We're trying to convince the Pangolins to release this guy to Hazou's custody. That means we gotta argue with them and not the rest of the delegates right? How are we going to get custody except from the Pangolins?
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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
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- He/Him
That's true. I guess I meant more about the injustice of the bonds but I don't think either of you were really supportive of that aspect anyways.
- Location
- Yes.
That's a goal, but not a win condition. Our primary win condition is getting the other Clans to still believe Hazou cares about the Condors. Our secondary win condition is keeping the Condor alive.
I don't think the injustice of the bonds is a hard sell to the rest of the Clans. They're all (probably?) horrified at what the Pangolins are doing to the Condors.
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Well, the ones we care about are (mainly the Rats, who apparently are widely looked up to)
- Location
- Yes.
IMO Hazou's primary goal (getting the Clans to believe Hazou cares) can be best served by making an obvious, immediate, and visible effort to save that Condor's life. Not necessarily one that would work, but one that would be clear, even on serious examination, that we care and we are trying.
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First round of updates.
@Sir Stompy @faflec I hope this is more to your liking. I'm not uh, exactly sure what we were intending to do with the Condor afterwards? I have down to have them go to Arachnid since Enma wants to move them to Archaeopteryx but that was just cuz I didn't have any better ideas. I think "Go rejoin Conjura" may get us lambasted but maybe it's inflammatory enough to impress everyone else at the expense of making the Pangolins hate us even more. Even though the Condor can obviously just go wherever they want afterwards I think what we virtue signal here does matter.
- Location
- Yes.
@Shrooms My revised idea for your confrontation. Please note that departs significantly from yours.
- Confrontation:
- Go over to the fallen Bonds, and examine them loudly.
- No cuts or damage on them. They were tied loosely enough to enable an escape.
- Hazou cannot tell which is worse: the idea that the Bonds were tied loosely due to incompetence or malice. Or perhaps malicious indifference?
- Hazou speculates on how many Condors have been harmed because the Pangolins refuse to properly do their self-appointed duty.
- Regardless, this execution is a clear attempt to cover up poor Pangolin discipline.
- It is clear that the Pangolins here are not taking their own duties seriously in this regard.
- Hazou insists on a separate authority to handle oversight over the Condors since the Taxiarchos clearly is not doing so properly.
- Kei is the Pangolin Summoner, and is an authority under only Pantsa of the Adamant Scales.
- Clearly she should handle this...clearly difficult duty.
- Abuse Kei's status as an extralegal agent here.
- Go over to the fallen Bonds, and examine them loudly.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Velorien already told us Hazou doesn't know about this, and it kinda seems like this whole strategy hinges on it...
I can still add in physically examining the bonds and such
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I do think that "go rejoin Conjura" would be too inflammatory for our goals here, because as far as the Pangolins are concerned that's basically like saying "go join Akatsuki". We may not be in their direct chain of command so as to make the statement treason, but it's openly saying that we actively oppose the current administration and are working towards its downfall, which imo cuts our prospects at the Conclave very short.
There are a couple other snags I've seen:
- This is a Condor who hates Hazou enough to throw away his life for a chance to kill him. Even if they are released into our custody, they will still likely hate us and everything we stand for and generally not cooperate with us.
- "Go fly to Arachnid" seems to me to be a death sentence on paper. One lone Condor flying through multiple foreign territories does not sound like something done casually.
- (I could be wrong, flight is OP and Condors made it to Archaeopteryx before, but that was a proper trained squad instead of one rando.)
- Of course, people will be watching what we do with them after they're released into our care, and see that "Go fly to Arachnid" is nothing more than setting them free to go join Conjura. It's not openly saying we're telling them to go join Akatsuki, but it leaves us with only a fig leaf defense against that accusation.
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- He/Him
I did wonder about what we're supposed to do if we release them and they just... immediately try to kill Hazou again lmao. Would be pretty hard to spin that one
Hmm... Could tell them to stop in Dog first? (Obviously they probably aren't going to actually do anything we ask the minute they're home free but it's a more plausible demand.)
Well, Hazou did start the chapter out going around and saying how the Western Clans really admire Conjura so maybe.....that's fine? And it'll impress all the people we're hoping to impress
I feel like we could credibly have Kei and/or Noburi bring up that time we sentenced Haru to a fate worse than death as a way of implying that we aren't taking it easy on him.
- Location
- Yes.
I mean, the strategy mostly hinges on abusing Kei's status as someone directly under Pantsa's authority, and the extralegal agent thing can just be removed or substituted. Kei, and not Hazou, could easily step in once Hazou introduces the idea of setting up Kei in charge of the situation here.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I would say it's situational, and depends on the approach. Being obsequious and irritating to get them to punch you could be more Rapport, finding their insecurities and exploiting them could be Empathy, challenging their honor could be Presence. I would pick on the fly, depending primarily on the way that the scene is playing out (and secondarily on the content of the plan).
A jōnin never reveals her secrets.
Telescope proposal TBD -- likely Shino would have provided you with some reference lenses so you could learn how to make them better, under the condition that you don't undercut the Aburame's existing deal with the Tower. Instead, once you learned how to make telescopes, you would join the Aburame's deal as a supplier and the Aburame would take a small cut of the profits in exchange for having taught you how to make the lenses in the first place.
Mine status to be clarified in an upcoming update.
The local representative of the Ministry of Doctrine is nominally responsible for ceremonially tying the Bonds (and untying them once the condor has proven their loyalty and is raised to the ranks of the Elite). However, the bonds may need to be removed and retied occasionally -- practically, this is done by whichever pangolin is closest (e.g. if an overseer sees that the Bonds look too loose on a condor, they may order a random soldier to retie them).
Eighteen points gets the pole.
Hazō has refreshed 1 FP, yes. Will add later.
Good point on the Conclave FP spending. I'm inclined to just tie it into the same pool as his normal FP for simplicity's sake, but that probably won't work. Let's say that Hazō has 4 FP to spend in the Conclave, and will gain 1 per update and 1 per conflict (if he ends up above 4 at the end of the Conclave mini-arc, we'll credit it to his sheet).
- Location
- Europe
It doesn't seem it's hard to escape those ropes, if random Condor#64734 can do it. So the Pangolin can just argue that a Condor that removes the Bonds willingly if they are loose is simply not ready to be part of civilization. A loyal Condor would have informed a Pangolin officer to correct them after all, not drop them to attack someone.
And the offense for fighting and attacking Hazou is just three points. Next they are giving him 30 points for "attacking a foreign dignitary".
If the end goal is showing that Hazou wants to help the Condors, then I am unsure if the other clans will all interpret this as Hazou trying to be helpful rather thanjust being aggressiv. From the outsider perspective this can easily be seen him trying to humiliate the Condors and then starting beef with the Pangolin when given the chance.
And nobody wants an incompetent ally, so just signaling intent while looking dumb isn't that ideal for us.
We should probably play the whole situation down with something along the lines of: "Of course a Condor would try to kill me".
What is that supposed to do? Because the answer is obvious and Hazou's internal monolouge acknowledges that they are reserved for Condors that aren't loyal/ready:
That would maybe work for our first agreement that gave us a shit Wind jutsu and a fat Pangolin. But our second agreement was this:
The excuse doesn't work with that, we only supplied them for three months. Not exactly a long time and Kei just cut the deal, there was not even some form of new agreement.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I can only find the two watercolour painting links being broken. I've replaced those in the info post, and contacted the original artist to ask them to replace the links in theirs. What else isn't loading for you?@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
I note, sadly, that a lot of the imgur links to art posted in thread over the years are now no longer available, so a lot of the linked art in the info post and in the Media tabs are not showing up.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Honestly, I could see Mari either understating how much chakra she needs (or accepting a 5% free overcharge) to keep her chakra capacity secret.
And if Noburi is able to see through that via his bloodline then Mari is social spec enough (and knows Noburi's levers well enough) to secure his silence against anything Hazō might think to try while also preventing any loss in Noburi's goodwill.
And 1 per Consequence of course!
- Location
- Yes.
Kinda-sorta fork of Shrooms' plan.
[x] [Conclave] Malicious Indifference
Word Count: ???
[x] [Conclave] Malicious Indifference
Word Count: ???
- General approach
- Move quickly; we need to act before Confute leaves.
- Still try to communicate plan with Kei/Noburi in handsign as we act. We trust them to pick up the idea and speak up .
- Don't leave room for interjections. We want to maintain control of the narrative.
- Where appropriate, if trio signs consensus agreement, have the trio try to rope the crowd into supporting their claims.
- Move quickly; we need to act before Confute leaves.
- Confrontation:
- Go over to the fallen Bonds, and examine them loudly.
- No cuts or damage on them. They were tied loosely enough to enable an escape.
- We cannot tell which is worse: the idea that the Bonds were tied loosely due to incompetence, or malice. Or perhaps malicious indifference?
- Speculate on how many Condors have been harmed because the Pangolins refuse to properly do their self-appointed duty.
- Regardless, this execution is a clear cover-up.
- It is clear that the Pangolins here are not taking their own duties seriously in this regard.
- Insist on a separate authority to handle oversight over the Condors since Pankratos clearly is not doing so properly.
- Kei is the Pangolin Summoner, and is an authority under only Pantsaa in the Seventh Path.
- Clearly she should handle this duty.
- If things devolve, one of us claims mortal insult and demands a duel to win control over the Condors here.
- Win quickly and efficiently.
- Use Earbusters, activating Banshee slayers before the fight.
- Don't use MARS, but manually activate a banshee, then throw goo bombs. Manually activate additional debuffs as needed.
- Go over to the fallen Bonds, and examine them loudly.
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Why, exactly, is chuunish Hazou demanding to duel people? This is a horrible idea. We are closer to a genin than a jounin in terms of combat stats, because no one ever bothers to vote for raising them in the perennial chase of Sealing, Resolve and Earthshaping, none of which have a direct combat application.
None of our combat jutsu are trained much if at all. Our Taijutsu, Athletics, Physique and especially Alertness are all inadequate, which is to say low for even a chuunin! Which, even if we counted as one in combat (and we don't!) would still be wildly inadequate a power level to make demands like that in front of possibly elite Pangolin warriors. There is likely at least one jounin equivalent within their number, if not more.
We nearly died to a bunch of random Hyenas that were mostly low chuunin and genin. We actually would have died, despite being able to unsummon in a blink, had we not been saved by a dog who got killed in our stead. And people want to demand a duel with a possible jounin?
...I don't understand how Hazou survived this long in this quest, or is it simply that people lighthoused for years on end and don't realize that combat is dangerous, and that Hazou's combat skills have basically not whatsoever improved for years in the story now? Yes, Hazou has a few seals, but he could still lose to a good combat specialist genin with average luck on the dice!
We have :
33 Alertness (Mid Genin)
37 Athletics (High Genin)
35 Physique (High Genin)
40 Taijutsu (Low Chuunin)
Our Calligraphy is higher than any of our combat stats.
Our Resolve is 20 higher than our Calligraphy.
Our Sealing is 34 higher than our Calligraphy.
If we are unlucky, we could end up fighting with someone whose average combat stats are akin to our Resolve, and end up a splatter on the floor in one round (and even if we don't get killed... literally accidentally, because people assume us to be much stronger than we are, that would be the end of any conclave ambitions and reputation).
@faflec Your plan looks good overall, but please do not demand combat, especially not as Hazou. It could have disastrous consequences.
None of our combat jutsu are trained much if at all. Our Taijutsu, Athletics, Physique and especially Alertness are all inadequate, which is to say low for even a chuunin! Which, even if we counted as one in combat (and we don't!) would still be wildly inadequate a power level to make demands like that in front of possibly elite Pangolin warriors. There is likely at least one jounin equivalent within their number, if not more.
We nearly died to a bunch of random Hyenas that were mostly low chuunin and genin. We actually would have died, despite being able to unsummon in a blink, had we not been saved by a dog who got killed in our stead. And people want to demand a duel with a possible jounin?
...I don't understand how Hazou survived this long in this quest, or is it simply that people lighthoused for years on end and don't realize that combat is dangerous, and that Hazou's combat skills have basically not whatsoever improved for years in the story now? Yes, Hazou has a few seals, but he could still lose to a good combat specialist genin with average luck on the dice!
We have :
33 Alertness (Mid Genin)
37 Athletics (High Genin)
35 Physique (High Genin)
40 Taijutsu (Low Chuunin)
Our Calligraphy is higher than any of our combat stats.
Our Resolve is 20 higher than our Calligraphy.
Our Sealing is 34 higher than our Calligraphy.
If we are unlucky, we could end up fighting with someone whose average combat stats are akin to our Resolve, and end up a splatter on the floor in one round (and even if we don't get killed... literally accidentally, because people assume us to be much stronger than we are, that would be the end of any conclave ambitions and reputation).
@faflec Your plan looks good overall, but please do not demand combat, especially not as Hazou. It could have disastrous consequences.
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- Location
- Yes.
Our goal isn't to win the duel; it's to virtue signal hard enough to the other Clans that we give a shit.
Also, Hazou doesn't necessarily have to be the one to duel, though I should probably change that to be more clear...
- Location
- Europe
[x] [Conclave] Malicious Indifference
Are we trying to give Kei control? Because I don't think a foreigner can just take control of them.
As the Dog Summoner, who also accuses a high ranking Pangolin, we probably have to fight ourselves.
And while we are trying to virtue signal to the pacifist Rat clan that we don't like slavery, we signal that we use whatever means we have to start a fight.
If we win we are at least considered a competent strong ally.
If we lose the fight, we will likely lose the respect of a bunch of clans.
Are we trying to give Kei control? Because I don't think a foreigner can just take control of them.
As the Dog Summoner, who also accuses a high ranking Pangolin, we probably have to fight ourselves.
And while we are trying to virtue signal to the pacifist Rat clan that we don't like slavery, we signal that we use whatever means we have to start a fight.
If we win we are at least considered a competent strong ally.
If we lose the fight, we will likely lose the respect of a bunch of clans.
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- He/Him
It seems like it hinges on Kei having authority that she doesn't (or rather, that we don't know she has.)