Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Probably 2 at maximum. Unless they're simple,
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Raxner
The most dangerous man in an empty room
- Location
- Israel
But where does he get the data from? I've never noticed in story any consistent mentioning of dates--in fact, I can hardly recall the characters ever saying anything like "That'll be on the 5th of May" or "Today is July 16." So where does @faflec get the data with which to correct the timeline?
- Location
- Yes.
They give dates every once in a while, it's usually at the top of a scene (like in A Family Dies). You can extrapolate from there.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Start from the dates that are in the timeline, then keep track of events. If one scene centers around dinner and the next centers around breakfast, the date has probably incremented by 1.
- Location
- Kiev, Ukraine
It was probably a mistake to tag Vel only. @eaglejarl @OliWhail?
I was unsuccessfull in using CSF to launch SiK extension. CSF install ed normally, but then something strange happened at verifying SiK and it just hanged indefinitely
E: It may not be the general case scenario since I'm on Linux Mint 19. Though the same system had no problems with SiK in Chromium
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- Location
- Yes.
- Location
- Potato land
The price may be similar for them, but it's much smaller for us, the Goketsu Clan. I do think everyone involved will be happier in the more spread-out arrangement, for reasons I've already laid out. My main reason for opposing the deal, though, is that I don't think the added value of controlling the Uchiha vote is worth all the trouble accepting will cause for us. Like, it's not close.
If it's a completely binary take-it-or-leave-it situation, with the hat on the line, I will reevaluate. But if the possibility of our allied clans taking some of the burden - both here and of the Hagoromo debt - is on the table, then I'd much rather explore that option first.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Ahh, okay. I disagree regarding your conclusions there -- I think that the Uchiha is worth way more than what it costs to us, and the Hagoromo especially so since all they're asking for is money.
With a little hivemind ingenuity, money's not a problem -- and won't be for months as it stands, even without some creative accounting.
As far as what the Uchiha are costing us... yeah, it's a pretty big deal. But it also allows a very large degree of control over Konoha politics in the future. Even if the kage vote wasn't a thing at all I'd be inclined to take it because of that. Being able to push through education reform (get Tsunade's backing with a med-nin track), improve conditions for civilians, push for uplift on a national scale rather than just till'n'fills, offering the Uchiha's votes to other people in exchange for favors...
As a deal, it seems massively in our favor. And I don't actually think the women would be happier split up at all. They wouldn't have their social circles amongst each other, and they'd be split amongst clans that, frankly, don't give nearly as much a care for civilian wellbeing as we do.
- Location
- Kiev, Ukraine
I don't think it is a very large degree of control. Moreover I think they can hardly give us less control. In the next 3 years we will have 36 to 64 votes in Council and Uchiha deal allows to control 1/17 of the votes for 5 of those votes. This is pocket change in terms of political power. You yourself already names 4 votes in quoted post. Add one more and that's it for next 3 years.
Additionally, because every marker is only 1/17 of total Council votes we can still lose a vote even throwing a marker into the play.
And if that's not enough, Uchiha can always abstain instead of voting as we told them.
I think we need to drop the deal completely and find a more reasonable Clan to work with, because these terms give us insultingly low political control over Leaf.
I do agree that the girls would probably be more safe at Gouketsu compound than anywhere else, though.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
The amount of markers is mostly irrelevant. We need only make sure that whatever we do benefits them in some way and they'll vote along their best interests after we give them the power point presentation.
This is about getting a foot in the door.
- Location
- Kiev, Ukraine
I highly doubt that. They are still scared shitless of Hyuuga. Otherwise they wouldn't add an abstain clause.
And if they decide that risk of pissing Hyuuga worth benefits they can receive from voting our way than it doesn't matter that much whether we have the deal signed: they would be inclined to vote this way regardless.
Maybe we can drop the deal without enraging them and still be on friendly terms to make these present actions possible, though this is dubious at best.
- Location
- Potato land
It is true that the deal's wording basically guarantees that we can't use it for anything truly important or contentious. Best case would be votes which we care deeply about, but which Hyuuga will oppose on principle, without caring much for the issue at hand. I'm not optimistic enough to expect a lot of those, though.
On a separate note, the Sharingan clause is plainly unacceptable as is. Putting aside the remote possibility of Hazou himself developing it, what if Hazou marries in the future, and his heir wins the lottery? There's no way we can give them up for adoption.
On a separate note, the Sharingan clause is plainly unacceptable as is. Putting aside the remote possibility of Hazou himself developing it, what if Hazou marries in the future, and his heir wins the lottery? There's no way we can give them up for adoption.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
So attempt to renegotiate this point then.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Personally, I suspect we can use it to get +1-3 summon scrolls, if we so desire.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Honestly I completely disagree with this assessment. We are the driving force in Leaf politics. If Uchiha try to defect from the spirit of the deal we will just destroy them utterly
From Mari's opinion, I don't see how that's the case? Especially after they build enough to be able to resist Hyuga's machination.
- Location
- Liverpool
Oneiros, I feel that you are maybe doing the thing where we overstate how good we are, or how strong our position. Jiraiya was a driving force, we're establishing ourselves as competent actors. We haven't even met with our allies to talk strategy yet. Assuming we can crush a clan with more people and more history that us, without it tanking us, just because they're afraid of the Hyuga (which is 100% fair) doesn't seem to assume the other parties involved are competent rational actors. At least that's my opinion.
I'm all for forging bonds with the uchiha, I just think this deal is a poor one. Any anything based around "but we'll just boss them around", I feel, has to clear the bar of "why do we even need this particular deal then?"
- Location
- Why would this be required?
I disagree, even if they abstain over voting in our favor it still gives us a higher level of control that most clans don't get outside of power blocks or political manipulation. It was a big enough deal that many people were considering rebuilding the uzumaki as a sister clan just to have a second vote on the council. Not to mention completely dropping this deal without any thought on our part will just alienate the Uchiha and likely push them to vote for Hyuga rather than abstain, which would be very bad for us.
Plus we only have a week now, restarting a whole new deal with another clan isn't going to happen.
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Apart from sharing a bloodline with another clan, I don't see how the deal is a poor one to us?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
We'd like to be more certain than not that Hiashi won't win the Hokage election.
An election which is 7 days or so from now.
Now, that doesn't mean we can try to renegotiate a bunch of terms here, but it likely means we wont have the time to start from scratch with folks who aren't the Hagoromo or the Uchiha.
- Location
- NY
Which clan could that possibly be? Plus, dropping this deal means Uchiha votes with Hyuga instead of abstaining, meaning we lose TWICE.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm tired of having this discussion. We are the dominant clan militarily. We are on top economically. We are the driver politically. Let's not act like we are weak when we are one of the 2-3 most dominant clans
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I don't feel like the vote markers we have over the Uchiha are of insignificant value. Mari already expressed that the Uchiha, being a proud people and also desperate to stay in good repute and in our good graces, are very likely to play this deal as straight as they can. The fact that we can see loopholes for a sufficiently-motivated antagonistic reading to exploit does not mean anything against us if we can expect no antagonistic readings.
The Hokage vote is far and away the most important vote the Uchiha are participating in, and they're abstaining because they're worried that if they voted against the Hyuuga then the Hyuuga will be upset enough to destroy the Uchiha. It's an existential fear. I feel like the Uchiha are not likely to pull the abstain card unless the vote is of similar importance to the Hyuuga and also results in an existential sort of fear in the Uchiha.
And as for the number of votes, I've been over this before. Simply put, most of the council votes don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Is X Chuunin ready for promotion to Jounin? There's no point wasting a marker on that vote. We have enough vote markers that, when there's an actually important decision being made, that directly impacts the future of Leaf and the progress of Uplift, we can use markers for that. We don't control every vote the Uchiha make, but we can control every important vote the Uchiha make.
And that's not even mentioning the votes that are already won or are a lost cause. We only need to use the Uchiha vote markers on votes that a) really matter to us, and b) could go either way.
The Hokage vote is far and away the most important vote the Uchiha are participating in, and they're abstaining because they're worried that if they voted against the Hyuuga then the Hyuuga will be upset enough to destroy the Uchiha. It's an existential fear. I feel like the Uchiha are not likely to pull the abstain card unless the vote is of similar importance to the Hyuuga and also results in an existential sort of fear in the Uchiha.
And as for the number of votes, I've been over this before. Simply put, most of the council votes don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Is X Chuunin ready for promotion to Jounin? There's no point wasting a marker on that vote. We have enough vote markers that, when there's an actually important decision being made, that directly impacts the future of Leaf and the progress of Uplift, we can use markers for that. We don't control every vote the Uchiha make, but we can control every important vote the Uchiha make.
And that's not even mentioning the votes that are already won or are a lost cause. We only need to use the Uchiha vote markers on votes that a) really matter to us, and b) could go either way.
- Location
- Why would this be required?
I disagree and think this a bit too pessimistic. We can at the very least ensure one vote not against us and likely guranteed support on votes that advance our goals but aren't groundbreaking, like putting goketsu-friendly ninja in high positions and other things.
As for the Sharingan issue, first off with Hazo. He's almost 15 and has been through some terrifying/hellish experiences in his years as a missing nin marked for death. Let's face it, if he had the sharingan it should have manifested by now. As for his children. They would already be slotted for political marriage as a result of both their father's position in the clan and their bloodline. I don't see the issue with said kids marrying into and gaining a high position in the Uchiha, seems like it works for us actually. Plus that's only if they develop a sharingan, which is possible but again unlikely.
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