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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Aura said:
No, let's not
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Re familial relationship; both are linked to Keiko, but have no direct family tie to each other. They're about as far removed biologically as any 2 Ninja clans from the same village could be, so there's no problem there.

The idea behind marriage ensuring cooperation doesn't have anything to do with forcing actions or changing minds. The problem is that Ami's intentions and desires are opaque, as Hazo mentions in the most recent update.

If Ami agreed to marry Hazo, that'd be solid (but admittedly not undeniable) proof that her goals align with his. She'd only agree to marry him if they were heading the same way in life, otherwise the marriage would cause problems for her. Theoretically she could use the marriage as a subversive tool or something, but that's a bit convoluted and unlikely.

In addition to the agreement itself making sure we're on the same page, the implied intimacy would allow the characters to reveal secrets and personal motivations to each other more honestly, as each is now committed to the success of the other. No probing, hesitation or deception necessary. Well maybe some, but much less! Probably.

Edit: think back to how we learned to trust Jiraiah as part of our family. It didn't happen all at once, but distrust, hesitation and paranoia were worn away by repeated reminders that we were all working together now as family.

Inferno Vulpix said:
After that the topic mostly went away, though Ami still references it and talks about dates because it flusters us as she is wont to do.
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Personally I'm of the opinion that she brings it up because she wants it to be on our mind. Hint hint. It might have all been a big practical joke, but even then I feel like she's the kind who'd make her jokes have deeper meaning.

I'm not saying she's smitten with Hazo, but I do think there's some degree of appeal there; if not in Hazo himself, then at least in his position and where their ambitions overlap.

While Ami very much doesn't want to be forced into a marriage, I don't think she's above using marriage to gain advantages - such as a convenient path into leaf citizenship and additional resources for her many plots?

As long as it's something she wants and agrees to instead of having it be 'agreed upon' for her. And hey, maybe there's room for love to grow somewhere in there too.

As for problems with age... Yeah I dunno. I don't think the QMs are just going to throw their hands up and ban all romance forever (obviously not), but it could make actual marriage difficult to write about. It's tricky but possible, I'd think.

Honestly the biggest problem with marrying Ami I can find is the thread being so divided about her. And people are so divided by her in part because if how opaque her motives are, which brings us right back to the beginning of the post.

Btw my autocorrect was running wild while writing this, forgive anything I didn't catch.
 
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redzonejoe said:
Re familial relationship; both are linked to Keiko, but have no direct family tie to each other. They're about as far removed biologically as any 2 Ninja clans from the same village could be, so there's no problem there.

The idea behind marriage ensuring cooperation doesn't have anything to do with forcing actions or changing minds. The problem is that Ami's intentions and desires are opaque, as Hazo mentions in the most recent update.

If Ami agreed to marry Hazo, that'd be solid (but admittedly not undeniable) proof that her goals align with his. She'd only agree to marry him if they were heading the same way in life, otherwise the marriage would cause problems for her. Theoretically she could use the marriage as a subversive tool or something, but that's a bit convoluted and unlikely.

In addition to the agreement itself making sure we're on the same page, the implied intimacy would allow the characters to reveal secrets and personal motivations to each other more honestly, as each is now committed to the success of the other. No probing, hesitation or deception necessary. Well maybe some, but much less! Probably.

Edit: think back to how we learned to trust Jiraiah as part of our family. It didn't happen all at once, but distrust, hesitation and paranoia were worn away by repeated reminders that we were all working together now as family.


Personally I'm of the opinion that she brings it up because she wants it to be on our mind. Hint hint. It might have all been a big practical joke, but even then I feel like she's the kind who'd make her jokes have deeper meaning.

I'm not saying she's smitten with Hazo, but I do think there's some degree of appeal there; if not in Hazo himself, then at least in his position and where their ambitions overlap.

While Ami very much doesn't want to be forced into a marriage, I don't think she's above using marriage to gain advantages - such as a convenient path into leaf citizenship and additional resources for her many plots?

As long as it's something she wants and agrees to instead of having it be 'agreed upon' for her. And hey, maybe there's room for love to grow somewhere in there too.

As for problems with age... Yeah I dunno. I don't think the QMs are just going to throw their hands up and ban all romance forever (obviously not), but it could make actual marriage difficult to write about. It's tricky but possible, I'd think.

Honestly the biggest problem with marrying Ami I can find is the thread being so divided about her. And people are so divided by her in part because if how opaque her motives are, which brings us right back to the beginning of the post.

Btw my autocorrect was running wild while writing this, forgive anything I didn't catch.
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I think your position is reasonable, and treating it as a show of commitment is a far more moral and workable basis. I honestly would prefer her joining to be through becoming part of Team Uplift rather then just joining the clan, but it at least makes some sense;
I still, personally, do not want Hazo to marry Ami (as Hazo), Hazo and Ami to get married (as a reader), and I'm pretty sure Ami might actually not want a marriage at this time for her own reasons.
Another point of concern, which is more serious if more uncertain in its pertinency, might be Kei's fears about Ami being ours rather then hers. I think she may well have grown beyond that type of possessiveness and realized how much she is her own (an odd phrasing on my part, but I think it describes this), but I still think this might hurt Kei, which is dissallowed.
 
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redzonejoe said:
Personally I'm of the opinion that she brings it up because she wants it to be on our mind. Hint hint. It might have all been a big practical joke, but even then I feel like she's the kind who'd make her jokes have deeper meaning.
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Seconded.

redzonejoe said:
While Ami very much doesn't want to be forced into a marriage, I don't think she's above using marriage to gain advantages - such as a convenient path into leaf citizenship and additional resources for her many plots?
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I'm actually not sure if Ami would do that. There have to have been times in Mist where a marriage would have gained her access to significantly more power (politically or militarily) but Ami still found a way to succeed in spite of that.

The only way I see Ami voluntarily choosing the "marry into Leaf via Hazou" route is if she genuinely feels some romantic affection for him. And while I think she feels favorably towards Hazou, I'm not sure if it's of the romantic bent or not. Ami dances around solidity enough that we're all but constantly examining her words for the true meaning, trying to divine what might be underneath the underneath.

So it could go either way, even though I kind of hope Ami DOES feel romantic feelings for Hazou, because that would make the story that much more interesting...

That said, personally, I think it's much more likely for Ami to give a contribution that's roughly equal to Skywalkers and Skytowers to try and buy her way in to Leaf... plus some additional concessions to assure Asuma of her loyalty. Not sure it'll succeed, since Ami doesn't have an overly-earnest Hazou spouting a philosophy that's the antithesis of Mist's whole existence (under Yugara).

Aura said:
I think your position is reasonable, but I still, personally, do not want Hazo to marry Ami (as Hazo), Hazo and Ami to get married (as a reader), and I'm pretty sure Ami might actually not want a mairrage at this time for her own reasons.

Also, and far more importantly (sorry that I only thought of this now), remember Kei's fears about Ami being ours rather then hers? I think she may well have grown beyond that type of possessiveness and realized how much she is her own (an odd phrasing on my part, but I think it describes this), but I still think this might hurt Kei, which is dissallowed.
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Pretty sure it's written somewhere in the Laws of Human Decency that, if you wish to date a friend's sibling, you ask that friend for permission first...

Or from Ami's point of view, asking her sibling for permission to date their friend. Which sounds like an amazing scene that I would absolutely adore reading.
 
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Obviously marrying Ami would be a process rather than a snap decision, and the very first thing we'd do is talk to Keiko.

If we managed to get her blessing, we'd talk to the rest of the family.

And then finally we'd approach Ami, and if
Aura said:
Ami might actually not want a mairrage at this time for her own reasons.
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Then she can just say no, that's not the end of the world either.

But those are only theoretical obstacles. Problems that might not exist or that we could overcome with work. None of those are reasons to reject the idea outright.

RandomOTP said:
Pretty sure it's written somewhere in the Laws of Human Decency that, if you wish to date a friend's sibling, you ask that friend for permission first...

Or from Ami's point of view, asking her sibling for permission to date her friend. Which sounds like an amazing scene that I would absolutely adore reading.
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Damn, you ninja's me. Also, yes that sounds like an amazing scene.

Aura said:
but I still, personally, do not want Hazo to marry Ami (as Hazo), Hazo and Ami to get married (as a reader),
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While I disagree with your arguments, this is not an argument and something I totally respect. I guess all I can say about this is that's what the voting system is for.

You've had it your way so far, but soon my time will come!!!1!

RandomOTP said:
The only way I see Ami voluntarily choosing the "marry into Leaf via Hazou" route is if she genuinely feels some romantic affection for him
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I kinda agree with you but only to an extent.

I don't think Ami would enter a loveless relationship purely for material/political gain, nor did I mean to imply it. But I also don't think Ami would marry solely for love either. I mean maybe she would, she's crazy, who knows!

But my impression is that she'd find an advantageous arrangement that she can also see herself enjoying. And she seems to enjoy messing with Hazo, at the very least.
 
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Unaligned Player said:
Diplomacy with enemies and S rankers? Going well? WHAT SORCERY IS THIS?!
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Hazou clearly needs to convince him to explicitly threaten his life if he wants to keep his streak up.


faflec said:
[X] Flashback to Hazou's birthday

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF NOT KNOWING WHAT HAPPENED TO HAZOU'S APPARENTLY NONEXISTENT BIRTHDAY AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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"'Do you know,' Peter asked, 'why swallows build in the eaves of houses? It is to listen to the stories.'"​


eaglejarl said:
Huzzah! I'm glad you're feeling well and that we could be some part of it. Go on with your big bad self and rock that new dwelling.[1]



:sadbird:


[1] Oh my god, I sound old and outdated even to myself.
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(Commiseration)


faflec said:
[X] Make Lailoken Supreme Dictator of the Hivemind
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Cariyaga said:
[X] Make Lailoken Supreme Dictator of the Hivemind
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I'll tell you the same thing I told Joe: you couldn't possibly pay me enough to take that gig.
 
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Kiba said:
  • Are we planning to use Candoru to scout first? Or is it in concurrent with other summons? Order of operation is important.
  • Why is Gaku involved? This is a ninja operation.
  • Pay the old team's dinner at an unspecified restaurant? This doesn't promote our restaurant, and sowing animosity among the old and new.
  • Seal research? You do realize we have to dedicate some days to research and some days to other stuff. How is it divided?
  • Why are you splitting the glassworkers among three distinct projects? Why only research facilities? Better wording might be "give them what they need for research". This includes everything from research materials to buildings.
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  • Are we planning to use Candoru to scout first? Or is it in concurrent with other summons? Order of operation is important.
    • Candoru is a part of the bigger strategy of crippling chakra beasts and using them as chakra batteries. If he bites the dust a few times, well, it's what Cannai wants. If not, then we'll find another time to do what Cannai asked, and Candoru can just be a useful summon.
  • Why is Gaku involved? This is a ninja operation.
    • From what I remember, he helped Mari craft the last one (or maybe he just told us about it, but it's not the impression I had) and he's the clan treasurer on top of that. I don't see what we lose by having him there tbh, his loyalty is absolute.
  • Pay the old team's dinner at an unspecified restaurant? This doesn't promote our restaurant, and sowing animosity among the old and new.
    • It was pointed out that our people may not appreciate being offered something that benefits Hazou more than them. I also don't agree it would sow animosity, but I can change it to everyone on the team is invited.
  • Seal research? You do realize we have to dedicate some days to research and some days to other stuff. How is it divided?
    • I've been told that we should not specify timelines because the QMs would rather do so. I probably won't touch this unless everyone's okay with just removing it completely for now.
  • Why are you splitting the glassworkers among three distinct projects? Why only research facilities? Better wording might be "give them what they need for research". This includes everything from research materials to buildings.
    • We're just putting our foot in the door, we can update this literally whenever we want. I will change it to "give them what they need" but I don't think we need to worry about if this is immediately perfect. Especially considering this is something we voted to do already a few times IIRC.
 
[X] Action Plan: Punch time

MORE PUNCHING, AT LAST

I also wish to remind the hicemind that I precommited to vote for "any plan that has Hazou ask Ami to marry him". Just in case it comes up soon (as it should).
 
Lailoken said:
I'll tell you the same thing I told Joe: you couldn't possibly pay me enough to take that gig.
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I'm afraid we're an ochlocracy here, so you don't have veto powers. If the Thread decides you're to be its dictator, you'll have no choice but to take the job.

[X] Make Lailoken Supreme Dictator of the Hivemind
 
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Waffle said:
[X] Action Plan: Punch time

MORE PUNCHING, AT LAST

I also wish to remind the hicemind that I precommited to vote for "any plan that has Hazou ask Ami to marry him". Just in case it comes up soon (as it should).
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If by "soon" you mean "a minimum of 3 in-game years" then... maybe? Anytime before that isn't happening so we don't get mod ire for age differences
 
But on a more serious note, this isn't the update where we would actually decide it, and it won't be until a lot of discussion making sure everyone involved is comfortable with this thing.
 
Aura said:
But on a more serious note, this isn't the update where we would actually decide it, and it won't be until a lot of discussion making sure everyone involved is comfortable with this thing.
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EJ's polyq update convinced me to sail aboard the Hazou-Ino-Akane ship --provided Akane is comfortable with that dynamic. My investment in Ami's hypothetical involvement is more of a bewildered, almost morbid curiosity. It'd be interesting to see that develop, but I'm unsure if it would end well --for more reasons than just Ami being a social general. I think we need to learn more about Ami's motivations/trustworthiness before we can bring her into our confidences.

I think she likes Hazou well enough, and she's had our back several times before, even at the cost of vulnerability (Out Advice, to name one. Our helping Keiko to grow beyond Ami's wildest dreams, to name two). I'm just not sure if Ami's Ultimate Goal is compatible with Uplift, and I don't know if Ami would sacrifice Team Uplift as a way to achieve it.

Keiko seems to imply that Ami's UG isn't mutually exclusive to Uplift. Provided that's true, that's reassuring. And while I don't think Ami would use the Goketsu in such a way, I don't know.

That said, any plan that involves Ami (or Yuno... Or Ino... And maybe Haru) has a good chance of getting my vote. They're awesome, complex characters that are a delight to read about.
 
Friendly reminder that we're paying R2,000,000/month to the Hagoromo for the Election stuff. Can we use this bond subtly or overtly to influence them on the concubine laws?
 
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