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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Noumero said:
(N>0) hours before the event's end, I think. The rampage ended ~four hours after the start, so our team reported early, and Kages apparently agreed to end the event prematurely, but it's not clear how early. We could decide to retroactively spend part of the remaining ~twenty hours however we see fit. I think, for everything to stay consistent, we could report in as late as one hour until event's end.
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@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Want to be 100% sure, is this the case?
 
I think it would be consistent with the party theme if it's very near the end of the actual time allotment. Maybe 20-23 hours in, as it doesn't say the sun is setting on the mission report.

The event started at sundown, and we spent ~4+ hours doing stuff. Jiraiya is taking us out for 'dinner'

I suspect it is evening of the following day.
 
Jello_Raptor said:
Apparently yes.
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It was after the shika chapter where we asked (Oli?) to clarify some things.

We got a small snippet essentially to the effect of "They're prioritizing getting into the finals over helping a horde of people kick your ass for various reasons."

faflec said:
Didn't Hinata's team do worse than us on the Second Event? How are they so safe based on that score?
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Do you *want* to fight a Byakugan assisted assault? :p


Edit: They also beat the shit out of us in Event 4
 
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How does a fire technique interact with air/earth domes? I suspect it doesn't penetrate, but that it will heat up the barrier?

Want to erect an air/earth dome, goo-bomb the outside, spread sand/dirt on sticky dome, youthenizers to heat the glued dirt/sand into brittle rock/glass, 5sb the resulting thin layer of wall.

E: Actually, goo bomb, sand/dirt, youthenizers might work on external/ internal walls
 
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faflec said:
I was thinking more of "how did Hinata's team survive the first round of eliminations if their Second Round score wasn't that good, and their Third Round score wasn't good enough for Shikamaru to mention?".
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Hmmm good question. I believe someone did a score analysis in the last month that led people to believe they wouldn't be so safe. Do you recall who it was or where it is?

(@Adept_Woodwright was it you?)
 
One thing to make sure we do - turn in our 5SBs to the pangolins. Do it ahead of time, before something happens. Paranoid? Maybe! But should do it anyways. Early delivery is better than late, if something happened to the package.
 
Noumero said:
Strongly support this. What else to discuss with Shikamaru?
  • Brief us on abilities of contestants on other Blue Teams. Collaborate with Keiko, use her observations of their performance in R1 to determine what powerful or esoteric abilities we should watch out for.
  • Shikamaru's plan. Elaborate on it.
    • How he plans to convince SuperTeam Red to follow his strategy, make them trust ISC?
    • There's at least two other cognitively-enhanced bloodline users: Tama Ruri from Team Chinin and Mori Anna from Team Downfall Fallflat. How confident is he that he will be able to socially outmanoeuvre them? Could he compromise their plan, so that it's not too good?
  • Suggest improvements on his plan.
    • Word-halves gambit as incentive.
    • Coordinator-team gambit.
    • Pre-made traps gambit: set up some traps in the forest right now, so that ISC could use them during R2 as they see fit.
    • ???
  • Brief him on our current defence plan, so that he could suggest improvements, or adjust the strategy he will be convincing STR to follow during R2 so that our plan is more efficient.
  • Anything else?
We should exploit the fact that we're playing both sides more.
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How's the enhanced cognition power of the Tama work? Something that complements the two styles we've seen so far could be really useful if we could get access to it.
 
Can any plan being made to have a line added about being emotionally mature about the break-up and still being friends with Akane. We should take her observations about Hazou and use them to grow as a person.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
How's the enhanced cognition power of the Tama work? Something that complements the two styles we've seen so far could be really useful if we could get access to it.
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Unknown. According to Keiko, they suffer from "tunnel vision proportional to the degree of concentration".

Edit: Additionally, according to Jiraiya, Tama's presence would make Team Chinin extremely good at destroying fortifications. That is the extent of our knowledge.
 
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Adept_Woodwright said:
Estimate of amount of paint needed. I am purposefully overestimating for simplicity and because, in our haste to apply the paint, I imagine we wont be perfectly efficient
There are, approximately, 9 of the 32-ft up/down sections on the map, and 7 of the 50 ft left/right sections. Assuming the walls are 10 ft high, we get 9*32*10 = 2592 ft^2, and 7*50*10 = 3500 ft^2. The floors and ceiling are, at max, 32x50, so 32*50*2 = 3200 ft^2. All told, there are no more than 9292 ft^2 to be painted. Apply a safety factor of 1.2., for 11150 ft^2.

Estimating How Much Paint to Buy - dummies

Indicates you need a gallon per 350 ft^2, but unprimed dry wall will need slightly more. Say 300^ft2 / gallon.

37.2 gallons. Probably ask for 37 gallons of paint.
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Adept_Woodwright said:
37 gallons to ensure plenty of paint over the interior, which includes at least a factor of 1.2 for safety.
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Adept_Woodwright said:
For a successful rampage
ISC+co = 300
Us+co = 185
Other Blue = -300
Other Red = -495

Next round
Perfect Blue (one set of 9 prisoners): 140
Perfect Blue (27 prisoners): 320
Perfect Red: 185

Us, safe docs: 235 pts

R1 Blue, R2 Red = -115 Max
R1 Red, R2 Blue (9 pris) = -355
R1 Red, R2 Blue (27 pris) = -175 Max

For ISC company
If all Blue documents are destroyed other than our own, and they stay healthy and unjailed, the maximum point penalty is -330 pts, which gives them a minimum 270 pt advantage.

For whatever reason, say that ISC's company doesn't want to lose more than a 300 point advantage. Then they go around and knock down all of the blue teams cells, so there cant be anybody jailed at the end. Done. Maximum penalty is -150, nobody else gains any points, and they already had 600 pts advantage.

Safest strategy is for Nara's team and teammates from this round to come to our base, get pangolin support, then go to each other facility and destroy the cells and documents. If a red team succeeds before the demolition crew arrives (which is unlikely, given that most red teams are now operating at only 6 people against 9, and some blue teams have healthy people), then the only folks in trouble are us. Getting 5-7 prisoners makes even this a non-issue.
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Adept_Woodwright said:
We don't need ISC to pull off a double-agent maneuver. We just need them to rampage a tiny little bit with their current teammates + pangolins to destroy other blue docs and cells. That all but guarantees both ISC and our objectives

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Round 1
ISC+co = 300
Us = 185
Other Blue = -300
Other Red = -495 (all captured)
Other Red = -145 (1 team escapes capture and gets full positive points)

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Round 2
Us = 50 pts
ISC+co = -150 (rest of team is injured, but nobody in cells because there are no cells)
Other Blue = 0 (docs destroyed, not turned in. no prisoners)
Other Red = 0 (no docs)

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ISC+co = 150 worst case if get 25 prisoners round 1, and all other teammates injured but not in cells
Us = 235 if we protect docs next round
R1 Blue = -300
R1 Red = -145 (if was a team that escaped)
R1 Red = -495 (otherwise)

ISC + co wins against everyone except, maybe, the R1 Red team that got away. Has a 295 point advantage over them.
We get a 380 pt advantage over the same.
This strategy only suffers if there is a full team that evades capture for R1. If we prevent that, the win is outright. If it takes them more than 4 hours to get the docs to the proctors in R1, we win outright.
Additionally, we would know which team it was, and ISC/pangolin strike force could be extra motivated to inflict MC on that group.
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Adept_Woodwright said:
I note that the 300 points that Shikamaru and company aim to score in this round do not, in point of fact, guarantee them progression to the finals.

The active members in R2 are red. R2 Blue is reactive. Consider the agency of R2 red.

The other R2 red candidates generally start R2 with -225 pts (or -300 pts for Kurenai/Cloud/Downfall), whereas ISC/co get 300 in the ideal world.
This is a 525/600 pt spread.

ISC/co members can take -495 next round, while their other R2 red members can feasibly get 185, though intentional penalties narrow that gap.

Postulate a super team red that specifically targets ISC/co so as to eliminate the concept of Leaf alliance/superiority in this exam

Teams with ISC in R2 self-sacrifice: -495 pts
Teams against Goketsu self sacrifice to other blue teams: -495 pls

Each other team: 185 - 110= 75 assume 2 ISC-co per red group

A spread of 570 in round 2 for 14 members (2 red groups - 4 ISC-co) against ISC, and a spread of 185 against ISC-co.

All told, this results in a net gain (45 pt) over ISC for some folk, a net loss to ISC (30 pt) if Kurenai/Downfall/Cloud, and a net loss against ISC-co of 340 pts. ISC-co we're described as lowest quartile, so I predict this shift only puts them on par with the previous top scorers. As ISC was purposefully not the top scorer, +\- 50 pts probably shifts up and down rankings substantially.

Additionally, the plan calls for 22 prisoners, which can be given to one facility (say, the one ISC was supposed to fight, which gets a pass) to artificially boost their scores back into the running.

Without getting any prisoners, and most folks getting -225+75=-150, to our 235, Goketsu maybe lays in contention with the top scorers, but it is no guarantee that we proceed.

—

The actions of an anti-ISC super team red and the actions of an anti-Goketsu super team red will look extremely similar to our allies during preparation.

During the initial staging, 27 injured ninja turn on 9 uninjured ninja in unprepared ground. ISC-co gets wiped.

—

Instead, do not propose mass combat. Have ISC/co capture their respective squads at the outset of the 2 hr mark with goo-bombs, which allows us to collect everyone, then ISC+co uses our base as a staging ground for their rampage.
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MMKII said:
Hmmm good question. I believe someone did a score analysis in the last month that led people to believe they wouldn't be so safe. Do you recall who it was or where it is?

(@Adept_Woodwright was it you?)
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I don't think I specifically addressed Kurenai in any of my thoughts - mostly as an addendum that we might be able to do something to not hose them as badly as we otherwise could.

After this, I think ISC is mostly secure even if other folks manage to perfectly defect against them (inflict -495 next round) - but will double check.
 
Adept_Woodwright said:
I don't think I specifically addressed Kurenai in any of my thoughts - mostly as an addendum that we might be able to do something to not hose them as badly as we otherwise could.

After this, I think ISC is mostly secure even if other folks manage to perfectly defect against them (inflict -495 next round) - but will double check.
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Hmmm okay.

Besides that, how do you feel about using thin granite slabs instead of paint? The benefit is we can prep these right now in the ~20 hours we have access to before the Round ends and the end of the latest update triggers.

Re:

MMKII said:
Yeah, accidentally a unit/decimal place. Oopsies. To the recalc mobile:




Units are given in feet. Charitably lets assume everything is about 4m high. The larger rooms are then 4m x 4m x 3m, more or less. So we have

4*3 *(2) + 4*4 *(4) = 24 + 64 = 88 m^2 of coverage to get to.

Generous: Say 10 rooms. = 880 m^2 of coverage.

Edit:

Super pessimistic: Say 30 rooms. 2,640.

Assume 1 m^3 block of granite. Lets make it 25 times less thick in one direction. 10cm thick in this direction is about 3 inches. Super thick slab still. What does this do to the dimensionality? Lets say we

Length = x
Width=x
Thickness=0.04m = 4cm ~1.5 inches

Want the volume the same.

Solve 0.04x^2 = 1

x^2= 100/4 = 25
x= 5

So each of these sheets has x^2=25 surface area it covers

So one of these (square in this case but it doesnt matter) blocks that are >1.5 inches thick cover 25 m^2 surface area.

Generous case: Takes ~40 of these to do the trick (aportioned into pieces perhaps of varying size)

Super pessimism case: Takes ~120 of these to do the trick (apportioned into pieces perhaps of varying sizes)

Also: Blah blah blah we're tessalating a prebuilt structure so we can't actually spread surface area out like you're doing here off the back of the napkin.

Yeah, I know but this seems a middling concern. We do everything room by room and lash those together.

Tl;dr:

Note we don't have enough 5SB sets to do each room individually anyway

Its unfeasible to 5SB literally every room.It would take either a ridiculous amount of paint or too many storage scrolls. (I think 40 is a bit much, 120 is way too much).

And waaaay too many sets of 5SB.

1)We can easily do a few rooms, strategically speaking.

2)We can easily do the outside walls (should be less of everything by a factor of 4).

We can probably do both (1) and (2)
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and

MMKII said:
IDEA:

We have about 20 hours of uninterrupted prep time with a bunch of super experienced Pangolin warriors, and a nigh unlimited amount of chakra relatively speaking.

We can likely take ~10-12 hours to prepare large underground defenses,tunnels and traps in each of the four locations now so that we dont have to later.

We can also use our remaining explosive loadouts to bomb out surrounding vegetation and whatnot now. And just stockpile all of it in aforementioned undeground tunnels.

We can also use our current prodigious chakra pool to MEW up a bunch of very thin rectangular sheets to 5SB later in Round 2. Store them in storage seals.

No need for paint shenangians!
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Note: On the other stuff: I have some bias towards assuming the proctors will not just move the locations since I see reconstructing all four of the bunkers to be a lot of work, and they have about 24 hours to do all this.
 
Traiden said:
Can any plan being made to have a line added about being emotionally mature about the break-up and still being friends with Akane. We should take her observations about Hazou and use them to grow as a person.
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May as well ask him to duel Jiraiya and win. We can guide Hazou indirectly, the most promising tactic being getting people like Hana or Mari to give advice, but at the end of the day Hazou is a teenager dealing with his first love breaking up with him while he's under astronomical amounts of pressure; we simply can't make him behave exactly as we would wish him to any more than we could rewrite his fundamental personality.
 
schlega said:
We could probably set up a couple of force walls and peel a log into a sheet of veneer.

I'd still rather not use 5sb at all though.
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That likely doesn't count as a single object for 5SB though.

And why not? The leap from 5SB to skytowers is an unintuitive one.
 
faflec said:
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Large-spoons question: Since we took out literally everyone else in the Exams, what were the other teams' composition? As in, who was Red/Blue team, and who was teamed up with who?

I remember that:
  • Team Kurenai, Team Downfall, and Team Kongō were Blue Team 1;
  • Team Asuma were in another Blue Team;
  • <Aina, Reo, Yui, Kotomi, Sara, Touma, Sana, Hatsumomo> were in another Blue Team;
  • <Hideyo, Niko, Miku, Hiroka, Nishikawa, Daiju, Miho, Kisato, Furui, Shibahara> were in another Red Team (and wtf there were 10 people listed, what's going on?);
  • Earth Team <?> were in another Blue team.
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We'll talk about this and get back to you, but you're right that it's a lot of spoons, so we may not have an answer for you before close of voting.

faflec said:
I was thinking more of "how did Hinata's team survive the first round of eliminations if their Second Round score wasn't that good, and their Third Round score wasn't good enough for Shikamaru to mention?".
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Apparently there was a typo in the post where we announced their scores. Several of them, in fact. We'll fix it but you can take it as given that Hinata et al are in fact safe.


faflec said:
So I'm confused, what time is it in-story? The update suggests that the round hasn't ended yet ("Of course, removing them from the cells before the end of the round would represent unfair interference with the scoring"), but later discussion and in-story discussion both suggests that the round has ended.
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Noumero said:
(N>0) hours before the event's end, I think. The rampage ended ~four hours after the start, so our team reported early, and Kages apparently agreed to end the event prematurely, but it's not clear how early. We could decide to retroactively spend part of the remaining ~twenty hours however we see fit. I think, for everything to stay consistent, we could report in as late as one hour until event's end.
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Adept_Woodwright said:
I think it would be consistent with the party theme if it's very near the end of the actual time allotment. Maybe 20-23 hours in, as it doesn't say the sun is setting on the mission report.

The event started at sundown, and we spent ~4+ hours doing stuff. Jiraiya is taking us out for 'dinner'

I suspect it is evening of the following day.
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The original idea was:
  1. The event started at sunset (5pm)
  2. The event was scheduled to end at sunset the next day (5pm)
  3. You were held at the proctor station for two hours (7pm)
  4. You kicked the asses of Team Letdown+ in ~20 minutes
  5. You took their documents and turned them in to the proctors within the first half hour of the event, nailing down your time-based score for round 1
  6. You went back out and kicked ass for somewhere between 2-4 hours (I'd need to math a bit, but I'll pay 1 XP if someone else does it instead)
  7. You went to the city gate and cashed out (~9-11pm)
I was then reminded that y'all had been promised the opportunity to use the hours between the end of punching and cashing out, so we're fudging the timeline a bit. We'll change the time for item #7 depending on what you vote for next. The only hint to its timing in the story is that Jiraiya used the word 'dinner', so it probably won't make a difference.
 
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