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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Vecht said:
That said, I'm... maybe in favor of doing this? I mean, I'd like to at least try a less destructive approach first. But they really are the pillar of the resistance to Pax Leaf from the sound of things.

Also, I'll note that Noburi and Keiko wouldn't be as gung-ho about this (probably), and we'll have to choose between pushing them away or acting without their knowledge. I don't particularly care, but it's going to be a tough sell to other voters.
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I don't mean to say we should jump a the opportunity. Just that we don't have to panic too much about the worst case. Nukes are a powerful persuasive tool, even if they "miss". Worth noting that our nukes aren't guaranteed to work.

If we were to do this, I wouldn't tell anyone other than Jiraiya.
 
Enjou said:
I will point out that what Jiraiya has speculated that Ren could do there is kind of a worst-but-still-plausible case scenario, not necessarily the way things are currently leaning. He's saying that Ren has options other than just folding and doing what Leaf wants, and that it's an issue he very much has to focus on so that he secure the Leaf-Mist alliance that he's been trying to achieve, so that when the World War inevitably hits Leaf has as many advantages as possible.
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Agreed. It was some serious scare talk, but this blithe assumption that she can just brute force it through with Mist ANBU is a hell of an ask. Judging by the way Mari reacted, you could be looking at a mass kunoichi-led rebellion (and plenty of male ninja would come on board too).

We're talking about a bunch of superpowered people most of whom have kind of come to accept their own mortality. "I'd rather die" is not an empty threat, and who's to say that the civil war won't extend to ANBU itself?
 
MMKII said:
Ren was put forth as a compromise candidate by the clans.

If we convince the big Z to take the hat, I'm sure they would oblige him.
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I enjoy memes as much as the next person, but:
  1. Hazou doesn't know Zabuza is alive
  2. We have no idea whatsoever what Zabuza would do as Mizukage. Why would he be a better choice than Ren?
Or are you saying that we go out and find Zabuza and recruit him to our side, then get him to take up as Mizukage?

Ehhhhhhh
 
Vecht said:
Or are you saying that we go out and find Zabuza and recruit him to our side, then get him to take up as Mizukage?
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Could be an option.

I don't think anything is really off the table at this point, but I think "Nuke Mist" is too premature until the war actually breaks out.

At that point, we likely get the "Merlin Says: Indulge yourself." on that front.
Roomba said:
Man, and now @Velorien is going to be writing the "Getting a Clue" parts of the plan. The romcom death spiral continues...
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There is a vote.

Oneiros said:
Sooooooo is it time to have the Orchimaru talk with Jiraiya?
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Don't really wanna have another two scenes or so of arguing tbh.
 
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If we revamp the Konohagakure education system to at least Kagome's level, what do we expect the consequences to be? Short-term? Medium-term? Long-term?
 
A stab at our immediate next steps:
  • META: Figure out our near-term strategy. There's a lot going on in the world, and after the tournament we're going to have to roll up our sleeves and get to work. Jiraiya's probably got missions lined up for us, but we'll still have a good bit more leeway to act on our own accord than we have had for a while.
    • Potential to get the ball rolling on whatever we decide during our month of training. I'd hate to waste that time.
  • Debrief with Keiko & Noburi (discuss plans)
    • Probably important that we're all on the same page, or at least that they aren't going to fight us on important topics
    • Keiko is probably going to need emotional support, for her own sanity. Also, there's still the avenue of her using her own influence with the Pangolins to get further concessions from them. Not sure how to approach this myself.
  • No seriously, get a clue.
  • Training. Ebisu. Gai. Kakashi. Mari? Jiraiya if he can spare the time.
  • Talk w/Hana when she gets back. Figure out what her place is going to be in Leaf, and more generally in Hazou's life.
  • (Requires Jiraiya's consent) Extend the Hyuuga an olive branch. Make serious concessions and/or expensive favors to signal that we want to work with them, not against them, for the sake of Leaf. Hinata & Neji are good starting points to get in with the next generation, if nothing else.
 
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It's possible that the ineffective-fixed cost of Shadow Clone isn't enormous. If only Jonin get taught the technique, and Shadow Clones cost e.g. 90% of total XP on the summon table, then most evidence will show a "minimum requirement" of like 240 CP, for the absolute beginner Jonin, and 330 for mid-tier Jonin.

That'd make CP minimum requirement for 2 large summons make sense.

Could make that an addendum to our Chakra measurement - it would need to be proportionality against elemental clones.
 
eaglejarl said:
For that matter, Akatsuki does mercenary work. If I went missing, it would be trivial for Hyūga to mobilize the full resources of Leaf to pay their rates.
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This is incredibly obvious in hindsight but I believe I just found a surefire way to find Naruto: Hire Akatsuki to find Akatsuki so Akatsuki can secure Naruto from Akatsuki and return him to us.
 
Vecht said:
(Requires Jiraiya's consent) Extend the Hyuuga an olive branch. Make serious concessions and/or expensive favors to signal that we want to work with them, not against them, for the sake of Leaf. Hinata & Neji are good starting points to get in with the next generation, if nothing else.
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I don't feel that this is a viable thing we could do until after Jiraiya is officially full time Hokage and the hat is no longer in play. So long as the hat is in play, Hiashi will be gunning for it, which means no overtures of peace will work.
 
Enjou said:
I don't feel that this is a viable thing we could do until after Jiraiya is officially full time Hokage and the hat is no longer in play. So long as the hat is in play, Hiashi will be gunning for it, which means no overtures of peace will work.
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IIRC this will be decided in the next week or two, while we're here.
 
Serious question (and Radvic has not kidnapped me or coerced me to pose the following):

Kagome seems a little upset. I think he thinks Jiraiya will poach us from him as a student. We should do something to cheer him up.

Who wants to test Stacked Implosion Seals?
 
Vecht said:
IIRC this will be decided in the next week or two, while we're here.
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Yes, but we should wait on making any olive branches until after it has happened. And it would probably be best to wait a while after that so that the metaphorical wound isn't so fresh.


MMKII said:
Serious question (and Radvic has not kidnapped me or coerced me to pose the following):

Kagome seems a little upset. I think he thinks Jiraiya will poach us from him as a student. We should do something to cheer him up.

Who wants to test Stacked Implosion Seals?
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I think it would be best to just do a project with only him and not with Jiraiya, like Casino Seal research. Which I thought we'd voted for already, but hasn't been done?
 
MMKII said:
Who wants to test Stacked Implosion Seals?
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Provided we can somehow do this safely and while preserving OPSEC, sure.


E:

Enjou said:
Yes, but we should wait on making any olive branches until after it has happened. And it would probably be best to wait a while after that so that the metaphorical wound isn't so fresh.
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No disagreement WRT Hiashi, but we can still do this for Hinata and Neji, so long as we have Jiraiya's blessing.
 
Enjou said:
I think it would be better to just do a project with only him and not with Jiraiya, like Casino Seal research. Which I thought we'd voted for already, but hasn't been done?
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No reason we cant do this and take an hour break to blow shit up?
 
MMKII said:
Serious question (and Radvic has not kidnapped me or coerced me to pose the following):

Kagome seems a little upset. I think he thinks Jiraiya will poach us from him as a student. We should do something to cheer him up.

Who wants to test Stacked Implosion Seals?
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On which note:

Jiraiya's paranoia has just given Hiashi another line of attack:

"Kagome is recklessly endangering the next generation of Konoha-nin in the time of Konoha's greatest crisis"
 
Excellent chapter, @eaglejarl. I enjoy reading long intelligent discussions immensely, and it definitely delivered on that front.
eaglejarl said:
"The problem is that the human brain isn't designed to experience multiple timestreams at once—"
Kagome-sensei shifted uncomfortably.
"—and trying to do so can cause paranoia, delusions, and memory issues."
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Hmm.
"For that matter, Akatsuki does mercenary work. If I went missing, it would be trivial for Hyūga to mobilize the full resources of Leaf to pay their rates."
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Note that according to Kagome, Akatsuki wouldn't ever work for Leaf:
"Akatsuki have been these terrifying killer mercenaries, working for everyone under the sun except Leaf."
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"I don't know—yet!—why Akatsuki wants Naruto. Maybe they can brainwash him into being their soldier?"
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So they still haven't figured out that Akatsuki are after the bijuu? Come on, they swooped in at the last moment, captured only the two containers, and ran. Ignored Jiraiya, didn't act until most of the other ninja were dead. Surely it's a fair guess?

We should mention it to Jiraiya, attach Kagome's speculations about tailed beasts' locations to it, and suggest investigating them, or at least check that the other containers are still in place.
  • One-Tail: Sand?
  • Two-Tails: Demon?
  • Three-Tails: Mist.
  • Four-Tails: Is lost?
  • Five-Tails: Bear.
  • Six-Tails: No record for 50 years.
  • Seven-Tails: Unknown.
  • Eight-Tails: Cloud.
  • Nine-Tails: Leaf.
  • Note: one of the bijuu is definitely in Sand, but it may not be One-Tail.
 
...

We must get Tsunade to return and claim the Senju clan head spot, and support Jiraiya's tenure as Hokage.

In return, he gives her carte blanche on any medical related ideas in peacetime and we perhaps work out a deal with her with respect to future Leaf university?
 
Noumero said:
So they still haven't figured out that Akatsuki are after the bijuu? Come on, they swooped in at the last moment, captured only the two containers, and ran. Ignored Jiraiya, didn't act until most of the other ninja were dead. Surely it's a fair guess?
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I would bet that Jiraiya knows exactly this and doesn't want to discuss it unless strictly necessary.
 
Its good that all this came out. Mari was able to handle it expertly.

Now, there are things to deal with.

  • Pangolin Problems
    • First, we still don't know how many Hyenas there are.
    • We still know very little of the Pangolin political situation.
    • We should get allies besides the Toads to pressure them.
    • Have we attempted to offer the merchant solution?
      • Vast amounts of wealth is a much more sustainable way to keep pangolin society in line
      • I know this has a problem somewhere. It is bonkers powerful, and someone would have thought of it over the past 1000 years, so everyone should be doing it, so the Pangolins should have been desperate for Keiko to do it, having had to deal with an inferior trade network for the past 400 years.
        • Maybe storage seals just flat out don't work while on the 7th path?
          • Nothing we have seen contradicts this.
        • Storage seals taboo on the 7th path?
          • Slight evidence in favor.
        • The Pangolins have basically non existent trade arrangements, because:
          • Everyone hates them. They are genocidal assholes.
          • They don't want the foreign contact that trade brings.
            • If its this one, we have a solution. Only a loyalty tested small group will actually see any foreign clans.
          • They don't want centers of power other than the military.
            • Simple just make the merchant outposts subservient.

  • People predicaments.
    • Keiko wants an example of herself without the Frozen Skien.
      • This is big, and should not be overlooked.
      • Is she hopeful that she would be happier?
      • That sans Frozen Skein, she could have a better relationship with Tenten?
      • Is this a self esteem thing? She wants to see if she is worth anything without her bloodline?
      • Sad possibility, she just wants to have some memories of not being depressed?
    • Mari might be getting worn thin. She has essentially taken the role of peace keeper and therapist for a whole clan of Ninja.
      • We know she doesn't feel comfortable in this role.
      • We know she feels guilty because the clan still has issues.
    • Also, Mari is super duper double plus freaked out by the possibility of dear Aunt Ren starting a forced breeding program, likely using her friends, colleagues, and family.
      • The way Yagura treated her, as well as her specialty as a seduction specialist, very likely aren't helping.
      • Helping her directly is so far out of our league that the distance can't be meaningfully measured in leagues. The best we can do is find people to help her cope, and take as much as possible off of her plate, allowing her time to process as best she can.
    • Jiraiya doesn't trust or particularly like Kagome.
      • Jiraiya feels like he has earned an amazing amount of respect, and Kagome doesn't give him any.
      • Jiraiya feels like he has earned a great deal of trust, and Kagome doesn't give him any.
      • Also, Jiraiya emphatically does not have time to deal with any of this. The three problems he listed are just the three we are allowed to know about.
    • Kagome is getting worried about Jiraiya. I don't think he has had enough time back in society to be able to fully separate "People who don't like me" from "People who want to hurt me".
      • He and Jiraiya need to do something together that can help them start to grow closer and trust each other more. Maybe Jiraiya can spy on Kagome while he teaches math, that should get him to warm up.
    • Hazou has problems too:
      • Feels personal guilt for the pangolins.
      • He sees people around him hurting, and tries to help. But he keeps guessing wrong about whats hurting them, and winds up hurting them more. He is smart enough to realize this, and its probably causing him a great deal of distress.
      • For the last two years, solving problems has been his responsibility, to the point where I would say it is a part of his identity. Other people have noticed it. Now he has been hit with a bunch of problems (some of which he feels direct responsibility for) that he has no idea how to solve. Guilt is going to be a serious problem.
      • Also, he still doesn't know they broke up.
    • And Noburi... is just the chillest fucking dude alive.
 
eaglejarl said:
"Sir, those are great suggestions, but we actually wanted to ask about Shadow Clone," Hazō said carefully. "Everyone knows that it's Naruto's signature move, and we were there in the conference room when you told the other clan heads about the battle. You mentioned that Uchiha genjutsued one of the clones and then they all popped and the real Naruto went down. That suggests that they have some sort of hivemind ability, or perhaps memory transference. If that's so, it seems like it could really speed up training time."

"...You scare me sometimes, kid."
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The trick to figuring something out from incomplete or little information is to already know it beforehand. Meta knowledge is great.
 
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