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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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faflec said:
Could Asuma request the Hyuga turn over their scrip? Failure to do so suggests they've given it to the Hagoromo, though it's not a
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It is important that we find a different way to accomplish that than an order by Asuma to turn over the scrip.
Hinata and her advisors are not dumb. They will know where this order comes from regardless of whether they have or have not done what we think they did. If they are forced to turn over this scrip to Asuma while they did nothing wrong and Hazō couldn't even be bothered to talk to Hinata once, that will create a large rift between them.
Lailoken said:
drug dealers
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I don't remember this one. What am I forgetting?
MadScientist said:
What is up with that useless plot of land? Who owned it before? What can they tell us about it?
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Wasn't the second already answered? I thought the Hagoromo bought it from the Amori with scrip.
 
Sir Stompy said:
There's no circumstantial evidence to suggest that the Hyuuga were behind the bank run, unlike the Hags. I don't understand the thread's fixation with them as the culprit. Haru is saying no. I am mildly confident they didn't do it. I think we should recognize that they very well might not have had anything to do with it.
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Pharos said:
Or the Hagoromo forged the scrip, and the Hyuga still have it.

If that's the case, the Hyuga are out a lot of money, and would probably want to get back at the party responsible: the Hagoromo. It all depends on what the Hyuga did with their scrip.
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I propose asking Hinata directly as Clan Head to Clan Head why she acquired the script and where it is now. I assume that script is safely in Hyuuga coffers and Hinata didn't try to cash it as a sign of goodwill.

The thing we want to remember about Hyuuga is that they place a lot of value in how they are perceived. They cannot afford to side with the Clan of foreigners directly, just as they could not vote for concubine law. Hence, if they (or Hinata personally) want to help us, they need to limit themselves to actions not observed by other Clans/civilians.

I want to remind that the only reason Noburi has his happy marriage is that Hinata informed us that Yuno is going to accept Neji's offer.

May we try communicating with Hinata first and move on to asking Hokage to force them to show the script only if that fails? Pretty please?
 
MadScientist said:
Find out what the Amori know. Find some way to legally coerce the clan head into betraying his co-conspirators. Is there anything he loves that we can take control of and threaten to make him do what we want? Do we have, or can we get, any really good blackmail material? Could we use the Reid Interrogation Technique to trick him into confessing to the Hokage?
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We have a deal (5 adoption slots and we do some land clearing for their grape land) with the Amori, unless this was their attempt to get out of the remaining deal, they are probably innocent:
eaglejarl said:
Gaku consulted his notes, probably more to buy a moment's composure than from need. "Lady Mari engaged with the Amori. She acquired five adoption tickets in exchange for the grape land that we purchased, plus a promise that we will clear three hectares of their choice at our expense sometime within the next year, precise details to be negotiated in good faith. We are getting their original two ticket for this year, plus another that they will purchase from their own resources, plus the two that they will receive at the new year."
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Lady Amori also does seem reasonable enough here (not insulting Keiko and then just abstaining for the vote):
Velorien said:
"There's no call for that kind of language," Lady Amori hastily interrupted. "And come now, Lord Hagoromo, a man of your years has no business getting so incensed at the passing follies of youth. Which of us has not had such moments of confusion in our early years? Let us revisit this issue in a few years' time, and Lady Nara will be the first to admit her error. For now, you should be the voice of patience and wisdom."
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So we can just talk to her about the land (why they had it in the first place, why Hagoromo would want it, etc) and if she knows anything about the original rumors.

And while she could be working with Hyuuga/Hagoromo, we did buy her vote for the election and she said this about Hiashi:

eaglejarl said:
"Lord Sarutobi has never dealt falsely with the Amori nor sought to oppress us. We stand willingly at his side."
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That's a bit more than: "I vote for Asuma".
 
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TarzanNn said:
I propose asking Hinata directly as Clan Head to Clan Head why she acquired the script and where it is now. I assume that script is safely in Hyuuga coffers and Hinata didn't try to cash it as a sign of goodwill.

The thing we want to remember about Hyuuga is that they place a lot of value in how they are perceived. They cannot afford to side with the Clan of foreigners directly, just as they could not vote for concubine law. Hence, if they (or Hinata personally) want to help us, they need to limit themselves to actions not observed by other Clans/civilians.

I want to remind that the only reason Noburi has his happy marriage is that Hinata informed us that Yuno is going to accept Neji's offer.

May we try communicating with Hinata first and move on to asking Hokage to force them to show the script only if that fails? Pretty please?
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I like this, unfortunately at the moment we're bound to lose any kind of social conflict b/c of all the consequences. Still might be worth it anyway.
 
We could ask Akane to meet with her. What are her social stats like, compared to Hazō's while crippled?
 
I'm not sure talking to the Hyuga is going to accomplish anything. The update reads to me like it's confusing we even consider them a suspect. Now ninja stuff means that isn't as clear as it may seem, but we know for a fact that our scrip was trivial to copy - there was absolutely no anti-copying measures in place.

Considering the Hagomoro were seen spending scrip despite no apparent origin it makes them the prime suspect for simply printing more of it when they realized how easy it was to copy.

(Seriously, we didn't even number them!)

The good news is if we can prove they printed a single scrip Asuma is probably going to smack them with at least half the debt, both for continuing after we'd been told go cut it out and because he doesn't care who actually printed what. Just that we both get the lesson stamped on us.

The question is did the Hagomoro destroy their forged seal press or is it still around? People can be quite arrogant - and having a printing press that prints checks people you hate have to pay for? Why would you ever get rid of that before you've milked every conceivable ryo from it.

And a final thought: the Hagomoro probably started the rumor by simply having civilians going around talking about how they had entire rooms full of scrip while spending it on everything. It would explain why the source is so impossible to find - it was just people extrapolating from the hagomoro having a mountain of the stuff.
 
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Rafin said:
We could ask Akane to meet with her. What are her social stats like, compared to Hazō's while crippled?
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The problem is that Akane doesn't understand what our thought process is. If she doesn't internalize that the hyuga are a valid suspect she is gonna do a poor job of it. Alternatively this could be good, if she thinks we send her in a diplomatic mission she is not going to have to deceive the "I can literally see your brain" clan,while also recompiling information.
 
Eisenhelm said:
The problem is that Akane doesn't understand what our thought process is. If she doesn't internalize that the hyuga are a valid suspect she is gonna do a poor job of it. Alternatively this could be good, if she thinks we send her in a diplomatic mission she is not going to have to deceive the "I can literally see your brain" clan,while also recompiling information.
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Maybe we could ask Ino? Ino's on good terms with Hinata and likely has better socials than either Akane or Hazou.
 
_The_Bomb said:
This was so unsubtle that you practically spelled it out for us. The Hyūga gave them the money. That would explain everything.
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This was included as a possibility in the previous plan that we specifically asked Haru to look for. There was no evidence of it, and instead he found that it was evidence of Hinata wanting to get in on our polycule. That's not the action of someone who wants to hurt us.

Forgery reduces the number of actors required to hate us (all the way down to the one who we already know hates us) while still solving all of the outstanding problems. Why did the Hag but a bunch of bad purchases? Because the money was free. Where did they get it from? Nara Inkjet.

Rafin said:
I thought the scrip was made out of colored wooden beads, not paper. Printed with a small symbol or something.
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Nope, we specifically asked to investigate the paper it came from in the last chapter.

Eisenhelm said:
The problem is that Akane doesn't understand what our thought process is. If she doesn't internalize that the hyuga are a valid suspect she is gonna do a poor job of it. Alternatively this could be good, if she thinks we send her in a diplomatic mission she is not going to have to deceive the "I can literally see your brain" clan,while also recompiling information.
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That's why we need to discuss it together so that Hazo's incorrect thought process can be corrected. Haru is right, Hazo/us was wrong.
 
Icehawk78 said:
That's why we need to discuss it together so that Hazo's incorrect thought process can be corrected. Haru is right, Hazo/us was wrong.
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Is still suspicious as hell, but it all comes down to what happened to the Scrip the hyuga collected? If they still have it or gave it all to the tower then its fine and it was most likely forgery. if they don't then it was they who gave it to the Hagomoro. Also what we asked of Haru was to identify why did they suddenly had a lot of scrip and he came empty handed. Not surprising as personal meeting between clan heads are private and storage scrolls are now extremely common thanks to us.
 
Icehawk78 said:
Nope, we specifically asked to investigate the paper it came from in the last chapter.
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About that...

Velorien said:
"Forget these fools and pay me what this so-called scrip is worth! I leave tomorrow, and I can't take these bits of wood back to Hot Springs!"
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eaglejarl said:
With apologies, these wooden chips are worthless in Mist."
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Icehawk78 said:
That's why we need to discuss it together so that Hazo's incorrect thought process can be corrected. Haru is right, Hazo/us was wrong.
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We still have no idea what happened, the Hyuga could be innocent or they could be mastermind behind it.
 
Eisenhelm said:
Is still suspicious as hell, but it all comes down to what happened to the Scrip the hyuga collected? If they still have it or gave it all to the tower then its fine and it was most likely forgery. if they don't then it was they who gave it to the Hagomoro. Also what we asked of Haru was to identify why did they suddenly had a lot of scrip and he came empty handed. Not surprising as personal meeting between clan heads are private and storage scrolls are now extremely common thanks to us.
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To be fair, even though it is unlikely, forgery on Hags part is still possible even if Hyuuga can't easily tell where their script are. There could be more than one plot and yadda yadda.
 
TarzanNn said:
To be fair, even though it is unlikely, forgery on Hags part is still possible even if Hyuuga can't easily tell where their script are. There could be more than one plot and yadda yadda.
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Why would it even be unlikely? Our scrip was literally just a bit of painted wood! We didn't number them and the only difficulty would be forging our seal - which wouldn't be particularly difficult.
 
RandomOTP said:
Maybe we could ask Ino? Ino's on good terms with Hinata and likely has better socials than either Akane or Hazou.
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I am not comfortable asking Ino about this, since it would be the first thing we would ask her after inviting her to Hazō's harem. It would look exploitative on Hazō' s part. I know I would be suspicious and maybe offended if I would be on the receiving end of this.

Let's not forget our priorities: romance is more important than finances and clan stuff!

Byzantine said:
Why would it even be unlikely? Our scrip was literally just a bit of painted wood! We didn't number them and the only difficulty would be forging our seal - which wouldn't be particularly difficult.
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I meant it from multiplied probabilities point of view, not that it is hard to forge our script. We may present the "Lessons learned" doc to Asuma since he implied Leaf may implement scrip in some form, Tower-issued now.
 
Pharos said:
Or the Hagoromo forged the scrip, and the Hyuga still have it.

If that's the case, the Hyuga are out a lot of money, and would probably want to get back at the party responsible: the Hagoromo. It all depends on what the Hyuga did with their scrip.
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The Hyuuga aren't out any money, the Tower bought all the scrip at face value and added it to our debt.
 
Sir Stompy said:
The Hyuuga aren't out any money, the Tower bought all the scrip at face value and added it to our debt.
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Depends on why they bought it. If they bought the scrip to open negotiations to reduce enmity between our clans (as Haru indicates he thinks likely) then their goal with the purchase has been sabotaged, even if the monetary purchase hasn't been. It's still an attack that negatively impacted their goals.
 
Icehawk78 said:
Depends on why they bought it. If they bought the scrip to open negotiations to reduce enmity between our clans (as Haru indicates he thinks likely) then their goal with the purchase has been sabotaged, even if the monetary purchase hasn't been. It's still an attack that negatively impacted their goals.
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Right, but I don't think they'll be angry with the Hags either way. If they want to be friends there are plenty of other things they could do, and they haven't lost anything from the bank run.
 
TarzanNn said:
I am not comfortable asking Ino about this, since it would be the first thing we would ask her after inviting her to Hazō's harem. It would look exploitative on Hazō' s part. I know I would be suspicious and maybe offended if I would be on the receiving end of this.

Let's not forget our priorities: romance is more important than finances and clan stuff!
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Asking Ino for advice is completely fine, we already went on a "date" to ask her to vote for the concubine laws and that was basically Ami exploiting the relationship to help Keiko:

Velorien said:
Ino appears undecided—Ami speculates that she is more easily swayed by personal loyalties, and there may be an opening there to bring her to our side. She suggests that the two of you leverage the bonds you have with her in order to bind her more heavily to both the KEI and Uplift, as while not the same, the two are mutually-reinforcing ideologies."
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Just promise Ino expensive spider silk clothes. Make Hazou's wife pay for the clothes.

It's good to be Emperor (Consort) :V!
 
We could buy a favor from Ami with the tokens she gave us, see if she can find the Hags' printing press/evidence they forged Scrip. This debacle fucked her plans up too after all, I bet she'd be happy for vengeance
 
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