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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Eisenhelm said:
i buy this. so, what concrete proof would we need to give Asuma in order to make sure he puts a stop to their ploting and we can take our money back?
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Linking the people the Hagoromo mass-spent scrip on to individuals present during the Bank Run is the big smoking gun IMO: we get this and it's a solid line tracing the Hagoromo being aware of the situation, and taking action to not only profit off of it but also instigate it. Hyuga's involvement will be harder: I'm of the opinion now that the entire reason they got involved was because of the low-risk/high-reward deal: Hagoromo might be getting all the foodstuff/land/stuff, but if the inevitable investigation bears fruit it's their necks on the line. Hyuga can just claim that they made out a loan or something, and had no idea what they were planning.
Pharos said:
Have we considered having Hazou meet Hinata and asking her why she bought so much scrip? If she knows about it, she can either explain herself and allay suspicion, or dodge the question and invite suspicion. If Hinata doesn't know that the Hyuga bought up a ton of scrip, then she has some clan subordinates acting without her knowledge, which would makes sense give the she is likely to be much less conservative than her clan is used to.

It's also a less hostile action than asking Asuma to force the Hyuga into turning over their financials. If Hinata is trying to make amends, why burn that bridge while it's still being constructed? Ask Hinata first, and depending on the answer, we then go to Asuma. Having the Hokage order a clan around should be a last resort. Consider adding this to the plan please?
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What evidence do you have that Hinata is actually trying to make amends?
 
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Lailoken said:
I have moments of insight while yelling at myself in my head and I think I just had one. No doubt there is some subtle implication I'm only going to figure out after I catch up on chapters because this universe can be safely assumed to be made of suck, but I have to get it out:


Ha ha ha. Google "sandbox tree" sometime. If that thing were a human it could be literally tried at The Hague for what it gets up to as part of it's ordinary lifecycle. Turn it's seedpods into explosive booby traps so it can hurl clawed seeds at the unwary at 150 MPH to send them scampering far and wide before the poison kills them and their bodies decay to fertilize the next generation? Sounds like fun. That's not even getting into some of the things in Australia or the Amazon such as amorphophallus titanum. Got to love a plant which will deliberately spread the stench of rotting flesh for miles and happily eat you. "The Ruins" was not botanically implausible.

-and that's just the easy mode of actual reality. You signed up for a survival experiment on a deathworld where all of that is cranked up to eleven and given magical superpowers by a retrocausal final Tipplarian being based on what combination could make the most lasting impact on reality from its perspective at the end of time. This universe undoubtedly contains puppies and unicorns, and they are just as undoubtedly viscous, venomous carnivores out to eat you. It's time to buck up or duck and cover, and if you want to buck up you had better be willing to wield your own compound fractures as belated bladed weapons in a screaming battle of annihilation. This is not a happy place. This is a place for people in a grim place to find catharsis.

Oh, and then there are the Other Things. They want to do a hell of a lot worse than just eat you...
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wellcome back and thank you for the existential dread.
 
faflec said:
Isan Team: Do suggestions made earlier(i.e., clear chakra monsters, find allies among Isan's outcasts).
  • Ask if the Yoshida are still willing/able to work with us; their clan head was a close ally but we haven't heard much about them.
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This is an entire update on its own and violates QM policy against nested plans.
faflec said:
Hazou suspects that the Hagoromo/Hyuga worked jointly to cause the Bank Run:
  • The Hyuga purchased scrip en masse, and gave/loaned to the Hagoromo, who made massive purchases with scrip at once.
  • Both sides worked together to spread the rumors of the scrip being worthless.
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There's no circumstantial evidence to suggest that the Hyuuga were behind the bank run, unlike the Hags. I don't understand the thread's fixation with them as the culprit. Haru is saying no. I am mildly confident they didn't do it. I think we should recognize that they very well might not have had anything to do with it.

faflec said:
  • The obvious issue with this theory is why the Hagoromo were needed in the first place. We suspect the Hagoromo were fronting the risk should the plot be found out, or that Ritsuo out-socialed Hinata into helping.
  • Hazou expects we can find damning evidence by:
    • Linking the Hagoromo's purchases with people who exchanged scrip for ryo during the Bank Run.
    • Confirming the Hyuga gave their scrip to the Hagoromo to buy.
  • Suggested approaches:
    • Investigate the merchants that sold to the Hagoromo, and what they did with their scrip.
    • Could Asuma request the Hyuga turn over their scrip? Failure to do so suggests they've given it to the Hagoromo, though it's not a given... [check with Keiko first]
  • Alternatively, the scrip could have been forged (e.g., by the Hagoromo). Could they have gotten the machines we use?
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Rest of this is fine, but I would prefer if it focused more on Hag forgery of scrip
 
Sir Stompy said:
There's no circumstantial evidence to suggest that the Hyuuga were behind the bank run, unlike the Hags. I don't understand the thread's fixation with them as the culprit. Haru is saying no. I am mildly confident they didn't do it. I think we should recognize that they very well might not have had anything to do with it
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the primary problems is that we have no idea what the Hyuga did whit the scrip they accumulated, until we resolve that the most plausible explanation "is they gave it to the Hagomoro who all of a sudden had a lot even though they didn't bough any", if the hyuga still have the scrip, then it's fine and the Hag forged the rest.
 
Sir Stompy said:
This is an entire update on its own and violates QM policy against nested plans.

There's no circumstantial evidence to suggest that the Hyuuga were behind the bank run, unlike the Hags. I don't understand the thread's fixation with them as the culprit. Haru is saying no. I am mildly confident they didn't do it. I think we should recognize that they very well might not have had anything to do with it.


Rest of this is fine, but I would prefer if it focused more on Hag forgery of scrip
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Nothing's stopping the Hyuga from being involved, but not the mastermind behind the plot. While forgery is possible, I don't think it's likely given how obvious it would be given the previous investigative results. It's still something I bothered to add in my plan, but I don't think there's much else we'd need to do there.

Edit: The nested plan thing I think I made more clear to have its own word count, the point of the link was to give a reference.
faflec said:
[X] Action Plan: An Attempt To Realign The Timeline
Word Count: 238
  • Isan Team:
    • Clear chakra monsters and find allies among Isan's outcasts, as previously outlined.
    • Ask if the Yoshida are still willing/able to work with us; their clan head was a close ally but we haven't heard much about them.
  • Bank Run Investigation Team:
    • Ask for an in-person update, listen and update our thoughts accordingly.
    • Hazou suspects that the Hagoromo/Hyuga worked jointly to cause the Bank Run:
      • The Hyuga purchased scrip en masse, and gave/loaned to the Hagoromo, who made massive purchases with scrip at once.
      • Both sides worked together to spread the rumors of the scrip being worthless.
    • The obvious issue with this theory is why the Hagoromo were needed in the first place. We suspect the Hagoromo were fronting the risk should the plot be found out, or that Ritsuo out-socialed Hinata into helping.
    • Hazou expects we can find damning evidence by:
      • Linking the Hagoromo's purchases with people who exchanged scrip for ryo during the Bank Run.
      • Confirming the Hyuga gave their scrip to the Hagoromo to buy.
    • Suggested approaches:
      • Investigate the merchants that sold to the Hagoromo, and what they did with their scrip.
      • Could Asuma request the Hyuga turn over their scrip? Failure to do so suggests they've given it to the Hagoromo, though it's not a given... [check with Keiko first]
    • Alternatively, the scrip could have been forged (e.g., by the Hagoromo). Could they have used the machines we use?
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I'm definitely on it being a forgery job. Scrip as we were doing it was a bad idea, because we had insufficient controls and too much out to keep track of it all at all times - you don't need strict controls on something there will only ever, say, be ten of. Because you can keep track of them and will notice if one magically shows up.

Scrip, on the other hand, was printed in sufficient quantities that they could easily have slipped an extra 20% in there without anyone being the wiser.

We should ask the tower for records of how much scrip was turned in to them (they'll have this so they know how much we owe them) and compare the totals to how much we printed locally. I'm betting we'll rapidly see that there was more scrip turned in than should have existed.
 
Hyuga bought a lot of scrip. They then sold it to Hagoromo(?). Hagoromo used it to buy land and gold - things that retain value when currency collapses. So they knew what they were about to do might crash the whole Leaf economy.

What we need, though, is some evidence of them instigating the bank run itself. Spreading rumours, and so on. We don't need to connect the people that were exchanging for ryo when we arrived, we need to check the records and find the people who were doing transactions when this started and find a connection there. Ask them why they decided to swap their scrip for ryo at that exact moment.

Edit: Well, not ask. We already did that. But more, find out. :p
 
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Unfortunately I doubt we can actually track down the source of the rumors at this point. Far too many angles of attack there, and we've already established they didn't make any obvious blunders with how they did it.

My guess is they probably just had a few of their civilians talk to other civilians about how they were worried about the scrip, and it snowballed from there.
 
Fair enough. Then we can't prove anything further, so what remains to be done is ascertaining whether Hyuga still has the scrip that they bought from us (or what they did with it if not) before bringing this to the Hokage with 'this is what happened, it was the Hagoromo using forgery / supported by Hyuga and we can't prove it any further but their actions show that they believed they were going to cause economic collapse and they did it anyway.
 
The land next to noodle has chakra metal or something really valuable and only the hyuga would know about it do to they being capable of looking through solid rock (a hyuga passed through there at some point and informed their clan head) We should make a point of taking it off the Hagomoro if we can.
 
EDIT: all of this might have been discussed earlier; if so then I'll just post it as a fresh plan after I reword most of it.

I feel like this is teetering on the edge of enough suggestions to merit a new plan; I might just wind up posting it as such. Broadly, I think that underscoring that the Hyuga might not have been involved (they could have been stockpiling scrip for another reason and our lead investigator hasn't turned up any supporting evidence) is smart in that it lets us examine the problem from another angle. Red text is entirely new; orange is a remix with some new additions.

I also think that asking Vel to write our introducing Haru to CCnJ is a reasonable idea; it seems fun, at least, and between Hazo being himself and Akane being earnest - and Haru's relationship with Akane - I think we might be able to make some progress. I'm also very interested in what he might say.
faflec said:
[X] Action Plan: An Attempt To Realign The Timeline
Word Count: 294
  • Isan Team:
    • Clear chakra monsters and find allies among Isan's outcasts, as previously outlined.
    • Ask if the Yoshida are still willing/able to work with us; their clan head was a close ally but we haven't heard much about them.
    • Ask Takahashi if he can identify other to approach.
  • Bank Run Investigation Team:
    • Ask for an in-person update, listen and update our thoughts accordingly.
    • Hazou is certain the Hagomoro are involved. It isn't clear how they got the scrip.
      • Forgery is a possibility, and should be verifiable.
        • Does the quantity of scrip collected match the quantity written? If not, is the difference equal/close to the amount spent by the Hags?
        • How feasible would forgery have been?
      • Alternately, the Hyuga may have purchased scrip en masse to give/loan to the Hagomoro, who made massive purchases with the scrip at once.
    • We have some tests to discriminate between the theories.
      • Do the Hyuga still have their scrip? (Can we ask Asuma to have them turn it over if they do?)
      • Which businesses stopped accepting scrip suddenly? To whom did they have ties?
      • Have the Hyuga also been spreading rumours?
      • What did the merchants that sold to the Hagoromo do with their scrip?
      • Can we link the people who insisted on ryo for their scrip during the bank run to a clan?
  • Haru:
    • Introduce CCnJ. Have Akane help.
    • CCnJ
      • You have done outstanding work. This is secondary only to international diplomacy/the literal apocalypse.
      • We wish to recognize this in a way you find meaningful.
      • Can we reward you? We are explicitly encouraging you to ask for the moon.
        • Training/jutsu? (We'll pay for/find teachers.) Status? Money? Chakra metal? Projects you want to pursue? Changes in our relationship?
        • Think on it - this is an open offer.
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Let's Review the Timeline
  1. Over a week before the run:
    1. Hyuuga are making infrequent exchanges with us. Mostly cashing scrip out, some buying it.
    2. Hagoromo are not buying it at all from us. Nor from merchants.
  2. A week before the run:
    1. Hyuuga stop trading scrip with us altogether.
    2. Hagoromo purchase large amounts of gold and a plot of seemingly useless land.
  3. Just before the bank run:
    1. There are rumours going around that scrip is about to be worthless and you need to cash out now before that happens. These rumours come from a variety of sources.
  4. During the bank run:
    1. Hyuuga do not attempt to cash out.
    2. Amori are seen in the crowd.
  5. Just after the bank run:
    1. The Tower buys all scrip from everyone, charging Gouketsu the cost.
    2. Hagoromo spread rumours against Gouketsu's reputation.

Possible Leads
  1. Find out where these rumours that scrip would be worthless originated. Send people round following the "I heard it from x" chain all the way back until we find someone important.
  2. Find out what the Amori know. Find some way to legally coerce the clan head into betraying his co-conspirators. Is there anything he loves that we can take control of and threaten to make him do what we want? Do we have, or can we get, any really good blackmail material? Could we use the Reid Interrogation Technique to trick him into confessing to the Hokage?
  3. What is up with that useless plot of land? Who owned it before? What can they tell us about it?
 
Lailoken said:
I'm still catching up, but I can safely say that you are a good, kind, and reasonable person.

If you really want to pursue reconciliation, go through him.
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I'm reasonable, but I'm definitely not good or kind.

I wasn't intending for us to make amends with the Hyuga. The latest chapter implied a possible motive for the Hyuga to buy up our scrip was to invest in us, which might mean they are trying to make amends with us. If they are, then we don't want to make moves that jeopardize that. It's very unlikely the Hyuga want to improve relations, but I don't want to discount the possibility.

_The_Bomb said:
This was so unsubtle that you practically spelled it out for us. The Hyūga gave them the money. That would explain everything.
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Or the Hagoromo forged the scrip, and the Hyuga still have it.

If that's the case, the Hyuga are out a lot of money, and would probably want to get back at the party responsible: the Hagoromo. It all depends on what the Hyuga did with their scrip.

______________

Unrelatedly -- you know how Mari and Keiko both have mental and emotional issues that we've been kind of letting stew in the background because we don't have a great way of handling them, and both Mari and Keiko's issues eventually erupted and created problems? I'm worried Haru is showing those same signs.

Haru seems like he has anger management issues and doesn't appear to trust anyone in the clan. He also doesn't believe that he is a valuable member of the Goketsu, and that his position is secure.

It'd be nice if Haru eased up and trusted us more over time, but it doesn't seem to be working fast enough. He got into a disagreement with Akane and literally started thinking of her in terms of combat. That's not a good thing, and we're lucky that Akane let the issue slide instead of pushing things further.

If we don't address that soon, I'm afraid it'll start snowballing out of our control. For example, Haru could get into another disagreement, start a violent conflict, and then be of course be reprimanded afterwards -- which would play into his distrust of us and breed resentment.
 
Icehawk78 said:
The reason the purchases didn't make sense is because they were bought with nothing but lies and the latest model of a likely legally purchased copy of the Nara Inkjet 1200 (for the purposes of printing religious texts, of course) and a bulk order from the same paper supplier we used.
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I thought the scrip was made out of colored wooden beads, not paper. Printed with a small symbol or something.
 
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