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Looking over the plans currently on offer, I see that none of them seeks to preserve Goketsu's regional monopoly on Iron Nerve, nor give Goketsu a shot at keep any Sharingan users that might develop locally, including Hazo. Are these then things that the HiveMind has at some point decided it's clearly okay with?
 
This seems extremely risky given the compressed timetable, has the thread reached a consensus on actually advocating for this condition?
Ehh...more like it's something we could reasonably throw out: "We'll let you vote for the Hyuuga so long as you make sure that Hiashi still loses; if Hiashi wins, the deal's on, otherwise it's off."

Now, if Hiashi has his own (better to the Uchiha) counteroffer we're kind of fucked in a way that would be -

Hiashi Hyuuga giving his daughter's hand in marriage to Sasuke Uchiha.

Motherfucker.
 
Looking over the plans currently on offer, I see that none of them seeks to preserve Goketsu's regional monopoly on Iron Nerve, nor give Goketsu a shot at keep any Sharingan users that might develop locally, including Hazo. Are these then things that the HiveMind has at some point decided it's clearly okay with?

I'm not, but oh well.

Unfortunately, the Uchiha are too vulnerable and we're too valuable to take babies off the table. Meanwhile, my headcanon of Hazo has him looking at this deal.

And then there's the fact that we've got limited time going into the Hokage vote, so...

I'm kinda hoping the deal is a high-pressure morality test composed of multiple interests from the Uchiha and to a lesser extent Mari.
 
Looking over the plans currently on offer, I see that none of them seeks to preserve Goketsu's regional monopoly on Iron Nerve, nor give Goketsu a shot at keep any Sharingan users that might develop locally, including Hazo. Are these then things that the HiveMind has at some point decided it's clearly okay with?

IN and Sharigan appear to be mutual exclusive. As Hazo has IN he will never develop Sharigan.
 
The Uchiha Renegotiation, as per Action Plan Head to Head

Goketsu Requirements


Goketsu will have a role in raising their blood children. Possible methods to accomplish this include visitation rights for the Goketsu father, dual-clan membership, or the Goketsu raising their blood children, legally understood to be Uchiha.

Adopted civilian women's birthrate will be reduced to safe levels, closer to a year between pregnancies or higher if possible. Current expected birthrate will result in severely deficient infants and significantly higher risk to women. Possible solutions include adopting more women or adopting a longer time horizon for these children to be ready.

Goketsu's (Possible) Concessions

Remove Hokage vote abstension requirement, given that Hiashi loses the vote for Hokage. (i.e. we won't require you to abstain, but the deals' only on if Hiashi loses)
Reduction in net income take (i.e. we won't take 5% of your net income, we'll take 3%)
Reduction in marker take (i.e. we won't ask for 5 upfront, we can deal with less)
Reinterpretation/favorable definition of "preferential trading partner" (i.e. preferential trading partner means no tariffs between us, moneylender on given terms, but no right of first refusal, to be more generous)
Increased civilian adoptions (i.e. we'll adopt more than eleven women but keep the amount of expected children the same)

Goketsu's Possible Further Demands

We want more jutsus.
We want more seals.

Goketsu's Best Alternative to No Agreement

Walk away without signing either contract.

@eaglejarl, is this an improvement?

Well, it's easier to read. It leaves me with a lot of questions:

  • Which of these things is a dealbreaker and which is a nice to have?
  • Is that an exhaustive list for ways to participate in raising your kids?
  • "the Goketsu raising their blood children, legally understood to be Uchiha" I read this as suggesting that the kids would live at the Gōketsu compound, be parented by their Gōketsu parents, be educated by the Gōketsu, and would be by every reasonable standard a Gōketsu but solely for legal purposes would be considered an Uchiha. If that's not what you meant, you need to do some more wordsmithing.
  • The rate of pregnancy requirement is not clear. Please explicitly state a limit with no weasel words...maybe something like "Each woman will be required to be impregnated once every two years, no more."
  • "Possible solutions include..." is unhelpful.

Basically, please don't make me think when I'm reading your proposal. Take what Mari got you, write a new version based on it, and say "Here's our counteroffer." If you want to have some flexibility, spell everything out numerically and be clear about which items are dealbreakers and which are not.


Again, I want to be very clear: Once voting closes, I'm not going to ask clarifying questions, I'm going to write what I understand to be in the plan. I'm giving y'all a lot of extra space to spell out what you're looking for, so if there is anything unclear or confusing and that results in a deal that you didn't want...y'all are stuck with it, and no complaints will be considered. If that means that one of your dealbreakers was not in the final agreement because it was not clear to me, y'all don't get to bitch or whine about evil genies or blah blah blah. It's on y'all to clearly communicate what you want. I'm a bit more spoonful than I've been lately so I'll try to work with you on this but I can't promise how often I'll be able to check in.


Wait, this setting has cannons? They know about gunpowder?
No. What you're reading is a translation from ElementalNationsese to English and, as anyone who has done translation work will tell you, idiomatic translation requires some flexibility. The term that Hazō used could be literally translated as 'rodent destroyer of stupid feet', but that doesn't come across well so @Velorien chose to use 'loose cannon'. Likewise, the phrase "Let's try to have her pointed away from us" was an idiomatic version of the literal 'bait away with balls of scented wax'.
 
Looking over the plans currently on offer, I see that none of them seeks to preserve Goketsu's regional monopoly on Iron Nerve, nor give Goketsu a shot at keep any Sharingan users that might develop locally, including Hazo. Are these then things that the HiveMind has at some point decided it's clearly okay with?

The Uchiha are desperate for both ninja and bringing up sharingan wielders as fast as possible, the sharingan potential babies are the whole reaon this whole deal is even possible. Try to take that off the table and we might as well not have a deal. We could instead argue to have uchiha children born with IN marry or be adopted into the Goketsu in exchange for the sharingan wielders being married into the Uchiha family.

As for Hazo himself, again I sincerely doubt he has the sharingan unless he's just a late bloomer which is unlikely, but let's say he did have the sharingan and marries into the Uchiha. Hazo would be going into the clan as both one of their oldest ninja (since Itachi killed all then all a decade ago) and a wielder of their super precious bloodline ability, which makes both his position as an elite member of the Uchiha clan and a future elder/leader sort of inevitable. If Naruto will be the Goketsu's "official" clan head anyway, would it really be such a bad thing if we have Hazo, a person the players know for fact wants nothing more than to push for Goketsu and Uplift advancement, take on a leadership position in Konoha's oldest living clan?

I'm just saying, it wouldn't be a bad position to be in.
 
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Edit: This isn't funny! I perfectly predicted her behaviour; she played right into our hands. I demand acknowledgment!
@Velorien
Mori says, "What sign?"
Hazou walks up to the sign and points-- then stares at the text.
"Any Goketsu referencing this sign owes Mori an additional favor or loses one of their own, whichever Mori pleases."
 
Ehh...more like it's something we could reasonably throw out: "We'll let you vote for the Hyuuga so long as you make sure that Hiashi still loses; if Hiashi wins, the deal's on, otherwise it's off."

How would the Uchiha know better than the Goketsu whether Hiashi's going to win or not? They have one ninja whose social spec is almost certainly lower than Mari's and even she doesn't have perfect information.
 
How would the Uchiha know better than the Goketsu whether Hiashi's going to win or not? They have one ninja whose social spec is almost certainly lower than Mari's and even she doesn't have perfect information.

Why would they have to know whether Hiashi's going to win or not? They'd just have to use their own best judgment on what efforts would be necessary to prevent Hiashi's victory. This shouldn't be a problem unless we expect them to reliably overestimate his chances of defeat.
 
I will not support any plan that requires separating infants from their mothers.
How about children are Uchiha from birth, but they live in the Gouketsu compound until age five?
(Alternatively, mother and child go back to Uchiha.)
 
I will not support any plan that requires separating infants from their mothers.
How about children are Uchiha from birth, but they live in the Gouketsu compound until age five?
(Alternatively, mother and child go back to Uchiha.)
Well the mothers already have full visitation rights I believe, we're mostly pushing for Hazo also having the right to interact with his children. Keeping the the children up until they turn 5 wouldn't be unreasonable, the Uchiha would definitely save money not having to support a bunch of kids for at least a few extra years, but that's pretty cruel to the kids. Arguably more so then just outright raising them in the Uchiha compound with their mothers visiting whenever they have time.
 
Why would they have to know whether Hiashi's going to win or not? They'd just have to use their own best judgment on what efforts would be necessary to prevent Hiashi's victory.

Why risk the failure point at all? I can't see it buying additional leeway in the deal unless it represents a real and substantial risk. Either the Uchiha just take the safe line of "no matter who wins, we're fine" and vote for Hyuuga, or you put the onus of execution on them (and therefore the QM), creating the chance that they'll screw up.

I don't see how the risk-reward of including that point is remotely in your favor, since you primarily care about the deal in the context of Hiashi not winning the hat; the other benefits of the deal are pretty irrelevant compared to the true existential risk that Hiashi's Kagedom has been hyped as. Whichever part of the deal interfaces with the Kage vote should be ironclad so that you can move on to shoring up your existing votes and flipping more of Hiashi's. It wouldn't surprise me if the Hyuuga had 1-2+ votes of their own ready to flip (though with Hiashi out of commission this entire time their reach is certainly not infinite) and it's entirely possible in a simulationist universe that your enemies perform maneuvers which your allies are unaware of and unable to counter.

Given that they only have one ninja, I don't find it implausible at all that the Uchiha might think you already have the vote won with the Hagoromo flip and there is no need for them to risk their necks; they'll just vote for Hyuuga. If you're giving them the option, from a game theoretic perspective it's certainly more advantageous for them than the deal Mari negotiated. They profit the same if you win and risk nothing if you lose.
 
I'm down to assasinate Hiashi, but we should really e setting the groundwork up now to do it.
tbh, as long as he's not Hokage and systematically tearing apart everything we hold dear, I'm inclined to keep our Taijutsu god in Leaf's roster so Leaf doesn't look weaker than it already does.

He's frustrating and ideologically opposed to us and has a lot of resources to draw upon, but those are all obstacles as long as he's not Hokage, and meanwhile him helping keep Leaf safe and strong is very useful to us, so on net I think he's worth more to us alive.
 
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