- Location
- Academy City
- Pronouns
- They
I mean, it does technically coincide with the akatsuki invasion, but that's correlation, not causation. Ye real problem is that we let radvic get the reigns temporarily.
Earl-kun, denwa.
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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- London
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
What does it mean to say that he is shunted between timelines? The "new" (other?, alternate?) timeline already had a Kagome, or else his shunting would mean completely rewriting the history of that timeline, otherwise that would be much more like creating a new timeline than moving to a different one, so the phrasing "shunted into another universe" doesn't seem right.
Or does it mean that Old-Kagome, after shunting, becomes aware of all the memories of the para-Kagome he just... destroyed? Merged with? All of the para-memories still exist, but the brain state, the possible future thoughts are gone. Is Kagome unwillingly murdering alternate-Kagomes every time a shift happens?
Or is the shunting nomenclature inaccurate, and ALL POSSIBLE para-Kagomes gain the memories of the destroyed Kagome, and each one just believes they experienced a shift?
Old Kagome is shifted into New Universe.
1) Newniverse had no Kagome, shift causes all of history to be rewritten: Kagome murdered everybody
2) Newniverse had a Kagome, Old Kagome replaces him, gains his memories: Old Kagome murdered para-Kagome
3) Newniverse had a Kagome, he gains the memories of shifted Old Kagome: Old Kagome is now dead
Situations 2 and 3 may be the same thing?
*wakes up*
*notes it's about 11 AM in London*
Whee! Hopefully an update will come today.
Stap it! This has horrible implication for canon!
*notes it's about 11 AM in London*
Whee! Hopefully an update will come today.
Stap it! This has horrible implication for canon!
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
IIRC its usually somewhere around 5-8pm London time, historically (or at least the past couple weeks, mostly).
Ample Accelerate
Gotta stab fast
- Location
- Texas
You mean like when... Wait, I can't mention it. It hasn't happened yet.
- Location
- Yes.
Technically it has, just not in our universe.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
An extended performance piece by BirdDuke
Missing opening bracket! [
You say "implication" as if it isn't definitely also true in canon
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
You can usually tell how well or badly the update went for the playerbase by how early it was posted that day.
The earlier it gets posted, the more fun he had writing and the words just kept flowing so someone we care about probably died (if only on the inside).
The later it gets posted, the more likely it is that everything went well and he had to spend time looking up words in the Evil-to-Normal dictionary or trying different things that were simulation compliant while still delivering as much suffering per word (S/W) as possible but failing to do so.
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New tag?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I noticed that their description bore some amount of similarity to the blade demons Hazou and Kagome encountered during his dimensional sealing failure.
Chapter 230: The Logistician’s Truth
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In war, there is only one sin: sentiment. Only one grace: efficiency. The fools who decry me as inhuman will never know how many more they could have killed. How many more they could have saved.
—Mori Ryūgamine, the Angel Without Mercy
Some things had to be done. It was that simple. Even if that extra hour or whatever could have bought him victory in the tournament, it didn't matter next to making sure that Mum was alive, and well, and in one piece after what Jiraiya did to her.
Hazō's unease grew as he hurried through the streets. Despite the clan's best efforts, Kurosawa Hana's name was known, and many passers-by recognised it at least enough to admit that they had no idea where she was. Their old home was empty, the flat a hollow husk, and the rent had been paid through the month, as had the anonymous subsidy that had kept it relatively low all these years (and which the landlord strictly speaking wasn't supposed to mention to the Kurosawa, but after one look in Hazō's eyes had decided to volunteer along with every other bit of information that could be remotely useful).
Hazō was growing desperate enough to start thinking about the unthinkable—of crossing the gates of the Kurosawa compound and breaking an oath he'd given himself so many years ago. But before he could cross that line, he saw a light in a window that had never been lit in his life, of that well-appointed building that had been empty ever since the Mizukage had executed its owner for failing to show due respect.
Everything clicked into place. Of course the Kurosawa wouldn't let her move back in. But forcing her to live too far away now that she was a clan member again would be an insult, and putting her too close a visual reminder that the Kurosawa elders were capable of doing something worthy of regret. Compared to the Gōketsu compound, the outbuilding was a hermit's shack in the woods. Compared to the home where they'd grown up, it was a palace built of solid gold. Doubtless the elders thought this was a gesture of generosity, forgetting that they'd been responsible for both.
A thousand things passed through Hazō's head as he knocked on the door. Mum might not answer because she was under some sort of diplomatic restrictions because of her failure. Mum might not answer because she was away, and he wouldn't have another chance to see her and set his mind at ease before the tournament. Mum might not answer because this wasn't her after all, because she was dead, and always would be.
"Hazō!"
With that radiant smile, a thousand thoughts coalesced into one.
"Mum!"
If she hadn't been a jōnin, the tackle-hug might have knocked her over.
"I wondered if you'd come, cricket. I'm not exactly in a position to go to you, at least until the Kage figure out some formalities."
"Mum!" he repeated.
"Come in," she said. "Tempted as I am to cause a scene and have it reflect badly on the Kurosawa, now's probably not the time."
Compared to the palatial outside, the inside was surprisingly familiar. Simple decorations. A spare pair of hook swords hanging on the wall. A work table and what couldn't possibly be half-done embroidery. In short, about as little luxury as a high-ranking diplomat could get away with. Old habits died hard.
"So," she said after some more hugging. "You didn't just come by to make sure I was all right."
"No," Hazō said after a few seconds. "Mum, you know I love you more than anything in the world. But whether you meant it or not, you ended up putting us both in a terrible position. Just please… be more careful next time? I don't want to risk losing you again."
Hana gave a wry smile. "I suppose you think that what I did was stupid and wrong and something that shouldn't even occur to a mature adult with diplomacy training."
Lying to his mother by saying "no" was probably not the way to go. Unsurprisingly, she was a very hard person to lie to. Saying "yes, I think what you did was stupid and wrong" didn't look promising either. But Mum wasn't crying or flying off the handle or doing whatever a mother might do when challenged by her teenage son under stressful circumstances. She seemed like she might have a little patience he could trust in.
"You attacked Mari-sensei without provocation. You're really good at what you do—you must have known what would happen. You must have known it would hurt me, and you must have known that it would make it harder for you to stay in Leaf. And then the drowning thing only made a bad situation worse. If you did all of that because of what Mari-sensei did to me, if you did it because of me, then please… don't do it again. I don't need the kind of protection that comes with so much collateral damage."
Mum's smile turned a little proud and a little bitter. "My little Hazō, all grown up. Old enough to stand up for his convictions even if it means confronting his own mother. It does make me happy, cricket, and your tone and phrasing are good for someone without the training.
"But what you're not old enough for is to judge me. You've never lost anyone since we lost Shinji. You don't know how it feels, and you don't know how it feels to know that someone like Inoue is responsible, for reasons like the ones she had.
"Was what I did pragmatically inefficient? Maybe so. Maybe I should regret not acting like a diplomat. But there are some things, Hazō, that a person just can't do. You can't turn your back on somebody that no one else can help. If you did, you'd stop being you. Kagome, if I read him right, can't stop trying to protect his family. He'd die first. And me?
"I spend so much of my time smiling at people I want to kill, and offering concessions that weaken my village to its enemies. I can't bring that home. There has to be some part of a person's life in which they have integrity, in which they don't compromise. I think the part where a treacherous snake tries to murder your son for her own convenience qualifies."
"I know you value family more than anything else," Hazō said. "I do understand that, I really do. But what you did hurt me and the other people I care about, and it brought us further apart. Even if you do have the right to take revenge, why does it have to be in a way that makes everything worse?"
Mum laughed. "You think that was revenge? Hazō, there is nothing I could do to that woman that would fulfil my right to revenge. Telling her true things that she was too weak to take? Helping her, against my every instinct, in a way that was a bit more rough than it needed to be? This is why you don't have the right to judge me, Hazō. You look at the actions and the consequences without understanding the people."
The words "early bloomers" flickered through Hazō's mind. But this was different… wasn't it?
"Actions and consequences do matter, Mum! You had to know how Jiraiya would react when he found out. He could have killed you!"
"Yes," Mum nodded, her tone turning completely neutral. "I'm very lucky that when I hurt a member of his family, he only beat me half to death and exiled me. Just think, he could have said a few cruel words to me and half-drowned me instead.
"Oh, wait, he did half-drown me. And he wasn't even washing my hair."
The deadpan was gone, replaced with a simmering fire in her eyes.
"Tell me, Hazō, how many people questioned him? How many people told him that whether or not he had a right to be angry, he shouldn't have acted on it in a way that hurt his family? How many people told him that it was his responsibility as an adult and a trained diplomat to get over himself and find a better way?"
Jiraiya had been proud when he told them. Almost smug. No, actually smug, when it came to boasting about the political perks of tearing them apart a second time. No apologies. No regret. Fait accompli, look what a protective and loving husband I am.
It had never occurred to Hazō to challenge Jiraiya, to stand up and tell him that two wrongs didn't make a right, or that maybe Hazō should have a say, or at least an opportunity to provide input, or even to receive a warning, when it came to deciding whether he got to see his mother again.
It probably wouldn't have done any good, Jiraiya not being a man who accepted challenges from his inferiors (i.e. everyone, now that the Third was dead), but that in itself should have rung warning bells in Hazō's mind. Hazō had spent two years making every decision for himself, or as a core member of a small team. Now Jiraiya called the shots, and Hazō didn't dare question him, didn't dare think to question him.
She could have died at Jiraiya's hands. He could have misjudged his strength, or been distracted by something at the worst possible moment, or somebody could have leapt in to support their Kage before Jiraiya could stop them, or the combat jōnin could have done something unpredictable and caused him to do more damage than he meant to. Or maybe the Kurosawa elders, who'd hated Mum enough to destroy her life, might have seized their opportunity. To people like them, it would probably come naturally to find some excuse to permanently remove the Kurosawa's greatest shame from public view if they thought she'd been discarded by the Gōketsu and of no more value.
Back in Leaf, Hazō had made a concerted effort to stop thinking of Mum as a special, sacrosanct being, and instead as an adult who was responsible for her own choices. An adult capable of making mistakes, and obliged to face the consequences.
He'd overshot. He'd decided that he fully understood what was going through Mum's head, the reasons why she'd done what she'd done, and that they weren't good enough. So he let the adults punish her appropriately, and then send her to sit in a corner and think about what she'd done, while Hazō, satisfied that justice had been done, had gone off to build CHAOS Suits. And now he'd come to her home to make sure she'd learned her lesson.
That was certainly one way to be the adult in a conflict.
"I'm sorry." There didn't seem to be anything else to say.
"I know, cricket," Mum said. "Judging people is easy, and the less information you have, the easier it gets. You think I was wrong to judge Inoue on the information I had, but clearly I knew her well enough that she broke from just a few true words about who she was.
"To me, Inoue's done enough harm that there is no punishment great enough, but I held back—I held back nearly everything—because I didn't want to have this exact thing happen. If you think I didn't exercise enough control, you can't imagine what I would have done if I'd let loose. Jiraiya probably feels the same way about me, and he held back because he didn't want to make you outright rebel or to force the Kurosawa to avenge their honour. You know what he does to people who hurt his interests without that kind of protection.
"I never asked you to pick a side. Maybe you think I did, but I'm a master diplomat who knows your every weakness, and apparently all of Inoue's weaknesses as well. If I wanted to force the issue, I'd have gone a hell of a lot further, and I'd have left her a gibbering wreck instead of giving her a second chance she didn't deserve.
"You've picked a side anyway, because judging people is easy, because only strong people get to lash out at those they hate, and because Inoue has a gift for playing the victim. But you're starting to learn what it's like when someone hurts your family. You can try to be pragmatic, you can try to be rational, but at the end of the day, you will do whatever it takes to make them stop. And when one day you find yourself within arm's reach of the enemy who killed Keiko or Kagome or Noburi, or even Inoue, I promise you that diplomatic concerns will not be the first thing on your mind.
"Hazō, I love you and my home will always be your home, but right now, I think you have some thinking to do. I'll be praying for you in the tournament, and I'll make sure to have some cookie dough ready for when you come back."
-o-
Not that Keiko's face didn't have at least a shadow of misery about it by default, but tonight anybody who knew her at all could have seen in her expression the fact that she'd just visited the Seventh Path.
"Let me guess," Noburi said. "The pangolins have changed their ways and are now handing out candy and hugging small children, or whatever it is a giant death machine with razor claws does to children. Wait, let me start again."
"The pangolins were grateful for our contribution to the war effort," Keiko said, not even trying to hide the weariness in her voice. "They have requested a list of the other seals we know, and made it plain that increased cooperation would be suitably remunerated from their new… income sources."
Noburi winced. "So the world domination plans aren't slowing down, then?"
"That would depend on your definition. While I am privy to only a fraction of the clan's classified information, it has been implied that the pangolins have commenced negotiations with the leopards, whose lands are on the far side of the hyenas'. If successful, the leopards will commence a simultaneous invasion from their side, resulting in a swift and decisive victory. In return for their cooperation, they demand a return of certain ancestral lands unlawfully occupied by the Hyena Clan for generations. The pangolins are even now negotiating over the proposed borders of these lands. They have a new idea, you see, one inspired by my account of the political developments in Hot Springs."
"You told them about Hot Springs?!" Hazō exclaimed.
"The flow of information must proceed in both directions, Hazō. If they were to discover that was telling them only what they needed to know, they would also decide to tell me only what I needed to know. Do not forget that I am not their only source of information on the Human Path, merely the most reliable."
"All right," Hazō said. "I don't suppose the lesson they've learned is not to accidentally pick fights with jōnin?"
"In that metaphor, they are the jōnin. We have made them so." Keiko closed her eyes for a few seconds. When she opened them again, they were colder and clearer. "The remaining former Hyena territories will become what one might call a joint administrative zone, formally owned by the Pangolin Clan but effectively controlled by the Leopard Clan. In return for a sizeable proportion of the zone's taxes, and submission on individual policy issues relating to said zone, the Leopard Clan will be free to administer it as they will. I trust the broader implications are obvious."
They weren't, so Hazō stopped to think them through beneath Keiko's "so much for that" stare.
The Hyena Clan would be crushed practically overnight, with no warning. The leopards would receive a strange form of reward that disincentivised the Pangolin Clan from making them its next target and laid the groundwork for a bloodless transition to vassaldom further down the line. And the message to the rest of the Seventh Path… those who sided with the Pangolin Clan were instantly and richly rewarded. Those who didn't surrender fast enough became their ancient enemies' slaves in perpetuity. The Pangolin Clan wouldn't even have to expend forces on holding territory. They'd just hit and move on, hit and move on, leaving behind allies of convenience who had no motivation to rock the boat.
"Well," Hazō said, "at least it's better than what happened to the Condor Clan."
"Indeed," Keiko said. "Unlike the condors, whom it was necessary to strike down before they executed their invasion plan, which was set to begin any day, the hyenas are merely their foul co-conspirators who refuse to acknowledge the Pangolin Clan's inherent superiority. As such, they may be permitted to retain a fraction of their culture and history as they labour for the benefit of the Pangolin Empire through its vassal states. At least if the leopards feel sufficiently merciful."
"Well, shit," Noburi eloquently summarised.
Keiko's hands tightened for a second.
She hissed something quietly to herself that might have been "inefficient" or "insufficient".
"What was that, Keiko?"
"Nothing. I am fine. It is only that, with the Hyena Clan 'processed' ahead of schedule, the Pangolin Clan will be free to turn its claws elsewhere. I have not been made privy to the information, but I imagine that they would wish to filter out traitors within their own ranks—whether the spies that must by now be desperate to learn their plans, or the 'spies' who reveal themselves by failing to display sufficient enthusiasm for the Pangolin Clan's actions. Of course, there is no reason why they should not do this while simultaneously mobilising against their next target. After all, what spy more heinous before the public's eyes than one who would directly sabotage the war effort?
"All this... all this is no different to what Yagura would have done had he possessed an analogous advantage over the other villages. No different to what Jiraiya plans to do, except that he would rule with a much softer hand. Given the opportunity, Cloud would surely descend from the mountains to spread the Sage's true teachings across the world, coincidentally conquering it in the process. Sand's hunger would be insatiable once it received but a taste of the fruits previously denied it, while Rock has sought a dozen times to douse the Will of Fire as proof of its lust for domination. Nothing we have seen is new. Nothing we have done is new.
"But still… I would prefer not to speak of this any more."
Keiko turned and walked away, towards one of the bathrooms. On nights like this one, part of Hazō's mind feared she would not come back.
-o-
What are these spoons of which you speak?
I'll try to get to the rest, or at least some of the rest, of the plan tomorrow. If not, it'll be offscreened as necessary.
I'll try to get to the rest, or at least some of the rest, of the plan tomorrow. If not, it'll be offscreened as necessary.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Welp, it looks like the Pangolins are escalating faster than we are. Either they're gonna crash and burn hard, which is its own giant mess for us, or we're racing to get the Goketsu stable so Jiraiya will approve anything more than token countermeasures.
And Keiko's still shouldering the majority of the guilty feelings. I wonder if she'll last long enough under the burden, or if she'll realign her priorities and betray Jiraiya's interests to help save the Seventh Path before it's too late. I wouldn't want to be in the middle of that storm if it happens.
And Keiko's still shouldering the majority of the guilty feelings. I wonder if she'll last long enough under the burden, or if she'll realign her priorities and betray Jiraiya's interests to help save the Seventh Path before it's too late. I wouldn't want to be in the middle of that storm if it happens.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
We should talk to her about salt.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Of all the members of Team Uplift, I don't think Keiko is the one who needs extra salt.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
No, she needs way more salt. So we can sell it and stop paying into the Pangolin war engine.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
[] Action Plan Snippet: Being Productively Salty
- Figure out the price of salt in Mist
- If the price is reasonable, talk to Keiko about the possibility of using the yakuza as an intermediary for selling salt produced through ninja techniques off the coast of Fire.
- Nintech: MEW and lots of trees to boil it off. EM if Akane agrees but not going to count on it.
- Use appropriate OPSEC in discussion with Kei
- Nintech: MEW and lots of trees to boil it off. EM if Akane agrees but not going to count on it.
- Note that even if the price of salt dives as a result of this, that is a good thing for people in general.
- If the price is reasonable, talk to Keiko about the possibility of using the yakuza as an intermediary for selling salt produced through ninja techniques off the coast of Fire.
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- Location
- Potato land
I have to say, I absolutely love the chapters where Keiko airs her fatalistic views of international politics. It always puts our fundamental purpose in this world into focus, for me. To do something new, rather than perpetuate the old and the tried. Thx @Velorien, you're cool, and there wasn't even that much suffering in the chapter!
This isn't really an apples to apples comparison, at least from Hazou's perspective. He loves and trusts Hana way more than he does Jiraiya, and more specifically, he trusts her to have his best interests at heart and prioritize them. This is why he even bothers to make this argument. On the other hand, Jiraiya wouldn't care he was causing Hazou distress, relative to what he could've gained from kicking Hana out.
It is true though, that the hivemind trusts Jiraiya way too much, both in terms of his effective judgement, and in terms of his goals aligning with ours.
Good to see that me and Keiko are on the same page when it comes to the "peace through Leaf military domination" strategy. Same old shit, and likely the same old results.
This isn't really an apples to apples comparison, at least from Hazou's perspective. He loves and trusts Hana way more than he does Jiraiya, and more specifically, he trusts her to have his best interests at heart and prioritize them. This is why he even bothers to make this argument. On the other hand, Jiraiya wouldn't care he was causing Hazou distress, relative to what he could've gained from kicking Hana out.
It is true though, that the hivemind trusts Jiraiya way too much, both in terms of his effective judgement, and in terms of his goals aligning with ours.
Good to see that me and Keiko are on the same page when it comes to the "peace through Leaf military domination" strategy. Same old shit, and likely the same old results.
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
It makes me happy, too.
I know this didn't resolve the conflict between Hazou and Hana completely but giving the sparse information in the plan you did the best you could. Thank you for that.
I am reminded of the canon conflict between Naruto and Sasuke here before Naruto lost Jiraiya with Sasuke refusing to listen to Naruto's arguments on the grounds of him not having suffered loss.
Maybe he is right, maybe Hana is as well. I don't think Hazou would take the loss of his teammates kindly even though - as weird as this is to say - the whole killbox event actually was a good experience in this regard because it tempered the hivemind's/Hazou's response to these situations.
Pre-Killbox Hazou says to Post-Killbox Hazou.
Retreading the whole cycle of hatred argument?
I mean sure, but it would hold a lot more weight if the person saying this to us was the one perpetuating the cycle by assaulting Mari.
We are lucky Hana is still alive all considered so lets not squander this opportunity again.
Okay, at this point the whole "will go damn far" thing stopped being a meme OOC and is now the Kurosawa clan's actual nindo.
See above.
Speaking of memes: The sage damned cookies also made the switch from OOC to IC meme.
Curious, who would that source be? Other summons I would have guessed but then would they not have said source of information from the Seventh Path? Probably overthinking it and it's just Pangolins talking to other summon animals like animals do in those cute animated movies except this isn't a movie and the Pangolins are Pixar versions of Nazis.
Poor Keiko. :x
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Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Right. Okay. Apparently prior self-reflection was insufficient, as Hana remains poison to Hazou's critical thinking skills. At this point the simplest solution seems to be avoiding any further contact, under whatever pretext is necessary.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
Dear god, they're going full Hitler in Poland.
The Seventh Path's only real hope now is a coalition forged to keep the Pangolins in check. They need a Seventh Path equivalent of NATO, with nations that hate one another brought together by the greater fear of being made into the Pangolin's slaves if they don't work together.