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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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MrCogmor said:
Isn't the main reason for our current strategy to minimize the number of Mist seals that get soaked because when they get destroyed they have a decent chance of creating horrific seal failures?
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I'll just save some time and epileptic trees: the Night Light seals are not dangerous. That was what the retcon was about.

Roomba said:
Akane is the leader of her team, not Sakura. For some reason.
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Akane is older and has a lot more field experience.

Oneiros said:
Goo bombs are in shortish supply.
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True, although here's a reminder of a thing that Hazō would know: he has seen Jiraiya's version of the Goo Bomb seal, and therefore Hazō can draw the blank. Jiraiya would still need to infuse it, but that only takes a moment.

I don't recall that Hazō *has* drawn one of Jiraiya's Goo Bomb blanks; if not, he'll need to make a Calligraphy roll the first time. I don't remember the TN for that but I don't think it's super challenging.

faflec said:
On the OTHER hand Noburi can just drain [the clones] before they pop, and get all that chakra back.
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Noburi can drain his own clones (or possibly Water clones in general), but he can't hold onto the chakra. He must either use it immediately (i.e. the next turn) or lose it. This is as per chapter...9? 13? Whenever it was that they did the experiments.

Briefvoice said:
So the ambush locations are all some variation of "close to the rally point but still inside the competition area".
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They are outside the competition area. The CA is the swamp (which, yes, is really more of a marsh -- I didn't realize those words weren't synonyms) The ambush areas are the direct path from the edge of the swamp to the rally point. You have 30 mins from the time you're allowed to leave the swamp to the time you have to be at the rally point.
 
eaglejarl said:
They are outside the competition area. The CA is the swamp (which, yes, is really more of a marsh -- I didn't realize those words weren't synonyms) The ambush areas are the direct path from the edge of the swamp to the rally point. You have 30 mins from the time you're allowed to leave the swamp to the time you have to be at the rally point.
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So these fights will be coming in very rapid succession, as it all must happen within a half hour time period.

(taps head thinking)

True, although here's a reminder of a thing that Hazō would know: he has seen Jiraiya's version of the Goo Bomb seal, and therefore Hazō can draw the blank. Jiraiya would still need to infuse it, but that only takes a moment.

I don't recall that Hazō *has* drawn one of Jiraiya's Goo Bomb blanks; if not, he'll need to make a Calligraphy roll the first time. I don't remember the TN for that but I don't think it's super challenging.
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Guys, I think I'm going to put the goo bombs back into my plan.
 
Winged_One said:
Over...kill? What is that? I know what's 'not dead', I know the opposite - 'just-enough-kill', but what's overkill?
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I vaguely recall, back during the 2007 conflict in which Hamas seized control of the Gaza Strip, reading about a Fatah man that was shot in the head on the order of thirty times. That's overkill. By the time he'd taken ten bullets (max) to the braincase, he was dead. Everything past that point was just wasted effort, or Hamas guys having fun.
 
I mean, we'll have a month's worth of preparation time for the tournament, so Jiraiya can infuse us whatever we want, so long as we draw him the blanks. So the only reason to hold back on seals is opsec. And the seals we want to keep secret are the ones that can realistically be countered, like pepper macerators. You counter a Goo Bomb the same way you counter an explosive tag, by getting clear of the blast radius.

Briefvoice said:
So these fights will be coming in very rapid succession, as it all must happen within a half hour time period.

(taps head thinking)
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Yeah, that's the main reason I'm so concerned about having more enemies arrive while we're fighting. If we're unlucky, the whole thing will become a huge chaotic slugfest. We're essentially blocking the most obvious path to the rally point. Lots of stupid things can happen depending on what decisions the arriving teams make.
 
eaglejarl said:
I don't recall that Hazō *has* drawn one of Jiraiya's Goo Bomb blanks; if not, he'll need to make a Calligraphy roll the first time. I don't remember the TN for that but I don't think it's super challenging.
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I'm fairly certain that the plan that resulted in our getting Jiraiya's goo bombs called for us to draw them in his style for him to infuse rather than wasting his time with drawing it himself? @faflec, do you recall?
 
I'm pretty sure that using Jiraiya's Goo Bombs in the tournament would be kinda eeeeeh, so I'm all for it.
 
Cariyaga said:
I'm fairly certain that the plan that resulted in our getting Jiraiya's goo bombs called for us to draw them in his style for him to infuse rather than wasting his time with drawing it himself? @faflec, do you recall?
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Here's the plan (or a plan) that called for us learning how to draw Jiraiya-style Goo Bombs, since we wanted to make sure to "fake" making our own Goo Bombs; the Exam Seal Loadout here gave us Kagome/Jiraiya seals . These two things may or may not have been related.
 
Cariyaga said:
I'm pretty sure that using Jiraiya's Goo Bombs in the tournament would be kinda eeeeeh, so I'm all for it.
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Actually, this is probably something that Hazou woudl have a decent idea of: Would using Jiraiya's Goo Bombs in the tournament fall under "Good Ninjas Cheat" or "Not showing his own skills"?
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail
  • What are Keiko's 4 unspecified Pangolins, that she got from the second Skytower trade; and what are their abilities?
  • What is the 5th Pangolin jutsu we got, and what are its specs?
  • What are specs for Water Release: Syrup Trap and Pantokrator's Hammer?
  • What does Hazou know of his allies (Team Asuma, Team Guy, Team Akane) in terms of their abilities?
 
Cariyaga said:
Actually, this is probably something that Hazou woudl have a decent idea of: Would using Jiraiya's Goo Bombs in the tournament fall under "Good Ninjas Cheat" or "Not showing his own skills"?
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I swear I remember seeing that asked before, and the answer being that it wouldn't be a great look.

But really, it's not an either/or. If Hazou used a Jiraiya goo-bomb to trivialize a fight against someone he could have fought normally, then that's not a great look. On the other hand, suppose his opponent has some cheat bloodline/technique that would make it impossible for Hazou to fight them normally? Then using a goo bomb to cancel out their cheat is just "doing whatever it takes" to win, and it's his opponent who has to prove that they can find a way to win even when their normal trump card gets canceled.

Basically, my take is that the greater the initial power disparity, the more Hazou gets forgiven for resorting to 'cheats' to win anyway. Like, if he had to go up against jinchuriki in the tournament, then sure, whatever advantage he can manage!
 
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Okay, I need to tally things so I can figure out which plans are on the table, but the other thing:

I'm not sure we can definitely say the other ninja will have chakra, or at very minimum that we can transfer it between fights.

My reasoning is as follows:

There's a thirty minute window where all teams must head to the proctors if they want to be counted.

Assuming there are a hundred teams or so, at the absolute worst case scenario there'll be three teams every minute. Assuming that somehow only one fifth of the teams decide to even attempt the run, that still makes three teams every five minutes. I'm not sure that that tempo of fighting at high chakra burn is going to be sustainable, at all; maybe we should tell them to "not be conservative, but you don't have unlimited chakra" sort of deal.
Adhoc vote count started by Oneiros on Feb 5, 2018 at 9:17 PM, finished with 222 posts and 12 votes.
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Briefvoice said:
I swear I remember seeing that asked before, and the answer being that it wouldn't be a great look.

But really, it's not an either/or. If Hazou used a Jiraiya goo-bomb to trivialize a fight against someone he could have fought normally, then that's not a great look. On the other hand, suppose his opponent has some cheat bloodline/technique that would make it impossible for Hazou to fight them normally? Then using a goo bomb to cancel out their cheat is just "doing whatever it takes" to win, and it's his opponent who has to prove that they can find a way to win even when their normal trump card gets canceled.

Basically, my take is that the greater the initial power disparity, the more Hazou gets forgiven for resorting to 'cheats' to win anyway. Like, if he had to go up against jinchuriki in the tournament, then sure, whatever advantage he can manage!
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I'm going to observe that you still have Hazou giving away Goo Bombs to use here, and again voice out my support in favor of removing using them unless absolutely necessary.
 
Damn, I just had the thought of if we had stayed out in the wilderness as missing ninja until we were our mid 20s we could have avoided all this by being promoted due to active duty time. Is it to late for doing a retcon back to when we were missing ninja and voting for a time skip. /s
 
faflec said:
I'm going to observe that you still have Hazou giving away Goo Bombs to use here, and again voice out my support in favor of removing using them unless absolutely necessary.
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Now that I realize what an accelerated timeline we're on, I think that goo bombs become our best option. This is <30 minutes to beat 4 to 8 teams. They're going to come hard and come fast, and we might not have time for a Noburi recharge in between. We might have literally less than a minute between fights. Liberal use of goo bombs will let us not waste time chasing down fleeing teams and put a big enough hindrance on them and they don't take our chakra to use.

Add to that, knowing we used some sort of goo bomb doesn't provide an easy counter, and I think it's worth the price. In a way, this Exam is all about carefully rationing out your advantages. Don't use them too soon... but definitely don't use them too late!
 
@Briefvoice I will once again beg you to change the formatting of your Preparations and Hunting like raptors sections. I have provided for you re-formatted versions below; literally just copy+paste this. There are no changes with regards to content, only formatting. I'm trying to get the QMs to give us more XP because it's easier on their eyes.

Preparations:
  • Everyone:
    • Familiarizes themselves with the area, to gain an Aspect related to knowing the lay of the land.
    • (With enough trust) Everyone gives Kawarimi permissions until the end of this Exam Stage.
    • Selects and chooses a spot to hide in. Be ready to move in one enemies once any member of our team spots prey.
      • Make stealth attempt, but don't count on everyone making a successful Stealth check. The enemy will likely see somebody; the question is how many of us they realize are there.
      • Generally, follow Shikamaru's advice from earlier: Neji/Shikamaru in a central position, everyone else around the perimeter.
        • Form a half circle that can be collapsed into an envelopment when enemy appears.
        • As plausible have teams grouped closer together to promote team synergy.
      • Ponder usage of Silence Mines for additional Stealth; if reasonable (and doesn't fuck OPSEC) suggest for all teams.
    • Keep on alert.
      • If enemy tries to sneak by, closest person becomes point of wedge to take them on.
        • We don't have a means of mass communication (unless someone else came up with one), so if a sneaking enemy is spotted any members of our group spotting them are authorized to start the ambush and everyone else moves in to support.
      • If the enemy spots some of us and charges in, swarm them.
      • If the enemy spots some of us, and tries to reverse course to flee, goo bomb them to pin them down as we swarm them.
      • If enemy isn't using stealth and somehow hasn't seen us, hit them when they get to the center of the envelopment.
  • Individuals:
    • Noburi: Refills everyone who uses chakra, and get chakra from ambient life.
    • Keiko: Summons Panashe, who hides herself in preparation for contingency.
      • Keiko reminds Panashe about the no-killing, no-permanent-damage rules (seriously, she was bloodthirsty in her showing).
Hunting like raptors:
  • General rules:
    • Nonlethal only, as if it has to be said. Be fast, be efficient, (if possible) be quiet about it.
    • Use chakra. Our enemies have it, and Noburi can transfer it to us.
      • However do not discount the possibility of two fights in a row.
  • When we spot a team, move in on them as a group.
    • If more than three enemies are around at once, Keiko Ten-Ten, and whomever is third best at thrown weapons tosses goo bomb seals at half of them to slow them down while we engage the other half.
  • Tactics:
    • Whoever gets there first should try to utilize Blocks to stop enemy from getting away if it looks like they want to escape.
      • Chouji, Akane, and Lee (our three best taijutsu specialists who are not damage-specialized like Neji) will concentrate on setting up Blocks to keep the enemy from moving anywhere or being able to attack. Leaves everyone else free to hit them.
        • Potentially substitute others in this role if they want to reveal special skills that would make them better for it.
    • Meanwhile everyone else concentrates on putting them down as quickly and silently as possible.
      • Silently means avoid usage of explosives or banshee seals unless enemy proves unexpectedly difficult and we aren't winning quickly.
      • Haruno and Shikamaru may use their genjutsu/shadow jutsu to stop and/or paralyze opponents.
    • As possible use inter-team synergy (e.g., Sakura and Shikamaru can snag enemies with genjutsu/Kagemane for other combatants to KO).
    • Noburi drains all enemy ninjas of chakra during and after combat.
    • Seal usage:
      • Pass out goo bomb seals to the rest of the team and use them as needed to pin down opponents.
      • Use fire log macerators only as a last resort if enemies seem overwhelming and have already resorted to lethal force and we need to scatter/block them to preserve team lives.
  • Lookout Contingency:
    • Panashe stays out of regular combat and some distance in front of us, stealthed.
    • Her job is to keep on the look-out for another team attempting to ambush us while we're in the middle of a fight or alternately trying to sneak past us.
    • If she sees enemies inbound, and we're fighting, she lets us know by tossing some training explosive seals at them (if she's having trouble with/can't activate seals, she can just yell or something).
 
faflec said:
I'm going to observe that you still have Hazou giving away Goo Bombs to use here, and again voice out my support in favor of removing using them unless absolutely necessary.
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100% disagree with this. Since we will be able to restock with Jiraiya level seals no reason to handicap ourselves.

Also really dislike the fact that we aren't using burning log macerators aggressively. They are a great way to force teams to move towards our ambush. They also work as a way to keep teams from approaching us if we are outnumbered. Strongly advice revising your stance on them @Briefvoice
 
Briefvoice said:
Now that I realize what an accelerated timeline we're on, I think that goo bombs become our best option. This is <30 minutes to beat 4 to 8 teams. They're going to come hard and come fast, and we might not have time for a Noburi recharge in between. We might have literally less than a minute between fights. Liberal use of goo bombs will let us not waste time chasing down fleeing teams and put a big enough hindrance on them and they don't take our chakra to use.

Add to that, knowing we used some sort of goo bomb doesn't provide an easy counter, and I think it's worth the price. In a way, this Exam is all about carefully rationing out your advantages. Don't use them too soon... but definitely don't use them too late!
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I'm going to observe that Goo Bombs only work for preventing movement between zones, not movement within a zone...based on the docs, at least.

With that being said, you have a point; I'll suggest we avoid using Jiraiya's Goo Bombs since I'm pretty sure Kagome's bombs are strong enough we can at least try to pretend our Goo Bomb supply isn't insane...and then bust it out later for more fuckery.
OliWhail said:
I would have sworn this was in there...
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It's not, unless there's a newer version of the rule docs I'm not aware of. Can we have the most recent version?
 
Oneiros said:
Also really dislike the fact that we aren't using burning log macerators aggressively. They are a great way to force teams to move towards our ambush. They also work as a way to keep teams from approaching us if we are outnumbered. Strongly advice revising your stance on them @Briefvoice
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Sorry, I didn't notice this while I was typing my previous response. I'd argue that, given the location we're going to, we shouldn't use a burning log macerator. We're going to a meadow filled with dried-out grass, and that seems very easy to catch fire...which would result in the entire battleground going up in flames, literally. Methinks people would try to avoid our location after that.
 
faflec said:
I'm going to observe that Goo Bombs only work for preventing movement between zones, not movement within a zone...based on the docs, at least.
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Goo Bombs said:
The goo is practically weightless by itself, and hampers movement by being unbelievably adhesive rather than heavy. Putting the goo in boiling water does not cause it to boil or come apart. It becomes somewhat stiffer when placed in contact with ice for a couple minutes. (suggested physical properties - Oli). Goo bomb rolls (up to maker's Sealing skill) vs Athletics of anyone in range. Anyone who loses acquires the Aspect "Stuck in Place" for the duration of the scene, 30 minutes, or until they succeed on a Maneuver with an appropriate skill to remove the Aspect, whichever occurs first. This Aspect prevents Sprint actions and the use of Athletics as a defensive roll.
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Dunno about that.
 
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