Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
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- United States
How deep does the rabbit hole go?!
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
This has been brought up before.
I think it was slightly before we went into the killbox? Maybe before we went into Leaf?
EDIT: Its usually paired with someone pointing out that Lupchanzen are probably based off of Zetsu.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I've wondered if anyone would remember that bit. We drop hints all the time and it's always interesting to see which ones get picked up on and which don't. Good memory.
Welcome, new person!
I think the idea wasn't abandoned, it simply was put on hold due to in-game events. It's a thing you could work on once plot resumes and you get to the month-long training break before the end of the Exams.
Speaking of plot resuming....
You guys have been great about working constructively with us on the rules revisions, and being patient as it goes on. Believe me, we are just as eager to get started again as you are.
There's three things that need to happen before we can start writing plot again:
- The QMs need to tie down the bits of the rules that are still under discussion. We're working on it.
- We need to receive and address player feedback. (Some of this has happened already.)
- The character sheets need to be rebuilt under the new rules.
It would be great if the players could take lead on creating the character sheets. It will help to surface exploits in the rules and areas that are still ambiguous or incomplete, as well as helping the QMs prioritize what to work on. The ideal thing would be if several different versions of the characters could be built and then discussed / voted on so that everyone ends up happy -- or, at least, minimally sad. I believe there is already at least one version of Hazō floating around; if whoever created it wanted to link it, that would be great.
These sheets should be built based on the current XP totals for each character, although we are probably going to hand out some bonus XP on top of the current totals in order to help bridge the gap between the systems. It's not yet certain how much and whether or not everyone will get the same amount, but having a skeleton to build on would really help us with that decision.
In the meantime, if you have feedback / outstanding issues / etc then please chime in. @Cariyaga: We took your point about healing being underpowered. There's a new, more powerful, candidate version in the QM rules doc that's been signed off by two of the QMs and we're waiting for the third to be available.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Hmm, if we can confirm with Kagome that those were, in fact, lupchanzen, we have a second prospective location to find them (apart from the Sky Squids). If we (or some other Leaf team) hunt one down and capture it, we could potentially learn a lot.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
screaming in Kagome, the classic edition
- Location
- USA
The discussion of medical ninjutsu reminded me of something brought up a while back, that the upper echelons of the art would allow for feats such as reconnecting a severed limb. Which made me think, how would an amputation (and other, similarly permanent injuries) be handled under the new ruleset? It can't just be a Severe consequence, since those can heal within months on their own. It could maybe be an Aspect? But that doesn't seem right, either, since at least in the short term it should definitely take up a consequence slot. Maybe a Severe consequence that "heals" by turning into an Aspect? Something else? Or is this situation already covered by the rules, and I just didn't notice?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Oh, i didn't add in Examination there, give me a bit to fix that.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Alright, it should be right now. Got Summoning added in, and reordered a few things so that it was properly alphabetical.
e: Does the following count as physical skills for Iron Nerve?:
- Craftsmanship
- Cracking
- Calligraphy
- Physique
- Survival
Kurosawa Hazou: He's looking more than a little lacking right now. I think it might be necessary to flat out increase XP earned in the past and from hereon out by a certain amount. Times 1.3 maybe?
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Kind of agree. It may have been great in Augjev, but it has no benefit in Fated to Die that I can see.
On which note: Ishihara Akane, again severely lacking on XP. Neither she nor Hazou can afford to level any jutsu or anything other than the absolute basics if they want to be remotely Chuunin Exam level.
I don't think it's being used in the current version, but Fate Core's got Extreme Consequences, which do replace normal Aspects. You can only take one per Major Milestone, as they represent a truly horrific injury or other bad situation, and they can't be conventionally healed - only dealt with at future Major Milestones. So, they don't really fit the Fated to Die system too well
.Also, Consequences do count as Aspects while they're on your sheet - enemies can tag them for bonuses, and you can tag them for bonuses if you somehow leverage your injury/reputation hit/what-have-you to your advantage. They're just temporary Aspects which go away when healed. You could represent a missing limb Consequence being healed by not only the wound being gone, but also the character having gotten a prosthetic, learned to use their other hand as their primary, or whatever else in the fiction represents them not being as badly hampered by the missing limb as they once were.
Either way, I think the easiest option is just avoiding it - taking a limb off without killing someone is pretty hard, after all, and we've got a med-nin in the party for anything less. Especially in a setting where large bladed weapons are pretty rare - most massive trauma would be from blunt impacts (like Chakra-enhanced Taijutsu), explosives, or elemental jutsu - none of which are incredibly likely to remove a limb while leaving the target alive.
It's a funny thing about the Ninja Hands trait - it means fighting unarmed is strictly better than Weapon 1, and compares pretty well to Weapon 2 (as it's more likely to hit, but does less damage on a roll they'd both hit with). You need to go all the way to Weapon 3 (or add other bonuses) for an attack to be unambiguously better than punching.
Punching being great is appropriate to the setting, so Ninja Hands is still good, but it does inflate how good other attacks need to be to stay competitive. I could see an argument for giving unarmed attacks Weapon 1 instead, to smooth things out a bit, but then they're just the same as kunai, which is less interesting for differentiating the fighting styles. Then again, the fact that (all else being equal) a combat ninja fighting unarmed will consistently beat a combat ninja fighting with a knife is a little silly
.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
It's more than just ninja hands skewing things: It's that Water Whip has no benefits. It's a basic attack against someone in melee, only it costs chakra to activate. Which, I mean, if you want to attack someone in melee... just punch them?It's a funny thing about the Ninja Hands trait - it means fighting unarmed is strictly better than Weapon 1, and compares pretty well to Weapon 2 (as it's more likely to hit, but does less damage on a roll they'd both hit with). You need to go all the way to Weapon 3 (or add other bonuses) for an attack to be unambiguously better than punching.
Punching being great is appropriate to the setting, so Ninja Hands is still good, but it does inflate how good other attacks need to be to stay competitive. I could see an argument for giving unarmed attacks Weapon 1 instead, to smooth things out a bit, but then they're just the same as kunai, which is less interesting for differentiating the fighting styles. Then again, the fact that (all else being equal) a combat ninja fighting unarmed will consistently beat a combat ninja fighting with a knife is a little silly
e: There is one easy way to make it worthwhile though: Make chakra boosting it last for its duration. But that might be a bit much.
e2: Maybe one of Noburi's Stunts could do that, though?
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Eh, just give it better numbers. If ninja punching is worth a +3 to your effective skill, I don't see why ninja magic whip couldn't get a similar bonus, and probably a Weapon rating as well. If it takes actions and Chakra to activate, it should be strictly better than mundane attacks (armed or unarmed); otherwise, why would anyone bother with jutsu?
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Perhaps the lupchanz (if that's what they were) was what were driving everything out of their normal hunting range?
If we do that, we can also collect samples of chakra beasts/plants for Noburi to look over for fun chemicals once we're
Paralytics
Sedatives
Antibiotics (to kill all of the chakra plagues trying to kill them of course
)Poisons in general
Insecticides
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Winged_One
Head Engineer of ATHENA
- Location
- Low Earth Orbit
Perhaps the lupchanz (if that's what they were) was what were driving everything out of their normal hunting range?
If we do that, we can also collect samples of chakra beasts/plants for Noburi to look over for fun chemicals once we'renot in a place trying to eat us aliveback in Konoha. Possible ideas for chemicals the chakra beasts may have:
Paralytics
Sedatives
Antibiotics (to kill all of the chakra plagues trying to kill them of course
Poisons in general
Insecticides
Personally, I am more interested in discovering how animals gather and store chakra. They must be doing that naturally somehow, and discovering how they do that has potential to give us infinite chakra batteries.
I'd put Hazou's Empathy higher than 5. Since that's the skill to detect lies, which was previously covered by Deception -- which he was speccing into.
E: Also, Hazou has MedKnow 1.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I'd love to add all of that stuff. But we were asked to limit ourselves to the XP we had in the other system (that had far fewer skills), and I'd rather Hazou be alive throughout the chuunin exams, so combat skills are a must.
e: That said, you're more than welcome to make a copy and whatever changes you'd like; just modify the skills number and the rest (except the number of skills from 10-19, etc.) will autocalc.
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- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Do we know whether they gather chakra, or create it? I also would like to research this.
Hypothesis:
Chakra is created by chakra beasts, rather than being gathered from the surrounding environment.
Experiment:
Take a container which will not let chakra into or out of it (Noburi's barrel, but without any chakra or chakra water inside), add one small chakra beast which is unable to escape from the container. Have Noburi drain the creature almost dry, and leave it in the container for a certain amount of time (preferably the amount of time it would take the creature to regain all of their chakra if it was outside of the container). Have Noburi check on the creature's chakra level.
If the creature regains most of its chakra while in the barrel, it is probably creating chakra. If not, it may be gathering chakra from the surrounding environment and is unable to do so because it's stuck in a barrel that doesn't contain chakra.
It might also be important to make sure the creature can survive for the necessary amount of time in the container. The creature suffocating after a few minutes might skew the results a bit.
Further experimentation:
Hypothesis:
There is a single organ responsible for either gathering or creating chakra.
Experiment: Noburi takes a bunch of members of the same species of chakra beast (ideally a species with a relatively well known anatomy) and
If a vital organ can be completely removed for an extended period of time without the creature dying (as long as the creature is fed chakra water to make sure it has enough chakra), then that organ is probably important for either generating or gathering chakra.
If a creature dies from having an organ destroyed despite having sufficient chakra levels to survive, that organ at least does something other than creating/gathering chakra. Hopefully the organ responsible for chakra generation/gathering doesn't do any other important things.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail (Also @Erolki because you're an expert in Fate)
I, uh... kind of find the whole "there are 5 different defensive skills" (Resolve, Physique, Presence, Athletics, Awarenes) thing to be... a little silly, and more than a little awkward from a character-building perspective. Not actually saying anything else here -- just wanted to bring that up and see if it could be brought into perspective for me.
I, uh... kind of find the whole "there are 5 different defensive skills" (Resolve, Physique, Presence, Athletics, Awarenes) thing to be... a little silly, and more than a little awkward from a character-building perspective. Not actually saying anything else here -- just wanted to bring that up and see if it could be brought into perspective for me.
Winged_One
Head Engineer of ATHENA
- Location
- Low Earth Orbit
Do we know whether they gather chakra, or create it? I also would like to research this.
Hypothesis:
Chakra is created by chakra beasts, rather than being gathered from the surrounding environment.
Experiment:
Take a container which will not let chakra into or out of it (Noburi's barrel, but without any chakra or chakra water inside), add one small chakra beast which is unable to escape from the container. Have Noburi drain the creature almost dry, and leave it in the container for a certain amount of time (preferably the amount of time it would take the creature to regain all of their chakra if it was outside of the container). Have Noburi check on the creature's chakra level.
If the creature regains most of its chakra while in the barrel, it is probably creating chakra. If not, it may be gathering chakra from the surrounding environment and is unable to do so because it's stuck in a barrel that doesn't contain chakra.
It might also be important to make sure the creature can survive for the necessary amount of time in the container. The creature suffocating after a few minutes might skew the results a bit.
Further experimentation:
Hypothesis:
There is a single organ responsible for either gathering or creating chakra.
Experiment: Noburi takes a bunch of members of the same species of chakra beast (ideally a species with a relatively well known anatomy) andstarts poking holescreates surgical lesions in a different vital organ in each one, feeding them chakra water to keep them alive.
If a vital organ can be completely removed for an extended period of time without the creature dying (as long as the creature is fed chakra water to make sure it has enough chakra), then that organ is probably important for either generating or gathering chakra.
If a creature dies from having an organ destroyed despite having sufficient chakra levels to survive, that organ at least does something other than creating/gathering chakra. Hopefully the organ responsible for chakra generation/gathering doesn't do any other important things.
5SB blocks chakra, IIRC.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I don't think so, actually. It was hinted that doing experiments with Bullshit Eyes Clan 2 (The Hyuuga) would reveal interesting things.
Ideally, he looks something like this. May have missed a few things, naturally. My guess of *1.3 XP wasn't too far off at all.
e:May be very different for other characters, though. Particularly Noburi; he'd be hit hard by the nerf to ninjutsu (not getting half cost for elemental jutsu past the first)
Hmm. In Fate Core, you only really have 3 defensive skills (there's only two stress tracks, Mental and Physical, so you don't need a social toughness skill; Awareness is less important, as combat's less lethal [so losing Initiative isn't as bad], Stealth is less universal, and you'd use Will [Resolve] to defend against mental attacks; this leaves Athletics, Physique, and Will as the core defensive skills, plus most of the melee and social combat skills can be used for some sort of parrying or another, and Awareness/Empathy defend against trickery), and most characters would only prioritize one or two of them (as combat's less lethal, it's safer to take a couple hits while supporting the specialist).
So, pile of ideas to simplify things: unite the Mental and Social stress tracks (to remove the need for a separate social toughness skill), reduce Awareness' role against Genjutsu (slightly awkward, and ninja combat's sneaky and lethal enough that Awareness is still extra-important), or wrap Physique into Athletics (probably leaves it overpowered as a defensive Skill, and also doesn't fit as well simulationally). I'm sure there's more out there, but that's what comes to mind in 5 minutes.
I think Awareness just being more important in Fated to Die is probably fine, on the whole, and had forgotten (until just now when I went and looked everything up again) that Fate Core doesn't have a separate Social Stress track (which would have been awkward to miss, given I'm pushing to remove Presence in favour of Provoke
). Given Social Stress and Mental Stress are clearly related things in a way Physical Stress isn't, collapsing the three Stress Tracks down to two might be the cleanest option (also, from a simulationist perspective, I'd certainly say my lived experience says those two types of stress are, at the least, heavily interconnected).Hmn. I'd sort of expect Pangolin Training Jutsu to boost Physique. Akane with Physique 20 (instead of, like, over twice that) doesn't really gel with the narrative description of her.