"I am severing ties with Mari, Hazō. Perhaps, in time, I will be able to see her as I see Mai or Reo, whose emotional weight is insufficient to impact on my activities at the Gōketsu compound. Or perhaps Mari and I, rational beings both, will come to some arrangement where I can visit without crossing paths with her unless clan business explicitly demands it. At the limits of my imagination, perhaps one day we will both be mature enough to become pleasant acquaintances, as former lovers might. Until then, however, I fear I must refuse your invitation. Snowflake, do as you will. I would prefer not to be alone, but if Tenten or Shikamaru are available, perhaps we can while away an hour or two at a café within tether range of the Gōketsu compound."

Snowflake shook her head. "I… I don't know what I want. Not yet. However, even if my intent was to plumb the very depths of forgiveness, this is not a mood in which to face her, for both our sakes. Hazō, at some point soon I would like to thank you properly for your role in this series of events, but for the moment I feel it would be better for both of us to be somewhere… emotionally safe."

"No? Then I am but your tool, bereft of my own agency and at the mercy of your personal risk assessment. I do not deny your skill at navigating crises, Mari—indeed I envy it—but I hope you understand why I will never be able to trust you again."

"I understand why my life means nothing to you," Snowflake spoke up as Kei fell silent. "It's a shallow, weightless life, and ours is a shallow, weightless bond. But Kei is supposed to mean the world to you!" Snowflake's hands clenched into fists. "All she wants, all she ever wanted, was for you to love her for who she was—not a tool, not a way to be a good person, not a jigsaw piece to fit into your picture of your perfect world, but her, this precious, fragile individual. You could not even do that. 'Team Mum' couldn't see her needs if seeing them meant having to face herself for real.

"What have you done about it, Mari? How far have you gone to fix what you broke, you, who aren't locked in by the Sage-damned Frozen Skein or by the mind of a girl who doesn't understand people or how they work? You are not perfect—I understand that, and I have no idea of your true capabilities because I am stuck seeing you through a borrowed prism of adoration—but you had one job. Did you have to do this? Could you not have stepped in Orochimaru's path yourself? Could you not have tempted him with Truth Lost in the Fog, a unique, extraordinary bribe that would probably not require anyone to be dissected? Could you not have drawn his attention by asking him about his research, or the Basement, or Jiraiya, or Akatsuki, or whatever? Yes, it would have been less reliable than throwing the mouse to the snake. He might have rebuffed you, even lashed out if you were persistent. But it was…" For a second, Snowflake choked up. "It was what a mother would have done!"

"Snowflake, enough."

Kei did not want to be defended. There was no point, and it was too late. Kei had not chosen to bare her soul, and though she was moved—perhaps even a little shaken—by Snowflake's actions, it was not Snowflake's place to do so for her.

"Mari, as part of your optimal scenario, you chose to sacrifice my trust in you. I do not have the power to undo that sacrifice any more than I do the other events that transpired, even should I conclude it to be the rational course of action. Our relationship is no longer a problem to be solved, or a scale to be rebalanced through apologies and atonement. It is over."

Kei walked away, and Snowflake with her.

At the last moment, before Mari was too far away to hear, Kei had two final words she could not make herself not say.

"Be well."
Kei may have decided to sever bonds with Mari, but Snowflake hasn't decided yet. If I'm reading this second quote right, it appears like she's leaning against the idea. Velorien specifically emphasized that Kei did not explain herself because she had decided to sever ties. In contrast, Snowflake explained not just her own feelings but those of Kei as well.

I think there's a good chance Snowflake would be willing to try reconnecting with Mari. There might even be a chance that Snowflake wants Kei to reconnect with Mari, from how much she cared about explaining Kei's perspective.
 
I don't either, for the record. That's why I'd like to loop in the rest of the family and get their opinion. My plan doesn't commit to anything.
It centralizes the idea as the main way out.

I wonder if this is what it feels like to be Ren? Realizing that Ami has completely outmaneuvered you and now you need to choose between equally-bad options, with your downfall (or Mari's demise) at the end of every path.
 
It centralizes the idea as the main way out.
If you'd like, we can brainstorm more alternatives with the Goketsu? I've already included the possibility we convince Ami that in a pure numbers game, Mari living actually increases Kei's survival odds, though there may be better ways to argue it.

I think the point of the deal is that we don't actually need to do what we're promising, it just disincentivizes Mari from sacrificing Kei. Otherwise, it should ideally just never come into effect.

EDIT: I am also hoping Snowflake/Kei sees how Catastrophic the deal could be and it wins them over a bit.
 
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I loved this update from start to finish. I really enjoy well written 'social smart' characters who can manipulate others without those people having to suddenly become oblivious/stupid.

The contract:
"A good example would be a legal precommitment to hand over all Gōketsu assets to the Hyūga in the event that a clan member makes a deliberate choice to endanger Kei's life without her consent, including severe risk to her health, or a deliberate choice to allow such endangerment, as judged by Mori Ami, or, should she be unavailable, by her named representatives."

I am surprised anyone is actually considering agreeing to the contract that was proposed.
Even assuming that "Gōketsu assets" doesn't include stuff like their vote on the council or any other legal status/rights and only applies to items more reasonable considered exchangeable/fungible it includes stuff like Summoning Scrolls, the estate ground (are civilians assets?), adoption tickets, sealing notes, contracts, notes/journals/scrolls, and basically everything else of value.
Keep in mind that it we could easily violate the contract through no action of our own and anyone who becomes aware of it becomes motivated to pull on this giant lever we've given them. It's arguably even in Ami's best interest to cause us to violate it as soon as possible because the contract as proposed is a huge incentive for anyone who wants to see the Gōketsu fail to take aim at Kei. Doubly so if she's been gaining influence over the Hyūga this whole time.

Somewhat separate from that, I am against the idea of Hazō owing Ami or having to prove anything to her as a result of all this in the first place. Mari's "initial act of sacrifice" was actually to sacrifice herself while Hazō escaped with Kei. The bait she offered up wasn't even real- as we saw when Orochimaru was confronted with the fact that Kei's unique clones was due to the SC/Bloodline interaction here:
"If I may offer a point of information," Snowflake said nervously. "While it is true that I am cognitively independent of my progenitor, that is solely because the Mori bloodline renders them incapable of agency. Since bloodlines are not copied by the Shadow Clone jutsu, my mentation is of a more baseline-human style. In short, our independence would not be useful to anyone who lacked a mind-crippling bloodline."

Orochimaru studied her carefully and then grimaced sourly. "How unfortunate."
I think Hazō brought this up in the update too, but I wanted to repeat it because to me it hits the crux of the issue at hand. Using Kei as bait was nearly the same as just making something up completely. Mari put Kei in less risk of becoming snake food than she was in before Mari took action.


Something else to keep in mind is that Ami is a member of a foreign nation's military. In the real world we'd be required to report this attempt by her to gain leverage over our organization immediately. Any kind of social subversion, blackmailing, coercion, or similar action taken by a foreign power (even an 'ally') is a very aggressive action and exactly the kind of thing the Hokage should be made aware of. He might not decide to take action or direct us to take any specific action, but it would be our duty to keep him informed of any threats. You'd want to report it in a way that doesn't make Hazō or the clan look weak (unable to take care of their own business) and doesn't make it look like we're running to Asuma with every problem we have (Hazō can't lead). It should be done in manner similar to how we might report some other discrete information such as a secret jutsu or bloodline demonstrated by an ally. When you consider that Ami just came from allegedly toppling Mist's leadership through social engineering, not reporting her actions and attempts to gain leverage and influence in Leaf could be seen as treason-adjacent.
 
"A contract," Hazō affirmed. "We can promise that if Mari tries to sacrifice Kei again, the consequences will be so terrible that it'll be worse than whatever Mari stands to get out of it. More terrible than letting me die, for example. Since I don't think Mari intends to ever sacrifice Kei, even without a contract, I'm comfortable giving terms you'd feel confident with in return for you not hurting Mari now."

"And what can you offer me?" Ami asked. "What's so awful that it is 100% guaranteed to override Mari's instincts to protect her family at the cost of mine?"
"Hazō," Ami said with icy patience, "the only guarantee for Mari not to sacrifice Kei to save you is if the consequences for everyone would be far worse than your death. Now, it's a good suggestion, and I'm open to negotiation, but bear in mind that this time, you're responsible, not just Mari. If she or anyone else sacrifices Kei because you didn't do enough to stop them, I will take everything I have, without exception, and use it to utterly annihilate you, them, and the Gōketsu. It is in your interest to give the clan compelling motivation never to think of doing it, and based on Mari's actions, fear of me isn't good enough for that.
[χ] Action Plan: Kill Every Mori Bloodline Holder Except Kei
 
SC Training: Kei is getting 1.4x, Akane at 1.0x:

Ch 483 (which is technically no longer possible to get SC XP for since 484 was posted, but it was an out-of-cycle update so I hope that gets handwaved) has 3 base XP:

Kei: +4.2 XP
Akane: +3 XP

Ch 484 has 5 base XP:

Kei: +7 XP
Akane: +5 XP.
 
"Hazō," Ami said with icy patience, "the only guarantee for Mari not to sacrifice Kei to save you is if the consequences for everyone would be far worse than your death. Now, it's a good suggestion, and I'm open to negotiation, but bear in mind that this time, you're responsible, not just Mari. If she or anyone else sacrifices Kei because you didn't do enough to stop them, I will take everything I have, without exception, and use it to utterly annihilate you, them, and the Gōketsu. It is in your interest to give the clan compelling motivation never to think of doing it, and based on Mari's actions, fear of me isn't good enough for that.
We cannot keep this deal. Ami wants the impossible.
 
I think the point of the deal is that we don't actually need to do what we're promising, it just disincentivizes Mari from sacrificing Kei. Otherwise, it should ideally just never come into effect.
I think this is the problem. If we make the contract the main thing Hazou bets on, Ami will have successfully shifted Hazou's point of view from "It is unacceptable that you destroy Mari" to "It is unacceptable that you destroy Mari... unless these certain unlikely conditions are met".
 
I think this is the problem. If we make the contract the main thing Hazou bets on, Ami will have successfully shifted Hazou's point of view from "It is unacceptable that you destroy Mari" to "It is unacceptable that you destroy Mari... unless these certain unlikely conditions are met".
Related to this: If Ami realizes that Hazou's opinion of Mari can shift successfully from "cannot destroy ever" to "cannot destroy ALMOST ever", what's to say he'll do the same to Kei at some point, if some sufficiently-convincing argument pops up?
 
Related to this: If Ami realizes that Hazou's opinion of Mari can shift successfully from "cannot destroy ever" to "cannot destroy ALMOST ever", what's to say he'll do the same to Kei at some point, if some sufficiently-convincing argument pops up?
This would be a good thing to say to Ami, though she'd probably say something like "but you're clearly okay with Kei being destroyed sometimes, as evidenced by you being okay with Mari's actions even though they kill Kei in some timelines."
 
This would be a good thing to say to Ami, though she'd probably say something like "but you're clearly okay with Kei being destroyed sometimes, as evidenced by you being okay with Mari's actions even though they kill Kei in some timelines."
HAZOU: By this reasoning I was already okay with this happening, since we don't make violent objections to Asuma (or Jiraiya) sending Kei out on missions even though they kill her in some timelines.
 
HAZOU: By this reasoning I was already okay with this happening, since we don't make violent objections to Asuma (or Jiraiya) sending Kei out on missions even though they kill her in some timelines.
Ami: "You're still making claims about probabilities -- I'm no happier about the Hokage risking Kei's life, something which I continue to struggle with since any risk is too much. Stopping Mari from doing the same is actually within my capabilities right now."

This is useful for me.
 
Ami: "You're still making claims about probabilities -- I'm no happier about the Hokage risking Kei's life, something which I continue to struggle with since any risk is too much. Stopping Mari from doing the same is actually within my capabilities right now."

This is useful for me.
HAZOU: If you were putting Kei's safety above literally anything else, you would have kidnapped her and went rogue into the middle of fuckoff nowhere, where neither chakra monsters nor ninja could pose even the slightest threat to her safety.
 
Ami: "Given that that would even work, maybe I should have if I didn't value Kei's own agency so much. And before you ask, I recognize that removing Mari is violating Kei's agency on how to respond, but I'm allowed to say that there's a difference between killing someone Kei hates and kidnapping Kei to the middle of nowhere in terms of violating her agency. Kei will genuinely be better off without Mari in the picture."
 
Ami: "Given that that would even work, maybe I should have if I didn't value Kei's own agency so much. And before you ask, I recognize that removing Mari is violating Kei's agency on how to respond, but I'm allowed to say that there's a difference between killing someone Kei hates and kidnapping Kei to the middle of nowhere in terms of violating her agency. Kei will genuinely be better off without Mari in the picture."
The only real chance we have here is Kei telling Ami that she disagrees, and that if Ami does this, she'll just be another person trying to control Kei and rob her of her agency.

Kei has gotten better at telling people to piss off. Hopefully she shows up.

If not, we might need to start evaluating Kei as a threat - at least, someone risky to be around.
 
[X] Lore Update

It centralizes the idea as the main way out.
Yeah, the plan wouldn't just resolve with Hazou laying out the facts and the options, he'd be approaching it with an opinion on what to do, and that would be shaped by what we put in the plan. Focusing on the contract idea in the plan would very likely result in Hazou focusing on it in the update instead of alternate options like 'Mari, is it feasible for you to invite Ami over for some soup?'
 
HAZOU: If you were putting Kei's safety above literally anything else, you would have kidnapped her and went rogue into the middle of fuckoff nowhere, where neither chakra monsters nor ninja could pose even the slightest threat to her safety.
I think there's an argument to be made for the purpose raising Kei's risk.

For example:
Kei is on a mission with Konoha Ninja A (KNA) and KNB. While on the missions, the Konoha team runs into a team of three rock ninja and begin to fight. During this fight, KNA has to decide between helping Kei or KNB. Since KNB is weaker than Kei, they go to help KNB.

Should Ami now have a vendetta against KNA? Should they try to ruin them and all they stand for? Or should she attempt to destroy the Rock ninja for putting Kei in this situation to begin with?

Let's say that somehow, Ami time travels to before the mission took place, knowing what it was that was going to happen. Sure there's a million things she could do, but when you directly compare A) Ensuring KNA helps Kei over helping KNB and B) Eliminating the Rock ninja, option B removes the greatest risk to Kei. Even if KNA goes to help Kei, they are still fighting enemy ninja and Kei may still die. If, however, Ami takes actions to hamper or otherwise destroy the Rock ninja, then Kei would not have to fight them.

tl;dr Ami is taking sub-optimal actions to reduce the risk to Kei. Even if Mari cares more for Hazo, she still cares for Kei and doesn't want her to be harmed. Ami should instead be taking actions against Oro.
 
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