Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Shrooms · May 23, 2023

Left-Hand Mutant said:
I think @Shrooms says we can activate a bunch of debuffs and a TN60 goo bomb on our first turn, and that the pangolin can't substitute out, so it's an auto-win unless they can make TN60 while debuffed(unlikely) or one-shot us(something enemy Jounin have failed to do).

If we're not using MARS (which we want to remain a secret weapon) then we will need to activate debuffs one at a time. That probably means only activating one debuff per round so we can save a Supplemental Action to use Substitution on our dodge. But yes, as Pangolins don't have Substitute, they cannot use it on their dodge. Of course, maybe they'll have something else. The Hyenas didn't seem to, but others might.

If they don't have any kind of reflexive Athletics-boosting jutsu, the pangolin will need to make an Athletics roll of over 65 every single round. Hazou, meanwhile, has a dodge of 40 + 5 (boost) + 5 or 6 (Kagome's rocket boots bonus) + 10 (Substitution) - 1 (PCJ) = 59 or 60, though only for the first round. After R1 it will only be 54 until PCJ breaks, where it becomes 55.

To be clear I'm not saying Hazou 100% wins this fight, we don't know how strong the opponent will be. But he has pretty good odds imo, and as faflec and I have pointed out a few times now, we don't actually need to win, we just need to show that Hazou tried really hard to save the Condor. Winning would be nice of course, though.

Left-Hand Mutant said:
participating in [Orochimaru's] work gave us our 11th point, I think

Actually, that didn't give us a TYS. He did give us our 6th TYS point when he Aura'd Hazou though

Left-Hand Mutant said:
it's unclear to me if TYS also resists intimidate, or how Forged in Fire interacts with this

I did not know this until recently as the rules don't say it, but evidently yes, you may use TYS points on Resolve specifically when defending yourself against Intimidation, unless you have Forged in Fire, in which you do not get that benefit.

Left-Hand Mutant said:
@acidshill you've mentioned timeskips repeatedly. How would that play out? What would you want to cover before entering the timeskip, what would you like to skip over, and how long would you want it to be?
Please explain/pitch it to me.

Not acidshill, but for me, I would like to see this Hidan plotline play out at the very least. That's what I'm most interested at this point. In addition to that, I'd like to get Mareo to Leaf. Besides that, most of what people seem to want to do is work on necromancy/the Great Seal, which means just doing a bunch of research, which is quite skippable to me. I'd probably skip a month minimum, preferably 3 months.

Hopefully during that time we accumulate some extra social xp from Asuma's tutelage. I'd also be down to teach Ino Summoning, and maybe arrange for Kei to teach Mari Summoning (making Kei Mari's sensei for once would be really entertaining I think.)

cog-nito said:
Even then, a resolve of 70 would not be enough to protect us from either Oro's intimidation

ContextBot said:
Oro should be way higher.

Resolve 77 (which is personally my preferred stopping point for FOOM rather than 70 which isn't a proper FOOM step anyways) should keep up with Oro's Intimidation on its own, but even if it doesn't, each invoke is a +8. We can probably also nab some social stunts by then. We should be essentially immune to Intimidation.

faflec · May 23, 2023

Shrooms said:
I just went with it bc it's the biggest debuff. Pang peppers are ~5 and flash likely less than 5 based on what Paper said for that writeup I did. Good point on specifying which kind to use though. @faflec you may also want to specify Earbusters/activating Banshee slayers before the fight

Forgot about this, but changed.

faflec said:
Kinda-sorta fork of Shrooms' plan.

[x] [Conclave] Malicious Indifference
Word Count: ???

General approach

Move quickly; we need to act before Confute leaves.

Still try to communicate plan with Kei/Noburi in handsign as we act. We trust them to pick up the idea and speak up .

Don't leave room for interjections. We want to maintain control of the narrative.

Where appropriate, if trio signs consensus agreement, have the trio try to rope the crowd into supporting their claims.

Confrontation:

Go over to the fallen Bonds, and examine them loudly.

No cuts or damage on them. They were tied loosely enough to enable an escape.

We cannot tell which is worse: the idea that the Bonds were tied loosely due to incompetence, or malice. Or perhaps malicious indifference?

Speculate on how many Condors have been harmed because the Pangolins refuse to properly do their self-appointed duty.

Regardless, this execution is a clear cover-up.

It is clear that the Pangolins here are not taking their own duties seriously in this regard.

Insist on a separate authority to handle oversight over the Condors since Pankratos clearly is not doing so properly.

Kei is the Pangolin Summoner, and is an authority under only Pantsaa in the Seventh Path.

Clearly she should handle this duty.

If things devolve, one of us claims mortal insult and demands a duel to win control over the Condors here.

Win quickly and efficiently.

Use Earbusters, activating Banshee slayers before the fight.

Don't use MARS, but manually activate a banshee, then throw goo bombs. Manually activate additional debuffs as needed.

RandomOTP · May 23, 2023

Left-Hand Mutant said:
RE: Orochimaru's intimidate: Hazo has 12 TYS points. Oro probably has at least as many(participating in his work gave us our 11th point, I think). that's at least a +12 to intimidate. it's unclear to me if TYS also resists intimidate, or how Forged in Fire interacts with this.

Intimidation is a social attack stat. You're trying to scare someone into doing what you want.

TYS adds to your Intimidation stat by default (Forged in Fire moves the bonus to other social stats, like Rapport and Empathy).

The stat that allows you to defend against Intimidation is your Resolve stat. Resolve is your mental fortitude, your mental health bar. Resolve is what allows you to steel your spine, plant your feet, and say "no" to someone who is trying to intimidate you.

Forged in Fire doesn't really touch Hazou's Resolve stat (and thus isn't really relevant to this situation) but Hazou's Resolve Stat is high enough on its own, because Resolve is also what allows us our Shadow Clone Training Technique (FOOM).

Orochimaru's Intimidation score is crazy high, because he's able to successfully intimidate Hazou, despite Hazou's Resolve being as high as it is.

Now, it could be that Orochimaru's raw Intimidation stat is higher than 60 (or the dice just favored him), but I suspect that Orochimaru has a stunt that boosts his Intimidation stat by a large amount.

Shrooms · May 23, 2023

RandomOTP said:
I suspect that Orochimaru has a stunt that boosts his Intimidation stat by a large amount.

~~Yeah, it's called TYS: 20~~

Crunbum · May 23, 2023

Left-Hand Mutant said:
I'd also like it if we can solve this without a fight, but in a fight our odds of winning sound pretty good to me. Did I miss something?

Hazou's Alertness is 33. This means any chuunin Pangolin is going before him just like all the Hyenas were going before him, as he was last in the turn order and some of them were genin iirc. What this means is the Pangolin gets a free cheap shot. Hazou's Athletics are 40 with Iron Nerve bonus. Yes, then there are the dice and Aspects etc, but we can expect the enemy to have them too and basically cancel out in the first round.

Example Opponent that we are provoking

Preface : Let us assume the upper bound for the power level of the combatant we could realistically face - a Capstone Skill Level 60 Pangolin with a seventh path copy of a solid jutsu like Water Dragon Bullet as said capstone. This would make them a weak Special Jounin or an elite chuunin depending on the rest of their combat stats. Of course we could also choose a melee specialist - after all Pangolins have Weapons : 2 innately from their claws, but I want to keep the modifiers simple, and ninjutsu tends to be weaker than MW / Taijutsu at fighting single targets regardless, so killing one with it in one round should only be easier, not harder.

Water Dragon Bullet hits AB times, or seven in this case.

Hit 1 :
Pangolin (WDB) : 60 + 7 (Jutsu AB) = 67 + ?? (dice)
Hazou (Athletics) : 40 + 5 (Boost) + 10 (Substitution 20) = 55 + ?? (dice)
Hazou takes 4 Stress, leaving him with a Mild and 2/3 Stress Track. He also spent a Supplemental.

Hit 2 :
Pangolin (WDB) : 60 + 7 (Jutsu AB) = 67 + ?? (dice)
Hazou (Athletics) : 40 + 5 (Boost) + 10 (Substitution 20) - 5 (Mild Consequence) = 50
Hazou takes 6 Stress, leaving him with a Mild, Medium and a Severe and 1/3 Stress Track. He is now out of Supplementals.

Hit 3 :
Pangolin (WDB) : 60 + 7 (Jutsu AB = 67 + ?? (dice)
Hazou (Athletics) : 40 + 5 (Boost) + 10 (Substitution 20) - 5 (Mild) - 5 (Medium) - 5 (Severe) = 40
Hazou takes 9 Stress, leaving him at 10/3 Stress Track with no more Consequences to soak for. Hazou dies.

Hit 4 :
Pangolin (WDB) : ....
Hazou (Dead) : ...

Hit 5 :
Pangolin (WDB) : ....
Hazou (Dead) : ...
Hit 6 :
Pangolin (WDB) : ....
Hazou (Dead) : ...

Hit 7 :
Pangolin (WDB) : ....
Hazou (Dead) : ...

His round has not yet began so he cannot unsummon. And he never will because there are Five Dragons left to go.
Hazou dies to massive overkill on the 3rd of the 7 dragons of the SJ tier jutsu. Or the 2nd even, with slightly below average dice rolls.

This was just a Skill Level 60 combatant casually killing Hazou with 30% of his jutsu - he could kill 2 more Hazous with his one turn, and seriously injure another. I hope this demonstrates just how horribly outclassed Hazou is in a serious 1v1 fight against a combat Special Jounin and why his seals and whatnot do not matter one bit in such an encounter.

Do. Not. Take. Any. Duels. Before. We. Stop. Being. A. Genin. In. Combat.

Oh and by the way, Team Uplift could have been playing around at this power level by now if we didn't focus on skills with zero combat utility like we did. Heck, Akane was almost there already despite her long FOOM detours and Fire flavor skill wasted XP. At least if she didn't spend her first turn of combat casting Flame Aura, which is a terrible idea.

Shrooms · May 23, 2023

Paperclipped said:
Leaf's last carved-seal expert died in the Collapse with no living apprentices, and Fumi's biosealing knowledge is minimal.

@eaglejarl @Velorien Does Hazou think he could spend his own research time and reverse engineer this carved-seal style or does he think it's impossible without a teacher?

Also, does Hazou know or at least speculate that Orochimaru would know this style?

Kylinger · May 23, 2023

Crunbum said:
Yes, then there are the dice and Aspects etc, but we can expect the enemy to have them too and basically cancel out in the first round.

Buffing jutsu is harder than buffing Taijutsu/RW, it's why WDB, as a very powerful jutsu, has an inherent buff on it's own built in. But this is an alright, though very pessimistic, assumption.

Crunbum said:
Water Dragon Bullet hits AB times, or seven in this case
...
And he never will because there are Five Dragons left to go

Da Rules said:
Once the dragon hits a target, subsequent instances of that target are ignored.

Crunbum said:
Hazo can reduce the Stress by 3.33 (to 4) by using Substitution 20 for a +10 bonus, burning one of his two Supplementals.

This would pop PCJ and fill up his stress track, but leave him with no consequence.

Crunbum · May 23, 2023

Kylinger said:
Buffing jutsu is harder than buffing Taijutsu/RW, it's why WDB, as a very powerful jutsu, has an inherent buff on it's own built in.

This would pop PCJ and fill up his stress track, but leave him with no consequence.

Oh, indeed, WDB does have that clause apparently. Probably not the right jutsu for the job then. Still, it could inflict 28 Stress to 7 copies of Hazou without any Consequences that are burning their Supplementals to avoid it with Substitution. It is not hard to come to the conclusion that a specialized single target jutsu would destroy him quite easily. Let us use another jutsu we know about, then.

Vacuum Energy Ball has no such target limits and would do the exact same thing I outlined in the post above. Cast at level 60 it would have an effect 3 so hits for 63, with weapons 7, while being armor piercing, ignoring the 1 armor from PCJ, which still imposes its Athletics penalty. 63 - 52 (Hazou with Substitution, Chakra Boost, PCJ and no Consequences) on an average roll, hence ~11 Stress, forcing Hazou to soak for a Mild, Medium and Severe immediately (-9 in total) with 2/3 Stress left over in the track, and the opponent then has 2 Supplementals to finish the job and deal the last 2 Stress while Hazou has -15 to all his checks (assuming AB 5 on the skill like Athletics). On a bad roll or 65+ VEB Skill, Hazou dies outright.

Or, a Pangolin with a Shadow Clone esque jutsu could just make as few as 2 copies of itself on round 1 and pummel Hazou to death before he gets to move with their Weapon : 2 claws. Maybe 3 to be absolutely certain. Yes, I'm listing good jutsu here, but its not like people learn the bad ones. Heck, Daizen (the chuunin cultist Hazou killed with extreme luck) had jutsu that could still oneshot current Hazou, and he was 6k XP or so. And he was just a new chuunin. We never know what kind of techniques we would end up facing from a possible SJ warrior of a militaristic culture.

ProperAttorney · May 23, 2023

Asked in the Discord, was recommended to post here as well.
@Paperclipped If you've a moment, would Hazo think any of the following would lower the TN/complexity of a seal, and if they could be combined?
Making the seal have multiple elements.
Making the seal effect end if moved.
Making the seal effect "load" before taking place.
Making the seal effect end if Chakra is used nearby.
Any other ideas he may have 😅

Kylinger · May 23, 2023

Crunbum said:
From jutsu we know about, Vacuum Energy Ball has no such target limits and would do the exact same thing I outlined in the post above.

eaglejarl said:
The user summons a swirling ball of wind around a core of vacuum, and throws it at an enemy.

Ignores half of physical armor. The rare Armor: Energy (Wind) is fully effective.

That jutsu is doesn't attack multiple times, it has a weapons rating that scales. It would cause a mild consequence, since it rolls seven lower but has weapons:3 at that level.

Crunbum said:
Or, a Pangolin with a Shadow Clone esque jutsu could just make as few as 2 copies of itself on round 1 and pummel Hazou to death before he gets to move with their Weapon : 2 claws.

Hilariously, SC act at the bottom of initiative so *all* of them would get caught in the goo bomb should it go that route. The pangolin would have the experience of getting all gooed up three times simultaneously.

Casting something like a level 30 flame aura however, which buffs taijutsu and athletics? That'd doom Hazo.
Maybe they'd open up with a level 30 PEA, and get gooed even more easily.

Crunbum · May 23, 2023

Kylinger said:
That jutsu is doesn't attack multiple times, it has a weapons rating that scales. It would cause a mild consequence, since it rolls seven lower but has weapons:3 at that level.

Not the case as seen below. Cast at level 60 it is Effect 3 (so 63 roll) and Weapons : Effect (so Weapons 7).
This is doing 11 Stress to Hazou on an average roll, immediately putting him at a Mild, Medium and Severe and 2/3 Stress Track, so 2 Stress away from Death. Kills Hazou on -6 dice or +0 on level 66. It is also ranged so the Pangolin can just, idk, open up with Vacuum Stepping 2 Zones away, castting Vaccum Energy Ball, kill Hazou, and still having a Supplemental left for its own safety / a buff. Pretty cautious an opening to make imo.

Vacuum Energy Ball

Effect	1 to (floor(½ AB))
Weapons	Effect

Kylinger · May 23, 2023

Crunbum said:
Cast at level 60 it would have an effect 3 so hits for 63, with weapons 7,

Da Rules said:
Effect: 1 to (floor(½ AB))
Weapons Effect

At level 60, that would be have effect 3. It's weapon rating is equal to effect, which is 3. Not seven.
The jutsu even has a chart premade to make this easier.

Effect ladder:

Levels 1-29: 1

Levels 30-49: 2

Levels 50-69: 3

Levels 70-89: 4

Crunbum said:
Cast at level 60 it is Effect 3 (so 63 roll)

...Why do you think at level 60 it rolls 63? Jutsu do not by default get an effect bonus to the roll.
At level 60 it
- rolls 60,
- has Effect weapons (which is three, this jutsu has non-standard effect scaling),
- ignores half of physical armor.

Crunbum · May 23, 2023

Kylinger said:
At level 60, that would be have effect 3. It's weapon rating is equal to effect, which is 3. Not seven.
The jutsu even has a chart premade to make this easier.

...Why do you think at level 60 it rolls 63? Jutsu do not by default get an effect bonus to the roll.
At level 60 it
- rolls 60,
- has Effect weapons (which is three, this jutsu has non-standard effect scaling),
- ignores half of physical armor.

Okay derp, yes you are right. I read it as Weapons : AB, for some reason.
I don't know... something Rasengan-esque? That would work but unlikely someone knows a similar jutsu. A ranged explosive weapon with a decent weapons rating also works, though 7th Path clans won't field field those.

I suppose a simple Pangolin Claws attack without any Supplemental buffs at Taijutsu 69 with Boost 7 would be 76 - Hazou's 52 (40 + 10 Sub + 5 Boost - 3 PCJ) = 24, /3 = 8, Weapons 2 so 10 Stress, which is a Mild and a Medium and a Severe and 1/3 Stress in the track, so 3 away from death. PCJ prevents the Severe there I guess but still full track. A Supplemental buff could swing it.. but yeah, I agree its a bit unfeasible for a SJ to oneshot Hazou currently unless they specialize in one hit wonders or roll really high, which FP rerolls should minimize the risk of.

That being said, taking a Mild and a Medium in one round is still a very bad look and would likely have Hazou unsummon immediately for obvious reasons, even if he doesn't get a Severe too which he might. Not exactly a show of force at that point.

_The_Bomb · May 23, 2023

_The_Bomb said:
To confirm, things looks something like this:

@Paperclipped, given that Hazō knows the exact locations and path that everyone took, could you provide me with the traversed distance and estimated travel time between:

The foreign's team entrance point in Fire to where they found Team Akane's trail.
Where the foreign team found Team Akane's trail to the campsite where Team Akane was located.
Team Akane's Campsite to the spot the foreign team exited Fire.
The Gates of Konoha to the foreign team's entry point, assuming someone traveled on a direct line / whatever route would be fastest.

_The_Bomb · May 23, 2023

eaglejarl said:
Day after tomorrow? That should give me time to set it up."

"Thank you, sir."

@eaglejarl, can we assume Hazōpilot has adjusted his existing research schedule or the day of the exam such that he is fully recovered from SSA usage when he is tested?

ContextBot · May 23, 2023

RandomOTP said:
I suspect that Orochimaru has a stunt that boosts his Intimidation stat by a large amount.

Yes? He even told us:

Velorien said:
"Oh, you must be referring to the conscious aetheric stimulation of the oracular node for temporary harmonic alignment of the full tertiary chakra network, combined with a forced resonance effect. I thought you were here for ancient lore, not to waste my time on something so simple."

See? Very simple.

_The_Bomb · May 23, 2023

eaglejarl said:
"I see," Asuma said again. "Hazō, why are you bringing this to me? It's fascinating, and I'm very grateful that you did, but why? This is the kind of thing that most clans would keep very secret."

Someday soon, people entering our compound will have to walk through an archway between the legs of a colossal statue of Gōketsu Jiraiya.

Upon that arch, the Gōketsu Creed shall be inscribed:

Ask not what your Village can do for you – ask what you can do for your Village.

Paperclipped · May 23, 2023

Shrooms said:
@eaglejarl @Velorien Does Hazou think he could spend his own research time and reverse engineer this carved-seal style or does he think it's impossible without a teacher?

Also, does Hazou know or at least speculate that Orochimaru would know this style?

With some skill in carving and some time invested, Hazou absolutely thinks he could reverse engineer the carved-seal style if he had a couple of examples. HDK if Leaf has reference materials for this.

HDK, but if it was knowledge available in Leaf, it would be surprising if Orochimaru wholly overlooked it.

ProperAttorney said:
@Paperclipped If you've a moment, would Hazo think any of the following would lower the TN/complexity of a seal, and if they could be combined?
Making the seal have multiple elements.
Making the seal effect end if moved.
Making the seal effect "load" before taking place.
Making the seal effect end if Chakra is used nearby.

Yes, probably moreso the more complex the effect is. Hazou hasn't yet tried anything yet that the Hazoupilot would want to make into a multi-element array.
Absolutely.
Situationally.
Very situationally.

_The_Bomb said:
@Paperclipped, given that Hazō knows the exact locations and path that everyone took, could you provide me with the traversed distance and estimated travel time between:

The foreign's team entrance point in Fire to where they found Team Akane's trail.

Where the foreign team found Team Akane's trail to the campsite where Team Akane was located.

Team Akane's Campsite to the spot the foreign team exited Fire.

The Gates of Konoha to the foreign team's entry point, assuming someone traveled on a direct line / whatever route would be fastest.

As the crow flies, it was a bit less than 40 miles, which would be around 2 hours. However, they spent a while zig-zagging through the countryside, so Hazou thinks they spent closer to 4-8 hours in Fire, depending on how fast they were going.
Around 30 miles. At speed, that would be ~1.5 hours.
Around 30 miles, or around 1.5 hours.
Around 60 miles, or around 3 hours.

RandomOTP · May 23, 2023

RandomOTP said:
[x] Noburi Training Plan: Surging Seas to 10
Surging Seas 9 -> 10 (-5 general XP)

2 General XP Remaining
0 Banked Medknow XP Remaining

Boost

_The_Bomb · May 23, 2023

Paperclipped said:
Around 60 miles, or around 3 hours.

Has there been a change in borders that is not reflected on the map? Based on the scale, it measures more like ~95 miles from Konoha to the border.

Additionally, the border looks significantly further away than Akane's Mission location, which was noted to be "4 hours' travel from Leaf."

Velorien said:
PSA: Clarification on Akane's mission location

After Loremaster intervention and extensive discussion, we have determined that there was a misunderstanding about the Wakare Woods' location relative to the Swamp of Death. The Woods are located roughly above the RE in "FIRE COUNTRY" on the MfD map, 4 hours' travel from Leaf. The Swamp of Death is roughly on the border with Rock, over 30 miles away. The update will be edited accordingly.

faflec · May 23, 2023

_The_Bomb said:
Has there been a change in borders that is not reflected on the map? Based on the scale, it measures more like ~95 miles from Konoha to the border.

Additionally, the border looks significantly further away than Akane's Mission location, which was noted to be "4 hours' travel from Leaf."

Rock did take a whole bunch of land after the Collapse...

acidshill · May 23, 2023

Left-Hand Mutant said:
@acidshill you've mentioned timeskips repeatedly. How would that play out? What would you want to cover before entering the timeskip, what would you like to skip over, and how long would you want it to be?
Please explain/pitch it to me.

Before a timeskip, we should wrap up the conclave, the investigation into Akane's disappearance, and probably a few other near-term things I forgot about. I'd want to skip probably 1-3 months, depending on if anything important happens in the meantime, giving Hazō time to do a whole bunch of training and sealing research so that when we're done he'll be more combat effective, have made progress on the minato seal chain so we can get into necromancy, and possibly leveled earthshaping enough to get 3D sealing.

Shrooms said:
Not acidshill, but for me, I would like to see this Hidan plotline play out at the very least. That's what I'm most interested at this point. In addition to that, I'd like to get Mareo to Leaf. Besides that, most of what people seem to want to do is work on necromancy/the Great Seal, which means just doing a bunch of research, which is quite skippable to me. I'd probably skip a month minimum, preferably 3 months.

I think waiting for the Hidan plotline to play out makes sense, assuming it isn't going to take more than a month before Hazō hears news about it. Getting Mareo to Leaf sounds considerably more complicated, and I'm not convinced it's actually feasible yet—he hasn't actually said he'd be interested in that, has he? We'd need to do more scenes with him, probably, but frankly we can only split our focus so many ways and I'm not convinced that's a good place to spend it.

Shrooms said:
Hopefully during that time we accumulate some extra social xp from Asuma's tutelage.

Social XP can't fix us making bad decisions unless the social lessons are onscreen, and maybe not even then. A series of interludes taking place during the timeskip would be fun, if the QMs wanted to write those.

_The_Bomb · May 23, 2023

Paperclipped said:
As the crow flies, it was a bit less than 40 miles, which would be around 2 hours. However, they spent a while zig-zagging through the countryside, so Hazou thinks they spent closer to 4-8 hours in Fire, depending on how fast they were going.

So, they zigged-zagged about 80 miles, which could be covered in ~4 hours at full cross-country speed or about twice that if they paced themselves?

Ninja can cross-country at a sustained average 20 mph for 8 hr/day, 4 days/week, or 10hr / 5days with Wakahisa support. We chose these numbers by saying "How fast can Usain Bolt sprint? Okay, ninja can jog that fast for hours." —EJ

Assuming they did pace themselves, how much chakra would that have saved? Would it only cost ~3 hours worth? Two?

EDIT: Ah, one more question.

Paperclipped said:
Around 30 miles, or around 1.5 hours.

Would tree-hopping and doing brief stealth skyhops slow their pace down? Assuming they weren't Leaf ninja who were well versed in tree traveling.

_The_Bomb · May 23, 2023

faflec said:
Rock did take a whole bunch of land after the Collapse...

This isn't the Rock border though…

@Paperclipped, is there some sort of map with the locations of the campsite, entry and exit points marked floating around QM chat that you could post?

Paperclipped · May 23, 2023

_The_Bomb said:
Has there been a change in borders that is not reflected on the map? Based on the scale, it measures more like ~95 miles from Konoha to the border.

Additionally, the border looks significantly further away than Akane's Mission location, which was noted to be "4 hours' travel from Leaf."

Fire has lost land in the north and west to a combination of Grass, Rock, and Waterfall (though Rock did essentially all the fighting in exchange for Grass and Waterfall staying out of the way). Additionally, the attackers did not go to a border when they broke trail, but rather broke it a small but noteworthy distance away.

All these distances and times are approximate. From the gates of Leaf, the attacker's entry point is slightly farther than the place where Akane's team had their encounter, but not by much.

_The_Bomb said:
Assuming they did pace themselves, how much chakra would that have saved? Would it only cost ~3 hours worth? Two?

HDK their reserves and regeneration rates. If they went slowly, he thinks it more likely because they didn't want to be caught or they were looking for a trail.