Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Rafin · Dec 6, 2022

@Paperclipped I don't quite understand why Akane didn't have the chakra to cast both SC and EM. How did she do it during the first test?

FaintlySorcerous said:
So...how would we actually do this? AFAIK the QMs are bored to tears by the things I can think that would accomplish this (trade, otherwise-pointless social events).

We could have a canon version of going drinking with Sasuke and Choji.

Shrooms said:
So uh, how come Kei doesn't know any Nara jutsu still? Is she allowed to learn any? Is it bloodline related? I thought they were just secret techniques but maybe that's Nara propaganda

And more generally, do the Nara not have any Clan secrets related to/requiring training? Do we need to remind Kei that, should there be anything like that, we can't take it into account when it comes to advising her on her training?

cog-nito · Dec 6, 2022

RandomOTP said:
(Assuming Kei, herself, approves of it) it would allow her the comfort of healing herself without being forced to be touched by another person.

I would hesitate to have her overly invest in it beyond a moderate amount without Kei having an in-character enthusiasm for the field (or even just an idle academic interest).

[] Training Kei: What Do You Mean 593?

I honestly think this is a horrifically terrible idea from a mental health point of view to contiueously give Kei ways to avoid facing her fears of being touched, if we're not careful about this and continue to feed into her delusions touching people = scary.

Her fears could very well end up escalating to the point where she elects to burn any article of clothing anyelse thouches, because from her delusional perspective it would now be "tainted"

Example source: a germaphobic family friend who now spends his days locked in his house standing in the corner of the kitchen all day unmoving, because he believes absolutely everything around him at this point is horribly tainted. He's been in and out a mental hospital several times.

The absolute WORST thing you could possibly do for someone with utterly irrational fears like Kei, is provide validation that their fears are actually rational.

Without the people around you acting as islands of sanity and assuring you that your fears are not real you'll just end slipping further and further into madness.

Heck, I myself might have ended up exactly like the family friend I mentioned earlier had it not been for my own mother's no nonsense attitute .

coldcutconvict · Dec 6, 2022

[X] Romancing the Nuke
Ask for political mentorship from Asuma. Spend time with him he is pleased to give, professional + casual. Build mutual understanding and foundation for trust.

Paperclipped · Dec 6, 2022

Rafin said:
@Paperclipped I don't quite understand why Akane didn't have the chakra to cast both SC and EM. How did she do it during the first test?

Akane does not have the chakra to do so numerically. She has 320 CP total, casting SC with one clone costs 175 CP, leaving 145 CP, which is split between herself and the clone, leaving her with 73 and the clone with 72 CP. Level 40 EM at full power costs 120 CP. Clones don't regenerate chakra, so her clone cannot cast Elemental Mastery at full power without refilling on chakra. Therefore, Akane must have cast SC in Leaf and refilled from Noburi before heading out west to train with EM.

Iris-Iven-Ibis · Dec 6, 2022

[X] Action Plan: Starting Anew

CommunismWillWin · Dec 6, 2022

RandomOTP said:
You know, I've long-since theorized that Noburi's chakra water might help make an artificial form of chakra metal if we use it in the refinement of iron ore... but what if we add Earthshaping into the mix? Between chakra metal and Earthshaping, I feel like we could seriously make an artificial form of chakra metal.

The chakra metal idea is intriguing, even without ES (can we use ES on iron ore?). Have we tried having a blacksmith manufacture a weapon, but just quenching it in chakra water instead of regular water? Mist isn't producing an abundance of chakra metal as far as I know, so it might not do anything, but ninja hubris might have prevented them from even having the idea in the first place. We should try all 3 separately, if possible. And, uh, give Asuma the heads up that we're trying something (no details since it would certainly qualify as a clan secret), in case we end up creating a steel chakra golem or something.

If we give Asuma a superweapon and a reliable source of chakra metal within a month he will personally kill every Hagoromo (other than Harumitsu) if they so much look in the general direction of our compound.

RandomOTP · Dec 6, 2022

CommunismWillWin said:
The chakra metal idea is intriguing, even without ES (can we use ES on iron ore?). Have we tried having a blacksmith manufacture a weapon, but just quenching it in chakra water instead of regular water? Mist isn't producing an abundance of chakra metal as far as I know, so it might not do anything, but ninja hubris might have prevented them from even having the idea in the first place. We should try all 3 separately, if possible. And, uh, give Asuma the heads up that we're trying something (no details since it would certainly qualify as a clan secret), in case we end up creating a steel chakra golem or something.

If we give Asuma a superweapon and a reliable source of chakra metal within a month he will personally kill every Hagoromo (other than Harumitsu) if they so much look in the general direction of our compound.

My hope is that unrefined iron ore counts as "Earth enough" for ES to work on it.

To my knowledge, we haven't tried basic forging using Noburi's chakra water.

Lord Marshal · Dec 6, 2022

Cariyaga said:
[X] Action Plan: Starting Anew

Check with Mari.

Start making arrangements for the movement of Gouketsu back into Leaf

Practice using Earthshaping for both art and architecture - if the Gouketsu are going to be in Leaf proper, Hazou's going to make it the most beautiful clan compound.

Plans include a statue of Jiraiya as he would like in the entryway, little waterways with (non-chakra) koi, and scattered, communal vegetable gardens. The front portion of the compounds should be open and welcoming.

Of course, the portion around Kagome's quarters will be a hellscape of traps which Hazou is to collaborate with Kagome on making all the more deadly with the help of Earthshaping

Clan colors for the stone used, smoothed together as if all originally one rock.

Take your time on these; it's perfectly alright to do these slowly and right.

Hire and pay civilian contractors so as not to run against the Merchant Council, but do what you do best with Earthshaping yourself.

Visit other clan compounds for inspiration, and making certain that the architecture Hazou's creating fits with the established stuff in Konoha.

Visit the Amori, Hyuuga, Hagoromo (show actual interest here, and do your best to ignore jabs), Aburame, and Uchiha compounds in particular

When finished with the above, invite the other clans over for a celebration of the new Gouketsu housing.

Specific invites beyond the norm (that being clan heads, uplift, etc.): Minori Minami's mother (inform her that the Hyuuga will be present, out of courtesy), Naruto, Ami, allow plus-2s (intent: allow all summoners to show up except Orochimaru without the same thing as happened last time)

Be there for Akane, as much as you can. Don't expect things to get better; just be there to support her, as much as you can.

Continue work on Minato seals, in the meantime.

I wanna do some building. So here's some building. Taking suggestions.

I'm interested in voting for this, but before could be possible to add

1) A small section when we tell Akane we need to grow strong enough to the point Leaf cannot go to war without us + That as long as one of Uplift becomes Hokage(No treason involved) we can put the nuke back in the box

Is not much, but Akane needs an objective to think about, something to use her energy on.

2) I would interested in asking Mari to share her genjutsu hacking process with us, and explain what is easier/more difficult to do/legendary genjutsu people talk about/ect...

The idea is so that we have something to sink our teeth into to help her create an S-rank technique, like we did with the skywalkers for Kagome. As long as we know how it works, after all, we don't need to have the skill ourselves.
I would probably explain the reasoning, otherwise Mari will probably just say "no".

Cariyaga · Dec 6, 2022

Lord Marshal said:
I'm interested in voting for this, but before could be possible to add

1) A small section when we tell Akane we need to grow strong enough to the point Leaf cannot go to war without us + That as long as one of Uplift becomes Hokage(No treason involved) we can put the nuke back in the box

Is not much, but Akane needs an objective to think about, something use her energy on.

2) I would interested in asking Mari to share her genjutsu hacking process with us, and explain what is easier/more difficult to do/legendary genjutsu people talk about/ect...

The idea is so that we have something to sink our teeth into to help her create an S-rank technique, like we did with the skywalkers for Kagome. As long as we know how it works, after all, we don't need to have the skill ourselves.
I would probably explain the reasoning, otherwise Mari will probably just say "no".

I don't really think the part with Akane is especially wise. We shouldn't be promising things we can't deliver. And I have zero interest in anyone involved in Uplift becoming Hokage -- that's a lot of work none of us really wanna do. Jiraiya wasn't really around long enough to be part of Uplift, though he was getting there.

Regardless, I don't think she's bothered as much about what's done with EM so much as the fact that she did not think to say "Hey maybe we shouldn't do this" because she has a tendency to follow whomever she's focused on at the moment.

Additionally:

Cariyaga said:
This is beginning to sound like a two-update plan, in which case we should probably clear that with the QMs.

@Velorien @eaglejarl @Paperclipped Is it alright if I write a plan that's definitely got enough content for both of you (whichever two end up writing it), in terms of scenes?

This is already likely to end up a multi-update plan, and I kind of prefer to keep plans... thematically cohesive, I guess?

The thing with Mari I do agree I'd like us to know, but... well, honestly, it's the kind of thing you can just ask the QMs -- it'll require discussion anyway, so it's no better off as part of an update as an informational. @eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped Bringing this question to your collective attention.

eaglejarl · Dec 6, 2022

Lord Marshal said:
help her create an S-rank technique, like we did with the skywalkers for Kagome.

Quibble: You didn't create the skywalkers as a technique for Kagome, you did them simply to do them. If you want to claim that you did them for Kagome then that's not the best look, since you promptly convinced the group to give that technique away to an entire village.

Lysbeth Succubus · Dec 6, 2022

coldcutconvict said:
[X] Romancing the Nuke

Ah yes, project: om-nuke-ule

faflec · Dec 6, 2022

faflec said:
There will probably be a massive commotion about 3D seals/ES and EM nukes in the next update, and we most likely will want to make plans based on that...but if we can, I would like our next plan (or the plan after that) to poke some more holes at Ruri's comment on the previous Polemarch. RandomOTP's previous plan had him ask the Toads about them, but if this hasn't happened yet and we need to re-write it I would also like to ask about Pasafutsu, who apparently lived 600 years previously and who may have links to the previous Polemarch (or who could have been the previous Polemarch).

There was another topic I wanted to also do, but I don't remember it.

*hint hint*

Oneiros · Dec 6, 2022

Cariyaga said:
I have zero interest in anyone involved in Uplift becoming Hokage --

I feel the same way but more in I think the Hokage shouldn't exist after we abolish the village system

Sir Stompy · Dec 6, 2022

[X] Action Plan: Starting Anew

RandomOTP said:
My hope is that unrefined iron ore counts as "Earth enough" for ES to work on it.

To my knowledge, we haven't tried basic forging using Noburi's chakra water.

Iron ore is chemically different from iron metal. It's usually rocks that are high in iron oxide. Various oxides are commonly found in basically all rocks.

So it should be fine. Iron ore is rock the same way granite is rock.

@Cariyaga is there any chance we could put a line in the plan about ESing windows out of transparent quartz?

faflec · Dec 6, 2022

[X] Training Kei: What Do You Mean 593?
I personally don't like the idea of prioritizing combat over Deceit, but eh.

RandomOTP · Dec 6, 2022

Current action plan.
Changelog:

Removed the bow, because there was some discontent about the tone it set
Added an acknowledgement that it'll be difficult for Kei to talk about.

RandomOTP said:
[X] Action Plan: How Does the Sin of Genocide Sit on a Heart?
Words: <200

Sanity check all with Mari

(Unless Akane exhibits discomfort at Hazou's presence) stay by Akane's side. Clan Head duties, meetings, and the like can all be conducted via Shadow Clone. Those who matter won't mind, and those who will, don't.

If Akane is discomforted, then perhaps a rotating cast of the other OG Uplift squad?

Kei

You've helped Akane before. Please help her again. You have a personal insight into her plight.

We know what we're asking. It'll be painful for you to discuss. Please help, anyway.

Privately inform Mari about the estate change. Verbally maintain EM Nuke opsec.

Misc

Gaku: Begin inventory about what we would need to move the estate.

Noburi: Want an apprenticeship with Tsunade? We did a thing. It's already been paid for. We're not allowed to talk about it.

Kei: What other skills do you want to pick up? Medical? THing? Sealing? Another Element?

[X] Training Kei: What Do You Mean 593?

Velorien · Dec 6, 2022

Cariyaga said:
@Velorien @eaglejarl @Paperclipped Is it alright if I write a plan that's definitely got enough content for both of you (whichever two end up writing it), in terms of scenes?

If your plan exceeds the span of a single update, voting will be reopened, and even if you choose to continue the previous plan, you may not get everything that you want. If you accept these, then yes, that's fine. Note EJ's total scene limit of 3.

Shrooms · Dec 6, 2022

faflec said:
[X] Training Kei: What Do You Mean 593?
I personally don't like the idea of prioritizing combat over Deceit, but eh.

Well, my concern is that if you don't include summoning, then for reference, uh, I think Hazou might actually be a better combatant than her lmao. That's never a good sign. A majority of Goketsu's buffs and seals are either melee exclusive, or work better in melee range, and this makes Kei's fighting skills a little lackluster. RW also doesn't get fighting styles. May want to see if there's any RW wind buffs in the library or something

But yes, Deceit next absolutely.

CommunismWillWin · Dec 6, 2022

[X] Training Kei: What Do You Mean 593?

Sir Stompy · Dec 6, 2022

[X] Training Kei: What Do You Mean 593?

roobee · Dec 6, 2022

eaglejarl said:
Naruto's bijū seal. Not complete information but it's a good start.

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Are minato's bijuu seal notes a superset of jiraiya's? or does jiraiya's cover some different additional aspects?

For addressing how KEI can control non-jonin ninja after being adopted into clans. We can look at how clan heads control their ninja.
Soft control via culture.
Hard control via money and access to clan resources (jutsu, seals, etc.). Theoretically a clan head can also kill their members but in practice leaf culture means that isn't allowed to happen.

KEI currently controls its members with jutsu sharing and stuff. But when members become clan KEI stops sharing jutsu with them. One way is if KEI allows clan ninja to become KEI and trades jutsu with clan ninja then they can continue to exert control on clan adopted ninja.

KEI can do a similar thing with money. Pay it's members with money. Allow clan ninja to be members to exert control over them.
How can KEI get the money to use as carrot to control ninja that have become clan? Well, where do clan heads get the money? From the Hokage

eaglejarl said:
The money that goes to clans / clanless jōnin is paid 10% as a non-conditional cash transfer to the Clan Head / jōnin and the other 90% is in the form of conditional payments -- equipment allotments, tax refunds, bonuses to mission pay, etc. (See below for more.) The large majority of the non-conditional cash payment is typically used on clan investments, etc with only a small (or zero) allowance to each ninja.

Where does the Hokage get the money? From taxation

eaglejarl said:
Rural farmers > Local lords > Daimyo > Hokage > Clan ninja + clanless jōnin
Urbanites (farmer and not) > Daimyo > Hokage > Clan ninja + clanless jōnin
All ninja > Hokage > Clan ninja + clanless jōnin

Tax rate for all ninja is 80%, with the first R42,400 (i.e. annual subsistence income for a ninja) not taxed. See below about refunds for clans.

Rihaku said:
Taxation for urbanites equals roughly 70% of their net income after a subsistence deduction of R4,240.

rural farmer tax rate is nearly 100% after subsistence

Radvic said:
So, farmers are unlikely to ever see any money in Marked for Death. Why? Because likely, they live in land owned or "protected" by ninja or councils or mayors, or Daimyos, or whatever, and they just keep enough food to survive

So KEI can tax its members after subsistence.

However KEI currently claims all clanless ninja are members by default. If it requires taxation opt-in to become member. Then some clanless ninja might opt-out. The loss of unity might be a ideological cost to KEI.

Edit: also KEI could just make a contract with the clans. We know from ours with the hags that leaf culture considers contracts a big deal

MadScientist · Dec 6, 2022

[X] Action Plan: Starting Anew

Re: Privacy:

"Hazou, why did you ES-excavate a giant multi-level basement complex under your compound that goes below the range of Hyuuga field of vision?"

"Oh. Y'know. Nostalgia."

cog-nito · Dec 6, 2022

MadScientist said:
[X] Action Plan: Starting Anew

Re: Privacy:

"Hazou, why did you ES-excavate a giant multi-level basement complex under your compound that goes below the range of Hyuuga field of vision?"

"Oh. Y'know. Nostalgia."

Coming from Hazou this would honestly not even be suspicious.

Cariyaga said:
[X] Action Plan: Starting Anew

Check with Mari.

Start making arrangements for the movement of Gouketsu back into Leaf

Practice using Earthshaping for both art and architecture - if the Gouketsu are going to be in Leaf proper, Hazou's going to make it the most beautiful clan compound.

Plans include a statue of Jiraiya as he would like in the entryway, little waterways with (non-chakra) koi, and scattered, communal vegetable gardens. The front portion of the compounds should be open and welcoming.

Of course, the portion around Kagome's quarters will be a hellscape of traps which Hazou is to collaborate with Kagome on making all the more deadly with the help of Earthshaping

Clan colors for the stone used, smoothed together as if all originally one rock.

Take your time on these; it's perfectly alright to do these slowly and right.

Hire and pay civilian contractors so as not to run against the Merchant Council, but do what you do best with Earthshaping yourself.

Visit other clan compounds for inspiration, and making certain that the architecture Hazou's creating fits with the established stuff in Konoha.

Visit the Amori, Hyuuga, Hagoromo (show actual interest here, and do your best to ignore jabs), Aburame, and Uchiha compounds in particular

When finished with the above, invite the other clans over for a celebration of the new Gouketsu housing.

Specific invites beyond the norm (that being clan heads, uplift, etc.): Minori Minami's mother (inform her that the Hyuuga will be present, out of courtesy), Naruto, Ami, allow plus-2s (intent: allow all summoners to show up except Orochimaru without the same thing as happened last time)

Be there for Akane, as much as you can. Don't expect things to get better; just be there to support her, as much as you can.

Continue work on Minato seals, in the meantime.

I wanna do some building. So here's some building. Taking suggestions.

This plan currently has 301 words, might want to try and slim down the wording to have this plan still get brevity xp.

Twinnstars · Dec 6, 2022

So, Hazō just needs limestone to make 3d seals right? Limestone is a super simple rock type with only two major components, one of which (the more stable one too) makes nice discrete veins when it forms. Limestone is brittle, but ES increasing density should fix that. Bonus, Hazō might be more familiar with Limestone seeing as he came from an aquatic culture.

Most sedimentary stone is Dolomite, which is just limestone with some magnesium thrown in. Maybe this is why most stone feels impure?

So yeah, Limestone hoping for pure Calcite could be a good starting point for 3d seals

Edit: apparently Calcite deposits are known as *beef*. I learned this and felt the need to share.

eaglejarl · Dec 6, 2022

Someone linked back to chapter 223 so I went back and re-browsed. I found the following rather prophetic and/or funny nuggets that I thought I would bring forward from 2018 to the modern day:

Noumero said:
(The only thing that could make it better is if it turns out that Hana's replacement diplomat [from Mist to Leaf] is one Mori Ami.)

Cariyaga said:
You know, given how Ami went against her clan head recently, it's entirely possible that they might want to get rid of her for a while...

Langevin said:
On that note, I'll reiterate that wingmanning [Noburi] with Ami makes hella sense and gives us a chance at escaping Keiko's blast radius.

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Interested-Idiot-Immortal

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