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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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[X] Action Plan: Reasonable Handling of New Information Mk CCLXVII Now With Less Keiko.
  • Grab Noburi and show the letter to Jiraiya. Help him find a clean shirt. In the process, quickly confirm conclusions:
    • Letter #1 was deliberately leaked through a compromised courier. Implication: Courier #2 wasn't compromised.
    • Letter #2 leaves us an opportunity to go along with the marriage (if it wasn't leaked), and signals that Ami'll drop it if we won't
    • Letter #1 was pretty aggressive: likely signals that she strongly prefers the former option. Testing Courier #1 was secondary.
    • If we run out of time, cover these later.
  • Finally get Noburi's full opinion on the situation.
    • Let him unwind, we need a sane perspective on this affair.
  • Go bet on Keiko
  • Once Jiraiya returns, discuss the situation (include Noburi and Keiko; high-OPSEC conditions):
    • How long before we leave Mist?
    • Second meeting with Ami. Should it happen? If so:
      • Should we seek a honest answer regarding whether she's in danger/wants a political marriage?
      • Would require better OPSEC. A walk across the bay, then a picnic?
      • We're a bit shaken from recent events. Any advice?
    • If Jiraiya approves, send a letter. Contents:
      • Decline the favour.
      • Set up the second meeting.
        • Place: "near" a random restaurant.
        • Time: tomorrow? (Jiraiya's call.)
      • Two can play this whole: end the letter with a cryptic haiku that leaves way too much to interpretation.
      • Go for a stroll to pick her a beautiful bouquet, you can feel it: love is in the air.
    • Ask what is the agenda for the evening (will there be official ceremonies? Are the Aburame mad?)
  • Clear this section with Jiraiya:
    • Watch today's match.
    • Verify Ami's story (if time permits).
      • Byakuren's Cookbook: name-drop Ami for regulars-only menu.
      • Persuade Chouji to visit a few restaurants, inquire about their history. (We're paying.) Points of interest:
        • Connection between Byakuren's Cookbook and Experimental Cuisine.
        • Byakuren's Cookbook serving large groups of ninja.
    • If anyone talks about Hazou and Ami: no comment.


294 words. I removed the Keiko bits (I really don't think now's the time, she needs to sulk first) and instead we'll have Noburi tell us why Hazou is a worthless human being. Afterwards we'll go flowers hunting. Would a chakra flowers bouquet be romantic?
 
Gee, I really want to leave Mist, but the unfortunate thing is that we still have so much crap to do!

  • Mom Convo
  • Ami
  • Misc. Stuff we should do while all the continent's merchants are here.
 
QTesseract said:
I noticed and rated that post. I'm sorry for implying otherwise. I don't think this is remotely enough enthusiasm from the player base in response, but you did notice it.

This might not be shadow clones, but it's not far off in terms of riskless ops, and has plenty advantages too. It's a shame that we don't like the pangolins, since otherwise we could trivially make this stupidly exploitable by helping them and the toads conquer everyone and free up their military for our uses; once they are no longer needed for combat ops, Noburi + Keiko + draining leaf ninja could give us a death squad of elite fighters that return from the grave. They could all have suicide techniques (where the suicide technique can even be sets offf a ton of explosives), they can completely neglect exit plans, there's no need to worry about exchanging crippling injuries for letting teammates obtain the objective, no need to worry about special innovations being copied because only we have summons....

We should really try and find a summoning clan we can get along with, or at least Coup the pangolins.
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Reverse-summon notes the exact spot where it was made and you can only return in this same location. I wouldn't want to go to the place where a ton of explosives exploded.

MMKII said:
I'm not sure we should be doing that exact same plan and/or do it without heavy modifications depending on whether or not the start time is different.
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The Ami part of the plan is still on the table, though. And since we may have to leave Mist quite soon we need to get rid of this ASAP. Not to mention that we still haven't declined her till'n'fill help suggestion. I don't want Hazou to owe her and neither does anyone I've read so far.
Also, that plan is quite solid base for anything we can come up imo.

Velorien said:
If it's something you could plausibly have written into the original plan but chose not to, it's probably abuse. As to IC, Hazō would probably be imagining two scenarios.

Keiko wins:

HAZŌ: Oh, by the way, Keiko, I decided to bet lots of money on you because I was confident you'd win without my planning.

KEIKO: Yes, that is material evidence that you have faith in my and the pangolins' collective abilities. Obviously, you bet in the knowledge that it would be the pangolins doing all the heavy lifting because I am worthless, but at least you trusted me not to cancel out their abilities with my sheer incompetence. Thank you.

Keiko loses:

HAZŌ: Oh, by the way, Keiko, I decided to bet lots of money on you because I was confident you'd win without my planning.

KEIKO: Clearly you were wrong to have confidence in me because I am a terrible person who cannot plan without your help, and an even more terrible person for rejecting that help, and now my terribleness has cost you your money because you had faith in me and I failed you. I understand now that I never deserved your trust, and will promptly throw myself into the nearest lake so as not to risk depleting clan funds again in the future.
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I do remember several posts proposing to bet a lot of money on us in the matches so it would be the thing I would bet on regardless. And that is not even a big gamble. We already saw Keiko beating Shino in the 5th event. I guess we just got sidetracked. Thank you again, Ami.
 
MadScientist said:
The only time I'm aware of us being directly blocked from improving the situation was just now (unless you count general attitudes to the effect of "no, because that's OOC knowledge" which prompted the creation of the Perceptive Hazou Initiative).

As to things I would vote for (apart from what I just did vote for), if I thought it would do any good it's entirely plausible that I would do more social analyses and attempt to feed them directly into Hazou's brain. I've proposed doing so in the past, but either QMs or players (can't remember which) didn't like the idea.
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I can't remember if it was a QM or player objection either, but as a QM looking at it now, I would certainly object to anything being fed directly into Hazō's brain without reference to his characterisation or IC circumstances. I don't see how that would be fundamentally different to feeding him tech ideas. Hazō can be pointed in directions which result in the invention of the things you want, but he's a character rather than an avatar.

MadScientist said:
If he can realise it if we make a plan to point it out to him, then @Velorien shouldn't have had a problem with my vote. But he did have a problem with it.
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You mean Action Plan: Realise Kei is Dating Tenten? As an action plan, it throws the Perceptive Hazō Initiative at the QM without factoring in Hazō's characterisation or indeed any other factors. Honestly, it reads like a meme vote or an expression of frustration rather than something you expect people to vote on and then QMs to write.

Compare the plan for Chapter 226: Redefining Relationships: clear, in line with Hazō's existing characterisation, and plan-like in listing a series of practical actions which are likely to lead to the desired outcome. It also drew on Hazō's memories in an amount that made him look like there were some unusual and/or significant events that stuck in his mind, rather than being an analytical engine.
 
TarzanNn said:
I do remember several posts proposing to bet a lot of money on us in the matches so it would be the thing I would bet on regardless. And that is not even a big gamble. We already saw Keiko beating Shino in the 5th event. I guess we just got sidetracked. Thank you again, Ami.
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You just saw Keiko beating Shino in the 5th event. Those were the Finals.

Edit: Ignore me, I'm running on too little sleep. Always.
 
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QTesseract said:
I noticed and rated that post. I'm sorry for implying otherwise. I don't think this is remotely enough enthusiasm from the player base in response, but you did notice it.

This might not be shadow clones, but it's not far off in terms of riskless ops, and has plenty advantages too. It's a shame that we don't like the pangolins, since otherwise we could trivially make this stupidly exploitable by helping them and the toads conquer everyone and free up their military for our uses; once they are no longer needed for combat ops, Noburi + Keiko + draining leaf ninja could give us a death squad of elite fighters that return from the grave. They could all have suicide techniques (where the suicide technique can even be sets offf a ton of explosives), they can completely neglect exit plans, there's no need to worry about exchanging crippling injuries for letting teammates obtain the objective, no need to worry about special innovations being copied because only we have summons....

We should really try and find a summoning clan we can get along with, or at least Coup the pangolins.
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Because we already knew that she could do so, it'd just never come up.

Unrelatedly, @Velorien @eaglejarl @OliWhail: How much longer will we be staying in Mist without getting permission to stay doubleplus long? Relevant for Ami-related plans.
 
I believe we likely already have bets in place for Keiko winning the finals (as well as bets in place for Hazou and Noburi winning the finals) as per:

MMKII said:
Place multiple bets with a third of our money. The Team decides how.
  • Hedge! Examples:
  • Keiko vs. Noburi in the finals: Noburi wins.
  • Hazou vs Noburi: Noburi wins.
  • etc.
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I would make a remark about betting odds at the beginning of the tournament giving higher payout than right before the finals match, but Pangolin Summoner.
 
TarzanNn said:
Reverse-summon notes the exact spot where it was made and you can only return in this same location. I wouldn't want to go to the place where a ton of explosives exploded.
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I wouldn't either, but there's no need to. Pangolins can travel; they can move from where they are summoned to go on the mission, rather than just stand around and explode at the spot because ???
 
Cariyaga said:
Because we already knew that she could do so, it'd just never come up.

Unrelatedly, @Velorien @eaglejarl @OliWhail: How much longer will we be staying in Mist without getting permission to stay doubleplus long? Relevant for Ami-related plans.
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Jiraiya has been fuzzy on the date because of the ongoing negotiations, but at a guess, several days.

MMKII said:
I believe we likely already have bets in place for Keiko winning the finals (as well as bets in place for Hazou and Noburi winning the finals)
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Fair. However, I would rule that placing new bets on events whose outcome is already known to be against the spirit of time travel.

Well, it's totally in the spirit of time travel, but this isn't that kind of quest.
 
@MadScientist

One route available is simply to canonize your initiative in flesh and blood via Hazou keeping a journal (it's disguised as a book) in storage seal #68 of all his personal interactions with people on a day to day basis.

This would at least create a continuous IC effort to be more aware of what other people do.

Velorien said:
Well, it's totally in the spirit of time travel, but this isn't that kind of quest.
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Oh absolutely. Although, you might want to watch what you say. We might very well invent time travel in like a decade!
 
MMKII said:
@MadScientist

One route available is simply to canonize your initiative in flesh and blood via Hazou keeping a journal (it's disguised as a book) in storage seal #68 of all his personal interactions with people on a day to day basis.

This would at least create a continuous IC effort to be more aware of what other people do.


Oh absolutely. Although, you might want to watch what you say. We might very well invent time travel in like a decade!
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Does it really make sense to say you invented time travel at, well, a given time?
 
I'm not saying Hazou went back in time and 'rescued' his dad to the future, but it would work as a time loop...
 
Cariyaga said:
Alrighty, good then. We can put off sending the second date request until we get a word in edgewise with Keiko.
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Keiko doesn't really need to return to the Human Path for any length of time until we leave Mist, so I don't think we can expect to get a talk with Keiko in the time we have left here. And we have to handle the Ami situation one way or the other, so I'd rather not spend our remaining days sitting around in the hope that Keiko decides to come back so we can talk to her.

(Still don't have time to overhaul the plan with new information right now, but I've got time to make a comment or two here and there)
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Keiko doesn't really need to return to the Human Path for any length of time until we leave Mist, so I don't think we can expect to get a talk with Keiko in the time we have left here. And we have to handle the Ami situation one way or the other, so I'd rather not spend our remaining days sitting around in the hope that Keiko decides to come back so we can talk to her.

(Still don't have time to overhaul the plan with new information right now, but I've got time to make a comment or two here and there)
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No, of course she doesn't. But we can (probably) send a message back with Pandaa before he leaves and get her to come back.
 
I can tell it's going to be one of those days.

MMKII said:
One route available is simply to canonize your initiative in flesh and blood via Hazou keeping a journal
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Someone's been replaying Planescape: Torment.

MMKII said:
Oh absolutely. Although, you might want to watch what you say. We might very well invent time travel in like a decade!
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Someone's been playing Tales of Maj'Eyal: "Mari-sensei, you know that retroengineered seal I was experimenting with? I think I broke time."
 
Cariyaga said:
No, of course she doesn't. But we can (probably) send a message back with Pandaa before he leaves and get her to come back.
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Ah right. I'm not sure if we've got control that far back, but if so we could send a message asking to talk after the finals. Then, if she shows up we can talk to her and if she doesn't then we can keep schedule with Ami anyways.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
That's what happens when you bug Keiko too much.

/rimshot

So, how many ways can we horrifically abuse being able to put summons on the human path while the summoner is safe on the seventh path? For that matter, can the summoner take other humans to the seventh path with them to keep them safe too while summons murderize people?
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Whenever Keiko is fighting without the rest of Team Uplift:
Summon Pankurashun and Pandaa.
Have Pandaa reverse summon her to 7th path.
Wait until Pankurashun comes back. Debrief him.
If he won, hop back down to the human path. If not, wait until your chakra regenerates, and try again.
 
Sentient Tree said:
Whenever Keiko is fighting without the rest of Team Uplift:
Summon Pankurashun and Pandaa.
Have Pandaa reverse summon her to 7th path.
Wait until Pankurashun comes back. Debrief him.
If he won, hop back down to the human path. If not, wait until your chakra regenerates, and try again.
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So what I'm hearing is we need to get more summoning scrolls.
 
Lord Marshal said:
If Keiko explicitly went out of her way to engineer a situation where she would hurt Shino more than necessary, then you would be right.
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This is what I interpreted these lines to imply:

eaglejarl said:
"GAAAAAHHHH! Stopitstopitstopitstopitstopitstopit stop licking me!!!" Shino screamed, flailing and dancing in place.

"Thank you for screaming instead of surrendering."

"I sur—"

A flick of chakra armed the explosive tag. A quick set of handseals and the words "Pangolin Clan Technique: Pantokrator's Hammer!" gave her strength and power. Thousands of hours of skill connected the hand to the kunai to a line that led straight through Aburame's left foot to the dirt. The blade pinned him in place for the sliver of time until the explosive detonated and lifted him three inches in the air. He hit the ground and dropped like a sack of meat, screaming and clutching his testicles.
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That is, Keiko purposely denying Shino the chance to finish saying "I surrender" by throwing a kunai through his foot and blowing him up.

On re-reading, I realize that a more charitable interpretation would be Keiko already having started throwing the kunai before perceiving Shino's attempted surrender, making the whole thing a bit less cruel.

Then again, she says: "Thank you for screaming instead of surrendering.", which to me seems like a roundabout and snarky way of telling Shino: "hey, you could stop the horrifying tongue doing horrifying things by surrendering, you know". Followed immediatly by a kunai through the foot.
Kinda like the cat in Kafka's Little Fable :D
 
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