Moral of the story the hivemind cant handale 2 tasks at once unless they are inflicting critical existence faliure.
 
"Mm-hmm," Ami said. "Ami would not be impressed by that argument. First, it's a moot point because if she hadn't offered Orochimaru something really good, she wouldn't have made it out of the compound alive, and nobody would've got anything. Failing to follow through once she was out? Probably even worse.

I had wanted to quote this earlier but forgot. While reading the update I thought Hazō was going to bring this up and I was a little surprised when he didn't. Ami basically admitted she was in a position similar to Mari and made the same decision. The only difference in outcome is that Mari got out without actually sacrificing anyone and without actually risking anyone but herself. I doubt it would have been constructive to make an adversarial comment like this (with very different stakes in play from Ami's POV) but I did expect it or something like it to come from Hazō.

The other bit I thought might be useful- If Ami 'destroys' Mari (in whatever form that might take) because of this, it could cripple her relationship with Kei going forward. Forevermore, Kei will have to worry if putting herself in danger or even working alongside allies in a dangerous situation is going to trigger Ami's retribution if something goes wrong. Kei could end up asking herself if she afford to be honest with Ami at all times or will Ami ignore her wishes and decide who gets punished regardless of Kei's feelings on the matter again.
 
The other bit I thought might be useful- If Ami 'destroys' Mari (in whatever form that might take) because of this, it could cripple her relationship with Kei going forward. Forevermore, Kei will have to worry if putting herself in danger or even working alongside allies in a dangerous situation is going to trigger Ami's retribution if something goes wrong. Kei could end up asking herself if she afford to be honest with Ami at all times or will Ami ignore her wishes and decide who gets punished regardless of Kei's feelings on the matter again.
While I do acknowledge that this is something we can and should bring up to Mari, I do not agree that it would be a useful topic to bring up to Ami; she's already acknowledged that she spares zero fucks when it comes to Kei's safety, even at the cost of her agency.
 
While I do acknowledge that this is something we can and should bring up to Mari, I do not agree that it would be a useful topic to bring up to Ami; she's already acknowledged that she spares zero fucks when it comes to Kei's safety, even at the cost of her agency.
No, @KoalityGuy makes a good point. At the bottom of that slippery slope is a world where people avoid becoming close to Kei lest her obsessive sister condemns them to death for failing to meet an impossible standard, and a world where Kei fears befriending anyone for the very same reason. If Ami preferred Kei's safety to her happiness so much she'd want that, she would've kidnapped her as you'd suggested before.
 
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No, @KoalityGuy makes a good point. At the bottom of that slippery slope is a world where people avoid becoming close to Kei lest her obsessive sister condemns them to death for failing to meet an impossible standard, and a world where Kei fears befriending anyone for the very same reason. If Ami preferred Kei's safety to her happiness so much she'd want that, she would've kidnapped her as was suggested before.
My model of Ami tells me that she...doesn't care?

Edit: To your edit, I would point out that she has (barely) made an exception to Kei's position as a ninja under the rule of her Kage, and I would question her ability and/or willingness to carve out another exception.
 
In what sense? As in, how is she justifying not caring?
"Recall that Ami's concern is Mari's initial act of sacrifice. It does not help your case for Ami to think, 'Mari was prepared to risk Kei's life with only a 70% probability that she would die'. Nor 50%. Nor 30%. There is no plausible number that Ami would consider acceptable, insofar as it is only through deliberate mental discipline that she accepts Kei's right to risk her own life by serving as a ninja. Nor is it permissible for Mari to believe that there is such a number.
 
I'd personally like to do some framing of the conversation. I can see Kei easily becoming sidetracked, and I think that how we present the conversation is very important. I understand that wordcount is a constraint. However, I think something like 'tone: making space for Kei's feelings, but ultimately focusing on delivering information' might be valuable.
Done, although I said both hers and Snowflake's.
Can we take the word 'murderous' out? If Ami then says 'whoa, I wasn't going to kill her, just disgrace her!' then I'd honestly expect Kei to cling to that. We want Mari unharmed by Ami.
Changed to 'destroyed' since that what they keep saying.
I'd also like to simply ask Kei what she wants. Ami has declared an intended course of action. Does it align with what Kei actually wants? I'm almost tempted to try to lightly frame this as Ami interfering with Kei's life, but I don't think we'll get much traction there for a variety of reasons.
I personally want to keep the more specific "Do you want Ami to destroy anyone she perceives as a risk to you?" because I don't think Kei will let herself think it if we don't say it directly. She has massive cognitive dissonance around this subject.
The 'if Hazo were to make a deal' section reads a bit strangely. Could you explain what you're trying to say? I'm not really clear.
That refers to the 'contract' he proposed to Ami, I changed the word to 'contract' to be more clear.
I would really, really like to take this part out. For one, I don't think it's actually true. If we put Mari in the exact same position again, I expect that there are good odds she'd do the exact same things.
That's fair, I kinda agree with that, so done.
I would - wordcount permitting - like to throw something in there where we clearly instruct Mari that self-sacrifice is not an acceptable solution to this problem, both due to the fact that she represents a huge quantity of Goketsu's power and because we love and care about her and because we refuse to allow bad things to happen to members of our clan.
I included a shortened version for now, can be expanded later if necessary.

I don't actually want to commit to a contract. I do however want to bring it up with everyone so they understand just how serious the situation is.

[X] In Which Hazou Proposes Catastrophic Damage As Damage Control
Word Count: 394
  • Relay Hazou's conversation with Ami to Kei and Snowflake. Make space for their feelings, but stay focused on delivering information.
    • Hazou respects Kei's choice to cut ties, so she's welcome to remain uninvolved if she prefers. However, he'd like to discuss the situation with Snowflake, if she is amenable. He wants to know what she and Kei would like to do, and how to best satisfy their, the clan's, and his own preferences.
    • Hazou would prefer no contract be struck at all, and Ami be talked out of 'destroying' Mari.
      • Notably, Ami stated that she'll prioritize Kei's safety over Kei's agency/desires; that'd need to be accounted for.
        • Kei, do you want Ami to destroy Mari? Should she do this to anyone she thinks might pose the slightest risk to you?
      • Could we persuade Ami Mari's survival increases Kei's odds? Orchestrating a Leaf jounin's death could put Leaf and Mist at war, or cause internal strife between clans.
      • If Hazou has to make a contract with Ami:
        • Hazou commits to the deal.
        • If Mari sacrifices Kei in any capacity, Hazou employs his commitment.
        • If Hazou reneges, Ami uses all her resources to destroy the Gouketsu, regardless of consequences.
        • Severe enough that Mari wouldn't sacrifice Kei under any circumstances...
        • Severe enough Ami would believe Mari won't sacrifice Kei.
        • Palatable to the rest of the clan — Hazou won't commit without their consent.
      • Possibilities:
        • Pledging the Gouketsu Clan's resources to the Hyuuga.
        • Staging an attack on Orochimaru's Basement.
        • Hazou becomes Ami's vassal, directly.
  • Relay Ami and Snowflake conversations to Akane, Noburi, Mari, and Kagome
    • Was this a play to make Hazou more Ami-aligned? Is any kind of contract actually a viable deterrent? Hazou is concerned of an outside party taking advantage of it.
    • It seems that Ami is projecting her inaction with Kei's bullies onto Mari's actions, and she essentially declared herself voluntarily irrational on the subject.
    • Hazou expects Mari'd be opposed to indulging Ami at all, and might try to handle it on her own, social-spec to social-spec. Hazou trusts her judgement, but he'd greatly appreciate if she looped him into anything she does, preferably beforedoing it. A showdown between the two could have catastrophic consequences regardless of the victor.
      • Sacrificing yourself again isn't preferred, for the record.
    • Akane, Mari, you've chatted with Ami often. Do you think Hazou handled things correctly?
 
Ami doesn't love Keiko in terms of Storge, the love of family.
She loves Keiko in terms of Mania, the love that prioritizes ownership of the loved one with zero regard for their physical or mental well being.
 
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@Shrooms I feel that the Kei/Snowflake conversation should be had with another person with at least minimal investment in Mari's well-being. May I suggest Hazou bring Akane or Noburi with him?
 
Edit: To your edit, I would point out that she has (barely) made an exception to Kei's position as a ninja under the rule of her Kage, and I would question her ability and/or willingness to carve out another exception.
Hm. I don't think Ami would be willing to turn Kei's life into a living hell like that. If she were, why would she carve any exceptions at all? Why didn't they disappear into the wilderness at some point prior to the quest's beginning?
Ami doesn't love Keiko in terms of Storge, the love of family.
She loves Keiko in terms of Mania, the love that prioritizes ownership of the loved one with zero regard for their physical or mental well being.
Again, I think that's self-evidently false.
 
[X] Action Plan: Down to Earth Bros
Word Count: 293
  1. Continue summoning training with Kagome.
  2. Patrol the Hyena border per Cannai's instructions.
Bijuu Seals:

Both the Great Seal and Bijuu Seal seem to be designed to house powerful entities. It might be another avenue to explore for repairing the seal. To that end, while Kagome's studying, begin reviewing the Bijuu Seal notes. Assume the Bijuu seals are not something an IN user casually glances at, so before Kagome begins summoning training, have him mark out sections that the seals appear in.

*Get Asuma's permission to share with Kagome*

Earth Shaper:

With the bottom of the butte cracked, it would be prudent to practice manipulating more difficult material for repair. Fusing, seperating, and smoothing out stones compromised of marble, clay, earth and more are acheivable. Go further. Push Earth Shaper to the limit by increasing by attempting to do the same with harder stones, slag, low quality metal ores, and mid to high quality metal ores.
  • Prep:
  1. Ask Gaku to purchase the ores.
  • Test:
  1. Find out which material can be made into smooth spheres and obloids.
  2. Make more accurate Great Seal replicas available to Leaf Seal Masters (Include cracks).
Chakra Metal?:

Can chakra metal be produced from standard kunai and shuriken sets? If not, find out how earthshaper interacts with copper and iron ores of increasing purity.
  • Prep:
  1. Use remaining material from Earth shaper practice.
  2. If needed, increase the purity of iron or copper ores as much as possible. Cut off the undesirable material.
  • Test:
  1. Use the chakra saturation stage of Earth Shaper to mimic the exposure of metal to a chakra rich environment. Test this out on both kunai and shuriken. Saturate the slag and ores in your possession as well.
  2. Invite Noburi to observe, give advice, or intervene if something goes wrong.
 
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@Shrooms I feel that the Kei/Snowflake conversation should be had with another person with at least minimal investment in Mari's well-being. May I suggest Hazou bring Akane or Noburi with him?
Akane is probably the better choice since she's friends with Ami too
Noburi also makes sense -- the original kids of Team Uplift (though at that point may be worth bringing Kagome as well?). We still don't know Akane or Kagome's takes though, so it's a bit of a wildcard.
 
Noburi also makes sense -- the original kids of Team Uplift (though at that point may be worth bringing Kagome as well?). We still don't know Akane or Kagome's takes though, so it's a bit of a wildcard.
Akane and Noburi for now seems reasonable, I'll change it if anyone strongly prefers Kagome's additional presence in the first scene instead of just the second. Meta-wise vel doesn't exactly love writing Kagome though
 
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Akane and Noburi for now seems reasonable, I'll change it if anyone strongly prefers Kagome's additional presence in the first scene instead of just the second. Meta-wise vel doesn't exactly love writing Kagome though
Speaking of Kagome, I have been getting a concerning feeling about how he will react to learning about the affair in its entirety.
 
Speaking of Kagome, I have been getting a concerning feeling about how he will react to learning about the affair in its entirety.
Honestly, poor Kagome. Can we finally let him explode some stinker? They all keep coming and doing things they should really actually no-joke be exploded for, and we keep telling him to suppress his very natural reaction and get over himself. And the worst part is that we really can't let him, of all people, do it to Ami, because then we'd never be able to get away with it. Poor Kagome.
 
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Honestly, poor Kagome. Can we finally let him explode some stinker? They all keep coming and doing things they should really actually no-joke be exploded for, and we keep telling him to suppress his very natural reaction and get over himself. Poor Kagome.
We should make sure he lets off some steam before he signs the Arachnid Scroll, so that he doesn't 'accidentally' Kumokogo.
 
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