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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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ContextBot said:
Yeah, that's not going to make her more confident, just more driven to please Hazou.
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ContextBot said:
Also, Akane can be somewhat disobedient
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Aren't these contradictions?

I am happy she is doing her own things, even if some of those actions aren't that smart. Mistakes are how people grow. Maybe less so in a death world but SC should help with that. :V

Plus, it's not like Hazou has a monopoly on doing stupid things.

And the scroll boosting her self-confidence isn't really my main argument for getting it anyway, just a bonus.

ContextBot said:
Hi! Welcome to this quest, how did you find us?
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I saw a post on Reddit and found my way here.

Nice to meet y'all, I hope you treat me well.

PS: How do I edit other people's post? I can only seem to be able to edit mine which seems rather counter productive for the whole voting thing.
 
eaglejarl said:
"I mean that very sincerely. As an example, I was dumbstruck by the contribution of one young man. Two years a genin, clanless, his family dead. Still struggling to build his place in the world and unblessed by the hand of fortune, he contributed an escape jutsu created by his father's father's father. This jutsu was passed down through the line, never known to anyone in the world save a father and his son. It was the only unique thing that this young man had. It is not flashy or dramatic, it does not explode mountains or raise dragons. It is the kind of technique that a casual glance might have dismissed, that a fool might have seen and said 'how nice'. Yet it was this young man's sole possession, a legacy of honor, and he freely granted it to his village. It will save the lives of countless Leaf ninja over generations to come, and this young man gave me permission to list it in the Leaf Private Library with his name attached. All those generations to come will know the name Tanaka Yoshi as a savior. Thank you, Yoshi."
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This sounds like a great utility technique! I'm envisioning something on par with the Academy Two.
 
Tua said:
And in my opinion, you can't just dismiss legitimate concerns because of this.
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To be clear, the metaargument is not one I'm making. I am saying "This is how I see it, (presents thinking), and that this aligns with author preferences is a cool cherry on top."

I'm actually having trouble understanding your response. While I disagree with some interpretations of the text made, you seem to be saying that "Asuma is cool with Akane training SC, training, and spending time decoding the notes." , "Summoning training seems to be about the same time commitment" (note: I disagree with this statement generally, not just as a matter of interpreting the text. I think we have evidence that summoning training is much more time intensive ), and that "So, he should be okay if we swap out the training for the exam bit with the full time summoning and then doing the decoding or whatever."

I think this logic breaks down a lot if you look at it from the perspective of the resources involved.

For example (and abbreviating my thoughts to just get the general idea out there):

If she takes the scroll and does the training and then does SC to do decoding, then from the perspective of "Where are my goddamn spy notes Hazou??", they get to his desk much later than they would otherwise. On the flipside, while shes working on the notes, the scroll is as good as useless because shes sitting around doing nothing but helping with the spynotes.

I dont think he would be happy with this combination at all, since it involves something like that happening. The things he wants done arent happening for longer than they would have otherwise, and he really wants these things done.
 
Tua said:
Aren't these contradictions?
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Not really, she thinks what she is doing is right and helpful, "My Youth will not allow Kagome to die!" (It worked, but that doesn't mean she didn't just ignore Kagome)

Tua said:
I am happy she is doing her own things, even if some of those actions aren't that smart. Mistakes are how people grow. Maybe less so in a death world but SC should help with that. :V
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I am ok with her doing her own thing, not really my point.

Tua said:
And the scroll boosting her self-confidence isn't really my main argument for getting it anyway, just a bonus.
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Well, I wasn't just responding to you :p.

Tua said:
Nice to meet y'all, I hope you treat me well.
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Sorry that Zabuza died.
 
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MMKII said:
If she takes the scroll and does the training and then does SC to do decoding, then from the perspective of "Where are my goddamn spy notes Hazou??", they get to his desk much later than they would otherwise. On the flipside, while shes working on the notes, the scroll is as good as useless because shes sitting around doing nothing but helping with the spynotes.
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To be clear, this is how I imagined things to go between the two scenarios:

Akane not getting the scroll but decides to go to the Exams:
She learns SC, spits her time decoding and training for the Exams.

Akane gets the scroll but declines to go the Exams:
She learns SC, splits her time decoding and doing summoner training.

I admit that how long summoner training lasts is rather vague for me, but I imagined it something akin to reserving to maybe six hours a day instead of something you do at the expense of everything else.

Noburi seems to have enough plenty of free time without having access to SC and I believe he is being taught by Asuma himself (@faflec?) so there is a limit to how much of his time he can take up.

Hence me equating training/Exam prep with summoner training.

You implied that didn't make sense so how much time do you think summoner training takes per day?

E: This is something a QM could clear up since Hazou would know by having observed Noburi, right? /E

MMKII said:
To be clear, the metaargument is not one I'm making. I am saying "This is how I see it, (presents thinking), and that this aligns with author preferences is a cool cherry on top."
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I got that part, but this being a forum with many lurkers present, I wanted to offer an rebuttal of said argument because it has come up in the thread more than once before.

Or as the Melty Snowman has put it:

ContextBot said:
Well, I wasn't just responding to you :p.
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Pinging @MMKII into this as well.

Tua said:
Noburi seems to have enough plenty of free time without having access to SC and I believe he is being taught by Asuma himself (@faflec?) so there is a limit to how much of his time he can take up
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Summoner training is a full time job that is exclusive with pretty much everything else. If it seems like Noburi has plenty of time, that's either author error or simply an illusion of the medium based on the fact that he is only shown onscreen in the off hours, eg at dinner.

Regular training can be a few hours a day, especially when training things that cost a lot of chakra and can therefore only be fired once or twice per day.


Tua said:
Obviously, EJ would know himself how the Dogs would feel about Hazou but us players do not due to HDK
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Expectation management:
I actually don't know how the Dogs will feel about Hazō. The QMs have not discussed their personalities or priorities yet.

Also expectation management: We might or might not use any of the dogs from canon. Both because we don't necessarily want to be bound by their backgrounds and also because I quit watching the anime around the bridge fight, so I've never seen them summoned and have no idea what they're like. (I may have seen the summoning in a YouTube clip at some point, I don't recall. Regardless, I don't know their personalities.)

As to why I quit where I did:
Naruto's stupid catchphrase was like a wire brush grinding into my ears. I couldn't stand the pacing. (22 minute episode with three minutes of "previously, on Naruto" at the beginning, two minutes of "next time, on Naruto" at the end, fights consist mostly of standing around glaring at one another.) etc
 
Re: Akane and the Dog Scroll

Just give the damn thing to Haru.

Edit: @Tua
eaglejarl said:
"Only the Summoner can go to the Seventh Path," Hazō pointed out. "You're our medic and you're already studying to be the Toad Summoner. Speaking of which, how is that coming?"

Noburi grimaced. "It makes my brain hurt, but I'm getting there. Asuma and Lady Tsunade are both good teachers and they've been making it a priority to ensure that one of them is available to teach me on a regular basis." He snorted. "Granted, Lady Tsunade's teaching methods are a bit more painful than Asuma's, so I typically prefer his lessons to hers. Don't tell her I said that."
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eaglejarl said:
As to why I quit where I did:
Naruto's stupid catchphrase was like a wire brush grinding into my ears. I couldn't stand the pacing. (22 minute episode with three minutes of "previously, on Naruto" at the beginning, two minutes of "next time, on Naruto" at the end, fights consist mostly of standing around glaring at one another.) etc
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And that arc was even the one with the best animation.

It's probably too late at this point, but I'd have recommended reading the manga instead. Less filler and you can skip pages quickly if needed.

And thanks for clearing up the time issue.

If I had to pick in that case, I'd have Hazou get the scroll to make sure Akane gets SC guaranteed. And then she can have the next scroll we get. Not changing my vote as of now since it doesn't look like she can win anyway.

And Haru will get nothing but contempt. :V

(Or at most the Grumpy Bear Scroll if there is such a thing.)
 
Tua said:
And then she can have the next scroll we get.
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I think theres a decent chance we'd be able to track down the Otter Scroll within the next year or so(yes I read EJ's prior expectation management disclaimer). Depends on how making a dragon radar for these things goes, and whether or not Dogs can sniff out musty old eldritch paper in the desert.

Haru can have the Kraken scroll because I want to strangle him sometimes because he needs lots of hugs. 😇
 
Tua said:
I am also worried the Dogs might not accept Hazou as the summoner due to him being directly responsible for the wars on the Seventh Path. There is also a chance that dogs value loyalty above else, and well, Hazou happens to be a former missing-nin whereas Akane isn't. In fact, "loyal" would be one of the defining traits of hers. And as you said yourself, rejection by the summons could be grounds for Asuma to revoke the scroll.
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Yeah, but what kind of loyalty? To a group/pack, to an ideology? *shrug*

Also we weren't directly responsible. It's not like the Pangolin asked us how to take over the condor clan.

And you could argue that by continuously selling stuff to our allies we showed loyalty.

Maybe they approve of blind loyalty (/s).

We really don't know, but we can ask Asuma/Enma and maybe the Toads about more info. If I remember correctly Keiko should have a Pangolin at the Embassy in the Toad territory.

MMKII said:
I think theres a decent chance we'd be able to track down the Otter Scroll within the next year or so(yes I read EJ's prior expectation management disclaimer). Depends on how making a dragon radar for these things goes, and whether or not Dogs can sniff out musty old eldritch paper in the desert.
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Ask the Otter clan for some blood, might help with both the radar and the dogs.

faflec said:
Just give the damn thing to Haru.
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No, but instead:

[X] Dog scroll: Ami

(in exchange for her hand in marriage, otherwise Hazou keeps it)
 
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Damn, been watching many of the early chapters and see the early relationship between Hazou x Akane. Definitely a shipper now :V

Has anyone compiled all hazou x Akane interaction? Would kill for that
 
Kiba said:
[X] Action Plan: Talk to Tsunade

  • Sizeable donation(>= 1M ryo) to Tsunade's charity, delivered quietly.
  • Send someone appropriate(if not Hazo, then Mari, Noburi, or Akane)
  • Schedule a conversation with Tsunade at her convenience.
    • Goketsu Clan does Till'n'FIll missions and is looking into sending volunteer teachers. Would be great to coordinate with doctor's visit.
    • Will teach MEW to Med-nin so that they can do walls as well.
    • Proposal: Develop tool and techniques for civilian doctors
      • Ninja medicine is the most effective in the EN, but unfortunately not available to civilians.
      • Will be harder, but not impossible. Goketsu's contribution to the contest is proof of concept.
    • Did the Hyuga's deal fell to the wayside? We may be able to pick up some or all of what Hiashi promised.
      • If not, how can we aid your effort?
      • If we cannot, we'll be boosting Goketsu finance until this is possible.
    • Advice for Goketsu clinic?
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Any feedback?
 
I don't think the clan will react kindly to Hazou unilaterally deciding who gets the Dog Scroll. He may be the clan leader technically but in practice he isn't and acting like one could strain relationships
 
[X] Training Akane: Yama-not gonna pass this up
[X] Training Noburi: Yama-not gonna pass this up
[X] Training Hazou: Yama-not gonna pass this up
[X] Training Keiko: Yama-not gonna pass this up
 
MMKII said:
Universe B: Give Akane scroll, no SC.

Pros:
-Akane gets dog scroll
- Hazo gets to FOOM asap

Cons:
- Akane doesn't get SC.
-- The Clan doesnt get someone doing the FOOM as quickly as it couldve.
-- Asuma's justification for not giving the technique to Kagome sort of implies it'll be a while before he gives a high value target like a summoner access to SC without some major grease on the wheels.
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I'm not going to weigh in on the rest of the analysis, because I have mixed feelings on it. I just wanted to point out that the con "Akane with summoning and SC will make her too big of a target in Asuma's mind" also would apply to Hazou. Likely even moreso, considering higher risk of treachery+ sealsmith+ clan head. So it would apply to both, or neither I'd think.

It's a problem that decreases with time, since being strong enough makes it less of an issue. Look at Jiraiya. Or Asuma. Or...Keiko. Right. She's a Summoner with SC who also just went on a risky mission. So maybe it's more likely Asuma just doesn't trust Kagome with SC, and it isn't a factor otherwise?
 
Kiba said:
[X] Action Plan: Talk to Tsunade


Tsunade
  • Check plan with clan.
  • Sizeable donation(>= 1M ryo) to Tsunade's charity, delivered quietly.
  • Send someone appropriate(if not Hazo, then Mari, Noburi, or Akane)
  • Schedule a conversation with Tsunade at her convenience.
    • Goketsu Clan does Till'n'FIll missions and is looking into sending volunteer teachers. Would be great to coordinate with doctor's visit.
    • Will teach MEW to Med-nin so that they can do walls as well.
    • Proposal: Develop tool and techniques for civilian doctors
      • Ninja medicine is the most effective in the EN, but unfortunately not available to civilians.
      • Will be harder, but not impossible. Goketsu's contribution to the contest is proof of concept.
    • Did the Hyuga's deal fell to the wayside? We may be able to pick up some or all of what Hiashi promised.
      • If not, how can we aid your effort?
      • If we cannot, we'll be boosting Goketsu finance until this is possible.
    • Advice for Goketsu clinic?
Date Akane.
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Updated with action plan to date Akane.
 
[X] Lore Update

Ugh, part of me wants to make a plan to smooth over (Haru's) ruffled feathers over the Dog Scroll, but feels there's going to be pushback on us even discussing who gets the thing. bleh
 
faflec said:
Ugh, part of me wants to make a plan to smooth over (Haru's) ruffled feathers over the Dog Scroll, but feels there's going to be pushback on us even discussing who gets the thing. bleh
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Can you explain where this is coming from? We didn't promise him a scroll, did we?
 
Halberdier said:
I just wanted to point out that the con "Akane with summoning and SC will make her too big of a target in Asuma's mind" also would apply to Hazou.
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Right, but Asuma can't choose to unteach us the SC technique, and us acquiring the scroll is ultimately a function of what Hazou wants to do (he will respect the contest results for the most part until it becomes inconvenient for the village to be wasting resources).

With Akane, he can just say "Y'know, what? It's a bit silly to teach you thae Shadow Clone now...." and its as easy as that.
 
[x] Action Plan: It's the Plan From Before That Needs Finishing Please Vote for This Otherwise Its Kinda Awkward To Not Haha (Taking Edit Suggestions)
Word count: 395
  • Continue the Group meeting
    • Point: establish context with Team Uplift and friends, clarify the additional long term Team goal to everyone.
    • Deal with OPSEC concerns beforehand.
    • Introduction:
      • Team Uplift's goal is to improve the living conditions of everyone in the world. we've been focused on opposing and reshaping our civilization's self-destructive systems. That remains our priority.
      • But the problem runs deeper: reality itself is fragile. Pain's plan was world-ending. Whatever his intentions were, the fact that a world-altering event on this scale can actually happen is terrifying. For you, it threw into stark relief some of the fundamental truths glimpsed by Sealing.
      • deliberate human actions aren't even necessary. Reality is keen on tearing itself apart on its own. The damage from that is often catastrophic, and could be arbitrarily large. Worse still are the things that lurk outside, and occasionally seep through these tears: horrors of unfathomable power and malice, some of which can casually snuff out our entire universe.
      • It's a terrible truth. We're meant to be cowed by it, stuck helpless with fear — the same way we're meant to be resigned to the EN's system of violence. As far as you're concerned, nothing changes: another terrible thing we'll need to eventually fix.
      • It's currently above our pay grade, it doesn't mean we can't gather information.
    • We have a large selection of leads we could pursue, but Pain is the most salient one.
      • Points of discussion:
        • Pain/Rinnegan's nature and powers.
        • The ritual's purpose.
        • "The Five, still sealed after a thousand years of sacrifice".
        • The fate of the lost bijuu.
        • The bird summon — an archaeopteryx?
      • What does Kagome think of the ritual? Sealing arrays?
      • Yuno: Perhaps there's something relevant in Isan's cultural knowledge?
  • Have words with Akane.
  • Accept the latest reasonable rendition of the Yasuji deal.
  • Post-contest:​
    • Celebrate.
      • Thank everyone who made it possible.. Every clan member and resident did something to help.
    • Scroll allocation (done privately with the clan).
      • Inform everyone. [See: In-thread vote.]
      • Internal thoughts: It was a tough choice, but between Akane getting SC and Haru not yet having proven himself, this is the best option for the clan and Leaf.
      • Ask after preferences on the other currently free scrolls?
      • Ok. We'll try to get you those.
        • Tone: Trivial. As if discussing grocery shopping.
        • Note: You are acutely aware it will be monumentally difficult. So be it.
 
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