Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Not really cool to change things after we make a battle plan centered around new Jutsu and not letting us change the plan
- Location
- Europe
*sigh* Alrighty.
{X} Marry into the Yamanaka Clan because I don't want to live in a world without telepathy
Making it a slightly crappier version and a Wind jutsu? After all Keiko felt the Jutsu, maybe remove the XP cost reduction so that Keiko/Mari/Jiraiya can use it but not extremly cheap? Make open channels to talk high level ? I mean we know that the Pangolin have a long-range comm technique:
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- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
So, since we're losing PC, we should definitely have Keiko learn this from Inoue when we get back:
Probably doesn't stop Hyuga from listening in, but it's a step in the right direction.
Probably doesn't stop Hyuga from listening in, but it's a step in the right direction.
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
*sigh* PC has been a thing we've been wanting for a long while. How about a Nerf instead? A modified, and less effective, version of the pangolin innate communication technique?
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
@eaglejarl , @OliWhail , @Velorien:
A good option would be to add a fixed cost to adding any new person to the connection (5cp?). Between that and super linear costs for bringing people into any link (for n participants: ceil(n2/2) cp per round in combat, n2 cp per minute + n d awarenesses malus out of combat *something something focus something something efficiency*)
Additional rules/clarifications:
- Nobody can be in more than one PC link at a time.
- Only the initiator of the link can add more people to the link, they are the ones who pay the chairs costs.
- The initiator has to pay the fixed cost for themselves.
- Dropping people from a link is free, and reduces the ongoing cost.
- People can be added to the link with a quick action, but the fixed cp cost has to be paid, and the ongoing costs increase.
- Range is still 5m * PC level.
- Max number of people in a link is still PC level.
- The out of combat awareness malus applies to everyone in the link.
- A non-pangolin initiator can add a pangolin to the network for just the fixed cost, pangolin do not contribute to the ongoing costs of a link. (Their biology is built for this, everyone else needs to spend energy to replicate it)
- A pangolin initiator has to pay the ongoing cost for all the non-pangolin in the link, but pays no fixed cost for adding anyone to the link.
- Non-pangolin initiators need line of sight to their target (pangolin or otherwise) to add them to a link (though LoS can be broken afterwards, as long as people stay within the range of the jutsu)
- Pangolin initiators need vague knowledge of where other pangolin are to add them to a link (in the living room), and need LoS to any non-pangolin they add to the link.
- Adult pangolin all have an effective PC level 12 higher than their base PC level.
- PC is only learnable by humans and pangolin, other sentients would need technique hacking to make a version that works for them.
The general rule is as follows:
- Fixed costs depend on the initiator (pangolin: 0, otherwise: 5)
- Ongoing costs depend on the participant (pangolin: n += 0, otherwise: n += 1)
- LoS requirements is worst of initiator and individual target (pangolin: vague knowledge, otherwise: direct LoS)
This makes PC much less viable for combat use, and makes it clearly inferior the pangolin version. It also means you don't have to rewrite the previous posts.
Add some fluff about a past pangolin summoner trying to recreate the pangolin innate communication technique and you're set.
The point of all of this is to make it clear that PC is a hack that humans can use to work with the pangolin innate communication technique.
Like, at this point I want to keep PC for the out of combat use. If you really want to nerf it, bump the fixed cost, remove the divide by 2 on the in-combat cost, and make the awareness malus ceil(n2/2).
Edit: There's still a bit of a munchkin strat where you have Hazou, Keiko, and Noburi have their own disjoint links, and bridge them by talking to each other. But I'd double/triple the awareness malus for anyone trying to extend the link that way.
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Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
Hence why we handwave it as something a previous summoner came up with while trying to replicate that technique. Which has the added bonus of explaining why it's so much less versatile and more costly.
When Keiko asked for the pangolin talk jutsu she got a response of "You don't have a chakra system that will let you do that, but one of our early summoners made a jutsu that let them initiate connections with pangolin and other people. We've got a scroll lying around somewhere...."
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- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Personally was very confused when it was ruled that the pangolins talked telepathically. Really felt like it was a special ability.
- Location
- Australia
Just because they have telepathy in that manner, doesn't mean they cant have a different technique that can mimic it but with different strengths and weaknesses.
Something like they have native point-point telepathy.
But they could ALSO have a technique with significant chakra upkeep cost that allows a LOS GroupChat.
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@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail
Given that several scenes in the past chapters now depend on PC, wouldn't it be easier at this point just to say that it's a jutsu they came up with to extend "how they talk" over longer distances?
Given that several scenes in the past chapters now depend on PC, wouldn't it be easier at this point just to say that it's a jutsu they came up with to extend "how they talk" over longer distances?
- Location
- Australia
Why would you ever burn the XP on Earth Armor though?
Better to just not take it at all.
Right now, GS gives +3 Tai, and EA gives +1, but also imposes -14 TM. That's because EA (of which we have level 3) gives +1 Tai per two levels, and imposes -15 TM which decreases by 1 per two levels.
As far as combat bonuses go, EA sucks right now, but at level 30, GS is still giving +3, while EA is giving +15 with no TM penalty. With the added bonus that raising EA raises the cap for half-price doton.
If we have to choose which defensive jutsu Hazou uses, I'd say go for EA in the long term, but use our low level GS (possibly raised by a few extra single-digit levels to increase our tankiness) until the TM penalty becomes manageable.
As far as combat bonuses go, EA sucks right now, but at level 30, GS is still giving +3, while EA is giving +15 with no TM penalty. With the added bonus that raising EA raises the cap for half-price doton.
If we have to choose which defensive jutsu Hazou uses, I'd say go for EA in the long term, but use our low level GS (possibly raised by a few extra single-digit levels to increase our tankiness) until the TM penalty becomes manageable.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Because Earth Armor is an exceptional technique?
It gives us a way to regenerate the ablative effect of Pangolin Training Jutsu, and for Hazou (and Jiraiya), provides them a substantial bonus to taijutsu for extremely cheap chakra cost. Its one downside dissapears at level 30, at which level it also provides +15 taijutsu dice for 20 chakra a minute.
- Location
- Australia
Then why spend XP on Ghost Scales?
Basically why would you take and level both? vs spending that XP on one technique.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
EA isn't even a consideration till we get it to level 14. Until then it's combat boost doesn't pass what we get from macerator rings
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Well, I did say we should use GS instead until EA becomes viable. Although my opinion of "viable" is at level 20, when the TM penalty is only -5.
Edit: hang on. If we're only using a single quick action per turn on defence then doesn't that mean we can use the other on rings?
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Because while Pangolin Training Jutsu is active, there is less of a reason to be using Earth Armor; therefore, use Ghost Scales, which synergizes exceptionally well with PTJ.
Personally, I feel that PC can be easily reconciled as just "We studied our natural telepathy and made a technique that does the same thing but better!" but, assuming that the QMs aren't going to go for that...
Let's talk options.
Magical bullshit (henceforth called "jutsu") can be roughly categorised into the following groups:
The pangolins are a Proud Warrior Race TM and very culturally encouraged towards flashy destructive fighting styles. The condors, on the other hand, are fragile speedsters (from the little info we have), so we can probably expect more subtlety and precision. So that's a fairly good mix.
Finally, let's look at our characters, and how they're built.
Suggested Techniques
Condor Training Jutsu
(Requires the user to have DEX and WIT 6. Maxes out at level 1. Requires meditation to cast. 1CP/hr)
The user takes -1d100 to DEX or WIT based skills. For each 10XP earned, the user gains 1XP which is placed in a fund that can only be used to raise DEX and WIT.
Pantorkrator's Rage Technique
(RES*2, WIT*2, COM*2, ?CP)
The user throws psychic backlash at genjutsu users trying to target them. When rolling Awareness against Genjutsu, the user may add a number of dice to their roll up to their PR level, paying 5CP per extra dice. If the user wins the contest, they deal a wound to the genjutsu caster equal to their success level.
Let's talk options.
Magical bullshit (henceforth called "jutsu") can be roughly categorised into the following groups:
- Offensive (does some kind of harm to an enemy: wounds, penalties, etc.)
- Range: Close/Medium/Long
- Target Defence(s): TacMov, Nin/Tai (seem to defend against the same things), Awareness, other? (rare defence types are obviously more valuable in an attack), some combination thereof.
- Conspicuousness: attention-getting jutsu serve a rather different purpose than subtle or insidious jutsu. The latter will probably tend to be trump cards, as well.
- Defensive (makes it harder for enemies to do longterm harm to you: dodging, armour, regen, etc.)
- At what stage does the defence kick in? Prevents you from being hit? Reduces harm immediately if you are hit? Reduces harm with a delay after being hit?
- Defence against what? Bludgeoning? Piercing? Slashing? Poison? Corrosion? Disease? Mental? Heat? Cold? An element? Elements in general? Chakra in general? Some combination?
- Mobility (lets you get to where you need to be: burrowing, flight, teleport, etc.)
- Medium: subterranean/aquatic/terrestrial/aerial
- Utility (miscellaneous category for other useful things: training jutsu, enhanced-senses, communication, medical, etc.)
- Is it a training jutsu or not?! Honestly, I feel that at this point, bonus XP takes priority over almost everything else.
The pangolins are a Proud Warrior Race TM and very culturally encouraged towards flashy destructive fighting styles. The condors, on the other hand, are fragile speedsters (from the little info we have), so we can probably expect more subtlety and precision. So that's a fairly good mix.
Finally, let's look at our characters, and how they're built.
- Hazou is fairly dangerous at close range. In the build he's shaping up for, he uses both quick actions per turn (one to sustain EA, the other to activate seals on his rings). Enemies will be protecting themselves against his taijutsu using either TM or nin/tai. Hazou is fairly well protected against physical damage (PTJ/EA combo) but relatively vulnerable to genjutsu (unless he spends an action on casting Living Roots). He could benefit from a long ranged attack, but that's something we could easily get from Leaf. Hazou does not have a lot of chakra to spend on techniques.
- Noburi's main advantage is his stupid amount of chakra. It's what's going to make it viable for him to use high-level GS and spam it repeatedly to lolnope the majority of attacks. For anyone else, this tactic would simply be too chakra-intensive to use. Noburi is still vulnerable to lightning/armour-piercers and genjutsu (being the only one of the three to lack an ESP jutsu that boosts awareness).
- Kei also uses both quick actions per turn. One to draw a kunai, the other to activate a seal. She will be spending the majority of her chakra on summoning, and whatever's left will likely be stretched thin between VS, boosting, and GS, so, like Hazou, she can't afford to spend lots of chakra on techniques. Using her AoE ranged artillery bombardment, enemies will be forced to spend actions to dodge with TM. However, Kei must use TM herself, since RW can't defend.
Suggested Techniques
Condor Training Jutsu
(Requires the user to have DEX and WIT 6. Maxes out at level 1. Requires meditation to cast. 1CP/hr)
The user takes -1d100 to DEX or WIT based skills. For each 10XP earned, the user gains 1XP which is placed in a fund that can only be used to raise DEX and WIT.
Pantorkrator's Rage Technique
(RES*2, WIT*2, COM*2, ?CP)
The user throws psychic backlash at genjutsu users trying to target them. When rolling Awareness against Genjutsu, the user may add a number of dice to their roll up to their PR level, paying 5CP per extra dice. If the user wins the contest, they deal a wound to the genjutsu caster equal to their success level.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Just a balance note is that this is considerably weaker than the pangolin training Jutsu. Has nothing equivalent to the reducing wound penalties. I would still vote for this Jutsu but would not be opposed to adding a little more to it
Well, yes that is true. But I suspect that if we added too much to it, then the QMs might declare that you can only use one training jutsu at a time, and then it would be almost useless to us.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If there's a case to be made for why armour techniques aren't overpowered in the Naruto setting, I'd be willing to hear it. Just bearing in mind that in canon there's exactly one technique which tanks wounds, and it's a forbidden technique used by Kakuzu.
I mean, technically, you can just wear armour.
Hashirama, Tobirama, Madara, and Hiruzen all did. As well as the historical Senju shown in an "explaining the lore of the setting" sequence.
But that probably wouldn't be as good as ninjutsu armour.
Edit: although I'm pretty sure that was laquered wood. So it wouldn't do much in ninja combat.
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- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think multiple ninja villages wear armour-like things to make their grunts visually distinct - the way Leaf has its green jackets. But I don't think we've ever seen conventional armour protect against anything. Samurai and bladed weapons, maybe?I mean, technically, you can just wear armour.
Hashirama, Tobirama, Madara, and Hiruzen all did. As well as the historical Senju shown in an "explaining the lore of the setting" sequence.
But that probably wouldn't be as good as ninjutsu armour.
Edit: although I'm pretty sure that was laquered wood. So it wouldn't do much in ninja combat.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well we have Kimimaro's Shikotsumyaku which let him make bone armor. Gaara also had sand armor. Kidōmaru could also make armor with his spider webs