Pretty optimistic of you to suggest.Moral of the story the hivemind cant handale 2 tasks at once unless they are inflicting critical existence faliure.
I did not say inflicting critical existence faliure on a enemy.
"Mm-hmm," Ami said. "Ami would not be impressed by that argument. First, it's a moot point because if she hadn't offered Orochimaru something really good, she wouldn't have made it out of the compound alive, and nobody would've got anything. Failing to follow through once she was out? Probably even worse.
While I do acknowledge that this is something we can and should bring up to Mari, I do not agree that it would be a useful topic to bring up to Ami; she's already acknowledged that she spares zero fucks when it comes to Kei's safety, even at the cost of her agency.The other bit I thought might be useful- If Ami 'destroys' Mari (in whatever form that might take) because of this, it could cripple her relationship with Kei going forward. Forevermore, Kei will have to worry if putting herself in danger or even working alongside allies in a dangerous situation is going to trigger Ami's retribution if something goes wrong. Kei could end up asking herself if she afford to be honest with Ami at all times or will Ami ignore her wishes and decide who gets punished regardless of Kei's feelings on the matter again.
We can always weaponise it. Don't listen to the voice of reason.I did not say inflicting critical existence faliure on a enemy.
<3 Don't worry, it was clear.CCnJ: This is a joke, that is meant to be a joke, and is only a joke
That got left in the post by mistake and was edited out a bit ago. SC applies only to base.Does GM-had-fun XP count towards the XP award considered for SC XP? We've been assuming it didn't, and only the base XP counted.
No, @KoalityGuy makes a good point. At the bottom of that slippery slope is a world where people avoid becoming close to Kei lest her obsessive sister condemns them to death for failing to meet an impossible standard, and a world where Kei fears befriending anyone for the very same reason. If Ami preferred Kei's safety to her happiness so much she'd want that, she would've kidnapped her as you'd suggested before.While I do acknowledge that this is something we can and should bring up to Mari, I do not agree that it would be a useful topic to bring up to Ami; she's already acknowledged that she spares zero fucks when it comes to Kei's safety, even at the cost of her agency.
My model of Ami tells me that she...doesn't care?No, @KoalityGuy makes a good point. At the bottom of that slippery slope is a world where people avoid becoming close to Kei lest her obsessive sister condemns them to death for failing to meet an impossible standard, and a world where Kei fears befriending anyone for the very same reason. If Ami preferred Kei's safety to her happiness so much she'd want that, she would've kidnapped her as was suggested before.
In what sense? As in, how is she justifying not caring?
"Recall that Ami's concern is Mari's initial act of sacrifice. It does not help your case for Ami to think, 'Mari was prepared to risk Kei's life with only a 70% probability that she would die'. Nor 50%. Nor 30%. There is no plausible number that Ami would consider acceptable, insofar as it is only through deliberate mental discipline that she accepts Kei's right to risk her own life by serving as a ninja. Nor is it permissible for Mari to believe that there is such a number.
Done, although I said both hers and Snowflake's.I'd personally like to do some framing of the conversation. I can see Kei easily becoming sidetracked, and I think that how we present the conversation is very important. I understand that wordcount is a constraint. However, I think something like 'tone: making space for Kei's feelings, but ultimately focusing on delivering information' might be valuable.
Changed to 'destroyed' since that what they keep saying.Can we take the word 'murderous' out? If Ami then says 'whoa, I wasn't going to kill her, just disgrace her!' then I'd honestly expect Kei to cling to that. We want Mari unharmed by Ami.
I personally want to keep the more specific "Do you want Ami to destroy anyone she perceives as a risk to you?" because I don't think Kei will let herself think it if we don't say it directly. She has massive cognitive dissonance around this subject.I'd also like to simply ask Kei what she wants. Ami has declared an intended course of action. Does it align with what Kei actually wants? I'm almost tempted to try to lightly frame this as Ami interfering with Kei's life, but I don't think we'll get much traction there for a variety of reasons.
That refers to the 'contract' he proposed to Ami, I changed the word to 'contract' to be more clear.The 'if Hazo were to make a deal' section reads a bit strangely. Could you explain what you're trying to say? I'm not really clear.
That's fair, I kinda agree with that, so done.I would really, really like to take this part out. For one, I don't think it's actually true. If we put Mari in the exact same position again, I expect that there are good odds she'd do the exact same things.
I included a shortened version for now, can be expanded later if necessary.I would - wordcount permitting - like to throw something in there where we clearly instruct Mari that self-sacrifice is not an acceptable solution to this problem, both due to the fact that she represents a huge quantity of Goketsu's power and because we love and care about her and because we refuse to allow bad things to happen to members of our clan.
I don't actually want to commit to a contract. I do however want to bring it up with everyone so they understand just how serious the situation is.
[X] In Which Hazou Proposes Catastrophic Damage As Damage Control
Word Count: 394
- Relay Hazou's conversation with Ami to Kei and Snowflake. Make space for their feelings, but stay focused on delivering information.
- Hazou respects Kei's choice to cut ties, so she's welcome to remain uninvolved if she prefers. However, he'd like to discuss the situation with Snowflake, if she is amenable. He wants to know what she and Kei would like to do, and how to best satisfy their, the clan's, and his own preferences.
- Hazou would prefer no contract be struck at all, and Ami be talked out of 'destroying' Mari.
- Notably, Ami stated that she'll prioritize Kei's safety over Kei's agency/desires; that'd need to be accounted for.
- Kei, do you want Ami to destroy Mari? Should she do this to anyone she thinks might pose the slightest risk to you?
- Could we persuade Ami Mari's survival increases Kei's odds? Orchestrating a Leaf jounin's death could put Leaf and Mist at war, or cause internal strife between clans.
- If Hazou has to make a contract with Ami:
- Hazou commits to the deal.
- If Mari sacrifices Kei in any capacity, Hazou employs his commitment.
- If Hazou reneges, Ami uses all her resources to destroy the Gouketsu, regardless of consequences.
- Severe enough that Mari wouldn't sacrifice Kei under any circumstances...
- Severe enough Ami would believe Mari won't sacrifice Kei.
- Palatable to the rest of the clan — Hazou won't commit without their consent.
- Possibilities:
- Pledging the Gouketsu Clan's resources to the Hyuuga.
- Staging an attack on Orochimaru's Basement.
- Hazou becomes Ami's vassal, directly.
- Relay Ami and Snowflake conversations to Akane, Noburi, Mari, and Kagome
- Was this a play to make Hazou more Ami-aligned? Is any kind of contract actually a viable deterrent? Hazou is concerned of an outside party taking advantage of it.
- It seems that Ami is projecting her inaction with Kei's bullies onto Mari's actions, and she essentially declared herself voluntarily irrational on the subject.
- Hazou expects Mari'd be opposed to indulging Ami at all, and might try to handle it on her own, social-spec to social-spec. Hazou trusts her judgement, but he'd greatly appreciate if she looped him into anything she does, preferably beforedoing it. A showdown between the two could have catastrophic consequences regardless of the victor.
- Sacrificing yourself again isn't preferred, for the record.
- Akane, Mari, you've chatted with Ami often. Do you think Hazou handled things correctly?
Hm. I don't think Ami would be willing to turn Kei's life into a living hell like that. If she were, why would she carve any exceptions at all? Why didn't they disappear into the wilderness at some point prior to the quest's beginning?Edit: To your edit, I would point out that she has (barely) made an exception to Kei's position as a ninja under the rule of her Kage, and I would question her ability and/or willingness to carve out another exception.
Again, I think that's self-evidently false.Ami doesn't love Keiko in terms of Storge, the love of family.
She loves Keiko in terms of Mania, the love that prioritizes ownership of the loved one with zero regard for their physical or mental well being.
Akane is probably the better choice since she's friends with Ami too@Shrooms I feel that the Kei/Snowflake conversation should be had with another person with at least minimal investment in Mari's well-being. May I suggest Hazou bring Akane or Noburi with him?
@Shrooms I feel that the Kei/Snowflake conversation should be had with another person with at least minimal investment in Mari's well-being. May I suggest Hazou bring Akane or Noburi with him?
Noburi also makes sense -- the original kids of Team Uplift (though at that point may be worth bringing Kagome as well?). We still don't know Akane or Kagome's takes though, so it's a bit of a wildcard.Akane is probably the better choice since she's friends with Ami too
Akane and Noburi for now seems reasonable, I'll change it if anyone strongly prefers Kagome's additional presence in the first scene instead of just the second. Meta-wise vel doesn't exactly love writing Kagome thoughNoburi also makes sense -- the original kids of Team Uplift (though at that point may be worth bringing Kagome as well?). We still don't know Akane or Kagome's takes though, so it's a bit of a wildcard.
Speaking of Kagome, I have been getting a concerning feeling about how he will react to learning about the affair in its entirety.Akane and Noburi for now seems reasonable, I'll change it if anyone strongly prefers Kagome's additional presence in the first scene instead of just the second. Meta-wise vel doesn't exactly love writing Kagome though
>Kagome blows up Ami out of nowhereSpeaking of Kagome, I have been getting a concerning feeling about how he will react to learning about the affair in its entirety.
Honestly, poor Kagome. Can we finally let him explode some stinker? They all keep coming and doing things they should really actually no-joke be exploded for, and we keep telling him to suppress his very natural reaction and get over himself. And the worst part is that we really can't let him, of all people, do it to Ami, because then we'd never be able to get away with it. Poor Kagome.Speaking of Kagome, I have been getting a concerning feeling about how he will react to learning about the affair in its entirety.
We should make sure he lets off some steam before he signs the Arachnid Scroll, so that he doesn't 'accidentally' Kumokogo.Honestly, poor Kagome. Can we finally let him explode some stinker? They all keep coming and doing things they should really actually no-joke be exploded for, and we keep telling him to suppress his very natural reaction and get over himself. Poor Kagome.
I wonder if Candoru still needs disciplining?We should make sure he lets off some steam before he signs the Arachnid Scroll, so that he doesn't 'accidentally' Kumokogo.