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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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1234qwerty said:
Could we replicate the sinkhole attack on Cloud or Rock? Looking at the wikipedia article on sink holes, there doesn't seem to be anything special required. We have tunneling jutsu, digging jutsu, the pangolins, and presumably byakugan surveillance of those villages from when they hosted chunin exams which could be supplemented with present skywalker surveillance. Having instigated the attack, Rock may have defenses prepared against a retaliatory strike, but I doubt they would have bothered to protect every building(especially if they relied on a specific clan's ability to expedite the attack) and any defenses would probably still be vulnerable to byakugan plus Aburame tampering.
  • 3 relevant jutsu
    • Excavation
      • Leaves a permanent tunnel. For making the sinkholes once the team is already in position.
      • Lasts 1 minute, let's you move Aspect/2 zones per round, leaving behind a 2 meter diameter tunnel. Costs 36CP at effect 3.
      • Doesn't seem like a bottleneck for the plan. Not too expensive on chakra and the pangolins may have an even better version(the human version was translated to the new system from the old one but the pangolin version wasn't since we didn't choose it).
      • Can do several practice runs in the summon realm or somewhere in Leaf that has similar geological composition as Rock. Safer to try with clones or summons.
    • Hiding Like a Mole
      • For getting into position to create the sinkholes.
      • As the Excavation Technique, but 6CP cheaper. Must hold breath underground and can't take large objects or others with you. At Aspect 3 and 20 rounds per minute, that lets you travel 60 zones per 30CP, which we can work backward from to determine how close we need to be able to get to Rock undetected before switching to burrowing.
      • Noburi can help extend this distance, as well as electing to spend several days underground, waiting for chakra to replenish before pressing further.
      • Ideally, the whole team would travel together but could use a Hyuga spotter, tunnel to the edge of their range, excavate a hole back to them, repeat. Shouldn't be too hard to find an earth element Hyuga with HLaM 1 or teach it to them, but we'd want a Hyuga with lots of byakugan range.
      • A very large pangolin would be easier to detect, but might be able to carry a person as 'not a large object.'
    • Living Roots
      • Adds 3 times technique effect to Alertness when still and allows you to sense vibrations through the ground. Lasts 1 minute, costing 32CP at effect 3. Not explicit how far this lets you sense, but it's the only example available for what kind of sensory techniques/seals Rock might have that we'd need to fool.
      • At Alertness 60, LR 60, a ninja could have Alertness 240. Hard to gauge what this means, but if there's a pangolin of similar ability, we can practice the operation against their senses.
      • Lots of other small things we could do, I'm sure, like sending out burrowing chakra beasts and seeing at what range they get detected.
      • Would want to account for them periodically burrowing down a ways before activating LR, not just using it from the surface.
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They've probably thought that though, though. After all, who makes a weapon without considering implications and counters first.

Shikaku.JPG
 
eaglejarl said:
HDK. And, in truth, I shouldn't be making declarative statements without talking to the other QMs. That said, it seems very unlikely to me that no one has had the idea that adopting an Academy student doesn't use an adoption slot.
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We've had this conversation in the past. The concensus I remember was it doesn't use a slot but other clans are going to be very side eyeing you if you abuse that.
 
eaglejarl said:
HDK. And, in truth, I shouldn't be making declarative statements without talking to the other QMs. That said, it seems very unlikely to me that no one has had the idea that adopting an Academy student doesn't use an adoption slot.
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Something that occurs to me is that, unlike established clanless ninja, Academy students are nigh-unknowns. You don't know how they'll hold up in real combat. You can kind of guess whether they're talented enough to make X rank, but you can't be fully sure when they haven't even made Genin. They're not likely to have a bloodline or anything else indicative of good odds of success, so the best you'd be able to do is keep an eye out for a prodigy and hope they turn out strong.

As a consequence, I'm not sure people have seriously considered the question IC. My read on clan adoptions is that they tend to only offer it when they know the given ninja will be a benefit to the clan, and you need a proven track record for that so 'experienced Genin' is as low as you'd be willing to go. If that's the case then there might not be a ratified consensus on the matter as nobody's actually been madlad enough to do it.

That said, if the matter comes up seriously I'm pretty sure I know where everyone would side. Regardless of whether the adopting clan is making a good investment or not, another ninja in their clan is another slice of the pie and so naturally the same rules apply, though perhaps they would agree to refund the slot if the student flunks out of the Academy, or have the slot only be consumed upon graduation.
 
Hazo's current standard operating procedure:

  • Early morning genjutsu training
  • Journaling. Note emotions and thoughts.
  • Apply PTJ.
  • Rest of the day...blahblahblah.
  • Training & maintenance of skills.
  • Apply Ami-style training.
 
Byzantine said:
The concensus I remember was it doesn't use a slot but other clans are going to be very side eyeing you if you abuse that.
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Then we should bring her in ASAP. Because I don't think that we'd be overstepping ourselves here to try and bring Honoka and her family into the clan. Kagome took an active, noticeable interest in Honoka's education and her parents --or her mother, at least --are shown to be favorable towards Kagome. And Kagome's been very public about his favor towards Honoka, even by his own standards. I mean, the gifting of a handmade coat on its own might be a visual signal for "this one is mine, harm her at your own peril" backed by the intrinsic "I'm a sealmaster, don't anger me" weight behind it.

Depending on how things work in Leaf, most of Leaf's civilians and ninja might consider Honoka (and maybe her family, by extension) an honorary member of Kagome's clan. The fact that a sealmaster took time out of his very busy, very profitable, and very valuable schedule to hand make a coat says a lot more than simply buying one off of the shelf and throwing it at her. So, I suspect that if we adopt Honoka and her family into the clan, the rest of the village would either see it as a legal affirmation of a preexisting, unofficial backing or the culmination of an extended campaign on our part to win them over until we finally got Honoka's family to agree to join us. Or perhaps some mixture of both.

And remember, even Jiraiya thought that Honoka was a hidden prodigy and that it just took a bit of one-on-one attention to bring that natural genius to the surface. And if that was Jiraiya's assumption, then it's not unreasonable to think that the majority of the Leaf share it --especially since they don't have Mari to set them straight. Hell, Mari might actually be encouraging the rumors. Mari knows Kagome well enough to know that he'd want to do it eventually, and she also knows Hazou well enough that he wouldn't deny his teacher that --especially since it meshes so well with his goals. It's also something nice and I suspect that she feels the need to do nice things (that won't hurt her clan) to try and feel alive.

So I suspect that most of Leaf will see it as "they saw Honoka as a potential diamond in the rough, so they gave her some very valuable personal tutoring from their own sealmaster (for free) and the investments paid off. So now they're going to reap the rewards of their efforts, the benefits of taking the long shot."

In fact, it's a small wonder that no other clan has tried to poach Honoka away from our clan. Maybe it's a cultural taboo, or maybe they just don't think Honoka's worth pissing off the sealmasters who were instrumental in saving them from the last Seal Failure. I wonder if more clans will end up emulating the quasi-sponsorship-thing in the hopes of gaining their own overlooked prodigy? I mean, some clans might consider it to repopulate their numbers, if nothing else. Maybe hand-sown leather coats --plus an insignia patch --will become the sign for "Ward of the [whatever] Clan"? I hope it does, I'd love to see Kagome accidentally become a fashion trend-setter.

Edit: grammar and clarity of thought
 
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RandomOTP said:
And remember, even Jiraiya thought that Honoka was a hidden prodigy and that it just took a bit of one-on-one attention to bring that natural genius to the surface.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the scene I think you're referencing went more like this:
Jiraiya: What do you mean, Honoka operated a storage seal? For someone at her age that's crazy and reckless, she could be permanently hurt!
Kagome: What do you know, stinker? I was there with her and she was totally ready for it!
*rabble rabble rabble*

So the way it went was less 'you have to be a prodigy to be able to open a storage seal at her age' and more 'I don't trust you to judge when someone's ready to safely open a storage seal'. Don't get me wrong, when Honoka graduates and Hazou inevitably starts micromanaging her build she'll do great, but I don't think Jiraiya actually said Honoka was a prodigy there.
nevereatcars said:
How and what chapter did Honoka and Kagome meet?
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Here. Kagome taught a wilderness survival class at the Academy once and Honoka was part of the class. Afterwards, students in the class sent Kagome thank-you letters and Honoka's letter stuck out because she mentioned she didn't expect to be able to become a ninja, and Kagome went into papa bear mode when he read that.

edit: Also, oof in retrospect:
eaglejarl said:
"Kagome is a sealmaster," Mari said. "He's far more valuable on the home front and should have regular availability. I'm happy to fill in for him when he has other obligations." She kept the smile bright, allowing no trace of her true feelings to show. She'd already proven herself a terrible mentor and mother-figure to three kids, should she really be volunteering to help a fourth? Still, Kagome was set on it and she needed to support him. Leaving aside the fact that having her team's back was the one virtue she still had, she'd already put too much work into this situation to let it come apart now. And she probably wouldn't actually need to step in. Kagome was nothing if not dedicated.
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Inferno Vulpix said:
oof in retrospect
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Are you referring to the part where Mari asked herself "What would make Kagome come out of his shell, stop being quite so paranoid, and bond with Leaf residents so as to make it less likely for him to randomly kill someone / have a breakdown?", then found a young child who fit the bill, arranged with the Academy for Kagome to teach a class that included that girl, ensured that Kagome saw her letter and decided to act on it, and then smoothed the way so that Kagome would become Honoka's mentor? I thought that bit had flown under the radar.
 
eaglejarl said:
Are you referring to the part where Mari asked herself "What would make Kagome come out of his shell, stop being quite so paranoid, and bond with Leaf residents so as to make it less likely for him to randomly kill someone / have a breakdown?", then found a young child who fit the bill, arranged with the Academy for Kagome to teach a class that included that girl, ensured that Kagome saw her letter and decided to act on it, and then smoothed the way so that Kagome would become Honoka's mentor? I thought that bit had flown under the radar.
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Nah, just the general thing where we can see all the fault lines she'd eventually fracture along spelled out rather clearly but she still hadn't broken yet. I'm thinking back to that period and I don't recall very much worry on the matter so I think we might not have paid enough attention.
 
Honoka is the result of when somebody actually decided to mentor a kid. Individualized attention will do wonder for development. The problem is that individualized attention is expensive.

We could probably fund an adjacent "mentor" program.
 
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eaglejarl said:
Are you referring to the part where Mari asked herself "What would make Kagome come out of his shell, stop being quite so paranoid, and bond with Leaf residents so as to make it less likely for him to randomly kill someone / have a breakdown?", then found a young child who fit the bill, arranged with the Academy for Kagome to teach a class that included that girl, ensured that Kagome saw her letter and decided to act on it, and then smoothed the way so that Kagome would become Honoka's mentor? I thought that bit had flown under the radar.
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That's been my assumption of how it wemt the whole time, yeah. Honestly, that's not so bad. It's a little manipulative, but not bad-manipulative any more than finding someone more friends is.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the scene I think you're referencing went more like this:
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I'm referencing the scene in that chapter that went...

Jiraiya: This method is insane and stupid. Honoka will burn her pathways horribly and die.
Hazou/Noburi: We learned this way, though...
Mari: Different villages have different teaching methods and Leaf's is a little... restrained.
Jiraiya: We don't have half of our Academy classes burning out because they crippled themselves while training. There's a reason Leaf does things the way that it does.
Mari: But Kagome's method is working for her. Honoka went from almost dropping out of the academy to one of the highest in her class.
Jiraiya: Alright, so she's skilled. She's probably just a late blooming --
Mari: if you say "prodigy," I'll cut your balls off. Look. Let's not wave it under the excuse of "she's special." Let's try to find out what made that change happen so that we can spread it to the other children.
Jiraiya: I'm not fully convinced.
Mari: We'll keep an eye on her chakra pathways via Hyuuga eyeballs and have then we'll her checked at the hospital every week or so. If something happens, we'll stop. But this method is working and it deserves to be explored. Also extra special adult stuff later on.
Jiraiya: You had my attention at child safety and my agreement at adult stuff.
Hazou: I'm going to need therapy about this later, aren't I?
 
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RandomOTP said:
I'm referencing the scene in that chapter that went...

Jiraiya: This method is insane and stupid. Honoka will burn her pathways horribly and die.
Hazou/Noburi: We learned this way, though...
Mari: Different villages have different teaching methods and Leaf's is a little... restrained.
Jiraiya: We don't have half of our Academy classes burning out because they crippled themselves while training. There's a reason Leaf does things the way that it does.
Mari: But Kagome's method is working for her. Honoka went from almost dropping out of the academy to one of the highest in her class.
Jiraiya: Alright, so she's skilled. She's probably just a late blooming --
Mari: if you say "prodigy," I'll cut your balls off. Look. Let's not wave it under the excuse of "she's special." Let's try to find out what made that change happen so that we can spread it to the other children.
Jiraiya: I'm not fully convinced.
Mari: We'll keep an eye on her chakra pathways via Hyuuga eyeballs and have then we'll her checked at the hospital every week or so. If something happens, we'll stop. But this method is working and it deserves to be explored. Also extra special adult stuff later on.
Jiraiya: You had my attention at child safety and my agreement at adult stuff.
Hazou: I'm going to need therapy about this later, aren't I?
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I don't see the argument for adopting her from a strategic perspective.
 
Kiba said:
I don't see the argument for adopting her from a strategic perspective.
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Honoka's a good long term investment, basically. She's a promising, top-of-her-class student and she's bound to become a great ninja. She has the dedication to thrive under Kagome's teaching style and the empathy to connect with him on a human level, in spite of his... eccentricities. Kagome's determined to ensure she becomes a ninja, which means that she guaranteed a certain base level of competency, but because Kagome genuinely cares for her, we can safely assume that he's going to overprep and over-train her for the ninja world in a classic Kagome manner. So we can safely assume she's going to be a good genin, and can bet that she's going to be a strong genin with the personality to become a strong ninja.

Furthermore, since she's loyal to Kagome right now, we can bind Honoka to Team Uplift pretty quickly and easily, thus increasing our own strength and numbers. And, as a civilian-born ninja, she's likely to already believe in most/all of Hazou's equality ideas. And her parents are business owners, so there's a certain amount of income that would be brought in (I mean, we're doing something similar with Akane's parents, right?) and another voice on the civilian marketplace to speak our words. Another ear to hear valuable rumors.

Edit: Also, we wouldn't be using an adoption slot with an academy student. Which Honoka is right now. But she won't always be. So let's adopt her and maybe throw some supplemental training her way until we can rescue Kagome from his desk. It costs us nothing except maybe time and there are rewards that are all but guaranteed. I mean, regardless of what we do, Kagome's going to turn Honoka into a powerful ninja simply because he likes her and doesn't want her to die. So let's make her our powerful ninja.
 
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RandomOTP said:
Honoka's a good long term investment, basically. She's a promising, top-of-her-class student and she's bound to become a great ninja. She has the dedication to thrive under Kagome's teaching style and the empathy to connect with him on a human level, in spite of his... eccentricities. Kagome's determined to ensure she becomes a ninja, which means that she guaranteed a certain base level of competency, but because Kagome genuinely cares for her, we can safely assume that he's going to overprep and over-train her for the ninja world in a classic Kagome manner. So we can safely assume she's going to be a good genin, and can bet that she's going to be a strong genin with the personality to become a strong ninja.

Furthermore, since she's loyal to Kagome right now, we can bind Honoka to Team Uplift pretty quickly and easily, thus increasing our own strength and numbers. And, as a civilian-born ninja, she's likely to already believe in most/all of Hazou's equality ideas. And her parents are business owners, so there's a certain amount of income that would be brought in (I mean, we're doing something similar with Akane's parents, right?) and another voice on the civilian marketplace to speak our words. Another ear to hear valuable rumors.
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Let me summarize the values:

Honoka: Long term investment. Some extra trivial income, more rumor mills. Minus: She brings no new capabilities.
Aya: Genjutsu or two with deadly swingy blade firepower. Minus: Mystery box.
Haru: Firepower and lighting jutsu. Minus: An axe to grind.
Kaiyo: TH. Experienced soldier. Minus: Drunk.

Sorry. Honoka's value doesn't look great here.
 
Kiba said:
Let me summarize the values:

Honoka: Long term investment. Some extra trivial income, more rumor mills. Minus: She brings no new capabilities.
Aya: Genjutsu or two with deadly swingy blade firepower. Minus: Mystery box.
Haru: Firepower and lighting jutsu. Minus: An axe to grind.
Kaiyo: TH. Experienced soldier. Minus: Drunk.

Sorry. Honoka's value doesn't look great here.
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Honoka doesn't use a slot. She's an academy student, thus not a "ninja" right now. And due to our previous actions, the Leaf wouldn't blink twice if we brought her in. If anything, they're likely expecting it. We can bring Honoka in as well as one of the other three. Hell, an argument could be made about Honoka being a mitigating influence on Haru's personality, much in the same way that Akane is. Or a machine for character development with Aya. Or a proper motivation with Kaiyo to get/stay sober, if we have Kaiyo interact/teach Honoka.

Byzantine said:
We've had this conversation in the past. The concensus I remember was it doesn't use a slot but other clans are going to be very side eyeing you if you abuse that.
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RandomOTP said:
Honoka doesn't use a slot. She's an academy student, thus not a "ninja" right now. And due to previous actions, the Leaf wouldn't blink twice if we brought her in. If anything, they're likely expecting it. We can bring Honoka in as well as one of the other three. Hell, an argument could be made about Honoka being a mitigating influence on Haru's personality, much in the same way that Akane is.
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It's basically yes, it does.
 
Kiba said:
It's basically yes, it does.
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I'm afraid that I... don't quite understand what you're trying to say with that post. You mentioned that Honoka didn't compare well with the other three adoptees, and I pointed out that we didn't need to choose between Honoka and the other three, since we could adopt Honoka without the expenditure of a slot.

...I'm not trying to be rude or inciteful, I just don't understand what you're trying to say in that post.
 
RandomOTP said:
I'm afraid that I... don't quite understand what you're trying to say with that post. You mentioned that Honoka didn't compare well with the other three adoptees, and I pointed out that we didn't need to choose between Honoka and the other three, since we could adopt Honoka without the expenditure of a slot.

...I'm not trying to be rude or inciteful, I just don't understand what you're trying to say in that post.
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The free slot is not in fact free, especially with the political costs attached to it.
 
Kiba said:
The free slot is not in fact free, especially with the political costs attached to it.
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But it is free, since she's an Academy student. And the downside that "other clans will give you the side-eye if you abuse it" is bypassed by the fact that we're not abusing it. There aren't any political costs to this due to all of the actions that we (mostly Kagome) have already completed. The only thing that we might spend is some time training her, which Kagome is already going to do. And once he gets out, he's going to need some major therapy and a reminder of why not all Leaf citizens are shit. And pre-break Mari handpicked this girl and this act (tutoring Honoka) for that specific purpose. So Kagome's going to get right back to it once we get him out and Mari's could very reasonably support it for the same reasons as she had before.

Hell, with her new... outlook, Mari might decide that if we're going to devote this much time and effort into Honoka, we might as well strengthen the clan at the same time.
 
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RandomOTP said:
But it is free, she's an Academy student. And the "other clans will give you the side-eye if you abuse it" is bypassed by the fact that we're not abusing it. There aren't any political costs to this due to all of the actions that we (mostly Kagome) have already completed. The only thing that we might spend is some time training her, which Kagome is already going to do. And once he gets out, he's going to need some major therapy and a reminder of why not all Leaf citizens are shit. And pre-break Mari handpicked this girl and this act (tutoring Honoka) for that specific purpose. So Kagome's going to get right back to it once we get him out and Mari's could very reasonably support it for the same reasons as she had before.

Hell, with her new... outlook, Mari might decide that if we're going to devote this much time and effort into Honoka, we might as well strengthen the clan at the same time.
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And you don't think the clans are going to give a shit about all the actions done beforehand?
 
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