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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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I wonder what the IC analogue of the OOC leadership debate in this thread is for Hazou. Of course, we know that Hazou is effectively the only character in the story with real agency; everyone else is controlled by the QMs. We know that if we vote "Let Shikamaru be leader", we're effectively telling the QMs to figure things out themselves. Therefore, the hivemind always sought to maximize our control over the events transpiring. We don't rely on others to tell us what to do, even if it would make sense IC; we assert as much control as we can over our teammates' growth; we have our ongoing sealing research as a way of directly transforming OOC knowledge into IC advantages. Every update is a problem demanding a solution from us, which IC is delivered by Hazou.

So what does that say about Hazou as a character? I mentioned earlier that Hazou is not afraid of responsibility, a good quality for a leader. But how far does this go? Does Hazou believe, in his heart of hearts, that nothing will go well unless he personally oversees it? Is he developing a messiah complex?

Inspired by @Kurkistan's post about hivemind psychology; because hivemind psychology is, after a fashion, Hazou's psychology as well.

faflec said:
OH FUCK WE FORGOT TO ADD SPECIFIC CONTINGENCIES FOR MIST APPEARING AND THE LIKE FUUUUUUU
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Hmm, doesn't Mist drain not work through chakra-construct mist? I think it would have to be a chakra construct, unless they make it move to our position from the stream.
 
DuManHeiu said:
Does this work for inanimate objects too?
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I don't understand the question...?

Briefvoice said:
Whelp, time for some PUNCHING. It's been great to see this quest start back up, but we've been PUNCH-teased for the last couple of chapters. Looking forward to the PUNCH.

Seriously though, I don't really know how the GMs will handle deciding what teams show up at the ambush site, what strange and weird jutsu they may or may not have, and building them. That's a lot of antagonists to design! Presumably the scrub teams will be relatively easy... give them some combat skills and the Aspect "A Scrub Gets No Love". But the actual good teams should presumably all have advantages that make them good.

I'm also interested to see how the weirder jutsu translate mechanically. I mean, Shadow Control and Mind Transfer are "just win" buttons if they go off. I presume they're opposed with Resolve, but it'll be fascinating to see the details.
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Yeah...on this subject.

@Velorien has been feeling bad lately and may not be able to write the chapter. If he can't then either @OliWhail or I will pick it up. I'm not sure what Oli's tuit supply looks like right now, but I would be writing before and after work, leaving me with not a lot of time. In that case it would probably be another CfG update.
 
faflec said:
OH FUCK WE FORGOT TO ADD SPECIFIC CONTINGENCIES FOR MIST APPEARING AND THE LIKE FUUUUUUU
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You know, I did think about that... but ultimately, I think a long list of very specific contingencies is impractical for a group of this size and diversity.

The most important thing is that everyone knows what their overall role is, and then they work to fulfill that role as best they understand it. Setup is there to make the enemy more vulnerable and disable their tricks. Strikers are there to PUNCH. Ranged is there to manage the mid-field and lock-down or target enemies trying to keep their distance. C&C is there to provide overwatch and traffic control on the entire thing and to find special solutions for problems difficult to solve by punching.

Any specific contingency I think of is too dependent on the immediate tactical situation. Where is everybody? What are they doing? What is the source of the special problem? Etc. Etc. You have to trust that the GMs will simulate people managing their roles as appropriate.

Roomba said:
I wonder what the IC analogue of the OOC leadership debate in this thread is for Hazou. Of course, we know that Hazou is effectively the only character in the story with real agency; everyone else is controlled by the QMs. We know that if we vote "Let Shikamaru be leader", we're effectively telling the QMs to figure things out themselves. Therefore, the hivemind always sought to maximize our control over the events transpiring. We don't rely on others to tell us what to do, even if it would make sense IC; we assert as much control as we can over our teammates' growth; we have our ongoing sealing research as a way of directly transforming OOC knowledge into IC advantages. Every update is a problem demanding a solution from us, which IC is delivered by Hazou.

So what does that say about Hazou as a character? I mentioned earlier that Hazou is not afraid of responsibility, a good quality for a leader. But how far does this go? Does Hazou believe, in his heart of hearts, that nothing will go well unless he personally oversees it? Is he developing a messiah complex?
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It's not like he bulldozed his way in. Hazou nominated someone else and only accepted when Nara pushed it back on him. I think it's a reasonable call. No need for a reluctant leader. And as I describe above, the actual plan does not attempt to micromanage everyone too much. We give everyone their role and trust them to fulfill it.

Hmm, doesn't Mist drain not work through chakra-construct mist? I think it would have to be a chakra construct, unless they make it move to our position from the stream.
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Correct, it does not work through chakra-construct mist and so far as we know, we are the only people with a means of producing genuine mist on demand.

faflec said:
Wakahisa clan has a 10L barrel of water, and there is no way in hell they don't have storage scrolls with water in them.
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That's great, but turning that into an aerosol dispersal that will hang in the air is another matter.

eaglejarl said:
Yeah...on this subject.

@Velorien has been feeling bad lately and may not be able to write the chapter. If he can't then either @OliWhail or I will pick it up. I'm not sure what Oli's tuit supply looks like right now, but I would be writing before and after work, leaving me with not a lot of time. In that case it would probably be another CfG update.
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Sorry to hear that.... Hope V feels better.
 
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eaglejarl said:
Yeah...on this subject.

@Velorien has been feeling bad lately and may not be able to write the chapter. If he can't then either @OliWhail or I will pick it up. I'm not sure what Oli's tuit supply looks like right now, but I would be writing before and after work, leaving me with not a lot of time. In that case it would probably be another CfG update.
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RIP the punching :(

On a related note do you guys need some spoons to catch up with some jutsu specs (Pantokrator's Hammer, Syrup Trap...) or Keiko's Pangolins/Pangolin jutsu? The thread usually lulls a lot during Wednesday/Saturday while waiting for updates, so this is something we could try to help.

I don't know if you already have some ideas for these things but if you're willing to share them we can help finish them and resubmit them for your review.
 
faflec said:
  • The retcon'd chapter 162 had Nara sit still while a battle was raging, resulting in the teams being struck by lightning at range.
  • The QMs are 100% willing to kill us for insufficient planning, which is "letting the genius take the reins". We lost Minami that way. Also, by saying that you fuck us in that regard.
  • The Nara clan is not a clan of god-minds, seriously.
I cannot believe I'm having this conversation. Fuckity NO.
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Everything's settled and my diabolical plan to kill us all has failed, but to go back to this for a moment: Your line on "Also, by saying [that the QMs would be unwilling to kill us for letting the genius take the reins] you fuck us in that regard" (emphasis added in Quote). On a procedural level, what do you believe that I should have said here instead?

I didn't say those things about the QMs being kinder to Nara-lead plans out of some passive-aggression or attempt to be adversarial towards them. It was my read of this as both a game and a narrative that we should be relatively safe(ish) with Nara as the leader, and that this expectation is perfectly legitimate for questers to hold and for QMs to imply/abide by. I wasn't trying to strong-arm them into making us 110% safe with Nara in the lead, or planning mass boycotts if that turned out not to be the case because of factors I hadn't properly weighed/considered.

Let's assume for a moment that my wrong-headed ideas are correct, and that my "dirty meta-level reasoning about the QM's being unwilling to kill us for letting the genius take the reins" is an accurate read (or at least, given eaglejarl's later response, a less-strong phrasing of it like "less willing to kill us" is accurate). This read is in part driving my decision-making and argumentation, so past-me would like to convey it to others to bring them to his side.

What should I say in a world where I'm fucking us by saying these things out loud? Should I lie about my reasoning? Coyly omit mentioning it but still hint at it? Don't allude to it at all? PM all my interlocutors going "guys/gals I can't say this on the thread where the QMs might see, but..."?
 
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faflec said:
On a related note do you guys need some spoons to catch up with some jutsu specs (Pantokrator's Hammer, Syrup Trap...) or Keiko's Pangolins/Pangolin jutsu?
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We have PKH and ST done. I believe there was a list of suggested pangolins floating around at some point - if someone could link me to that it'd be much appreciated.
 
OliWhail said:
We have PKH and ST done. I believe there was a list of suggested pangolins floating around at some point - if someone could link me to that it'd be much appreciated.
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Too lazy to quote the list but IIRC we suggested:
  • Communications Pangolin
  • Genjutsu Pangolin
  • Buffing Pangolin
  • Ninjutsu Pangolin (long-ranged)
  • Defensive/Blocking Pangolin
  • Technique Hacking Pangolin
Edit: I think general consensus was to get the first 3.
 
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Okay, what we got here...
Adhoc vote count started by OliWhail on Feb 7, 2018 at 11:58 AM, finished with 79126 posts and 23 votes.
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eaglejarl said:
I don't understand the question...?


Yeah...on this subject.

@Velorien has been feeling bad lately and may not be able to write the chapter. If he can't then either @OliWhail or I will pick it up. I'm not sure what Oli's tuit supply looks like right now, but I would be writing before and after work, leaving me with not a lot of time. In that case it would probably be another CfG update.
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[x] Chosen for the Grave update, in which heroes learn the true meaning of OPSEC
 
Get better soon @Velorien!

Briefvoice said:
It's not like he bulldozed his way in. Hazou nominated someone else and only accepted when Nara pushed it back on him. I think it's a reasonable call. No need for a reluctant leader. And as I describe above, the actual plan does not attempt to micromanage everyone too much. We give everyone their role and trust them to fulfill it.
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It is a reasonable call, both IC and OOC. My point was more that Hazou's personality is influenced by what goes on in this thread. He developed his uplift ideas predominantly because this is what we talked about in the thread, rather than anything explicitly voted in via an action plan, for example. Stands to reason that our reluctance to surrender control would bleed through somehow as well.
 
Roomba said:
Get better soon @Velorien!



It is a reasonable call, both IC and OOC. My point was more that Hazou's personality is influenced by what goes on in this thread. He developed his uplift ideas predominantly because this is what we talked about in the thread, rather than anything explicitly voted in via an action plan, for example. Stands to reason that our reluctance to surrender control would bleed through somehow as well.
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And yet Hazou doesn't routinely have screaming attacks worse than Kagome, despite the phrase "screaming in Kagome" being a literal tag for this quest.
 
faflec said:
And yet Hazou doesn't routinely have screaming attacks worse than Kagome, despite the phrase "screaming in Kagome" being a literal tag for this quest.
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How do you know he doesn't and they just aren't shown, huh? :p

e: Also, I'm pretty (read: 75-ish%) sure he routinely has nightmares.
 
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Cariyaga said:
How do you know he doesn't and they just aren't shown, huh? :p

e: Also, I'm pretty (read: 75-ish%) sure he routinely has nightmares.
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Well... there's an interesting evolutionary psychology theory of dreams, which posits that they're "threat simulations". Quoting from Wikipedia: "It is suggested by this theory that dreams serve the purpose of allowing for the rehearsal of threatening scenarios in order to better prepare an individual for real-life threats.". Remind you of anything?
 
Roomba said:
Well... there's an interesting evolutionary psychology theory of dreams, which posits that they're "threat simulations". Quoting from Wikipedia: "It is suggested by this theory that dreams serve the purpose of allowing for the rehearsal of threatening scenarios in order to better prepare an individual for real-life threats.". Remind you of anything?
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Are we his nightmares?
 
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