Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

[Emstar]

I would love to have tea with Ren, do something interesting with the other Genin here, or the other Jounin, or talk to the merchants or what have you.

I don't think this is likely to get voted in because:

1) People here are overly paranoid about THE BIG BAD SOCIAL SPECS (despite it being outright stated by at least one QM that stats do not auto-win you social interactions).
2) Folks are now going to be paranoid about us being kidnapped/stabbed and left for dead in a back alley due to the armor thing.


As per the tournament fights: I admit I'm not to keen on trying to munchkin clever combat plans together, especially versus Keiko. I had some decent ones prepared for the rest of the fight, but they all relied on different variations of "Blow yourself up." , which is now soft-banned.

(Similarly, that little conversation has brought to mind: Why would we want to show any of our moderately good/secret tricks in this thing?

After some thought I think the answer is that if we can't beat everyone through some combination of (Punching Their Fucking Face In) or (Literally All Of the Explosives [But With a Clever Delivery Vector!]) ... then I don't think its worth it. )

 

[Tua]

"One of the reasons to be part of the tournament arc is because it forwards our political goals by putting us in proximity to almost literally every important person in the EN while providing us a support structure that can probably keep us from making too many major mistakes. Another reason is because it forwards our merchant-empire goals by putting us in proximity to almost literally every major merchant in the EN. Another reason is because it forwards our intelligence-network goal by putting us in proximity with a group of Yakuza with whom we have at least the beginnings of a positive relationship. Another reason is because it forwards our Pax Konoha goals by putting us in proximity to some of the best genin in the EN, along with their jōnin-sensei, and thereby allows us to make contacts with other nations that can be used diplomatically in the future. Another reason is because it forwards our Uplift goals by putting us in proximity with a variety of civilians from multiple walks of life and socioeconomic classes, whom we could use as a source of information about (a) what civilians need and want, (b) how civilians interact with ninja, and (c) offers a different cultural perspective on these things that we can compare/contrast to those of Fire once we get home. Another reason is because it shows us what sort of combat strategies we are weak against (e.g. being immobilized and then hit with AOE) so that we can better optimize our builds or plan tactics. Another reason is because it lets us interact with our former clans and other people from our past, thereby providing character development opportunities. Were I to sit and think for five minutes, I could probably come up with other reasons, but I have already found enough that perhaps the arc is not pointless and can actually be fun if I make and/or vote for plans that appeal to my preferences."

Click to shrink...

I agree completely, both with the literal and implied message.

I have wanted to meet our ex-clans for a long time now but being reactionary or avoiding socials "because it's hard" makes this really hard to push for during votes. We are overly cautious at the moment, I feel.

Caution has it's place but we can afford to be a bit bolder, IMO.

 

[Cariyaga]

I would love to have tea with Ren, do something interesting with the other Genin here, or the other Jounin, or talk to the merchants or what have you.

I don't think this is likely to get voted in because:

1) People here are overly paranoid about THE BIG BAD SOCIAL SPECS (despite it being outright stated by at least one QM that stats do not auto-win you social interactions).
2) Folks are now going to be paranoid about us being kidnapped/stabbed and left for dead in a back alley due to the armor thing.


As per the tournament fights: I admit I'm not to keen on trying to munchkin clever combat plans together, especially versus Keiko. I had some decent ones prepared for the rest of the fight, but they all relied on different variations of "Blow yourself up." , which is now soft-banned.

(Similarly, that little conversation has brought to mind: Why would we want to show any of our moderately good/secret tricks in this thing?

After some thought I think the answer is that if we can't beat everyone through some combination of (Punching Their Fucking Face In) or (Literally All Of the Explosives [But With a Clever Delivery Vector!]) ... then I don't think its worth it. )

Click to shrink...

Honestly, I still think that there should be an opposed Athletics roll to engage on someone that doesn't want you to. It seems... strange that it's not the case. I mean, look waaaaaay back at the quest's inception:

When we got the Roki fighting style picked up, we had another option: Righteous Face Punching (yes, really). Its feature, if my memory does not fail me, was that you rolled it instead of Tactical Movement (the previous version of Athletics) to engage on enemies.

 

[Emstar]

Honestly, I still think that there should be an opposed Athletics roll to engage on someone that doesn't want you to. It seems... strange that it's not the case. I mean, look waaaaaay back at the quest's inception:

Click to shrink...

This is equivalently modelled by you rolling Athletics vs their attack/block to get out of dodge though.

 

[Cariyaga]

I agree completely, both with the literal and implied message.

I have wanted to meet our ex-clans for a long time now but being reactionary or avoiding socials "because it's hard" makes this really hard to push for during votes. We are too overly cautious at the moment, I feel.

Caution has it's place but we can afford to be a bit bolder, IMO.

Click to shrink...

I would have been perfectly willing to meet Ren, Ami, or Noburi's family, with the appropriate people's go-ahead.

This is equivalently modelled by you rolling Athletics vs their attack/block to get out of dodge though.

Click to shrink...

So everyone naturally gets the effects of Righteous Face Punching?

 

[MadScientist]

"One of the reasons to be part of the tournament arc is because it forwards our political goals by putting us in proximity to almost literally every important person in the EN while providing us a support structure that can probably keep us from making too many major mistakes. Another reason is because it forwards our merchant-empire goals by putting us in proximity to almost literally every major merchant in the EN. Another reason is because it forwards our intelligence-network goal by putting us in proximity with a group of Yakuza with whom we have at least the beginnings of a positive relationship. Another reason is because it forwards our Pax Konoha goals by putting us in proximity to some of the best genin in the EN, along with their jōnin-sensei, and thereby allows us to make contacts with other nations that can be used diplomatically in the future. Another reason is because it forwards our Uplift goals by putting us in proximity with a variety of civilians from multiple walks of life and socioeconomic classes, whom we could use as a source of information about (a) what civilians need and want, (b) how civilians interact with ninja, and (c) offers a different cultural perspective on these things that we can compare/contrast to those of Fire once we get home. Another reason is because it shows us what sort of combat strategies we are weak against (e.g. being immobilized and then hit with AOE) so that we can better optimize our builds or plan tactics. Another reason is because it lets us interact with our former clans and other people from our past, thereby providing character development opportunities. Were I to sit and think for five minutes, I could probably come up with other reasons, but I have already found enough that perhaps the arc is not pointless and can actually be fun if I make and/or vote for plans that appeal to my preferences."

Click to shrink...

I think the main problem is that a lot of these things seem like they would take significantly more time or effort than we can afford, to get useful results from.

Yes, we could try to make diplomatic contacts in the foreign genin, but a lot of those genin hate us after the events of the exams, and changing their attitudes looks like it would be the work of multiple updates (probably more than three or four, because we would be working against not only Hazou's reputation, but his lack of social graces and our own tendency to accidentally invite diplomats to step in and prevent our attempted seduction of their villagemates) and the tournament will be over in less than a week (a lot of which we will spend fighting and/or watching fights) if I'm reading the scheduling right. Same problems with organising information networks with the yakuza, or making deals with merchants.

You do make a good point about surveying the views of civilians, but this is something we could do outside of the tournament context.

Unless I've missed something, and there's going to be a week between the semifinals and finals, then it doesn't seem like we'll get an opportunity to do any major activities. The exceptions being very risky plays like talking to Ami or organising a Kage game night that feel like they should need more than "I'm doing this now." in terms of preparation.

 

[Tua]

Asking for a friend but Ren supposedly was of Chunin rank before she became Mizukage, right?

Do you guys think Hazou can take her, 1vs1?

Also, remind me again: if you defeat the Mizukage do you become the new Mizukage or am I thinking of a different manga?


Remember, the meek shall inherit nothing.

I replayed Syndicate Wars and the Church's Book of Cataclysm just immensly quotable phrases so don't mind me shoehoring them in wherever I can.

 

[Inferno Vulpix]

1) People here are overly paranoid about THE BIG BAD SOCIAL SPECS (despite it being outright stated by at least one QM that stats do not auto-win you social interactions).

Click to shrink...

I don't wholly disagree, but I think there's more to say about this.

• Not only does Ren presumably have very good social stats, she's characterized as an expert in socials too. Any interaction with her, rolls or no, would have her much more adept at the social games than Hazou.
• The kinds of situations where stats are likely to be rolled are adversarial confrontations, and depending on where Ren takes the conversation it would not be surprising for things to end up close enough to adversarial for the dice to come out.
• If Ren teases out sensitive information (or we accidentally reveal it on our own) then Mist gets a leg up on Leaf for free.

I don't think it'd be a crazy disaster like revealing Skywalkers or getting mind-controlled by the omnipotence of social superiority, but I do think it's a serious risk to be taking for no expected gain other than it just being interesting to watch.

Asking for a friend but Ren supposedly was of Chunin rank before she became Mizukage, right?

Click to shrink...

Ren was a Chuunin when Hana got kicked out of the Kurosawa... well over a decade ago.

 

[Orisha91]

Supposing we don't win against Keiko, I was thinking our priorities could focus more on checking on the local and foreign merchants present. We've got a wealth of goods to spy out and all the opportunity to do it.

We should get Hazou and Noburi to immediately concentrate on optimizing strategies for Keiko's next bouts of course, but after that, we should really start studying the various products, goods, services in demand from the merchants and vendors, foot traffic, who's buying what, etc for the merchant empire.

Might be nice to bring Noburi along too so he can have something else to think about other than the tournament and it I think it allows hive-mind and Goketsu as a whole to decompress a bit. I'd like to begin trying non-military applications of our skills as well, if only for balance.

 

[Kiba]

Talk to Hana about having tea with Ren without being socialed.

 

[Cariyaga]

Talk to Hana about having tea with Ren without being socialed.

Click to shrink...

Hana's throwing a tantrum and doesn't want to talk to us until the tournament's over.

 

[eaglejarl]

I think the main problem is that a lot of these things seem like they would take significantly more time or effort than we can afford, to get useful results from.

Yes, we could try to make diplomatic contacts in the foreign genin, but a lot of those genin hate us after the events of the exams, and changing their attitudes looks like it would be the work of multiple updates (probably more than three or four, because we would be working against not only Hazou's reputation, but his lack of social graces and our own tendency to accidentally invite diplomats to step in and prevent our attempted seduction of their villagemates) and the tournament will be over in less than a week (a lot of which we will spend fighting and/or watching fights) if I'm reading the scheduling right. Same problems with organising information networks with the yakuza, or making deals with merchants.

You do make a good point about surveying the views of civilians, but this is something we could do outside of the tournament context.

Unless I've missed something, and there's going to be a week between the semifinals and finals, then it doesn't seem like we'll get an opportunity to do any major activities. The exceptions being very risky plays like talking to Ami or organising a Kage game night that feel like they should need more than "I'm doing this now." in terms of preparation.

Click to shrink...

I think you have rather missed my point. If you're bored, figure out something that interests you and vote for it. The possibility space of what you can do while in one of the largest cities in the EN is extremely large, and if you can't finish something in one update, or even before the end of the Exams...so what? Maybe you can convince Jiraiya to let you stay in Mist for a while once the Exams are done. Maybe you could come back later.

The entire point of a rational question is that if y'all are bored then it's because you didn't try. (Well, or because the writing sucks, but I'd like to think @Velorien and I at least clear that bar.)

 

[Emstar]

So everyone naturally gets the effects of Righteous Face Punching?

Click to shrink...

MECHANICS CRUNCH:
HAZOU: Taijutsu Roll! 65!!

GAI: Athletics Roll! Fuck Off LOL


Story:

Hazо̄ attempted to engage Gai with his Flames of Youth Righteous Face-punching Flurry! Unfortunately for him, Gai bolted away before he could even close the distance.

"Yosh! You cannot catch an opponent such as I with that level of effort, my pupil!"

'What!?That came from directly behind me!'

"Nothing personal my young apprentice...but you did ask me to take this seriously!"

Hazо̄ woke up two days later.

MECHANICS CRUNCH:
HAZOU: Taijutsu Roll! 67!!

LEE: Athletics Roll! 69!


Hazо̄ attempted to engage Lee with his Flames of Youth Righteous Face-punching Flurry! His fist rocketed towards Lee's bushy eyebrows with unerring accuracy, a youthful effort to wipe that youthful grin off of his youthful fucking face!

At the last second, Lee's head tilted out of the way, the blow barely grazing his face.

"A good punch indeed! You have grazed my fuzzy caterpillar! I must reciprocate your advance with a Strong Fist-ing of my own!"


MECHANICS CRUNCH:
HAZOU: Taijutsu Roll! 57!!
NOBBY: Athletics Roll! 54!


Hazо̄ attempted to engage Noburi with his Flames of Youth Righteous Face-punching Flurry! Noburi anticipated this and with lightning speed, he started to turn his center of mass into a dodge. Unfortunately for him, Hazо̄ was also one quick son of a bitch in close quarters combat. The punch landed on his shoulder, though the blow was mitigated by Noburi's current Getting-the-fuck-out-of-there acceleration.

"First blood to me," Hazо̄ smirked. "Care for another round?"


MECHANICS CRUNCH:
HAZOU: Taijutsu Roll! 57!!
KONOHAMARU: Athletics Roll! Not nearly enough.


Every muscle in Konohamaru's body was coiled, wound up like a steel wire. Maybe if he tried to throw himself to the side with as much force as his stubby prepubescent legs could handle...

Noburi blew the whistle.

A fist rocketed into his stomach before he could blink. He fell to the ground like a limp noodle, also before he could blink.

Ow.

"That's why I'm the teacher and you're the apprentice, apprentice. Now, let's abandon this idea of 'me fighting you seriously' and get back to working on our form, capisce?"




So like, whats the problem with that?

 

[Tua]

Hana's throwing a tantrum and doesn't want to talk to us until the tournament's over.

Click to shrink...

Don't think she said anything that final.

"Hazō, I love you and my home will always be your home, but right now, I think you have some thinking to do. I'll be praying for you in the tournament, and I'll make sure to have some cookie dough ready for when you come back."

Click to shrink...

I interpret that as her asking for some time but that condition could be fulfilled already now that a few days have passed.

 

[Emstar]

Well, or because the writing sucks, but I'd like to think @Velorien and I at least clear that bar.

Click to shrink...

This is absolutely not even in question

E: @OliWhail too!

 

[Emstar]

If Ren teases out sensitive information (or we accidentally reveal it on our own) then Mist gets a leg up on Leaf for free.

Click to shrink...

Conversational Plan:

• Don't talk about secret nonsense. Answer any and all questions about skills,seals, missions, and anything vaguely related to anything you can do as a ninja with some annoying ass diatribe about the power of youth.
  • Do not deviate from this regardless of what happens in the conversation.
  • If Ren seems to get pissed off at that, well, politely bring the conversation to an end and leave.

 

[Kiba]

Hana's throwing a tantrum and doesn't want to talk to us until the tournament's over.

Click to shrink...

Talk to Jiraiya.

 

[Orisha91]

Conversational Plan:

• Don't talk about secret nonsense. Answer any and all questions about skills with some annoying ass diatribe about the power of youth.
  • Do not deviate from this regardless of what happens in the conversation.
  • If Ren seems to get pissed off at that, well, politely bring the conversation to an end and leave.

Click to shrink...

Now that you say that...

The clan did send Keiko into the bowels of the beast with a well-prepped script for Panky. What happened to it? (Prays Hazou wrote it down or took notes)

Why aren't we using that to punch above our weight when yapping ourself?

 

[Emstar]

Now that you say that...

The clan did send Keiko into the bowels of the beast with a well-prepped script for Panky. What happened to it? (Prays Hazou wrote it down or took notes)

Why aren't we using that to punch above our weight when yapping ourself?

Click to shrink...

I dunno.

I mean "Just don't talk about X or anything related to X" is decent, but I imagine that if Ren was really trying she would be able to tease some sort of info out of us.

I can see reasons for us doing a nice 3 person lunch date with J, Hazou and Ren (so that he can at least assist us a bit there in case Ren wants to be a jerk).

I'm not opposed to this. I'm also not opposed to "Lunch with Ren, talk about light conversational stuff. Suggest offhandedly she release the ban on all of your toys. No? That's a shame. Well, leveling the arena would get us DQ-ed anyway! (Serious) Apologies for making your job a bit more difficult, it's nothing super personal."

 

[Lord Marshal]

Followup thought: Is it possible that you are interpreting this arc too straightforwardly and therefore ruining your own enjoyment? The sentiment you seem to be expressing is:

"The only reason to be part of the tournament arc is to show how Hazō fights and since we can't do that within the rules it's pointless and no fun."

I would suggest instead that you interpret it this way:

"One of the reasons to be part of the tournament arc is because it forwards our political goals by putting us in proximity to almost literally every important person in the EN while providing us a support structure that can probably keep us from making too many major mistakes. Another reason is because it forwards our merchant-empire goals by putting us in proximity to almost literally every major merchant in the EN. Another reason is because it forwards our intelligence-network goal by putting us in proximity with a group of Yakuza with whom we have at least the beginnings of a positive relationship. Another reason is because it forwards our Pax Konoha goals by putting us in proximity to some of the best genin in the EN, along with their jōnin-sensei, and thereby allows us to make contacts with other nations that can be used diplomatically in the future. Another reason is because it forwards our Uplift goals by putting us in proximity with a variety of civilians from multiple walks of life and socioeconomic classes, whom we could use as a source of information about (a) what civilians need and want, (b) how civilians interact with ninja, and (c) offers a different cultural perspective on these things that we can compare/contrast to those of Fire once we get home. Another reason is because it shows us what sort of combat strategies we are weak against (e.g. being immobilized and then hit with AOE) so that we can better optimize our builds or plan tactics. Another reason is because it lets us interact with our former clans and other people from our past, thereby providing character development opportunities. Were I to sit and think for five minutes, I could probably come up with other reasons, but I have already found enough that perhaps the arc is not pointless and can actually be fun if I make and/or vote for plans that appeal to my preferences."

If the hivemind remains passive, then Hazō's experience of the world will generally be predictable -- if he's at the Chūnin Exams tournament, he will fight in matches and watch other matches, otherwise remaining close to home so as not to cause problems. If, on the other hand, you vote to go out and make deals with merchants, or cheat at dice and thereby in the course of one evening earn yourself a real-world rich American's annual salary, or get your hated schoolmaster stripped of his office...well, then other things will happen.

Click to shrink...

This is true.

I propose talking to Ren and calling her out on the all the shit she and the Kurosawa put her sister through, because guilt tripping her would A)Make Hana position more secure B) be fucking cathartic C) give us insight on her thinking and did i mention being fucking cathartic?
("So, how did it betraying mum...sorry, i meant your sister,felt?""She betrayed the clan first" "And made me, sorry for being born, Auntie")
I would love the see her calmly explaining to her why our life was so shitty thanks to the Kurosawa.
That and maybe we can find information on how our dad died, just for closure, unless we already acquired this information and i missed it.
That and talking to Ami.
Maybe trying to meet Ryugamine for shit and giggles.
...
We could plant some rumors on Uplift among the civilians, ideas like "Ninja and non-ninja should help each other" and "Why ninja always fight", to help us in the long term.
We are in Mist, let's do something.

 

[MadScientist]

I think you have rather missed my point. If you're bored, figure out something that interests you and vote for it. The possibility space of what you can do while in one of the largest cities in the EN is extremely large, and if you can't finish something in one update, or even before the end of the Exams...so what? Maybe you can convince Jiraiya to let you stay in Mist for a while once the Exams are done. Maybe you could come back later.

The entire point of a rational question is that if y'all are bored then it's because you didn't try. (Well, or because the writing sucks, but I'd like to think @Velorien and I at least clear that bar.)

Click to shrink...

Oh, no, I totally understood your point, I just disagree with it in this scenario.

For starters, if we just picked something interesting [that furthered our goals] and voted for it then we would probably cause an incident of some kind. So the space of things we can do is bounded by "things that we are sufficiently confident won't just create more problems". This rules out things like talking to the oyabun without discussing matters with Jiraiya, talking to diplomats or Ami or the Kage or whoever, or challenging Ren to a duel for the Mizukage hat.

Though it hadn't occurred to me that we could ask for more time, (and that allays a lot of my concerns), the answer to the question "so what?" is "so we might as well have just timeskipped over the time we spent on that task that we couldn't complete".

And finally, there's the matter of actually campaigning to get the thread to do a thing. Personally, I did try on that front. I suggested to the hivemind to get Hazou to subvert Ikeda immediately after her match when she was emotionally drained and would be vulnerable to Hazou's manipulations. Nothing came of it until now and the context of the current plan is very different.

 

[faflec]

And finally, there's the matter of actually campaigning to get the thread to do a thing. Personally, I did try on that front. I suggested to the hivemind to get Hazou to subvert Ikeda immediately after her match when she was emotionally drained and would be vulnerable to Hazou's manipulations. Nothing came of it until now and the contex of the current plan is very different.

Click to shrink...

Wait is that why we chose Ikeda? I thought it was because she was the only Sand Genin to make it past the first round.

 

[Emstar]

I suggested to the hivemind to get Hazou to subvert Ikeda immediately after her match when she was emotionally drained and would be vulnerable to Hazou's manipulations.

Click to shrink...

*coughs*

It's not my fault that people associate (Using Hazou's DECEIT and rogueishly handsome good looks and dangerous Bad Boy mystique to further social objectives and manipulations with a member of the opposite sex) with (Shipping bullshit).

I mean, the lad himself said it best!

I mean that when you're figuring out how to win, you have to ignore the details and figure out how to use what you've got for that one purpose. In combat, the pangolins are tools. Big and scary tools, but still. Seals are tools. Your own body is a tool.

Click to shrink...

 

[Cariyaga]

I mean, the lad himself said it best!

Click to shrink...

...Incidentally, I feel that that conversation will be a turning point for Keiko, and something she comes back to in her thinking frequently.

 

[Emstar]

Wait is that why we chose Ikeda? I thought it was because she was the only Sand Genin to make it past the first round.

Click to shrink...

I believe the plan was to use her to soften up Shikamaru and/or get some info on her so as to give Keiko an edge if they were to fight.

Going off the brackets as they were at the time, which is not the case now.

(Still, it would have been useful to get a head start on that just in case we needed someone non-Leaf to be somewhat ingratiated with us and/or vulnerable to our manipulations later down the road. Munchkin level preparations in all things, please!)