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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Adhoc vote count started by Sir Stompy on Dec 7, 2024 at 8:42 PM, finished with 148 posts and 22 votes.
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A contentious vote!

What's a bioseal or two between colleagues :)
 
[X] Action Plan: The Dawn's Demise


Folks, if Orochimaru could just bioseal up someone and mind control them perfectly, he would have done it to all the annoying politicians in Leaf that make so many whiny mouth noises when he tries to do his horrible science experiments.

Him installing a deadman switch in the kid is a minor comparative risk. If we fuck this up and lose, the remaining Akatsuki members are going to hang Hazou by his entrails while they slowly burn all of Leaf in front of his eyes.

If we don't fuck this up and win, and Oro really wants to kill us, then we are dead. The only thing we can do is convince him (a priori or otherwise) that this course of action would be very inconvenient for him.

Hazou literally shows up to this guy's doorstep about once a year to trade cool shit to him in exchange for some literal garbage he has lying around his office (money included in that), a handful of baubles, and what amounts to a mild workweek's worth of time from him.

We are literally Santa Claus as far as this guy is concerned, except instead of leaving cookies and milk for us in exchange for presents, he just has to ramble on about random shit while passing on every fourth or fifth conversational topic.

Does that mean he will work with us? Fuck no. Does that mean he's not going to work against us? Fuckkkkkk no!

But even if —especially if, I would argue— he installs a magic "Kill Hazou" button in the kid, I would argue he is less likely to use it to murder us immediately than in the counterfactual universe where he does not have this very convenient button.

He's a greedy Essie minmaxing ninja guy. He's going to wait until he gets coal for Sagemas before trying to murder Santa Claus.
 
Oh right, I'm seeing significant support for getting Oro's blood changing bioseal, predicated on Hazou getting his reserves enhanced.

Any of my voters object to this?
 
Sir Stompy said:
Oh right, I'm seeing significant support for getting Oro's blood changing bioseal, predicated on Hazou getting his reserves enhanced.

Any of my voters object to this?
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I don't think it's worth it unless we are already getting the CR enhancement - in which case we are already at Oro's mercy anyways so might as well.

I think having Cannai in play is orders of magnitude more important than the blood changing stuff. The former is a lot more worth the risk IMO
 
Emstar said:
[X] Action Plan: The Dawn's Demise


Folks, if Orochimaru could just bioseal up someone and mind control them perfectly, he would have done it to all the annoying politicians in Leaf that make so many whiny mouth noises when he tries to do his horrible science experiments.

Him installing a deadman switch in the kid is a minor comparative risk. If we fuck this up and lose, the remaining Akatsuki members are going to hang Hazou by his entrails while they slowly burn all of Leaf in front of his eyes.

If we don't fuck this up and win, and Oro really wants to kill us, then we are dead. The only thing we can do is convince him (a priori or otherwise) that this course of action would be very inconvenient for him.

Hazou literally shows up to this guy's doorstep about once a year to trade cool shit to him in exchange for some literal garbage he has lying around his office (money included in that), a handful of baubles, and what amounts to a mild workweek's worth of time from him.

We are literally Santa Claus as far as this guy is concerned, except instead of leaving cookies and milk for us in exchange for presents, he just has to ramble on about random shit while passing on every fourth or fifth conversational topic.

Does that mean he will work with us? Fuck no. Does that mean he's not going to work against us? Fuckkkkkk no!

But even if —especially if, I would argue— he installs a magic "Kill Hazou" button in the kid, I would argue he is less likely to use it to murder us immediately than in the counterfactual universe where he does not have this very convenient button.

He's a greedy Essie minmaxing ninja guy. He's going to wait until he gets coal for Sagemas before trying to murder Santa Claus.
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Hazou is a long-term risk to Oro (what if he fails a runic infusion?), and a threat to his power (he's the only person between Oro and a monopoly of one of the strongest essie tricks in setting)

But setting that aside, Stompy's plan makes the unwise choice to threaten the end civilization as a deadman, before submitting to a surgery that could give Oro an extreme amount of influence over us.

Oro thinks Hazou is a creative, talented, and erratic idiot who can't defend himself.
He'll feel much more secure with Hazou under his thumb or removed as a threat. Having runesmithing makes him a threat, and revealing that we have civilisation-ending weapons we sometimes use as a deadman switch means we're a threat that cannot be ignored.
 
@Sir Stompy Is there any chance you could add a little more detail on how to present a deadman's switch whose leaking would lead to Armageddon Initiative? A major concern I have with using EM Nuke knowledge as a deadman's switch is that it puts Orochimaru irrevocably against us, since us revealing we have world-ending WMDs indicates we are willing to create weapons that can credibly kill him and are willing to distribute that to the general population of (in Orochimaru's POV) absolute idiots. That's something he would want to kill us over, or at the least do a lot to ensure proliferation of it and future weapons never happens. Mostly in a way that does not end well for us.

Like, how are you envisioning the EM Nuke switch working, in the context of conversation with Orochimaru? It doesn't come up in your plan at all, and this feels like the sort of thing that really should be discussed.
 
Left-Hand Mutant said:
But setting that aside, Stompy's plan makes the unwise choice to threaten the end civilization as a deadman, before submitting to a surgery that could give Oro an extreme amount of influence over us.
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Unless I'm missing something...

I don't see a plan that goes in and says "Yes bioseals" but skips the trip on any deadman's switch stuff. I would vote for that just fine.

I don't see a plan (save Armageddon Initiative) that is also not just "How about we go nuke them ourselves?". I would also vote to do that.

I don't think theres much point in not asking the Snake guy for more chakra. Working with Oro but not maximizing success is a losing proposition IMO. We're likely to be very limited in terms of firepower here so literally anything we can stack on the scales will be worth its weight.

This fight is going to more or less be Team Uplift + Team Oro along with whoever we can personally whistle up from the Seventh Path. The over/under on getting major support from Leaf is not great by my perspective. Similarly, I'm hedging my bets that there will be some sort of rationalization presented that functionally prevents shadow clone army dogpile strats from being used effectively (whether that is basically "bullshit Itachi can do means this strategy is suicidal"x3, or some other wackiness, who knows).

I'm not willing to look at the tea leaves here and bet the farm on us not needing the chakra bioseals to summon Cannai.
 
I think we probably just get rid of the EM Deadman switch. It's not something we should ever pull, considering the risk of civilization ending.
 
[X] Action Plan: The Dawn's Demise But No EM Nukes
Word Count: <399 (desired)
Desired Duration: A few days
  • Sanity-check with the team.
  • Meet Orochimaru.
    • Send only Mari and Hazou, both as SCs. Avoid looking at potential seal elements.
      • Primes camp at the edge of SC range, under cover and concealment. Use SCSA/SSSA, Ninja Radar, etc.
      • Be ready to flee if things go south.
    • If the Medium heals en route, re-attempt to summon Cannai before meeting Orochimaru. Noburi provides immediate treatment.
      • Create the SC for meeting Orochimaru before the attempt.
  • Discuss the Riftwar:
    • Tone: cooperating on a mutually beneficial goal. Be concise. Don't extend the conversation unnecessarily.
    • Inform him about our capabilities: Air Leadening, Icarus, Force Dome, Iron Earth, RER1/2, Ninja Radar.
      • If he's disappointed, tell him many research avenues didn't pan out, and we prioritized protecting Leaf (per Naruto's orders).
      • Mention Rift Runes only if pressed. DON'T mention TRs.
    • Hazou and potentially Noburi's Clan Bosses agreed to be Summoned for this fight.
    • Noburi enables refilled SCs of S-Rankers/ejounin on our side. Like during the Dragonwar.
    • Suggested attack plan:
      1. Trap them inside a Force Dome. With Iron Earth to resist tunneling
      2. Open with a Multi-RER barrage under Air Leadener.
      3. Precision fire at slowed survivors via (now-calibrated/sighted) RERs.
      4. Mop up via S-rank SCs + Bosses.
    • Unsolved problems:
      • Hazou's most powerful offensive runes cannot be transported by storage or 7th Path. They must be shaped on-site.
        • Can we get 4+ hours within ~1 mile of their fortress?
        • Does Orochimaru have expanded storage seals, or a similar solution?
      • Hazou cannot produce substrate. For mass-producing runes, we'd need Orochimaru's assistance.
      • (If Cannai's summoning failed) Hazou doesn't have the reserves to summon Cannai.
        • Hazou suspects Orochimaru has a bioseal to increase chakra reserves. Ordinarily, Hazou wouldn't ask for the unearned power, but given the circumstances, would Orochimaru be willing to apply it to Hazou?
          • If it's permanent, we'd owe him a commensurate favor.
      • Our strongest offensive options require strategic amounts of chakra. We had expected Leaf to supply it.
        • Is there any reason not to involve Leaf? They provide two additional S-Rankers, several Summoners (potentially with Bosses), and chakra.
        • Be alert for his answer. Mari: attempt to determine whether he's deceiving us.
      • When does he plan to strike?
      • Does he have any idea which Akatsuki members are on-site? Numbers of other forces?
 
[X] Action Plan: The Dawn's Demise But No EM Nukes

Yes bioseals, sounds good to me
 
My main concern are the bioseals, and while our santiy checkers thought that Orochimaru might be inclined to kill Hazou, they were also pretty clear in that they weren't certain about their ability to model his behavior. So the deadman's switch might not be necessary, even if it's the "smart thing" to do.

Eh, I'll think about it. I have time.
 
RandomOTP said:
My main concern are the bioseals, and while our santiy checkers thought that Orochimaru might be inclined to kill Hazou, they were also pretty clear in that they weren't certain about their ability to model his behavior. So the deadman's switch might not be necessary, even if it's the "smart thing" to do.

Eh, I'll think about it. I have time.
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7 hours and change, yes.
 
faflec said:
Like, how are you envisioning the EM Nuke switch working, in the context of conversation with Orochimaru? It doesn't come up in your plan at all, and this feels like the sort of thing that really should be discussed
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We don't bring it up unless Orochimaru threatens us. If he acts aggressive we tell him to knock it off or I'll shoot. I can put a line in there specifying this.
 
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