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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Velorien said:
Perhaps you have forgotten that there are three skills to being a sealmaster: Athletics, Sealing, and Calligraphy, in that order of priority.
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Kiba said:
Being able to draw and infuse seals is integral to a sealmaster. Otherwise, we could just train civilian theorists.
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In fact, I did indeed, sorry. I suppose that a crippled ninja would have a massive consequence against Athletics and Calligraphy. And since Sealing knowledge is integrally connected to the actual practice of sealing, that rules out having a Sealing Advisory Corp, too... Hm.

I still think that we should find something important for the non-Goketsu civilians/ninja to contribute to. Not only because they're a mostly-untapped resource, but also because I worry that they'll begin to act out. Sometimes when someone in poverty/misery receives aid, and cannot give anything back, they react with anger and frustration at their own circumstances. Sometimes. Whereas making the circumstances more akin to an equal exchange of time/effort will help to equalize that power dynamic. Besides, if the non-Goketsu feel important, if they feel like they're contributing towards the betterment of their "totally not Goketsu" community, then they'll be less inclined to leave/betray it.

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Edit: they'll also feel more secure about their place in that community. Right after the Sinkhole Incident, there was that pervasive, communal feeling of "help your neighbor" that usually follows after a tragedy happens. Now, that feeling is slowly starting to fade --or, at least, the shock of the tragedy is --and now they're wondering if Hazou's Uplift goodwill is too good to be true. And since many of them are just squatting and going to GED, they worry that they'll be pushed onto the streets. It's one thing to be reassured and told that won't happen, but it's another thing to be actively doing something that makes you useful to keep around.

Maybe Keiko has some ideas about how to change this for the ninja? And Gaku, awe-inspiring paragon of a human being that he is, might have some ideas about the civilians.
 
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RandomOTP said:
In fact, I did indeed, sorry. I suppose that a crippled ninja would have a massive consequence against Athletics and Calligraphy. And since Sealing knowledge is integrally connected to the actual practice of sealing, that rules out having a Sealing Advisory Corp, too... Hm.
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It was a joke to the effect that Athletics is required for sealmasters so that they can run away from seal failures. It's not technically required by game mechanics.
 
RandomOTP said:
I still think that we should find something important for the non-Goketsu civilians/ninja to contribute to. Not only because they're a mostly-untapped resource, but also because I worry that they'll begin to act out. Sometimes when someone in poverty/misery receives aid, and cannot give anything back, they react with anger and frustration at their own circumstances. Sometimes. Whereas making the circumstances more akin to an equal exchange of time/effort will help to equalize that power dynamic. Besides, if the non-Goketsu feel important, if they feel like they're contributing towards the betterment of their "totally not Goketsu" community, then they'll be less inclined to leave/betray it.
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You are overthinking this.

There is already an expectation that people on our estate are expected to contribute to the community one way or another. Whether that's washing clothes or working a job in the wider economy. If they can do something, they will, even if you're a retired ninja that can only open and close storage seals.

Beside, I had repeatedly told other players that ninja on our estate are basically Goketsu not-in-name-only. Also, we slide payments and so forth when Hazo pretend to lose in gambling, so they're already paid clan wages under the table.

Really, what they're missing is status and acknowledgement.
 
Kiba said:
Really, what they're missing is status and acknowledgement.
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I agree that I'm probably overthinking this. And there's not much that we can do for status just yet... as for the acknowledgement, maybe we can come up with a Goketsu uniform? Nothing too complicated, since that would strain the finances of the civilians. But maybe something minor, like a ribbon, that's incorporated into the outer aspects of one's attire? Colored to match Leaf's color symbology for something suitably optimistic.
 
RandomOTP said:
I agree that I'm probably overthinking this. And there's not much that we can do for status just yet... as for the acknowledgement, maybe we can come up with a Goketsu uniform? Nothing too complicated, since that would strain the finances of the civilians. But maybe something minor, like a ribbon, that's incorporated into the outer aspects of one's attire? Colored to match Leaf's color symbology for something suitably optimistic.
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What would they need that for? Goketsu civilians basically walk around town with a bunch of scary looking Yaks.
 
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Kiba said:
What would they need it for? Goketsu civilians basically walk around town with a bunch of scary looking Yaks.
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True, but it would be something to further bind the community together, not to ward off danger. Something to proudly show the world "I am of the Goketsu, even though you may deny me the name."
 
Velorien said:
Perhaps you have forgotten that there are three skills to being a sealmaster: Athletics, Sealing, and Calligraphy, in that order of priority.
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Noumero on Discord a few months ago said:
New build idea:
- Sealing 1, Calligraphy 1
- Athletics the capstone
- All other XP goes into half-cost jutsu to keep columns happy

This works like this: we carry around a ton of papers with seal-looking scribbles on them. When we need to solve a problem, we near it, infuse as many of our "seals" as we can, then run away using our superior running-away stat. "Watchers" are what weak sealmasters call their own cowardice.

Maybe invest into some CR so we can chakra-boost away from the deployed solution.
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See, people, I told you this was a good build.
 
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Kiba said:
That's not really a problem for civilians, since Hazo can just adopt them whenever he likes.
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Then it's still a sign of clan unity. If anything, it bolsters the connection, since "true," named Goketsu would be wearing it (Uplift and whatever civilians Hazou might adopt later on) and if the "unnamed" Goketsu wear it, then that marks them as Goketsu --even if they don't have the name because of legal reasons.
 
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What entities that must be moved overland or cannot be otherwise stored in a storage seal, economically or otherwise?

  • Koi fishes and other live animals.
  • People
 
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Kiba said:
What entities that must be moved overland or cannot be otherwise stored in a storage seal, economically or otherwise?

  • Koi fishes and other live animals.
  • People
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Maybe it's the presence of an active chakra system? Do plants have chakra systems? Or maybe it's just that the unsealing process is too destructive for most living beings to withstand --damage to our soft tissues, such as eyes, capillaries, organs, etc. Can potted plants survive being sealed, and do we know if sealing something --such as a scalpel --sterilizes it?
 
RandomOTP said:
Maybe it's the presence of an active chakra system? Do plants have chakra systems? Or maybe it's just that the unsealing process is too destructive for most living beings to withstand --damage to our soft tissues, such as eyes, capillaries, organs, etc. Can potted plants survive being sealed, and do we know if sealing something --such as a scalpel --sterilizes it?
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Noburi said chakra rice aren't worth absorbing. So they probably have chakra system.

I don't care about the why, but the what. A catalog all things that cannot be moved or stored by magic, including the summon trade network.

I was worried that the summon path trade network eliminate interestingness in the world, but it turned out that they don't, and so road systems and trade routes are still important.
 
[x] Action Plan: The Logistics of Apotheosis by Recursive Self-Improvement
Word count: 397
  • Meet with Keiko and Mari (max-privacy).
  • Discuss Ami: You have severe reservations about including her.
    • What is the theoretical limit to a person's proficiency at psychological manipulation, especially a Mori's? Ami's social acumen is unnerving as-is. A post-singularity Ami, you fear, would be effectively a mind-controller against anyone lesser than a jounin social-spec, including her fellow newly-made godlings.
    • You'd trust Mari with that power — a trust that was hard-earned over years in life-or-death situations, and sacrifices with no room for lies. Replicating that with Ami is unrealistic: incredibly difficult, necessarily mortally dangerous, and only possible if she is trustworthy. Anything less, you'd suspect manipulation.
    • Additionally, you suspect the SC feedback loop could be shortened by novel inventions in Sealing, Technique-Hacking, or Medical Ninjutsu, also making the beneficiary a double-god. Ami'll surely recognize that.
    • You might be willing to include her, in exchange for a lotof favours, provided that:
      • She waits two years. Guesstimating, in that time you'd be roughly within her striking range, removing the need for trust.
      • She doesn't study the aforementioned research disciplines.
  • Discuss OPSEC issues:
    • Concealing power spikes: What if the first skill everyone training with SC learns is acting? It would ensure we're able to conceal our other skills, barring emergencies, and it'd help with treason.
    • Concealing the training:
      • Keiko/Hazou could train on the Seventh Path: only Boss Summons would know. Con: excludes Akane, unless we get another Scroll.
      • Dig a deep basement, beyond the range of Byakugan, disguise it as something innocuous (backup koi pond?), train there.
    • Mari'd suggested leaking information about our bloodlines, seeded with misinformation calculated to convince people VD and SC don't synergize. The lie would need to be subtle, so that:
      • Clever people (Kabuto, Oro...), who'd realize the leak was deliberate, would slot it into "a true tidbit they included because it's harmless", not "the lie they're using to cover something up".
      • It won't, by itself, clue new people into thinking about VD's interactions with clones.
      • It's not blatantly wrong to anyone familiar with Mist bloodlines.
      • Suggestion: "Ingesting large quantities of Wakahisa water is dangerous for your chakra system, although you'd need to drink gallons of it daily for the effects to show. Nonetheless, the Wakahisa know and hide it."
        • If this is appropriate, task Mari with making the leak happen.
  • Background:
    • Update Asuma on the situation with the Wakahisa.
    • Enable the koi pond.
 
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Noumero said:
[x] Action Plan: The Logistics of Apotheosis by Recursive Self-Improvement
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Can you make it 2 years, just to be safe? That would give 6 months' leeway, allowing for surprise catastrophes that might hamper our ability to spend time on FOOM. Either way:
[x] Action Plan: The Logistics of Apotheosis by Recursive Self-Improvement
 
RandomOTP said:
Can you make it 2 years, just to be safe? That would give 6 months' leeway, allowing for surprise catastrophes that might hamper our ability to spend time on FOOM. Either way:
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I've been thinking that "a year and a half" sounds like "slightly longer than a year", whereas "two years" sounds like "two years": the first one might seem much shorter.

But sure. Two years give us time to get to Deceit 60, too.
 
Not the greatest plan, but the outline is good enough for me to be posting this. I don't think there are other pressing things we need to do before we go to the iron mine?

[X] Action Plan: The Days Before The Journey
Word Count: 229
  • Let Asuma know about Sadaharu's disappearance, it is concerning.
  • Enable the koi pond.
  • Convince Ruri and Aika to join the Seventh Path trade.
    • Prep: Gather intel on their personalities/socioeconomic life. Optimize with Mari before implementing.
      • If she deems it necessary, get Noburi or Keiko to go instead.
    • Generally speaking, mimic our meeting with Neji, but fine-tune things towards them specifically.
      • Ruri: Tone of friendship and cooperation; act as equals.
        • Meet in a tavern, let Ruri see us losing to KEI-nin gambling.
        • Focus on our connections through the KEI, and how we want to see them prosper.
        • Highlight the injustice between clan-/clanless ninja.
          • Did they spend unnecessary time as a 'special jonin'?
      • Aika: Tone of contrition and respect.
        • Request that we meet in their compound, the seat of their power.
        • Nikkō died saving us and we've tried to repay that ever since. We're glad the Porcupine Scroll we brought went to the Minami.
        • Them joining the venture will be but a small payment to what they've already given.
        • Bring up how the Turtle Summoner (Hyūga Neji) plans on participating. Depending on our read on Aika, point out how the scheme grants us opportunities to influence him, and his cousin/clan head through him.
  • Misc:
    • Finish the chakdar seal.
    • Take Candoru hunting in the Forest of Death as a milk run.
 
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faflec said:
Not the greatest plan, but the outline is good enough for me to be posting this. I don't think there are other pressing things we need to do before we go to the iron mine?

[X] Action Plan: The Days Before The Journey
Word Count: ZZZ
  • Enable the koi pond.
    • Let Asuma know about Sadaharu's disappearance, it is concerning.
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Shouldn't Sadaharu's disappearance be #1 priority instead of being placed under koi pond as an afterthought?
 
Kiba said:
Shouldn't Sadaharu's disappearance be #1 priority instead of being placed under koi pond as an afterthought?
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I mean, yes, but what exactly can be done beyond what we've already done? A search party's already been sent out, we're getting the message through to the Hokage. Certainly, we can do the things you suggest in your plan (more search parties, alert Mist's ambassadors), but these things seem the sort of thing the Hokage is supposed to do, not us. And Asuma is smart enough to recognize that himself.

Like, I can try to add the above in if needed, but things are kinda above our heads by this point.
 
faflec said:
I mean, yes, but what exactly can be done beyond what we've already done? A search party's already been sent out, we're getting the message through to the Hokage. Certainly, we can do the things you suggest in your plan (more search parties, alert Mist's ambassadors), but these things seem the sort of thing the Hokage is supposed to do, not us. And Asuma is smart enough to recognize that himself.

Like, I can try to add the above in if needed, but things are kinda above our heads by this point.
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If you make it bullet point number one it's more likely to be its own scene though
 
Noumero said:
Discuss Ami: You're willing to include her, assuming she acquires SC, with three conditions:
  • She waits 2 years.
    • What is the theoretical limit to a person's proficiency at psychological manipulation? What if said person already has... cognitive enhancements? Ami's social acumen is unnerving as-is. A post-singularity Ami, you fear, would virtually be a mind-controller against anyone lesser than a jounin social-spec.
    • You'd trust Mari with that power — a trust that was hard-earned over years in life-or-death situations, and sacrifices with no room for lies. Replicating that with Ami is unrealistic: incredibly difficult, necessarily mortally dangerous, and only possible if she is trustworthy. Anything less, you'd suspect manipulation.
    • By your calculations, in 1.5 years you'd be roughly within her striking range, removing the need for trust.
  • She doesn't study Sealing or Technique-Hacking, nor Medical Ninjutsu beyond the basics. You suspect the feedback loop could be further shortened by novel inventions in these fields, making the beneficiary a... double-god. See above.
  • Tons of favours.
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I feel vaguely uncomfortable with opening the topic with "I'd be willing to do this under the following conditions", for reasons I find hard to pin down. Do you think it would work as well to frame it as something more like 'the main reasons I wouldn't be willing to give it to her' for the first two points (reframed as 'we need time to catch up to her' and such)?

To attempt to pin down my discomfort, I feel like opening the conversation with what's essentially an expression of willingness upon unknown conditionals evokes a generalized image of us being willing to give FOOM to Ami, with the conditionals themselves left ambiguous until we get to them. This means that anyone who shares our concerns would feel anxious that our conditions may not be strict enough and anyone who does want Ami to get FOOM would be primed with hope before we get to the conditions we impose.

Meanwhile, if we instead frame it as 'I have xyz reasons why I would not want Ami to get access to FOOM', then someone who is also worried about Ami FOOMing would nod along as we move onto those reasons, and someone who does want Ami to get FOOM would get to hear the serious hangups we have about the matter as the opener. From there, as we explain what the hangups are and in what scenario they would cease to be a problem, someone worried about Ami FOOMing would see their own concerns addressed and someone in favor of Ami FOOMing would see no irreconcilable problems, and then at the end we can conclude with 'and if we clear all of that, I would be okay with trading it to her for a suitably large amount of favors'.

It feels more tactful overall, a better representation of our mindset as we progress through the speech, but I do recognize that it's more intuition on social models than anything guiding this suggestion, so feel free to disagree.
 
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