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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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I, for one, would like the clan meeting to hammer out the deal. Not just because Noburi has the best concept of what trading away a bloodline would mean for a clan. Not just because this decision affects all of them, since we'll be adding family members from the deal. Not just for the sanity check and insight.

No, what I'm looking forward to the most is reading Hazou and Akane's dialogue (and painful subtext) on this issue. Probably the most destructive thing I've wished for concerning either of those two. But, I think any of the QMs could make that a wonderfully heart- wrenching scene that I would love- hate to read.
 
@huhYeahGoodPoint would you be willing to grab Mari and a Naruto to go renegotiate the deal instead of just charging in there by our lonesome?
 
MMKII said:
@huhYeahGoodPoint would you be willing to grab Mari and a Naruto to go renegotiate the deal instead of just charging in there by our lonesome?
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No. Mari would try to social spec us into dropping the renegotiation because sPoOkY sEduCtIoN sPeC sHiT, and I don't know that we'd be able to brief Naruto on the deal and go renegotiate with Sasuke.

I urgently want to deal with this now because of time limitations; more clan discussions is something we are out of time for, imo.

I am much more emininently fine with having a merely adequate but acceptable deal now than trying to pass a perfect deal by committee.
 
Oneiros said:
Ami when we where in Mist was mostly tolerable. She was competent but working at an acceptable level. Ami Post battle of the gods a force of nature who is playing politics at a level past social spec S-rankers. She waltz in to enemy territory and freely manipulated their politics. She has essentially become a Marry Sue in my opinion. She constantly breaks my suspension of disbelief. This is further contrasted with how Hazō is treated as basically total fuck up even though they are very close to the same age.
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Real quick, what have we actually observed her achieve so far in terms of political manipulation of Leaf? Like, I don't doubt she's competent, but it seems extremely probable to me that she's deliberately hyping up exactly how good she is as part of her schtick. It's a lot easier to look superhumanly perfect than it is to be that way, especially when your target(s) have limited ability to independently verify your actions and their effectiveness.
 
Wiadi said:
Like, I don't doubt she's competent, but it seems extremely probable to me that she's deliberately hyping up exactly how good she is as part of her schtick.
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I'd put it at 90% actually. A lot of what she does is bullshit smoke and mirrors designed to keep us confused, pat herself on the back, and shunt us into a position of inferiority while keeping up a playful attitude to stop us from rolling our eyes at it. She probably puts a lot of work into this crap behind the scenes.

OTOH: She will basically be the metaphorical sheriff in town in Mist if she successfully subverts their Jinchuuriki.
 
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Wiadi said:
Real quick, what have we actually observed her achieve so far in terms of political manipulation of Leaf? Like, I don't doubt she's competent, but it seems extremely probable to me that she's deliberately hyping up exactly how good she is as part of her schtick. It's a lot easier to look superhumanly perfect than it is to be that way, especially when your target(s) have limited ability to independently verify your actions and their effectiveness.
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Being in Leaf and having any freedom of movement is ridiculous. After losing 2 kages in 4 months having an operative from your long time rival strains all credulity
 
huhYeahGoodPoint said:
No. Mari would try to social spec us into dropping the renegotiation because sPoOkY sEduCtIoN sPeC sHiT, and I don't know that we'd be able to brief Naruto on the deal and go renegotiate with Sasuke.

I urgently want to deal with this now because of time limitations; more clan discussions is something we are out of time for, imo.

I am much more emininently fine with having a merely adequate but acceptable deal now than trying to pass a perfect deal by committee.
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Fair enough. Can you fix up both of your plans a bit grammar and phrasing wise? I have no idea what the bit about parties rendering aid means, but I'm guessing that refers to whoever from our clan is maybe helping out the people at dinner if they need it or something...?
 
Oneiros said:
Being in Leaf and having any freedom of movement is ridiculous. After losing 2 kages in 4 months having an operative from your long time rival strains all credulity
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I mean...who's going to stop her, exactly? Leaf's military and command structure are devastated and their remnants have much bigger fish to fry than one jounin sent as an emissary by the Kage of a recently-turned-friendly power, at least as long as all she's doing is walking around unrestricted areas talking to people. Her skills may play into the exact degree of freedom somewhat but frankly I suspect whoever Ren sent would have a pretty free hand if they were ambitious enough to try using it.
 
We also need to build relationships between the three of them so that the social dynamics for our bowling team are optimal.
 
MMKII said:
Fair enough. Can you fix up both of your plans a bit grammar and phrasing wise? I have no idea what the bit about parties rendering aid means, but I'm guessing that refers to whoever from our clan is maybe helping out the people at dinner if they need it or something...?
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I've removed that segment because I realized it didn't add anything; I was just talking about potentials anyway. Can you tell me if there are any more sticking points?

Plan(s) below here:
huhYeahGoodPoint said:
[X] Action Plan: The People's Liberation Army
Wordcount: 172

Goals: Refugee processing, recruitment, Snake and Nakano dinner

Complete critical actions in given order, other actions in any order.

Afternoon:

[Critical] Get that list of injuries, sicknesses and needs from Bunji. Resolve them swiftly, delegating to Goketsu clan members and able-bodied civilians where reasonable.

Begin organizing the refugees into smaller units, nominating leaders to represent and resolve issues within units. Preference given to keeping families within the same unit.

Thank Tsunade.

Invite Naruto to dinner.

Mingle with refugees.

Determine refugee skills.

Affirm Goketsu's willingness to lend ninja strength to civilian affairs. Explain and affirm Goketsu dedication to Uplift as a philosophy. Request their support.

Request assistance with organizing construction teams.

Act with humility.

Evening:

Ensure that we are semiformal, but not full dress. Respect Snake and Nakano's efforts to be presentable.

Discuss aftermath of the recent Sealing failure. Are their family and friends alright? Is there anything we can do for them?

Discuss retainership concept: not formal adoption, formalized contractors-with-benefits. Possible benefits may include Sealing knowledge, custom seal requests, medic-nin assistance, etc.


Who was Yudai, again?


[X] Action Plan: Head to Head
Word count: 194
  • Afternoon:
    • Renegotiate the contract.
      • Take Mari off the Uchiha renegotiation for now.
      • Go to Sasuke with the contract.
      • Renegotiate, Clan Head to Clan Head.
    • Key contentions:
      • Goketsu will have a role in raising their children.
        • Reasoning: Hazou will not condone any deal otherwise.
        • Possibilities:
          • Visitation rights
          • Dual-clan rearing
          • Goketsu virtually? raising Uchiha
            • Iron Nerve births especially - special conditions that Hazou can handle that Uchiha would likely not know about.
      • Adoptee birthrate reduced.
        • Reasoning: Too unsafe for adoptees.
        • Possibilities:
          • More adoptees
          • Reduced waiting period
          • Slightly longer time horizons.
    • Offers
      • Deal is contingent on Hiashi not winning the hat - abstension not necessary if Hiashi would lose.
      • Reduction in income net
      • Reduction in marker take
      • Reinterpretation and definition of "preferential trading partner"
    • Wants
      • Jutsu trades
      • Formal ability to request Sharingan ninja for projects?
    • If successful, sign agreement.
    • Best alternative to no agreement: Walk away.
      • Uchiha are not absolutely necessary to win.
  • Evening
    • Respect Snake and Nakano's efforts to be presentable.
    • Discuss the recent Sealing failure.
      • Are their families and friends alright?
      • If not, anything we can do for them?
    • Discuss retainership concept: not formal adoption, formalized contractors-with-benefits.
      • Possible benefits:
        • Sealing knowledge
        • Custom seal requests
        • Medic-nin assistance
        • etc.
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With respect to bringing Mari and Naruto along for the deal, I think I have a few more reasons why I wouldn't want to besides just "we're out of time and these scenes don't really add anything" - mostly to do with the advantages a one on one confers.

I think a one-on-one negotiation with Sasuke would actually be significantly more advantageous than a team negotiation for several reasons. One, by limiting the scope of people who can be involved in this task we can probably make the negotiations quicker; a quick back and forth rather than six different opinions on what the text reads. Two, by only bringing the Clan Head, we can basically can pick the high-level person we want to talk with and get them to talk with us. If we brought more people the Uchiha would have similar reason to even out the numbers or feel threatened, neither of which we particularly want for amicable negotiations. Three, I want Sasuke specifically because I think we have similar common ground wrt the value of family, whereas a Uchiha elder might not have so many compunctions.

I might come up with more; I'm not really convinced that involving more people really improves the result relative to how much we care.
 
huhYeahGoodPoint said:
. Two, by only bringing the Clan Head, we can basically can pick the high-level person we want to talk with and get them to talk with us. If we brought more people the Uchiha would have similar reason to even out the numbers or feel threatened, neither of which we particularly want for amicable negotiations. Three, I want Sasuke specifically because I think we have similar common ground wrt the value of family, whereas a Uchiha elder might not have so many compunctions.
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That's a good point, but again Naruto is Sasuke's friend and bringing him along gives us major in-roads. Yes, the Uchiha might bring someone else to even out the numbers, but if they're negotiating in good faith we can deal with them without any issue while still negotiating amicably. On the other hand, if the second Uchiha (who I'm assuming will be an elder) won't negotiate with us in good faith, then we'll still have Naruto who has pretty amazing socials.
 
18scsc said:
That's a good point, but again Naruto is Sasuke's friend and bringing him along gives us major in-roads. Yes, the Uchiha might bring someone else to even out the numbers, but if they're negotiating in good faith we can deal with them without any issue while still negotiating amicably. On the other hand, if the second Uchiha (who I'm assuming will be an elder) won't negotiate with us in good faith, then we'll still have Naruto who has pretty amazing socials.
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The difference is mostly in the first point; if we can get everyone in the room agreeing "yeah if you birthed a kid you should get to raise them" we'll be able to clear Hazou's bottom line pretty easy, but if we can't, then the negotiation goes to shit real quick. The fewer people we have negotiating and especially the fewer people who we suspect would have that viewpoint, the easier this negotiation goes.

faflec said:
It'd be kinda awkward if Snake was a clan-nin and we pitched the retainership deal to her.
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Not at all; it's just being contractors-with-benefits and being allowed to have special-normally-clan privileges and other goodies without being part of the clan and getting all the goodies.
 
Snake is an ANBU, right? We've literally had one 2 minute conversation with them? We would need to get to know them a lot better before we offered them anything.
 
Why are we assuming that Sasuke is in a position to accept or deny the deal? Has Mari given any indication that he's the one she negotiated with?
 
Word Count: 197

[X] Action Plan: Representation
  • Afternoon: Clan meeting on politics.
    • Propose changes to the Uchiha deal. Send Mari off to finalize the deals.
      • Hagoromo: Accept the deal as-is, it's fine.
      • Uchiha: Accept IFF key contentions are solved, otherwise decline.
    • Can we use civilian influence to flip another vote? Ami's speech earlier suggests it could be worthwhile. Maybe there's a clan that has economic interests requiring skilled civilians?
  • Evening: Dinner with Snake, Team Nakano, and Yudai.
    • Ask Nakano and co. to bring some honeyed apples; Kagome'll love them.
      • Bring money/replacement ingredients to compensate them.
    • Beforehand: Ask Mari to keep an eye on Snake. She seems interested in associating with us; we need allies. What does she know about her? Does she seem trustworthy?
    • Carefully introduce Kagome to Nakano and co..
    • Discuss the recent Sealing failure.
      • Are their families and friends alright?
      • If not, is there anything we can do for them?
    • Ask Snake about her time with Jiraiya. Listen to her stories and reminisce a little.
    • Discuss retainership concept to Team Nakano and Yudai (and Snake, if she's clanless): Not formal adoption, formalized contractors-with-benefits.
      • Possible benefits:
        • Sealing knowledge.
        • Custom seal requests.
        • Medic-nin assistance.
    • After dinner, ask Mari what she thought of Snake.
 
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To be honest, I don't like the renegotiatons. Making sure the women adopted are taken care of appropriately and such, sure.

But frankly, we don't have time to be involved in the children's rearing actively.
 
Cariyaga said:
To be honest, I don't like the renegotiatons. Making sure the women adopted are taken care of appropriately and such, sure.

But frankly, we don't have time to be involved in the children's rearing actively.
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Would this be an appropriate change? It gives us the option to be involved, but doesn't commit ourselves to it.

Edit: Removed the non-critical contentions, as per Discord suggestions.
faflec said:
Word Count: 203

[X] Action Plan: Representation
  • Afternoon: Clan meeting on the Uchiha & Hagoromo deals.
    • Uchiha deal:
      • Key contentions: If these aren't solved, the deal is off.
        • Goketsu have the right to be involved in raising their children.
          • Possible solutions:
            • Visitation rights.
            • Dual-clan rearing.
            • Goketsu virtually (?) raising Uchiha.
              • Iron Nerve births especially - special conditions that Hazou can handle that Uchiha would likely not know about.
        • Reduce adoptee birthrate (to keep them safe).
          • Possible solutions:
            • More adoptees.
            • Reduced waiting period.
            • Longer time horizons.
      • Additional offers: Things we can offer to sweeten the pot.
        • Reduce income net/marker take.
        • Reinterpretation and definition of "preferential trading partner".
    • Send Mari off to finalize the deals.
      • Hagoromo: Accept the deal as-is, it's fine.
      • Uchiha: Accept IFF key contentions are solved, otherwise decline.
  • Evening: Dinner with Snake, Team Nakano, and Yudai.
    • Carefully introduce Kagome to Nakano and co..
    • Discuss the recent Sealing failure.
      • Are their families and friends alright?
      • If not, anything we can do for them?
    • Ask Snake about her time with Jiraiya. Listen to her stories and reminisce a little.
    • To Nakano and co.:
      • Plan to fund some till-n-fills for them to carry out, if they're amenable.
      • Discuss retainership concept: Not formal adoption, formalized contractors-with-benefits.
        • Possible benefits:
          • Sealing knowledge.
          • Custom seal requests.
          • Medic-nin assistance.
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I think we chilled out with Snake and Kagome for a couple hours in that ANBU bunker off screen. Presumably small talking it up in between scribing?
 
Does the quest do timeskips or something? Wouldn't it be like ten years real time down the road by the time any kids got born from this?
 
Mfkr, I just reread The Clanless Perspective and Nakano and co. never really agreed to taking those till'nfills. Removed that part.

Now watch as it's revealed it was said in a separate post. :p
faflec said:
Word Count: 186

[X] Action Plan: Representation
  • Afternoon: Clan meeting on the Uchiha & Hagoromo deals.
    • Uchiha deal:
      • Key contentions: If these aren't solved, the deal is off.
        • Goketsu have the right to be involved in raising their children.
          • Possible solutions:
            • Visitation rights.
            • Dual-clan rearing.
            • Goketsu virtually (?) raising Uchiha.
              • Iron Nerve births especially - special conditions that Hazou can handle that Uchiha would likely not know about.
        • Reduce adoptee birthrate (to keep them safe).
          • Possible solutions:
            • More adoptees.
            • Reduced waiting period.
            • Longer time horizons.
      • Additional offers: Things we can offer to sweeten the pot.
        • Reduce income net/marker take.
        • Reinterpretation and definition of "preferential trading partner".
    • Send Mari off to finalize the deals.
      • Hagoromo: Accept the deal as-is, it's fine.
      • Uchiha: Accept IFF key contentions are solved, otherwise decline.
  • Evening: Dinner with Snake, Team Nakano, and Yudai.
    • Carefully introduce Kagome to Nakano and co..
    • Discuss the recent Sealing failure.
      • Are their families and friends alright?
      • If not, anything we can do for them?
    • Ask Snake about her time with Jiraiya. Listen to her stories and reminisce a little.
    • Discuss retainership concept: Not formal adoption, formalized contractors-with-benefits.
      • Possible benefits:
        • Sealing knowledge.
        • Custom seal requests.
        • Medic-nin assistance.
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MadScientist said:
So what's our plan for our free slot? I'm thinking we need to get the thing with the Uchiha sorted asap. We can get Naruto in for a clan meeting, and we still need to do the final negotiations (which will need Hazou, Mari, and Naruto on the Gouketsu side and Sasuke and his regent on the Uchiha side). If we're lucky we can get both of those things listed under a single slot but that depends on QMs being nice (which shouldn't be presumed). Aside from that, we've got a slot for dinner with Snake and Nakano. Maybe we can come up with shenanigans to do there. Schemes to involve them in. Offer them a trade of favours to go run an errand for us, maybe? I'unno, I'm just trying to think of how to make the best use of this time.
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Either the clan meeting or the renegotiation for one slot, sorry.

faflec said:
Word Count: 203

[X] Action Plan: Representation
  • Afternoon: Clan meeting on the Uchiha & Hagoromo deals.
    • Uchiha deal:
      • Key contentions: If these aren't solved, the deal is off.
        • Goketsu have the right to be involved in raising their children.
          • Possible solutions:
            • Visitation rights.
            • Dual-clan rearing.
            • Goketsu virtually (?) raising Uchiha.
              • Iron Nerve births especially - special conditions that Hazou can handle that Uchiha would likely not know about.
        • Reduce adoptee birthrate (to keep them safe).
          • Possible solutions:
            • More adoptees.
            • Reduced waiting period.
            • Longer time horizons.
      • Additional offers: Things we can offer to sweeten the pot.
        • Reduce income net/marker take.
        • Reinterpretation and definition of "preferential trading partner".
    • Send Mari off to finalize the deals.
      • Hagoromo: Accept the deal as-is, it's fine.
      • Uchiha: Accept IFF key contentions are solved, otherwise decline.
  • Evening: Dinner with Snake, Team Nakano, and Yudai.
    • Carefully introduce Kagome to Nakano and co..
    • Discuss the recent Sealing failure.
      • Are their families and friends alright?
      • If not, anything we can do for them?
    • Ask Snake about her time with Jiraiya. Listen to her stories and reminisce a little.
    • To Nakano and co.:
      • Plan to fund some till-n-fills for them to carry out, if they're amenable.
      • Discuss retainership concept: Not formal adoption, formalized contractors-with-benefits.
        • Possible benefits:
          • Sealing knowledge.
          • Custom seal requests.
          • Medic-nin assistance.
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For the sake of my poor brain, please put the treaty issues into a separate post and use complete sentences. Something like this:

[] Action Plan: Representation
  • Afternoon: Clan meeting on the Uchiha & Hagoromo deals.
    • Uchiha details are in [link to post]
    • Hagoromo details are in [link to post]
  • Evening: Dinner with Snake, Team Nakano, and Yudai.
    • ...stuff as shown above in faflec's post...

Then, in a separate post:

Changes to the Uchiha deal
Hard limits, we get these exactly as written or the deal is off:
...a paragraph or two of stuff...

Things we want but don't insist on and we're okay if we don't get any of them:
...a paragraph or two of stuff...

Things we're willing to give in exchange for the changes we want:
...a paragraph or two of stuff...


Ditto for the Hagoromo deal.

Please keep it short, simple, and crystal clear; I'm letting you have a substantial amount of verbiage that doesn't count against your word limits, but don't go crazy with it. Likewise, it's on you to make sure that I clearly understand what you're asking for. If I misunderstand what you want or which things are in which category of importance and you end up with a deal that isn't what you wanted...well, sucks to be you. No bitching allowed.
 
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