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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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[X] Research Plan : Poor Man's Sky Squid

Work on building the mechanical systems needed to use force walls as reactionless thrusters and aerial platforms.

Base Design:



Build a frame around a force wall, as above.

Basically, assuming negligible spring weight, the force from the compressed spring is D. So the force wall has to produce the equal and opposite force C.

In a normal world the acceleration of the entire setup would be C - D, and since C = D this would just stand still. But because we have bullshit ninja magic, D just vanishes into the aether. So C is unopposed and just accelerates the whole thing.

At least in space. On the ground, C has to be large enough to overcome gravity and friction.

We might be able to get away with dropping the spring entirely, and using the tension in the crossbar as a spring, but this is easier to imagine since we're making that application of force explicit.

If this is hard to imagine then imagine the thing as made of Jello. you compress the spring against the force-wall, the spring expands and pushes out. The wave travels out through the frame until it pulls the seals forward. The force-wall then moves with the seals exerting whatever force it needs to to recompress the spring.

More rigid frames would just do this so fast it becomes a uniform pressure from the force wall on the entire system.

In practice Hazou would likely be better served by using tension in the crossbar of the frame over a spring. Just press the screw into the force-wall directly. You should be able to get enough force to have a design that clearly thrusts in a direction even if it's not enough to float.

A simple test is to hang one of these from a string so that the thrust vector points horizontally, it should swing around erratically or stay at an angle if there's any thrust being produced.

Oh and use multiple screws spread out over the platform so that you can balance it out manually to compensate for minor variations in manufacturing.

Vertical Stabilizers:



These are just lever arms arrayed around the thing in a circle,evenly spaced. Three is the minimum needed for this to work, four is probably the number we should aim for.

As in the photo above, when the system tilts to a side, the pad on that side will press into the force-wall harder as a counterbalance, and so create a net torque. The pressure produced even scales nicely with angle, so with a damper somewhere or a bit of tuning it shouldn't be an unstable control system.

Main problem here is if the angle of the platform tilts too much the mechanism stops working and the whole thing would spiral out of control.

The weights at the end of the lever arms should be movable up or down (another screw would be ideal) to control the force that these levers produce so we can calibrate it manually.

Altitude Control:




Add a low pressure cavity below the force wall, pressed against it. When you're low the air pressure is high, and the net force will push the platform up. When you're high, the net force will be downwards pushing you down to your target height.

Theoretically the set point of the screw and stuff should be so that the platform has neutral buoyancy, so that all the upward force is produced by the cavities. Then you make the air pressure in the cavity the same as the height you want to achieve. So that at that height everything will balance out.

In practice there's no goddamn way you'll get all of that right, which means you get the air pressure thing working as best you can, and then turn the base force (from the screw) to whatever level you need that makes the thing hover at the height you want. It'll take some manual tuning at first until you build a some tables of upward force at ground level vs. final resting height.

You can calibrate this with the screws, it's basically the same.

Location Stabilization: Use a cable. Tie one end to the platform and the other end to something on the ground.

Contingencies:
  • Never run a test with an untethered platform.
Final Notes: I expect this to mainly work fine, but the damn things will start flailing about and crashing if they tilt too much, or the wind gets too high, or someone decides to throw rocks at them.

Mainly this is a decent first pass at the idea to hand the Nara, to help accelerate their development of point defences. They'll have better seal-crafters than Hazou and more general expertise at building control systems and whatnot. Force walls seem to last a good long while, so if this works it should make defences easier to manage.

Also we could suggest something to the Nara where you combine the two systems. Use the 5SB most of the time, when that needs to be refreshed someone on the ground send their chakra up the cable (staple some chakra wire to it) to the platform. Swap to the force wall when that's being refilled and reset before turning the 5SB back on.

Not actually part of the proposal: Oh also, we should invent the stapler. I bet it'd get us a decent amount of goodwill from all the desk chuunin, and middle management.
 
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Cariyaga said:
We'd need some sort of stiff, flexile material for staplers; metal is probably a no-go? Not sure how hard staples are to make.
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By volume a kunai can make a shit-ton of staples, if we can do it efficiently I'd be surprised if it's a bad idea to make staplers an staples.

I mean, a kunai for the stapler, and another kunai every few months per bureaucra, for fewer lost papers and lowered day-to-day annoyance seems like a good deal to me.
 
1234qwerty said:
Some notes: force walls don't start flush from the seals that generate them; there's a small gap. Shouldn't be too much of a problem to engineer a frame that accounts for that. It's not like all the force that doesn't get transmitted to the wall would get magically transported to the few spots that are made of normal material, right? It would just require more pressure differential, like accounting for the spring's weight.
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Oh? There is?

That's a feature, not a bug, makes it so we don't have to work as hard to make sure the wall doesn't cut into the frame. The force wall cutting into the frame would mean force is transferred to the frame in both directions, negating the magic bullshit.

1234qwerty said:
Force walls last 12 hours. Not bad, but not ideal for city wide defenses.
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Ahh, so not a gigantic improvement then.

We should ask Jiraiya/Kagome if there's some way to manually recharge seals like this. Channel some chakra into them to extend their lifespan.
 
Jello_Raptor said:
We should ask Jiraiya/Kagome if there's some way to manually recharge seals like this. Channel some chakra into them to extend their lifespan.
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Considering the incredibly miniscule amount of chakra that seals use... maybe we could develop a sealing method to key into a barrel Noburi has placed somewhere?
 
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Yup, should still ask about the recharge thing first.

It's too obvious an idea for it to be possible and also not everywhere, but J and K might be able to tell us why it doesn't work.
 
1234qwerty said:
Oh, I see. Like the design in the altitude control diagram. Nice.

It's not obvious to me that cutting into the frame would completely negate the magic, but I'll take your word for it. Also, just making sure, but the force wall having a friction coefficient isn't a problem, right?
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I am not sure what you mean? I mean, once you get the magic ninja bullshit force out of the mobile immovable object, things work like you'd expect for an object with a force applied to it. So it's subject to air friction like normal.

1234qwerty said:
Recharging seals would be nice. Seals are pretty odd chakra structures in the first place, lasting for hours or months without 'evaporating.' What's up with that? If it ends up being important to preserve a person's chakra inside their body after death to resurrect them successfully, sealing maybe the path to doing that. Presumably, jinchurikii seals are self recharging(Orochimaru's cursed seals and the Hyuuga and Root ones, too).
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GOOD FUCKING POINT!

Of course there's got to be self recharging seals, and Jiraiya has almost certainly made them. He can tell us why they're not fucking everywhere.

+1 point to you.

1234qwerty said:
Not sure if staples are worth working on. What advantage do stapled papers have over scrolls? And since books exist, what advantage do staples have over binding papers with a spine or sewing? Eh, this may be a case where technique hacking a 'stapling jutsu' for secretaries to learn is better than trying to do it the technological way.
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Eh, I mostly mean it as something to do when bored.

The advantages are mostly speed, organization, and filing. It's a non-trivial part of making good document handling practices easy and workable in a low tech environment.

That and 3-ring binders will solve a huge number of headaches if they don't exist already.
 
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1234qwerty said:
Sorry. I'm failing at being clear. I meant 2 different questions. 1. If only half of the force wall were immune to force and both halves were inside the frame, would that prevent the device from functioning? 2. Does the force walls having a friction similar to glass somehow contradict them being immune to force?

For 1, I assume this question is analogous to cutting into the frame without losing it's airtight quality. For 2, I'm pretty sure immovable objects are not by definition frictionless, but not 100%. If they are, then it would indicate force walls aren't truly immovable. I know realize it's a contradiction to think that stacking MEW on a force wall would ever break it. Maybe negating larger forces instead makes force walls' durations expire faster?
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1) I can't think of a reason why that would fail. It would mean that you couldn't use my altitude control mechanism since that depends on being on the opposite side of the pressure that provides the main motive force, but otherwise the rest of it should be fine.

2) Oh they do? I mean, this design doesn't rely on the force walls being frictionless at all. In fact friction would make all of this a lot easier in practice. There'd be much less making sure things aren't slipping when they contact the wall.

Also I don't think immovable objects have to be frictionless. In order to be immovable object it has to be able to create an equal and opposite force for any force or torque applied to it. But you can cover it in rubber or wd-40 and it'd still be immovable since friction isn't a normal opposing a force or torque on the object, even if it does scale with it.

1234qwerty said:
I missed the clan compound discussion, but I also advocate for buying all 3. With the advances we're going to make, I expect the population of Konoha to rise dramatically, increasing the worth of land. If we plan on stopping scorch squads by centralizing all of the Land of Fire's population in Konoha, knowing what's coming is something we want to leverage.
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While I don't want to centralize, I do think we'll be making land here a lot more valuable in the medium-long term.

Oh another thing to introduce if they don't already exist, bicycles.
 
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