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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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I can't really picture Ami marrying Hazou and staying estranged with Keiko. The whole situation just looks too much like Ami setting up a plot that advances this goal as well as her others. Consider: if Ami marries into the Goketsu and then moves into Leaf (or heck, maintains two residences across villages), then she's far enough away from the Mori that she can be with Keiko without any problems.

The main problem right now is that Ami can't extensively interact with Keiko without the Mori being able to get their hands on her; good luck trying that when they're both a country away.
 
Tua said:
Does not wanting to give a present count?

I want Hazou to just cut through the chase. Ask her whether she needs our help for real and what the deal is between Keiko and her. If she agrees to be truthful (as far as we can tell anyway which probably isn't that much), continue the "date".

Otherwise leave and tell her that she should contact us once she is ready for this to become a committed and serious relationship.
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I strongly agree: no presents, no bullshit, serious topics covered first. I really like Ami and would like to have her in the clan, but I don't want to keep second-guessing her agendas: it would turn plans to disastrous flowcharts :sour:
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Consider: if Ami marries into the Goketsu and then moves into Leaf (or heck, maintains two residences across villages), then she's far enough away from the Mori that she can be with Keiko without any problems.

The main problem right now is that Ami can't extensively interact with Keiko without the Mori being able to get their hands on her; good luck trying that when they're both a country away.
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Clearly, we need to invent a form of fast travel that's safe and effective.
 
There's also the consideration that Shikamaru's public proposal may be sufficient for Ami to consider Keiko capable of navigating Mori interlopers.
 
Cariyaga said:
There's also the consideration that Shikamaru's public proposal may be sufficient for Ami to consider Keiko capable of navigating Mori interlopers.
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I don't get it. How are these two related?

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Kiba said:
Skywalkers sorta count, but the only advantage skywalkers at the moment have is that you can basically skip any sort of terrain. Ninja still run 20 mph.
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...while skywalkers allow to ignore terrain completely which allows us overall increase in miles per day even though mph is lower. And since no one have reverse-engineered them yet, it means we also skip any not-capable-of-flying ninjas. Really, skysquids are only threat there.

Oh, and condors summoner, I guess.
 
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TarzanNn said:
I don't get it. How are these two related?
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Ami wanted to stay away from Keiko until she came into her own within the Nara, and could thus fend off Mori manipulations.

I'm not sure whether the official declaration of betrothal would count as this, but I'm leaning no. It's not about the official support you have, it's about having the wherewithal to use it. If Keiko was vulnerable to the Mori before she still will be now.
 
TarzanNn said:
I don't get it. How are these two related?

e:


...while skywalkers allow to ignore terrain completely which allows us overall increase in miles per day even though mph is lower. And since no one have reverse-engineered them yet, it means we also skip any not-capable-of-flying ninjas. Really, skysquids are only threat there.

Oh, and condors summoner, I guess.
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Speed is not slower for skywalkers. They still run at ninja speed. Just that there's no terrain to stop and slow them down.

I measured and took the distance of roughly 475 miles from Konohagakure to Kirigakure. 475 / 20 is about 23.75 hours worth of running, as well as the necessary production of at least 95 seals(4 skywalker seals each hour for both feet).

23.75 hours or around two days roundtrip is nice, but not enough for a ninja to casually live or work at both village if we also account for rest and breaks.

If we assume highway speed(70 mph), we can see travel lag dwindles down to nearly 7 hours or 14 hours roundtrip.

140 mph means you can go back and forth between the villages in roughly the span of a single workday.
 
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Kiba said:
Of course, we install something like semaphore towers, communication lag will be cut drastically and it will be much easier to run Fire and Water as one country.
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I don't think semaphores are coming soon. There're just too many threats in the wilderness, so a ninja squad should operate each tower. Thats at least chuunin + 3 genins per tower.

I'm not sure what will be the number of towers needed since terrain can obscure them, but even if we position one tower per 20 miles (wiki says 5 to 20) its 23 towers from Mist to Leaf. I doubt anyone can spare so many ninjas for the task, not to mention the rotation needed for the teams.
 
TarzanNn said:
I don't think semaphores are coming soon. There're just too many threats in the wilderness, so a ninja squad should operate each tower. Thats at least chuunin + 3 genins per tower.

I'm not sure what will be the number of towers needed since terrain can obscure them, but even if we position one tower per 20 miles (wiki says 5 to 20) its 23 towers from Mist to Leaf. I doubt anyone can spare so many ninjas for the task, not to mention the rotation needed for the teams.
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If you put the towers in the sky, you don't need to worry about terrain obscuring or even chakra beasts. OTOH, more logistic requirement for the production of 5SB seals.
 
Kiba said:
If we assume highway speed(70 mph), we can see travel lag dwindles down to nearly 7 hours or 14 hours roundtrip.

140 mph means you can go back and forth between the villages in roughly the span of a single workday.
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Wind-powered monorail built on the skytowers, perhaps? A wind seals is a thing apparently, so they could be used to not rely on weather.

Kiba said:
If you put the towers in the sky, you don't need to worry about terrain obscuring or even chakra beasts. OTOH, more logistic requirement for the production of 5SB seals.
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I considered this, but a) IMO we're not ready to share skytowers with the whole world and b) besides of seals there's also issue of maintenance for semaphores themself - they need repairs from time to time and its much easier to do them when your fall wouldn't kill you.

aaaaand, assuming mfd world is not flat, there's still obscuring of the planet, plus dissipation of the light in the atmosphere... even on skytowers it would take a lot of them. Though we can try to calculate all cons and pros just to have a plan ready :)
 
MMKII said:
Does anyone have strong present preferences?
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I'm toying with the idea of one of Keikos fancy 2 explosive tag kunais, polished to look fancy. (Obviously make a new one, don't ask for or take one of Keikos.)

Why?
  • It's a weapon, which signals danger. However, we are giving her the weapon, which signals trust and respect.
  • It's a very "keiko" item, specifically one that she uses when things go south. I'd expect Ami to be able to piece things together.
  • If we load it with the tags before giving it to her it's also a token of trust from all of the Goketsu seal masters, meaning Jiraiya.

Consult with the big J before giving a foreign agent a weapon of course.
 
TarzanNn said:
Wind-powered monorail built on the skytowers, perhaps? A wind seals is a thing apparently, so they could be used to not rely on weather.



I considered this, but a) IMO we're not ready to share skytowers with the whole world and b) besides of seals there's also issue of maintenance for semaphores themself - they need repairs from time to time and its much easier to do them when your fall wouldn't kill you.

aaaaand, assuming mfd world is not flat, there's still obscuring of the planet, plus dissipation of the light in the atmosphere... even on skytowers it would take a lot of them. Though we can try to calculate all cons and pros just to have a plan ready :)
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The whole concept of semaphore hinges on the use of images or lights as the method of communication. There should be very little maintenance involved. Skytower seals, meanwhile, last roughly for 30 days.
 
Even still, communications is really important for holding empires together and if we want Leaf/Mist to be anything more than an alliance (or loose vassalage) we'll need fast communication between the villages.

Honestly, having two summoners relay messages through the Seventh Path every hour starts to sound like an acceptable solution if you can't make semaphores work.
 
Velorien said:
I imagine anyone who's heard enough sealmaster horror stories knows what an artificial intelligence is. They even know how to potentially create one.
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Like a homunculus? That'd be neat/terrifying considering. It'd be funny if most of the horrible shit that exists out in the wild is entirely the result of sealing failures and human experimentation. Though that would also further hammer home just how much of the setting's danger and suffering is humanity's own fault, or at least on the few fools that have to ruin living for everyone else.
 
Kiba said:
The whole concept of semaphore hinges on the use of images or lights as the method of communication. There should be very little maintenance involved. Skytower seals, meanwhile, last roughly for 30 days.
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Uh-huh, and you have to re-assemble the semaphore part of the tower each time the skytower needs new 5SB. I don't think its worth it at least with current economic situation in the EN.

Inferno Vulpix said:
Even still, communications is really important for holding empires together and if we want Leaf/Mist to be anything more than an alliance (or loose vassalage) we'll need fast communication between the villages.

Honestly, having two summoners relay messages through the Seventh Path every hour starts to sound like an acceptable solution if you can't make semaphores work.
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Yeah, but that would need Mist to not only have a summoner of their own, but also for him to be a summoner of the clan allied with Toads/Pangolins. We can ask big J to ask Ren, though, assuming he is interested in the idea at all.

And I think we need to expand whatever communication we're trying to create to the all hidden villages (at least major 5), unless we want a retaliation from all of them. Besides spying on them will become so much easier. ;)
 
Shadowwarp said:
Like a homunculus? That'd be neat/terrifying considering. It'd be funny if most of the horrible shit that exists out in the wild is entirely the result of sealing failures and human experimentation. Though that would also further hammer home just how much of the setting's danger and suffering is humanity's own fault, or at least on the few fools that have to ruin living for everyone else.
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I would love for you to find out the worldbuilding we've done for these things, but I don't know how Hazō would find it out.

On a completely unrelated note, didn't you once leave an open rift to the blade horror dimension somewhere in Iron?
 
TarzanNn said:
Uh-huh, and you have to re-assemble the semaphore part of the tower each time the skytower needs new 5SB. I don't think its worth it at least with current economic situation in the EN.



Yeah, but that would need Mist to not only have a summoner of their own, but also for him to be a summoner of the clan allied with Toads/Pangolins. We can ask big J to ask Ren, though, assuming he is interested in the idea at all.

And I think we need to expand whatever communication we're trying to create to the all hidden villages (at least major 5), unless we want a retaliation from all of them. Besides spying on them will become so much easier. ;)
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Your problems are accurate, but again if we can't get semaphores working it'll start to look like a potential solution. It's not like we're going to crack radio in a year, at least.

Given that we're sealmasters, I think it's within our capabilities to figure out the sealtech required for infrastructure like this. If we can take all the physical components of a semaphore station and put them in storage seals (XL if needbe), we can create a convenient seal-bundle that a ninja could store in their back pocket and assemble a fresh semaphore from nothing if needbe.

Assuming we can get the physical components in sufficient quantity (and if we only need to connect the five main villages it's not that bad) and Hazou is willing to dedicate some of his time to producing the requisite seals, this should be possible. And again, high-speed communication is important for large empires, otherwise the capital has no idea what's going on in the rest of the world until weeks after it's happened.

e: that said, we can't crack radio in a year but we might be able to figure out radio seals. Sending seal creates radio waves while active and receiving seal listens for radio waves and creates sound when it hears them, add some morse code and you've got communication.
 
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Inferno Vulpix said:
Assuming we can get the physical components in sufficient quantity (and if we only need to connect the five main villages it's not that bad) and Hazou is willing to dedicate some of his time to producing the requisite seals, this should be possible. And again, high-speed communication is important for large empires, otherwise the capital has no idea what's going on in the rest of the world until weeks after it's happened.
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I think we'll just need to do the prototype. Everyone would be interested in having instant communication and thus we can just delegate the stuff.

...or we can make a monopoly of it. I think even Merchants Council wouldn't deny us this. Traders need communication as much as everyone else to, for example, research market before taking their goods for hundreds of miles away from home. Oh, and I would love to create mfd analogue of Enigma to crack yakuza coded messages :)
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Your problems are accurate, but again if we can't get semaphores working it'll start to look like a potential solution. It's not like we're going to crack radio in a year, at least.

Given that we're sealmasters, I think it's within our capabilities to figure out the sealtech required for infrastructure like this. If we can take all the physical components of a semaphore station and put them in storage seals (XL if needbe), we can create a convenient seal-bundle that a ninja could store in their back pocket and assemble a fresh semaphore from nothing if needbe.

Assuming we can get the physical components in sufficient quantity (and if we only need to connect the five main villages it's not that bad) and Hazou is willing to dedicate some of his time to producing the requisite seals, this should be possible. And again, high-speed communication is important for large empires, otherwise the capital has no idea what's going on in the rest of the world until weeks after it's happened.

e: that said, we can't crack radio in a year but we might be able to figure out radio seals. Sending seal creates radio waves while active and receiving seal listens for radio waves and creates sound when it hears them, add some morse code and you've got communication.
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Simplest communication is some sort of binary code for kana and/or prearranged codeword.

All you need is the ability to transmit light on and off.
 
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