The seals don't actually allow us to move them around yet, it'd be a new version we'd have to research. We don't know yet how difficult it would be, but the assumption has been that it's either going to be a minor change to the seal or hard enough to be instantly obvious.
Technically speaking there's no reason you couldn't move a force wall. The trick is that if the seals get even slightly out of alignment they will fail, so you need an extremely rigid frame. Given that Force Walls are 4m x 4m it needs to be a *big* frame, and making something both large enough, rigid enough, and light enough to be portable is highly non-trivial.

Oh sage, that can of worms. Don't remind me...
The best part about that thread: a moderator came in, explicitly called the OP (Jemnite) an asshole and acknowledged that the entire thread was trolling, did not infract Jemnite, and then infracted DaystarEld for snarking at some strawmen.
 
Technically speaking there's no reason you couldn't move a force wall. The trick is that if the seals get even slightly out of alignment they will fail, so you need an extremely rigid frame. Given that Force Walls are 4m x 4m it needs to be a *big* frame, and making something both large enough, rigid enough, and light enough to be portable is highly non-trivial.
I vote we do research into making Force Wall seals require a smaller frame.
 
Technically speaking there's no reason you couldn't move a force wall. The trick is that if the seals get even slightly out of alignment they will fail, so you need an extremely rigid frame. Given that Force Walls are 4m x 4m it needs to be a *big* frame, and making something both large enough, rigid enough, and light enough to be portable is highly non-trivial.
Oh sweet cheese and crackers you've doomed the world. We're going to accidentally a nuke (uh... to be clear here, I'm talking literal nuclear detonation, not the colloquial that means WMD) and it'll be your fault!

...That said this is DEFINITELY an avenue of research we need to go for.

e:
Or work on giving them a few centimetres wiggle-room for misalignment.
Or both. Both is good. Then we make the seals closer to the center without decreasing the force barriers' range, then put them on a time delay, then give them to Kei so she can throw invisible discus of death.
 
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Oh sweet cheese and crackers you've doomed the world. We're going to accidentally a nuke (uh... to be clear here, I'm talking literal nuclear detonation, not the colloquial that means WMD) and it'll be your fault!

...That said this is DEFINITELY an avenue of research we need to go for.

e:

Or both. Both is good. Then we make the seals closer to the center without decreasing the force barriers' range, then put them on a time delay, then give them to Kei so she can throw invisible discus of death.

Personally think that this research project is way beyond us. Mobile force walls are super obvious so probably has been tried a bunch in the past
 
Personally think that this research project is way beyond us. Mobile force walls are super obvious so probably has been tried a bunch in the past
They're already mobile-capable, it's just a matter of doing something useful with them.

e: Also, from what I understand, barrier techniques are not as commonly known.
 
I still want to make mobile air dome armor

just need to make an airdome version that only requires one seal that defines the center of the dome. Then if the seal is moved say 1 foot have the dome break. Once it breaks have the seal immediately reform a new one. Build an on/off switch with chakra repulsion or adhesion. Boom multiple granite walls to protect you. Makes Noburi even more OP since if mist is set up he can drain through air domes.
 
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@eaglejarl @OliWhail @Velorien

Does moving objects across the surface of force walls cause friction? What about 5SB'd surfaces?

...

What happens How many universes do you destroy if you cut a 5SB'd object with a force wall?
 
Said catacombs actually would be fun, because no one was unwillingly tortured in them.
As a sadist, thank you for the consideration of the word "unwillingly".
If you're a liability they send you on suicide missions. Like what we were (supposed to be).
Didn't Mari say that was fabricated? I seem to recall something along those lines.
The best part about that thread: a moderator came in, explicitly called the OP (Jemnite) an asshole and acknowledged that the entire thread was trolling, did not infract Jemnite, and then infracted DaystarEld for snarking at some strawmen.
That actually sounds pretty amusing. Would it be possible to get a link?
[](/lunalaugh)
How many universes do you destroy if you cut a 5SB'd object with a force wall?
Something something unstoppable force, immovable object, something something reference frame
 
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People can be kicked out of the Academy for various reasons, even in Mist. The dude Mari killed in the Liberator Arc was a Academy dropout, and I think there was a caravan with an ex-ninja.

Sure, because they're not fit as ninja. I don't think anyone is going to get a chance to refrain from trying in the first place.

The problem with attempting that is that it could lead to a large segment of the population resenting being pressganged into becoming soldiers while at the same time giving them punch-wizardry that would give them the capacity to cause a lot of problems for the government that's drafting them.

Huh, I wonder if we see any signs of a culture where loyalty is incredibly highly valued, the press ganging is framed in terms of nationalism, and those being pressganged are indoctrinated at an early age.


While there is a high demand for ninja, no sane government is going to want to be recruiting unwilling ninjas.

Sure, so you make them willing.

If you're a liability they send you on suicide missions. Like what we were (supposed to be).

Not always, sometimes you can still be a productive merchant or something, especially in the academy. Once you're an actual ninja though, suicide missions or executions are better since you want the threat of them to limit desertion.

Technically speaking there's no reason you couldn't move a force wall. The trick is that if the seals get even slightly out of alignment they will fail, so you need an extremely rigid frame. Given that Force Walls are 4m x 4m it needs to be a *big* frame, and making something both large enough, rigid enough, and light enough to be portable is highly non-trivial.

O_O

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Personally think that this research project is way beyond us. Mobile force walls are super obvious so probably has been tried a bunch in the past

One second, I need to draw some diagrams. BRB.
 
Also @Radvic (Apologies, haven't been following the discussion that closely.):

Did the above turn out not to be the case? Or is that how it actually works?
So far as I'm aware it's an open question which @eaglejarl @Velorien and @OliWhail haven't answered yet regarding what happens when you push on a force wall. If nothing happens when one pushes on a force wall, then @Jello_Raptor's idea works, though there may be not insubstantial engineering challenges to overcome, air might leak quickly, and I'm unsure how much force it would create. If something happens, then other exploits are likely fair game (specifically ones involving torque).

At least, that's my understanding of the situation.
 
So, I'm in a position where I know enough about Naruto to understand the setting, but not enough to know about any specific character.
We know that MfD is not canon, and we have no reason to believe that canon knowledge helps us in most situations. Also, Shikaku told Hazou that things in Leaf are not what they seem, which could also be a warning against canon knowledge from the QMs.

With that in mind, who is Danzo, and why are people assuming that what we are told isn't true? What if he was just an old ninja who forgot to do some maintenance?

How much do we actually know about Orochimaru? How do we know that the compound has catacombs? What if that's just an urban myth, and the agent was honestly trying to assuage our fears? How do we know that the Orochimaru connection to the compound is common knowledge, or that there is a connection at all?

Instead of automatically assuming that named characters or places are going to be the same or similar to canon, take a step back and ask, what if this character or situation is actually the opposite of canon. Can any of our assumptions be justified by our knowledge about MfD. Like, say, root. What if there is no root, and do we have enough knowledge to be able to tell one way or another?
 
So, I'm in a position where I know enough about Naruto to understand the setting, but not enough to know about any specific character.
We know that MfD is not canon, and we have no reason to believe that canon knowledge helps us in most situations. Also, Shikaku told Hazou that things in Leaf are not what they seem, which could also be a warning against canon knowledge from the QMs.

With that in mind, who is Danzo, and why are people assuming that what we are told isn't true? What if he was just an old ninja who forgot to do some maintenance?

How much do we actually know about Orochimaru? How do we know that the compound has catacombs? What if that's just an urban myth, and the agent was honestly trying to assuage our fears? How do we know that the Orochimaru connection to the compound is common knowledge, or that there is a connection at all?

Instead of automatically assuming that named characters or places are going to be the same or similar to canon, take a step back and ask, what if this character or situation is actually the opposite of canon. Can any of our assumptions be justified by our knowledge about MfD. Like, say, root. What if there is no root, and do we have enough knowledge to be able to tell one way or another?


I believe this, from all the way back in Chapter 23, is the solid info we have on Orochimaru:

"This doesn't make any sense," Jiraiya said quietly, almost to himself, as he paced back and forth across the main room of the hideout. "Orochimaru is the last person I'd expect to start a war – he finds disorder, or what he thinks of as disorder, to be utterly disgusting, to say nothing of how he feels about 'crude implements'. Besides, he's survived this long despite being an acknowledged S-class threat partly because he takes care not to draw any attention to himself. When the Liberator goes public, it'll be the equivalent of dancing the yosakoi on top of the Hokage Monument during the Heroes' Day assembly, butt-naked and with extra-loud clappers.

"But then again, how many other ninjutsu researchers who use immortal snake symbolism are there? And if it is him, what could push him into doing something so violently out of character?"

"Who is Orochimaru?" Noburi asked.

"Another of the Three," Akane told him. "He was also a hero of the Third Great Ninja War, and he was famous for being a biological research and sealcrafting prodigy. But he betrayed the village – our textbooks don't say how – and now he's one of our worst missing-nin."

"Do you know what he did?" Hazō asked Jiraiya, perhaps incautiously, but aware that this was a rare opportunity to get a real answer to a question that might turn out to be important later.

"He decided it was easier not to care about people," Jiraiya said heavily. He did not elaborate.
 

God that diagram took forever to make, and I added too many arrows. Basically, assuming negligible spring weight, the force from the compressed spring is D. So the force wall has to produce the equal and opposite force C.

In a normal world the acceleration of the entire setup would be C - D, and since C = D this would just stand still. But because we have bullshit ninja magic, D just vanishes into the aether. So C is unopposed and just accelerates the whole thing.

At least in space. On the ground, C has to be large enough to overcome gravity and friction.

(A and B were there so I could treat the spring as a separate element, but I realized they're stationary relative to each other and have to be equal, so all I'd be doing is finding the portion of the force that accelerates the spring separately. Which doesn't really matter.)

We might be able to get away with dropping the spring entirely, and using the tension in the crossbar as a spring, but this is easier to imagine since we're making that application of force explicit.

If this is hard to imagine then imagine the thing as made of Jello. you compress the spring against the force-wall, the spring expands and pushes out. The wave travels out through the frame until it pulls the seals forward. The force-wall then moves with the seals exerting whatever force it needs to to recompress the spring.

More rigid frames would just do this so fast it becomes a uniform pressure from the force wall on the entire system.

Also, force walls seem to last a long time so this might answer the Nara question on how to stick point defences up in the air.

They'd drift with wind, and we'd need to compensate for that somehow and have to find a way to keep them floating at the same height. But keeping them pointed up despite small shifts in position is trivial, few off center pads the press against the force wall more as the floating machine tilts in the direction of the offset and you get an automatic counter-rotation.

Edit: The height thing is actually doable too. If you have low-pressure air cavities pressing against the wall, then the higher you go (as air-pressure outside decreases) the less force they'd exert. Bias it with some of the springs and the thing will float at whatever height has some particular air pressure.

The horizontal movement thing is hard though, the best I've got is some beast of an IMU type setup that is way outside of our tech base.

Edit 2: Wait, we can just use cables that hold them over a particular point in the ground. :V It'd mean the setup would also have to hold the cables up, so you need springs under higher tension. Also you'd have to have cables tied down everywhere, messing up the skyline by adding too many sky-lines.
 
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Edit 2: Wait, we can just use cables that hold them over a particular point in the ground. :V It'd mean the setup would also have to hold the cables up, so you need springs under higher tension. Also you'd have to have cables tied down everywhere, messing up the skyline by adding too many sky-lines.

We need to give Hazō MechApt then, because this is sort of stuff that Hazō wouldn't be able to figure out. I believe it's only 72 XP to get to level 10?
 
We need to give Hazō MechApt then, because this is sort of stuff that Hazō wouldn't be able to figure out. I believe it's only 72 XP to get to level 10?

Err. you think going from "There is a floating thing that might drift away" to "hold it down with a cable" is beyond Hazou? a person who has very likely seen kites?

Unless kites don't exist in the elemental nations but that seems unlikely.

Edit; If you're talking about the base design. Well, that has literally one moving part.

The "keep it pointed up" and "buoyancy based altitude control" systems might be beyond Hazou, but cables would solve those problems too. With much less effort.
 
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Err. you think going from "There is a floating thing that might drift away" to "hold it down with a cable" is beyond Hazou? a person who has very likely seen kites?

Unless kites don't exist in the elemental nations but that seems unlikely.

I should have quoted the whole thing, but I cut it down to that.

But mostly, if we want to make mechanical device, we have to give Hazō's in-depth knowledge of mechanical devices.
 
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