit: I wanted to expand on the last part a little bit. Imagine that Hazou establishes all of the suggested safeguards, Tsunade, Clan Heads, ninja at large. Hazou dies anyway, Oro says "pre-existing conditions happened". Now our allies (in the best case Tsunade, ISC, Asuma, Goketsu, and KEI) are faced with the choice to attack Oro or continue on as before. If they attack, many of them will die and Oro will almost certainly get away, if they don't he'll continue to serve as a deterrent for Leaf. The best option is for them to accept the cover story, no matter their private feelings. Oro knows all of this and he can act on it in advance.

This might work, but I think it has a solid 50+% chance of ending in death, that's way way too high for my taste
I think your model of the safeguards and Orochimaru's response to them is incomplete. You say that the safeguards won't work because nobody would actually pull the trigger on trying to kill Orochimaru over Hazou, but even supposing that's true I think it misses some very key points.

Orochimaru has a finite amount of social capital in Leaf. Sure, he's a key element in keeping other villages from attacking Leaf in its moment of weakness, but too much trouble and it'll be harder to keep Leaf safe with him around than without. There is an economy at play here, and Orochimaru knows it. It's why he's very deliberately playing by the rules and accepting cooperative bargains that reduce the need for him to do things costly in reputation. He's no fool, and he knows that his time in Leaf will go much more smoothly if he doesn't make people more nervous about him than they already are.

Hazou is a Clan Head who has very recently demonstrated enough support across Leaf to make the Hokage back down on executing him for obvious treason. Even if accidentallying Hazou isn't enough on its own to get Asuma to pull the trigger, it's an extremely steep cost on a currency he's clearly been paying attention to. If he's willing to accidentally one Clan Head in metaphorical broad daylight, even if it's just Hazou, every other Clan Head will feel significantly less comfortable with him in their village.

This isn't consistent with the playbook Orochimaru's been operating from since his return. Again, we are not the center of his universe, we're just one more bloodline to look at, who happens to be attached to a person it'd be very inconvenient to accidentally. I could also mention the outside chance our pseudo-familial connection matters some to him, but I don't think I actually need to.

(Also, on the flipside, imagine how much more comfortable it would make people if someone like Hazou willingly entrusted themselves to Orochimaru and he honored that trust? That's valuable social currency in and of itself, in a village that still isn't too comfortable with his presence)

And if somehow none of that sways him, if Tsunade's there then her presence as a potential S-Rank fight is deterrent in its own right. Sure, maybe she wouldn't actually pull the trigger if Oro went for the kill, but maybe she would, and is that a risk worth taking? We're just a kid with a bloodline, after all, who's already giving 90% of what he could ever want out of us of our own free will.

When I think about Orochimaru's perspective I see two options: the first is taking the opportunity presented to him on a silver platter, showing off how reasonable and not-monstrous he is to the rest of Leaf while getting a good research opportunity in the process for no cost. The second option is to risk an S-Rank fight in his home and throw a ton of social currency down the drain, making future cooperation harder and bringing him significantly closer to the point where Asuma decides it's just not worth it anymore, all for the sake of the 10% of value not given to him for free. Given how he's been behaving since he rejoined Leaf, I legitimately can't see him taking the second option over the first.
Alternate scenario: he learns plenty in his nondestructive investigations of the Iron Nerve, but there's far more that he could do with destructive tests. He's more interested in us than ever.

I think that the strength of the 'ignore him' strategy is, at least partially, that its outcomes are as low-variance as possible given someone who we cannot model well. They aren't necessarily great outcomes - we can't attempt to leverage his tremendous and useful skillset for fear of attracting his attention - but thus far, it seems like he's happy to leave us alone as long as we don't bother him, and any deviation from this pattern increases the spread of outcomes dramatically IMO.
You're right that this does escalate the timeframe, brings us to the conclusion of the Orochimaru fear arc sooner one way or the other, but I would advise against getting complacent with the assumption that since he hasn't done anything yet that we're safe from him. An idle worry I sometimes toss around is that we're just somewhere on his to-do list, and once he strikes off everything above us he'll find some way to get us that doesn't even cost him any rep. Maybe we pick a chakra beast suppression mission one day for some casual Uplift and just never come back because Oro snuck out and abducted us and nobody will ever know. Going to him makes it a battle on our terms, where we get to deny him any opportunity to avoid broadcasting his choice to all of Leaf.

And I recognize that there's a chance that the potential that experimentation on the Iron Nerve will reveal potential death experiments that raises his interest rather than lowers them, but personally I find that a rather unlikely chance. And not to mention, once we have public vivisection dealings with Orochimaru, it becomes that much easier to suspect him if we disappear mysteriously, meaning that even in the unlikely case that he becomes more interested in us despite already exhausting most research potential I don't think the actual probabilistic risk would change much. Thus, overall the probability distribution spans more or less from 'unambiguous win' to 'uneasy neutrality', which still makes it a win in my book even if we don't get anything in return.

Overall I do hear your concerns but I just don't think they hold up when shined against what we actually know about Orochimaru and Konoha. My position is not that there's a zero percent chance this goes wrong, but rather that it's safer than you might expect, and maybe even safer than what we're currently doing. I know I'm working an uphill battle here since the default position is to avoid the scary essie, but I hope you can see that I genuinely believe this is not as dangerous as initial instincts might suggest. Between the list of deterrences we can establish and Orochimaru's incentives and known behaviour I think it's actually highly likely that we survive.
 
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Overall I do hear your concerns but I just don't think they hold up when shined against what we actually know about Orochimaru and Konoha. My position is not that there's a zero percent chance this goes wrong, but rather that it's safer than you might expect, and maybe even safer than what we're currently doing.
I think your position is self-coherent but fails to account for the advice of the living person who knows Orochimaru best in the world - namely, be boring. What you're suggesting flies in the face of that, and that's part of my concern.

The other part of my concern is where you're saying it might be safer than what we're doing. If you want to say that the average of your strategy is better than what we're doing, sure, but I'm more concerned with standard deviation.
 
I think your model of the safeguards and Orochimaru's response to them is incomplete. You say that the safeguards won't work because nobody would actually pull the trigger on trying to kill Orochimaru over Hazou, but even supposing that's true I think it misses some very key points.

Orochimaru has a finite amount of social capital in Leaf. Sure, he's a key element in keeping other villages from attacking Leaf in its moment of weakness, but too much trouble and it'll be harder to keep Leaf safe with him around than without. There is an economy at play here, and Orochimaru knows it. It's why he's very deliberately playing by the rules and accepting cooperative bargains that reduce the need for him to do things costly in reputation. He's no fool, and he knows that his time in Leaf will go much more smoothly if he doesn't make people more nervous about him than they already are.

Hazou is a Clan Head who has very recently demonstrated enough support across Leaf to make the Hokage back down on executing him for obvious treason. Even if accidentallying Hazou isn't enough on its own to get Asuma to pull the trigger, it's an extremely steep cost on a currency he's clearly been paying attention to. If he's willing to accidentally one Clan Head in metaphorical broad daylight, even if it's just Hazou, every other Clan Head will feel significantly less comfortable with him in their village.

This isn't consistent with the playbook Orochimaru's been operating from since his return. Again, we are not the center of his universe, we're just one more bloodline to look at, who happens to be attached to a person it'd be very inconvenient to accidentally. I could also mention the outside chance our pseudo-familial connection matters some to him, but I don't think I actually need to.

(Also, on the flipside, imagine how much more comfortable it would make people if someone like Hazou willingly entrusted themselves to Orochimaru and he honored that trust? That's valuable social currency in and of itself, in a village that still isn't too comfortable with his presence)

You're assuming that that the reputational loss to Oro over Hazou dying on the table would be large, I do not agree. I think it much more likely that the public at large and Asuma upon hearing that Hazou agreed to his own vivisection, will shake their heads and go "I always knew that young Lord Goketsu would get himself killed one day". Given Oro's reputation already I don't think he's losing too much here, esp if he can generate a plausible cover story that makes accepting his version of events easy. Hazou is a polarizing figure, some Clans might like Oro more for taking out the trash.

And if somehow none of that sways him, if Tsunade's there then her presence as a potential S-Rank fight is deterrent in its own right. Sure, maybe she wouldn't actually pull the trigger if Oro went for the kill, but maybe she would, and is that a risk worth taking? We're just a kid with a bloodline, after all, who's already giving 90% of what he could ever want out of us of our own free will.

When I think about Orochimaru's perspective I see two options: the first is taking the opportunity presented to him on a silver platter, showing off how reasonable and not-monstrous he is to the rest of Leaf while getting a good research opportunity in the process for no cost. The second option is to risk an S-Rank fight in his home and throw a ton of social currency down the drain, making future cooperation harder and bringing him significantly closer to the point where Asuma decides it's just not worth it anymore, all for the sake of the 10% of value not given to him for free. Given how he's been behaving since he rejoined Leaf, I legitimately can't see him taking the second option over the first.

I think that 90% is a drastic overstatement, we have no idea what Oro wants to do to Hazou, that's part of the problem. Could be we're offering 20%, we just don't know.

I don't think Oro places a very high priority on showing off how reasonable and non-monstrous he is. I think he prioritizes research, if that research involves Hazou's death, he will kill Hazou. No question about it. We don't know enough about his priorities to predict him, so we shouldn't try.
 
So been thinking about one major advantage that the arachnid scroll has over all of the other candidates we have. Since our lead is contained in a very specific area the time period required to search for it will be very small. We go in hit the base and the search the island. If it's not their we don't have any additional leads so will have only invested a day or so on mission. Where as every other scroll could be any where in a large area that could require weeks to months to find
 
So been thinking about one major advantage that the arachnid scroll has over all of the other candidates we have. Since our lead is contained in a very specific area the time period required to search for it will be very small. We go in hit the base and the search the island. If it's not their we don't have any additional leads so will have only invested a day or so on mission. Where as every other scroll could be any where in a large area that could require weeks to months to find

Isn't the same true for Kraken?
 
You're assuming Tsunade would care if we choose to commit suicide by Oro, most likely she'll tell Hazou he's being unbelievably stupid and refuse to play along. Possibly throw him in volcano for being possessed.

Oh, come now. He's the only living being to not only get taken in by another village, but legally adopted by her notoriously commitment-phobic brother-in-arms over not one, but two world wars and currently presents the best opportunity to prevent yet another while manifesting her goals better than anybody else alive, which he only is because she personally tended to him after he scrambled his brains again downloading a god-seal straight into his brain in an attempt to save the entire multiverse from being eaten by primordial carnivorous monstrosities. She'll never say it, but she's got a soft spot for the kid and a residual sense of duty to keep Oro on a leash.


I think your model of the safeguards and Orochimaru's response to them is incomplete. You say that the safeguards won't work because nobody would actually pull the trigger on trying to kill Orochimaru over Hazou, but even supposing that's true I think it misses some very key points.

Orochimaru has a finite amount of social capital in Leaf. Sure, he's a key element in keeping other villages from attacking Leaf in its moment of weakness, but too much trouble and it'll be harder to keep Leaf safe with him around than without. There is an economy at play here, and Orochimaru knows it. It's why he's very deliberately playing by the rules and accepting cooperative bargains that reduce the need for him to do things costly in reputation. He's no fool, and he knows that his time in Leaf will go much more smoothly if he doesn't make people more nervous about him than they already are.

Hazou is a Clan Head who has very recently demonstrated enough support across Leaf to make the Hokage back down on executing him for obvious treason. Even if accidentallying Hazou isn't enough on its own to get Asuma to pull the trigger, it's an extremely steep cost on a currency he's clearly been paying attention to. If he's willing to accidentally one Clan Head in metaphorical broad daylight, even if it's just Hazou, every other Clan Head will feel significantly less comfortable with him in their village.

This isn't consistent with the playbook Orochimaru's been operating from since his return. Again, we are not the center of his universe, we're just one more bloodline to look at, who happens to be attached to a person it'd be very inconvenient to accidentally. I could also mention the outside chance our pseudo-familial connection matters some to him, but I don't think I actually need to.

(Also, on the flipside, imagine how much more comfortable it would make people if someone like Hazou willingly entrusted themselves to Orochimaru and he honored that trust? That's valuable social currency in and of itself, in a village that still isn't too comfortable with his presence)

And if somehow none of that sways him, if Tsunade's there then her presence as a potential S-Rank fight is deterrent in its own right. Sure, maybe she wouldn't actually pull the trigger if Oro went for the kill, but maybe she would, and is that a risk worth taking? We're just a kid with a bloodline, after all, who's already giving 90% of what he could ever want out of us of our own free will.

When I think about Orochimaru's perspective I see two options: the first is taking the opportunity presented to him on a silver platter, showing off how reasonable and not-monstrous he is to the rest of Leaf while getting a good research opportunity in the process for no cost. The second option is to risk an S-Rank fight in his home and throw a ton of social currency down the drain, making future cooperation harder and bringing him significantly closer to the point where Asuma decides it's just not worth it anymore, all for the sake of the 10% of value not given to him for free. Given how he's been behaving since he rejoined Leaf, I legitimately can't see him taking the second option over the first.

You're right that this does escalate the timeframe, brings us to the conclusion of the Orochimaru fear arc sooner one way or the other, but I would advise against getting complacent with the assumption that since he hasn't done anything yet that we're safe from him. An idle worry I sometimes toss around is that we're just somewhere on his to-do list, and once he strikes off everything above us he'll find some way to get us that doesn't even cost him any rep. Maybe we pick a chakra beast suppression mission one day for some casual Uplift and just never come back because Oro snuck out and abducted us and nobody will ever know. Going to him makes it a battle on our terms, where we get to deny him any opportunity to avoid broadcasting his choice to all of Leaf.

And I recognize that there's a chance that the potential that experimentation on the Iron Nerve will reveal potential death experiments that raises his interest rather than lowers them, but personally I find that a rather unlikely chance. And not to mention, once we have public vivisection dealings with Orochimaru, it becomes that much easier to suspect him if we disappear mysteriously, meaning that even in the unlikely case that he becomes more interested in us despite already exhausting most research potential I don't think the actual probabilistic risk would change much. Thus, overall the probability distribution spans more or less from 'unambiguous win' to 'uneasy neutrality', which still makes it a win in my book even if we don't get anything in return.

Overall I do hear your concerns but I just don't think they hold up when shined against what we actually know about Orochimaru and Konoha. My position is not that there's a zero percent chance this goes wrong, but rather that it's safer than you might expect, and maybe even safer than what we're currently doing. I know I'm working an uphill battle here since the default position is to avoid the scary essie, but I hope you can see that I genuinely believe this is not as dangerous as initial instincts might suggest. Between the list of deterrences we can establish and Orochimaru's incentives and known behaviour I think it's actually highly likely that we survive.

This I find convincing, and it's not as if we haven't done worse to Hazou than "get strapped to a table and use the Iron Nerve to avoid literally screaming your lungs out while a psychopath meticulously disassembles and reassembles your corporeal form."


So been thinking about one major advantage that the arachnid scroll has over all of the other candidates we have. Since our lead is contained in a very specific area the time period required to search for it will be very small. We go in hit the base and the search the island. If it's not their we don't have any additional leads so will have only invested a day or so on mission. Where as every other scroll could be any where in a large area that could require weeks to months to find

Summoning scrolls are neigh-indestructible and float on lakes of boiling glass...
 
You're assuming that that the reputational loss to Oro over Hazou dying on the table would be large, I do not agree. I think it much more likely that the public at large and Asuma upon hearing that Hazou agreed to his own vivisection, will shake their heads and go "I always knew that young Lord Goketsu would get himself killed one day". Given Oro's reputation already I don't think he's losing too much here, esp if he can generate a plausible cover story that makes accepting his version of events easy. Hazou is a polarizing figure, some Clans might like Oro more for taking out the trash.
Hazou is, at the end of the day, still a Clan Head with demonstrated vast support from all sides of Leaf. We showed that when we got killboxed and (from everyone else's perspective) just walked out of it. It's not about Hazou personally that would make this so costly, it's about the precedent about Orochimaru moving against well-supported Clan Heads if he feels like it. Nobody will buy that Hazou's death was actually an accident, and if he's willing to basically announce to the world that he's dissecting Clan Heads now then he's essentially announced that nobody is safe. It's honestly already really bold to assume that the Clans wouldn't be preparing open war simply for their own survival at that point, let alone that they'd just roll over and say that open season on Leaf's ruling oligarchs is perfectly fine if it's Hazou that gets hunted first.

And again, this isn't his playbook, and we aren't that important. Orochimaru's been cooperating with Leaf and not making scary moves and this is the mother of all scary moves over a fraction more research on a single bloodline out of the hundreds that are out there, one which was already offered up for his examination for free.
I think that 90% is a drastic overstatement, we have no idea what Oro wants to do to Hazou, that's part of the problem. Could be we're offering 20%, we just don't know.

I don't think Oro places a very high priority on showing off how reasonable and non-monstrous he is. I think he prioritizes research, if that research involves Hazou's death, he will kill Hazou. No question about it. We don't know enough about his priorities to predict him, so we shouldn't try.
Personally I think you underestimate how much Orochimaru can get done without outright killing his patient. In appropriately controlled medical conditions, with the full force of his mednin jutsu on hand, I fully expect Orochimaru could bring Hazou within a handspan of dying in a dozen different ways and reliably bring him back each time. Honestly I think 10% is an overestimate of how much potential value Oro might see in death-based experiments relative to ones he can do with Hazou alive.
I think your position is self-coherent but fails to account for the advice of the living person who knows Orochimaru best in the world - namely, be boring. What you're suggesting flies in the face of that, and that's part of my concern.

The other part of my concern is where you're saying it might be safer than what we're doing. If you want to say that the average of your strategy is better than what we're doing, sure, but I'm more concerned with standard deviation.
Is boring really on the table, though? Remember how we caught his interest when he flexed his Aura at us and we behaved strangely? Think about what Orochimaru will think if he hears how Sage-made seals have had bizarre interactions with our bloodline, or what he'll think when we inevitably start innovating near his area of expertise?

Heck, is he really going to think us boring once he learns that we're trying to crack the secrets of life and death?

No, trying to be boring only buys us time before he starts giving us his attention, and not as much time as I think you're hoping for. And as I outlined above, his interest is significantly more dangerous if it's in an uncontrolled context, if he's waiting for a chance to forcibly extract value from us rather than being given what he wants but under a spotlight of scrutiny.

Honestly the variance that leads me to say it might be safer than doing nothing largely lies on the 'do nothing' end. I don't have many variables to work with on the question of whether we're on his to-do list and at some point in the future we'll just not come back from mission. I feel like I have a good grasp of the risk involved in volunteering, I'm just not certain how likely 'do nothing' results in a preventable game over.
 
Personally I think you underestimate how much Orochimaru can get done without outright killing his patient. In appropriately controlled medical conditions, with the full force of his mednin jutsu on hand, I fully expect Orochimaru could bring Hazou within a handspan of dying in a dozen different ways and reliably bring him back each time. Honestly I think 10% is an overestimate of how much potential value Oro might see in death-based experiments relative to ones he can do with Hazou alive.

Dude literally designed a fully automated, custom-lifeform mediated, skin-farm which kept its victim alive for over a decade without any upkeep. That was on level one, which veteran ANBU agents took a single look at, vomited, and sealed the entire facility up without even bothering to attempt a rescue. If he wants somebody alive they will be alive whether they like it or not.
 
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I think the voluntary vivisection is a good idea. I'm considering whether we do this before or after we heal severe consequences.
Before:
Pros: possible free super healing post vivisection, possible unwanted upgrade
Cons: increased chance of death, possible lasting injuries
After:
Pros: less risk of death,
Cons: our time in the hospital might be extended
 
I hope that I am not the only one concerned about what the rest of Leaf will think about us cutting a deal with their resident bogeyman.
 
I hope that I am not the only one concerned about what the rest of Leaf will think about us cutting a deal with their resident bogeyman.
Leaf: Ah yes. The Hazou in its natural environment, doing something incredibly risky that if it works will give incredible benefits and if it fails will kill him.
 
I'm anti meeting with Oro. Mostly cause I don't think we as a player base are well suited to writing plans dealing with him.

If I could guarantee that @Noumero and maybe a few other people had creative control I'd be down for it though
 
I mean, what can stop us from proposing it if Orochimaru comes from us? This said, personally i would prefer to not give Hazou another terrifying trauma.
 
I think the voluntary vivisection is a good idea. I'm considering whether we do this before or after we heal severe consequences.
Before:
Pros: possible free super healing post vivisection, possible unwanted upgrade
Cons: increased chance of death, possible lasting injuries
After:
Pros: less risk of death,
Cons: our time in the hospital might be extended

"Hey boss? I might miss the next check-in. I'm going to let my uncle dissect me awake and screaming looking for ways to trigger the formation of god-eyes out of my exotic magic biology. There might be a recuperation period."


I hope that I am not the only one concerned about what the rest of Leaf will think about us cutting a deal with their resident bogeyman.

"Hazou just walked into Orochimaru's lair and lived to walk back out."

"Whatever. Add it to the legend."


I'm anti meeting with Oro. Mostly cause I don't think we as a player base are well suited to writing plans dealing with him.

If I could guarantee that @Noumero and maybe a few other people had creative control I'd be down for it though

That's a smart cow problem. If that the player base is incapable of recognizing smart cows is a separate issue.
 
Hazou is, at the end of the day, still a Clan Head with demonstrated vast support from all sides of Leaf. We showed that when we got killboxed and (from everyone else's perspective) just walked out of it.

"Vast"? Shikamaru, Ino, Keiko, Mari and Ami helped us. And I doubt most people bought the convienient genjutsu excuse.

Orochimaru walked out on Leaf when it had a lot more powerful people around and also betrayed Akatsuki and survived. Nagoto called him "the best of us" because of that. He isn't going to cause himself any problems by dumbly killing Hazou, he can just wait and kill him weeks/months/years later. (Or he can just abduct another Kurosawa if he really cared)

We also asked him to become his apprentice, if he wanted to study Hazou or "accident" him, he could just agree to finally train or work with Hazou.

I really doubt he is that interested in our bloodlines in the first place and if people want to work with him we really need to offer him something of interest. Vivisection might or might not be survivable, but there are other things he cares about. Maybe a shitty copy of the Great Seal that he probably got for free just doesn't cut it.

Besides the literal end of the world??????????????

According to the spider empress.

He pretty much joked about a possible plague and called it a test for Hiashi, if he consideres the Dragons not that dangerous for whatever reason, then he will do nothing for now.
 
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Oro is the most predictable character in the entire setting. He has a very simple goal: learn the everything. Even his quest for immortality is just an instrumental sub-goal of that. He has zero patience for pretense and he is the smartest person in the room, so everything he says and does comes down to whether or not it facilitates that. Present him with a novel avenue of investigation? Awesome. He will probably deal fairly with you on the grounds that somebody who can facilitate his goals once can probably do it again and a mutually beneficial relationship is a convenient incentive to continue. Waste his time on something he has already considered and discarded? Hope you enjoy the mindworms spending a thousand years slowly distilling the interesting parts of your individuality into convenient chakra pearls.
 
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