Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Xilentxium
Existential Crisis Management
- Location
- Temperate Regions
Right, time for plan S: Blow Up The Moon
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Add it ROTP, you know you want to...
That's really the only reason I can't support your splinter of my plan. Objectively it makes sense from a game theory standpoint to send someone else to talk to naruto and tsunade if we thought it would improve the odds they help, but I WANT to see Hazou do it
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Look, Hazou has a long way to go to become a proper shonen protagonist, so we need a proper training regimen of heartfelt speeches before plunging into certain death.Add it ROTP, you know you want to...
That's really the only reason I can't support your splinter of my plan. Objectively it makes sense from a game theory standpoint to send someone else to talk to naruto and tsunade if we thought it would improve the odds they help, but I WANT to see Hazou do it
- Location
- Italy
Add it ROTP, you know you want to...
That's really the only reason I can't support your splinter of my plan. Objectively it makes sense from a game theory standpoint to send someone else to talk to naruto and tsunade if we thought it would improve the odds they help, but I WANT to see Hazou do it
i can't vote for any plan that doesn't have "Give all your secret ideas to Kagome", i want Akane with all of Hazou's hypothetical seals. It's simply a matter of rule of Cool.
The "Asuma, do something about the Great Seal if we die" would be nice too.
Eisenhelm
gran dutch of douchery
- Location
- Colombia
Why not invent flak then ? A hollow clay cilinder reinforced whit 5 seal barriers to remain stable, loaded whit tags (ideally tags that can be activated by means other than timer) to propel a grape explosive like the ones Kagome makes.
Claim it as a clan secret and you just improved our value ti leaf.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean sure, I can toss that in. Pretty sure Kagome would get those regardless/Hazou has already disclosed many of his ideas but no harm in specifying
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Really not a fan of how the current plans deal with Orochimaru. They're rewarding him for bully behavior, instead of teaching him and forcing him to seek mutually beneficial solutions.
How does it look like now? Oro shows up, sees something that interests him. Tries to take it, we flee. We go to the Hokage, we're denied protection (Oro can infer that) and so we have no choice but to give him what he wants. He wins for doing what he did, unambiguously so. We get no protection from him afterwards, no-one gets any protection. Indeed, it clearly signals that he could've just kidnapped and lethally dissected us and would've gotten away with it, and he'll actually do that the next time he gets curious about someone else. Shikamaru, Ino, Hinata.
We need to frame it as a fair deal, even if one he forced on us, and not as us giving in to his demands. He needs to pay us for what we'd be giving up, it needs to cost him something, and we need to punish him for his previous behaviour by demanding him to pay more to compensate for it.
And if he doesn't agree to that, we need to fucking kill ourselves. Detonate a high-yield explosive seal at point-blank range, irrevocably destroy what he wants rather than giving it to him. Make cooperation the only way for him to get it.
I'll write up the plan shortly.
It does. Or, rather, seeking some kind of compensation improves our (and everyone else's) long-term position with regards to him.
How does it look like now? Oro shows up, sees something that interests him. Tries to take it, we flee. We go to the Hokage, we're denied protection (Oro can infer that) and so we have no choice but to give him what he wants. He wins for doing what he did, unambiguously so. We get no protection from him afterwards, no-one gets any protection. Indeed, it clearly signals that he could've just kidnapped and lethally dissected us and would've gotten away with it, and he'll actually do that the next time he gets curious about someone else. Shikamaru, Ino, Hinata.
We need to frame it as a fair deal, even if one he forced on us, and not as us giving in to his demands. He needs to pay us for what we'd be giving up, it needs to cost him something, and we need to punish him for his previous behaviour by demanding him to pay more to compensate for it.
And if he doesn't agree to that, we need to fucking kill ourselves. Detonate a high-yield explosive seal at point-blank range, irrevocably destroy what he wants rather than giving it to him. Make cooperation the only way for him to get it.
I'll write up the plan shortly.
Last edited:
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I just wanna say fuck Asuma specifically for this line
We gave him a plan that went off flawlessly, helped him out of a losing position he had inflicted on himself, killed tons of his enemies, had zero casualties, obtained a ton of intelligence and got Leaf a priceless artifact and he wants to bag on us for that. Fuck you Asuma. I can't wait till we can put you to the sword through FOOM
We gave him a plan that went off flawlessly, helped him out of a losing position he had inflicted on himself, killed tons of his enemies, had zero casualties, obtained a ton of intelligence and got Leaf a priceless artifact and he wants to bag on us for that. Fuck you Asuma. I can't wait till we can put you to the sword through FOOM
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
[x] Action Plan: we don't have to be dissected if there is someone to do it for us.
Seems like a well put-together plan, and I really want to get more on Hinata's good side. The last thing we need right now is any conflict with the Hyuga, and Hinata just threw us a life-saving bone. I say we use this chance to start extending an olive branch, even if we don't have the time to do more than a letter.
Seems like a well put-together plan, and I really want to get more on Hinata's good side. The last thing we need right now is any conflict with the Hyuga, and Hinata just threw us a life-saving bone. I say we use this chance to start extending an olive branch, even if we don't have the time to do more than a letter.
Eisenhelm
gran dutch of douchery
- Location
- Colombia
He meant the thing they did just that day. You know, send orochimaru to isan.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
Let's get creative
Right, so you know how Usamatsu's Glorious Life-Saving Purifier absorbs air in a cone in front of it? I figure if we can make a seal that doesn't release the air in front of it but about 1m behind (or keeps it in, if it's easier to make large storage than offset release) but very quickly stores the air a few cm in front of it over and over we could put them on airborne MEW constructs and accelerate them massively - Vacuum Step style.
Are the Hagoromo straight enough to justify their implementation and sacrifice in the structure? HDK but our paid specialists may know. What we need above all is stability. And not pinpoint precision eternal stability in any wind from any height - we only need a very heavy structure to not spin the wrong way while it falls for a little below 30 seconds with overwhelming vertical forces.
²: HDK that but in retrospect that may aid even with detection at night if some missiles go fast enough they'd light up otherwise. Well, fighting air pressure he surely knows from travelling upwind so even that makes sense.
Of course, the two major benefits are: (1) we implemented an idea Hazō already had and which was shot down by Orochimaru, (2) we make Kagome-sensei proud by following in his footsteps weaponising the storage of air!
Sure, sure, the seal can perhaps be used as a Poor Man's Vacuum Step too. But "boom, squish" takes precedence.
DRAWBACK: Shikaku's ghost will hate us. We do not have a counter. Actually, if anyone thinks it's a good idea to put that in a plan, I suggest we consult with Shikamaru first about possible counters (wind? solve the chakra dispersion problem?), risk vs reward, etc. The only solace we have for now is that this would leave no trace other than healthy craters. Reverse engineering the means will be much harder, and when we win the war (through this means or others), well, the others will be weak enough that we can develop better countermeasures before they get any funny ideas. Rock has many talented sealmasters I'm told, but they also do not want to be Whirlpool 2. Neither do we, so let's also keep the whole affair on the D.L. hmm? Max opsec, hush hush code plutonium ultraviolet.
Vacuum Meteor Seal:
- You'd need a bit of practice to find the perfect height for damage since the constructs will still unpop after about 30 seconds... Otherwise storage seal real rock but it'll be a pain. Ideally here's how I think we could make it work:
- You'd just carve that seal on a plank and hold it straight
- Someone casts MEW as you activate the seal
- They should make a nice little granite cross or similar standardised shape that'll be aerodynamically advantageous¹, then buh-bye. Think a "+" shape (or screw shape if possible - unsure given MEW makes prisms but maybe higher levels or better techniques some other Leaf-nin have can do great) or whatever helps stability - the last thing we want is for the structure to get into a flat spin or similar nonsense, interesting though it would be to watch it simply won't be useful).
- Since they'd be chakra constructs, they'd disappear after the (potentially colossal) impact, and the seal should be completely impossible to retrieve let alone identify and reverse-engineer.
- The MEW construct would be constantly accelerated by several forces - not that Hazō would know about allof them but this is what makes the thing work, at least on paper:
- gravity of course
- above air pressure (now not fighting below air pressure, which is the main force in slowing down and heating up meteors²)
- the constant new air that pops just right on top of the MEW construct (because of the standardised size!) also pushing down (adding to the pressure and partly compensating for all the weird fluid mechanics things that happen after a missile goes through the air, especially such a big one (inrushing air, dynamically evolving pressure, friction, vortices, yadda yad-the frick-DA), by just adding more air which raises the pressure and simplifies the whole thing - pressure goes up, air rushes out, pushing the missile.
²: HDK that but in retrospect that may aid even with detection at night if some missiles go fast enough they'd light up otherwise. Well, fighting air pressure he surely knows from travelling upwind so even that makes sense.
Of course, the two major benefits are: (1) we implemented an idea Hazō already had and which was shot down by Orochimaru, (2) we make Kagome-sensei proud by following in his footsteps weaponising the storage of air!
Sure, sure, the seal can perhaps be used as a Poor Man's Vacuum Step too. But "boom, squish" takes precedence.
DRAWBACK: Shikaku's ghost will hate us. We do not have a counter. Actually, if anyone thinks it's a good idea to put that in a plan, I suggest we consult with Shikamaru first about possible counters (wind? solve the chakra dispersion problem?), risk vs reward, etc. The only solace we have for now is that this would leave no trace other than healthy craters. Reverse engineering the means will be much harder, and when we win the war (through this means or others), well, the others will be weak enough that we can develop better countermeasures before they get any funny ideas. Rock has many talented sealmasters I'm told, but they also do not want to be Whirlpool 2. Neither do we, so let's also keep the whole affair on the D.L. hmm? Max opsec, hush hush code plutonium ultraviolet.
Truly surprising to learn just what level of expendable the Goketsu might be, especially considering that Hazo's working on the Great Seal...
Personally, I think Kabuto might be our way out of this. He was more inclined to believe us about the Great Seal rather than Orochimaru. That's a lever I think we should try and pull. Besides that, I think we need him to be more concerned about our welfare by supporting us in making the final Gift program more robust? I was thinking that now would be a good time to start back up on the rift site research again. Desperate times, desperate measures.
The potential of a re-opening of a time-loop rift might be of some use to Oro and Tsunade, especially for the reversing of damage once dead. So far Goketsu is the one leading resaerch like this, so Oro can either deal with putting off cutting us open, or reap the benefits of our investment into this area.
Action Plan: Spirit of Cooperation
Word Count: 300
Goals:
Shikamaru:
Give Noburi a letter for Kabuto with the points below. Have Mari + Nobby review.
Contingencies:
Personally, I think Kabuto might be our way out of this. He was more inclined to believe us about the Great Seal rather than Orochimaru. That's a lever I think we should try and pull. Besides that, I think we need him to be more concerned about our welfare by supporting us in making the final Gift program more robust? I was thinking that now would be a good time to start back up on the rift site research again. Desperate times, desperate measures.
The potential of a re-opening of a time-loop rift might be of some use to Oro and Tsunade, especially for the reversing of damage once dead. So far Goketsu is the one leading resaerch like this, so Oro can either deal with putting off cutting us open, or reap the benefits of our investment into this area.
Action Plan: Spirit of Cooperation
Word Count: 300
Goals:
- Get Oro to back off Hazo and impress upon him that Kei's independent SC is an overblown ongoing Nara experiment. Mari misunderstood the experiment.
- Advance dimensional sealcraft through rift detection. Might help with Great Seal work.
- Potential benefits for Leaf.
- Update the clan on Oro and the plan below.
Shikamaru:
- With war on 2 fronts + Dragon war, the time-Loop rift might be a potential war asset.
- Start detecting and cataloging Leaf rift sites with Kagome from seal masters. Priority goes to the low threat and potentially benign ones.
- Can he help get Kabuto on board? The rift-site re-opening could benefit Orochimaru.
Give Noburi a letter for Kabuto with the points below. Have Mari + Nobby review.
- Hazo appreciates Kabuto understanding the gravity of the Great Seal models.
- His injuries and Rock's aggression have frustratingly slowed his progress to this crisis.
- He's also aware of the value his uncle's and Kabuto's research has to Leaf, and of the impact warfare has on it; the good (More bodies) and the bad ( research delays).
- While work on the models continues, Hazo thinks a particular line of Goketsu sealing research might benefit Kabuto. Delve into the Time-Loop rift incident and how it could allow for a more robust Final Gift Program by allowing the recovery of dead/ damaged bodies.
- Goketsu is spearheading this research, which could unfortunately be delayed if members are incapacitated.
- While work on the models continues, Hazo thinks a particular line of Goketsu sealing research might benefit Kabuto. Delve into the Time-Loop rift incident and how it could allow for a more robust Final Gift Program by allowing the recovery of dead/ damaged bodies.
Contingencies:
- Ask Tsunade to provide Kabuto with Hazo's medical info if Orochimaru doesn't relent.
- Mollify her with knowledge of time-loop research Goketsu is looking into and benefits.
- Get Asuma's permission to reveal time-loop info.
- Send a thank you note to Hinata.
- Write a will.
- Dog Scroll to Akane,
- Clan Head to Noburi.
- Resurrection Notes to Kagome.
- Thank you.
- Location
- Yes.
Weird thought: How bad would it be if we just sent Orochimaru a message explaining that Keiko's cognitively-independent Shadow Clones are caused by Keiko herself being cognitively impaired while her clones were not? By logic, the only way Orochimaru would be able to replicate this feat using Keiko as a template would be by either cognitively crippling himself or his Shadow Clones. He'd get cognitive independence...through making stupider versions of himself. And I don't think Orochimaru likes stupidity.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
[x] Action Plan: Game-Theoretically Shaped Explosives
Word count: 400+ (to be optimized)
Word count: 400+ (to be optimized)
- Coordinate with Kei. Both plans rely on precommitment, surely the Mori/Nara know it?
- If Plan A is insufficient, could be used in tandem with B.
- Plan A. To Asuma:
- Currently, Orochimaru is incentivized to keep pushing, because he knows if he goes out of line, you'll have to look the other way.
- But what if you made that impossible for yourself? If you publicly commit to ousting him if he defies your orders or acts against other Leaf ninja, the payoff matrix would change. Kidnappings would turn from a gamble where he might secure the ability to dissect anyone in Leaf, to the certainty that he'll lose access to all his resources here in exchange for one body to study.
- Suggestion: As the Hokage, publicly speak to all ninja in Leaf, empathizing the importance of loyalty to one another and of personal integrity. Make it clear that it's better to die than compromise on some ideals, and that doing so would condemn Leaf more surely than actual death at enemy hands.
- Specifically request that Oro attends. He should get the message.
- Plan B (run by Asuma, then by the rest of the Gouketsu + Shikamaru and Ami):
- Going along with Orochimaru's demands is a defection against society. It would loudly signal that Asuma denied us protection, that Oro could've gotten away with killing us. He'll know he can target any of us, and other clan ninja.
- We need to deny him that approach, and make the fact that he even tried cost him.
- Proposal:
- Hazou volunteers for a non-lethal, non-permanently-damaging dissection. Oro shares everything he'd learned with us afterwards.
- In exchange, Oro pays us, in jutsu, seals, information, favours. For his previous reprehensible behaviour, he pays us more, until we're not merely satisfied, but happy with it.
- Bonus: If all goes well, other clans might take that deal, too.
- If he doesn't agree to that, we (ideally, every Gouketsu) commit to blow ourselves up the moment it looks like he's kidnapping us.
- Do we have some way of doing that quicker than an S-ranker can paralyze us?
- Avenues of enforcement (must secure at least one, ideally all):
- Execute Plan A. If Asuma commits to exile Oro if he reneges on the deal in any way, that massively increases our chances.
- Tsunade and/or Naruto. Have one of them oversee the operation. If Oro "accidentally" kills us in the process, they should immediately destroy the body. Ideally, they also sack the Basement if he reneges at all.
- Coordinate with other Clan Heads. Get their commitments to obliterate themselves before allowing Oro to kidnap them. If he reneges, he won't get to dissect anyone else, even if Asuma lets him get away with it.
Last edited:
- Location
- Italy
My gut feeling is that Asuma will refuse, also be disappointed we're willing to risk Leaf in such a way. I would suggest combining the two plans in a carrot and stick single plan.(Stick: Plan A, then Offer Carrot with Plan B, convicing Tsunade with the possibility of Oro behaving and remaining in Leaf, and Naruto with Oro not being an absolute monster)
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
They already kind of work this way. Added "If Plan A is insufficient, could be used in tandem with B" at the top, does that make it clearer?
I'm not sure we need to add explicit instructions on how to approach Tsunade/Naruto, not unless we have some truly inspired ideas. Our appeals are self-evident from the rest of the plan, and the characters should be able to come up with appropriate approaches on their own.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Have we considered the possibility that Orochimaru just wouldn't want to do the vivisection?
Like, we're so badly injured we're still on crutches, and we can't do anything mentally scarring because that'll cause our mind to collapse in on itself - and under those conditions we're walking up to him and saying "so without killing me or permanently injuring me, go ahead and use whatever invasive means you want to study us".
His response may well be "I appreciate the thought but those conditions are impossible to accept because I'd get literally zero research value from conditions that restrictive."
Like, we're so badly injured we're still on crutches, and we can't do anything mentally scarring because that'll cause our mind to collapse in on itself - and under those conditions we're walking up to him and saying "so without killing me or permanently injuring me, go ahead and use whatever invasive means you want to study us".
His response may well be "I appreciate the thought but those conditions are impossible to accept because I'd get literally zero research value from conditions that restrictive."
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Do we know if Tsunade gambles in MfD? I know in Canon she did, but I can't recall if she has that kind of reputation in-story.Add it ROTP, you know you want to...
That's really the only reason I can't support your splinter of my plan. Objectively it makes sense from a game theory standpoint to send someone else to talk to naruto and tsunade if we thought it would improve the odds they help, but I WANT to see Hazou do it
I'll add the part about the ideas in a moment, but Asuma is about to get confirmation about the Dragons via the Conclave. And Kagome is about to have the Arachnid Scroll. I'd say that Asuma will have enough reminders about the DRAGONWAR.
- Location
- florida
I also question why Naruto or Tsunade would be at all interested in helping us.
- Location
- Italy
Also, could i suggest offering a solution for Leaf "We don't have enough S-rank combatant in case of attack"? Offer the Summon Bosses unconditional help with the Dragon crysis (Including deploying all our summoners as needed) in exchange for the Boss Summon/Strongest summons ready to protect Leaf in case of direct attack. Add Noburi cheat bloodline, add a written promise that Leaf would attack with it's Summoners, any Clan that uses the occasion to start a land grab and possibly a promise to contact Other village for the great Seal/Help the Condors with indipendence/ Contact Sasori for help....
Done and you have Jonins summons/Conjura/Porcupine Summon ready to protect Leaf. If Leaf had a way to improve Chakra reserves fast or is willing to personally train the current summoners and not deploy them we could use it and add Cannai/Gamabunta/Ma/Pa/Kumogoko to the mix.
@eaglejarl @Velorien What do we know regarding the Bear Scroll,btw?
Last edited:
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Naruto is Kei's good friend and second coordinator of KEI. They have shared trauma and a shared idolization of Ami.
Tsunade begrudgingly likes us, but in a gruff, ninja-equivalent "vodka aunt" kind of way. Sure, she'll punt us through a wall if we offend her, or talk shit about Noburi's (admittedly weak) medic skill, but at the end of the day Tsunade helped us with the Hagoromo Arc, helped Mari in the way the she thought was best, and meets up with Akane for drinks on a regular basis.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Not every Summoner has enough chakra to summon a Boss Summon. Noburi almost has enough chakra to Summon Gamabunta if the chakra cost is at the huvemind's lowest estimates, but Hazou definitely doesn't have enough chakra to summon Cannai.