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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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roobee said:
Are minato's bijuu seal notes a superset of jiraiya's? or does jiraiya's cover some different additional aspects?
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Minato's bijū seal notes are the definitive source, straight from the creator. The ones that you found in Jiraiya's papers (Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest) are his own ruminations on and attempts at understanding Minato's notes. There's a whole lot of "what the fuck?!" and "this is a joke, right?" and "rotten little shit is absolutely trolling me here; be sure to kick him around the training field next time."
 
eaglejarl said:
Minato's bijū seal notes are the definitive source, straight from the creator. The ones that you found in Jiraiya's papers (Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest) are his own ruminations on and attempts at understanding Minato's notes. There's a whole lot of "what the fuck?!" and "this is a joke, right?" and "rotten little shit is absolutely trolling me here; be sure to kick him around the training field next time."
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Our interpretation of this is that Jiraiya didn't crack the code and that there isn't a lot of value in them on that basis?
Veedrac said:
Some brief comments as the runner-up.
  • I respect @FaintlySorcerous' plan. I'm not convinced it's optimal, but I love that it's earnest and pointed in a good direction, and that it deals with things I value.
  • I think this is the closest that science has been to a winning plan, which is pretty damn cool even if it fell short and probably wasn't the primary appeal of the vote for most people.
  • It would have been great to have a tie vote, which is one of the few pieces of blatant metagaming I'm always excitedly eager for. Tie votes go great.
  • I have no idea how 'You aren't your father. You are his son. You're, forgive us if we overstep, a good man.' is going to translate.
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I don't think I've seen this sort of runner-up post before and I really appreciated it. Thank you, @Veedrac: it meant a lot. Planmaking can often feel contentious (even though it's ultimately a collaborative process) and this was really cool of you. I'm going to try to do more of this sort of thing going forward.

Also, if you're ever angling for a tie, I've personally had success changing votes by approaching people one-on-one (most often folks who have voted for my plans before, generally over Discord) and asking how they feel about the plans etc. It's not something I do on anything like a regular basis (maybe three times max, and only on things I thought were really important: it's effort-intensive and can be enough of a superpower that I don't want to deploy it regularly for - hey, is this my EM nuke? Am I proliferating? No, this is fine.) but it is a technique available and would probably work pretty well especially in cases where you can convince people to go for ties.

I, personally, am generally amicable to ties and if a plan author approached me and said that they wanted to try to tie it up, there are decent odds I'd work with them. This isn't tremendously applicable when my plan and the plan of the other author are diametrically opposed, and I have no idea how the QMs would feel about this sort of collusion becoming a regular occurrence, but I wanted to throw it out there.
 
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Cariyaga said:
[X] Action Plan: Starting Anew
  • Check with Mari.
  • Start making arrangements for the movement of Gouketsu back into Leaf
  • Practice using Earthshaping for both art and architecture - if the Gouketsu are going to be in Leaf proper, Hazou's going to make it the most beautiful clan compound.
    • Plans include a statue of Jiraiya as he would like in the entryway, little waterways with (non-chakra) koi, and scattered, communal vegetable gardens. The front portion of the compounds should be open and welcoming.
      • Of course, the portion around Kagome's quarters will be a hellscape of traps which Hazou is to collaborate with Kagome on making all the more deadly with the help of Earthshaping
      • Clan colors for the stone used, smoothed together as if all originally one rock.
      • Take your time on these; it's perfectly alright to do these slowly and right.
      • Hire and pay civilian contractors so as not to run against the Merchant Council, but do what you do best with Earthshaping yourself.
  • Visit other clan compounds for inspiration, and making certain that the architecture Hazou's creating fits with the established stuff in Konoha.
    • Visit the Amori, Hyuuga, Hagoromo (show actual interest here, and do your best to ignore jabs), Aburame, and Uchiha compounds in particular
  • When finished with the above, invite the other clans over for a celebration of the new Gouketsu housing.
    • Specific invites beyond the norm (that being clan heads, uplift, etc.): Minori Minami's mother (inform her that the Hyuuga will be present, out of courtesy), Naruto, Ami, allow plus-2s (intent: allow all summoners to show up except Orochimaru without the same thing as happened last time)
  • Be there for Akane, as much as you can. Don't expect things to get better; just be there to support her, as much as you can.
  • Continue work on Minato seals, in the meantime.

I wanna do some building. So here's some building. Taking suggestions.
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Are we planning to bring the aqueduct inside, or is that a massive city-wise project? What benefits did the clan observed from it as opposed to a well? The little waterway should be renamed to street canals for clarification. Hazo also intended for Koi fishes to "escape" to these street canals.

What about sewage? That may also require city wise coordination.
 
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Cariyaga said:
Visit the Amori, Hyuuga, Hagoromo (show actual interest here, and do your best to ignore jabs), Aburame, and Uchiha compounds in particular
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Why the Hyuga and not the Minami? something something snubs their clan something something pls no
Cariyaga said:
Be there for Akane, as much as you can. Don't expect things to get better; just be there to support her, as much as you can.
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Can this be at the very top (like, right under the sanity-check)?
 
There's going to be some serious civil engineering and permitting needed if we want to bring aqueduct and sanitation system inside Konoha.
 
Cariyaga said:
[X] Action Plan: Starting Anew
  • Check with Mari.
  • Start making arrangements for the movement of Gouketsu back into Leaf
  • Practice using Earthshaping for both art and architecture - if the Gouketsu are going to be in Leaf proper, Hazou's going to make it the most beautiful clan compound.
    • Plans include a statue of Jiraiya as he would like in the entryway, little waterways with (non-chakra) koi, and scattered, communal vegetable gardens. The front portion of the compounds should be open and welcoming.
      • Of course, the portion around Kagome's quarters will be a hellscape of traps which Hazou is to collaborate with Kagome on making all the more deadly with the help of Earthshaping
      • Clan colors for the stone used, smoothed together as if all originally one rock.
      • Take your time on these; it's perfectly alright to do these slowly and right.
      • Hire and pay civilian contractors so as not to run against the Merchant Council, but do what you do best with Earthshaping yourself.
  • Visit other clan compounds for inspiration, and making certain that the architecture Hazou's creating fits with the established stuff in Konoha.
    • Visit the Amori, Hyuuga, Hagoromo (show actual interest here, and do your best to ignore jabs), Aburame, and Uchiha compounds in particular
  • When finished with the above, invite the other clans over for a celebration of the new Gouketsu housing.
    • Specific invites beyond the norm (that being clan heads, uplift, etc.): Minori Minami's mother (inform her that the Hyuuga will be present, out of courtesy), Naruto, Ami, allow plus-2s (intent: allow all summoners to show up except Orochimaru without the same thing as happened last time)
  • Be there for Akane, as much as you can. Don't expect things to get better; just be there to support her, as much as you can.
  • Continue work on Minato seals, in the meantime.

I wanna do some building. So here's some building. Taking suggestions.
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The previous arguments convinced me

[X] Action Plan: Starting Anew

Uhm...Could we try to find Noda's fiance? See if he's alive and have a talk with him, tell him that Noda at least didn't die awake or something? Promise vengeance against Orochimaru and bring him on our side Also, do we need to specify we'll create new FOOM secret rooms or it will be done automatically?


more in general for the hivemind, quoting Asuma:

eaglejarl said:
"True...still, the toads are not the most combat-oriented of the clans. Their primary value is and always has been as teachers. There are exceptions, yes—Gamabunta is a combat monster while Ma and Pa are equally devastating in their own way—but combat is not their forte." He paused. "Also, if you'll forgive me, the scroll could be passed on to someone else."
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We have the Clan whose primary value is teaching people and they taught us nothing. I feel we should maybe tap that well of untold potential, just saying.
 
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Lord Marshal said:
We have the Clan whose primary value is teaching people and they taught us nothing. I feel we should maybe tap that well of untold potential, just saying.
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faflec said:
There will probably be a massive commotion about 3D seals/ES and EM nukes in the next update, and we most likely will want to make plans based on that...but if we can, I would like our next plan (or the plan after that) to poke some more holes at Ruri's comment on the previous Polemarch. RandomOTP's previous plan had him ask the Toads about them, but if this hasn't happened yet and we need to re-write it I would also like to ask about Pasafutsu, who apparently lived 600 years previously and who may have links to the previous Polemarch (or who could have been the previous Polemarch).

There was another topic I wanted to also do, but I don't remember it.
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Also this.
 
RandomOTP said:
[X] Action Plan: How Does the Sin of Genocide Sit on a Heart?
Words: <200
  • Sanity check all with Mari
  • (Unless Akane exhibits discomfort at Hazou's presence) stay by Akane's side. Clan Head duties, meetings, and the like can all be conducted via Shadow Clone. Those who matter won't mind, and those who will, don't.
    • If Akane is discomforted, then perhaps a rotating cast of the other OG Uplift squad?
  • Kei
    • You've helped Akane before. Please help her again. You have a personal insight into her plight.
    • We know what we're asking. It'll be painful for you to discuss. Please help, anyway.
  • Privately inform Mari about the estate change. Verbally maintain EM Nuke opsec.
  • Misc
    • Gaku: Begin inventory about what we would need to move the estate.
    • Noburi: Want an apprenticeship with Tsunade? We did a thing. It's already been paid for. We're not allowed to talk about it.
    • Kei: What other skills do you want to pick up? Medical? THing? Sealing? Another Element?
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Not something for this plan cycle but for the next one how would people feel about sitting up the apprenticeship with Tsunade?
 
[X] Action Plan: Building Bridges
Word count: 196
  • Convene with Noburi about the information Ruri revealed about the previous Polemarch. Have Noburi ask the Toads about them and Pasafutsu, who apparently lived 600 years previously and who may have links to the previous Polemarch (or who could have beenthe previous Polemarch).
    • Inform and congratulate him about his apprenticeship with Tsunade.
  • Tell Akane that Hazou will be collecting any possible information about the civilians caught in the EM Superstorm from any nearby communities.
    • They're a priority in project necromancy.
    • No pressure.
    • Would she like Ino's company?
    • If it helps, inform her that Hazou's been mulling over peaceful applications of EM. He'll come up with something...
  • Maintain opsec while working with Mari to inform the clan about the super storm sealing incident (cover story). It involved the 4th Hokage's seals. This event has led Hazou to believe closer relations with the other clans would be pragmatic.
    • Molify the clan beforehand by practicing using Earthshaping for both art and architecture display models - if the Gouketsu are moving closer to Leaf, Hazou's going to make it the most beautiful clan compound.
      • Work with quartz, limestone, and obsidian.
      • Have individual pieces to appeal to everyone's personal taste.
      • Take feedback.
 
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[X] Action Plan: Starting Anew

I just don't like groveling chapters that much. This is more fun and productive IMO
 
So, something I figured is the case about ES is that it can only condense/purify a rock up to a certain point, right? Or at least something similar to that.

Different rocks have different levels of purity in nature; you have like granite and shit on the lower end and super high purity quartz for IC chips and the like on the high end. Would it not be a good idea to try and source some different rocks to experiment ES on? IC you can try to direct him towards more valuable/ culturally "pure" rocks to start with and experiment from there maybe?

Mostly just feel like the answer to 3d seals might not just be to powerlevel the jutsu high enough.
 
@eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien
Roughly how fast is Earth Shaping? We know the volume we can affect goes as 8ᴬᴮ, but is the rate scaling to match?

Eg. if we want to dig a hole the size of our max Earth Shaping boundary, does this take exponentially longer as the level goes up?
 
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Lord Marshal said:
The previous arguments convinced me

[X] Action Plan: Starting Anew

Uhm...Could we try to find Noda's fiance? See if he's alive and have a talk with him, tell him that Noda at least didn't die awake or something? Promise vengeance against Orochimaru and bring him on our side Also, do we need to specify we'll create new FOOM secret rooms or it will be done automatically?


more in general for the hivemind, quoting Asuma:



We have the Clan whose primary value is teaching people and they taught us nothing. I feel we should maybe tap that well of untold potential, just saying.
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Good point re: Toads. Gonna futz with the plan a bit, but it's already pretty packed. I'll do my best.
 
Cariyaga said:
[X] Action Plan: Starting Anew

WC:298
  • Check with Mari.
  • Be there for Akane, much as you can. Don't expect things to get better; just be there to support her, as much as you can.
  • Start making arrangements for the move into Leaf
  • Practice Earthshaping for both art and architecture - if the Gouketsu are going to be in Leaf proper, Hazou's going to make it damn pretty.
    • Plans include a statue of Jiraiya as he would like in the entryway, little waterways with (non-chakra) koi, and scattered, communal vegetable gardens. The front portion of the compounds should be open and welcoming.
      • The portion around Kagome's quarters will be a hellscape of traps which Hazou is to aid in making more deadly with the help of Earthshaping
      • Clan colors for stone used, smoothed together as if all originally one rock.
      • Take your time on these; it's perfectly alright to do these slowly and right.
      • Hire and pay civilian contractors so as not to run against the Merchant Council, but do what you do best with Earthshaping yourself.
  • Visit other clan compounds for inspiration, and making certain that the architecture Hazou's creating fits with the established norm in Konoha.
    • Visit the Amori, Minami, Hyuuga, Hagoromo (show actual interest here, and do your best to ignore jabs), Aburame, and Uchiha compounds in particular
    • Use this as an opportunity to humbly learn about their beliefs
  • When finished, invite other clans over for a celebration of the new Gouketsu housing.
    • Specific invites beyond the norm (that being clan heads, uplift, etc.): Minori Minami's mother (inform her that the Hyuuga will be present, out of courtesy), Naruto, Ami, allow plus-2s (intent: allow summoners to show up except Orochimaru without the same thing as happened last time)
  • Continue work on Minato seals, in the meantime.
  • Direct Noburi to look into Toad teachers

I wanna do some building. So here's some building. Taking suggestions.
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Updated.
 
How long do these plans expect to timeskip?

Also, it's not a good idea to not take into consideration aqueduct and sewage ahead of time. As digging up the streets would be quite disruptive. You wan to get ahead of that before anything else, really.
 
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PSA: The following has been added to the Earthshaping jutsu rules:

(NOTE: The results of ES's density manipulation are ultimately non-magical, but none of the QMs care about material science enough to see how much you can actually compact the individual atoms of diamond or granite or whatever. In the game universe, each type of stone has a different maximum compression/expansion ratio. Out-of-game, we're rounding it off to 50% for convenience. If you try to do something that's conditioned on real-world material science interacting with chakra magic, we will make it fail by default, unless it solely depends on denser/stronger or lighter/brittle stone in the way we expected this to go when we were making ES.)


and


FtD is intentionally imprecise about time, so there are not going to be precise numbers. You need to spend 'a few minutes' (see the Time Ladder in the rules) to start the jutsu and a few minutes to stop the jutsu. This time is not counted towards how long your desired goal takes. The required time will vary based on QM judgment. The fastest is simple, crude, small-scale things that can be done with your hands assisting your chakra abilities. A good example is "dig a small hole". If you're working with larger amounts of stuff, it takes longer. If you're doing fine detail work, it takes longer. If you need to do it entirely with chakra instead of being able to use your hands, it takes longer. If the moon is in the wrong phase (i.e., if the QMs think it should take longer) then it takes longer. We reserve the right to use whatever values we choose, but in general it will take anywhere from 15 minutes to 12 hours per casting, and some projects may even require multiple castings.

Additionally, some uses might require extra knowledge. If you want to make a bridge using the minimum material (in order to do it quickly) then you might need some sort of construction-related skill in order to ensure that it stands up under load.
 
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Black King said:
So that's kinda weird and should probably be taken out. It makes us out to be a traveling missionary. That's more of something we learn over time via casual conversation, not on visits to improve our architecture.
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Nah. This is Hazou following through on what Asuma told him to do. The verbiage is necessary because Hazou is an opinionated little shit and without instruction otherwise he will absolutely judge people for their beliefs.
 
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