Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Of course we want to keep Akane alive, why are you talking about her?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The exchange would be "give the Uchiha that leeway, but if Hiashi wins the entire deal is off." So the last sentence isn't accurate - they risk losing out on the deal.
The post you quoted was specifically in response to someone suggesting we should stick with Leaf rather than going missing-nin in the event of Hiashi winning the election - the implication, presumably, being that assassinating Hiashi would be necessary for such a course to be viable.
Sorry if I missed it: has there been any further word about whether clanless non-jōnin sealmasters receive tax payments the same as the jōnin? If this were the case, then adopting them wouldn't count against the 2 clanless adoptions limit, just as jōnin don't count, right?
Maybe we could teach clanless ninja sealing, then adopt them! Although:
- Even if it were legal, non-funding clans certainly wouldn't be happy about it. (But the reasonnable ones would understand that the main consequence is that Leaf has more sealmasters, which is good.)
- It would probably take a very long time before anyone we teach would be skilled enough to count as a sealmaster regarding tax payments.
- The moment we would want to adopt them would be the moment they don't need it anymore, just like the jōnin. Moreover, they would probably be flooded with offers of adoption from other clans. Something to negociate now, as part of the deal that says we teach them sealing?
- Location
- Kiev, Ukraine
Just a friendly reminder that there is NO time limit specified on Sharinganers transfers to Uchiha, which means that with current deal Hazou's grand-grand child could be taken away by Uchiha on legal ground. At which point we may well be at war with them, since the only difference between Uchiha and Hyuuga FMPOV is that former is not in power.
Also, bloodlines are the Most valuable thing to trade in EN. It's more valuable than Summoning Scrolls, land, technics. The reason for this is it is a lot harder to stole bloodlines than any of the above.
And we're not arguing that Uchiha will get not one, but two bloodlines, for Jashin's sake? Are we all out of our damned minds?
Also, bloodlines are the Most valuable thing to trade in EN. It's more valuable than Summoning Scrolls, land, technics. The reason for this is it is a lot harder to stole bloodlines than any of the above.
And we're not arguing that Uchiha will get not one, but two bloodlines, for Jashin's sake? Are we all out of our damned minds?
- Location
- Italy
So, i noted three thing.
1)The IN children clause here seems more similar to "Let's grow them together, but they are uchiha" while we want the IN children in Goketsu, full stop, we are not gonna seal our bloodline for such a small price.
2)We need to point out that sharingan deal applies only to these children, not other children born from Hazou marriage/Hazou unlocking Sharingan.
3)It doesn't talk about consent and how to be sure the mothers really want to be part of the "deal".
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
- That's not going to happen, is the problem. The Uchiha need more ninja, and ninja with a chance of making Sharigan more likely are especially coveted, for inbreeding reasons.
- No, the entire point of that part of the deal from their perspective is for it to apply to children they would not otherwise get
- This one I'll agree with.
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The goal should be to achieve a more than certain victory for the hat, not screw around.
- Location
- Italy
The Uchiha need more ninja, and they are giving us their abstention(Not Vote) in exchange for more ninja, a bloodline meanwhile is the most precious thing you can offer.
They want it? They need to give something equivalent, because if we go with a bloodline as negotiation, i'm fairly sure at least half of the clans would give us their vote for it.
Also, it will cost us our sealing monopoly and we would lose it for...practically nothing, because the primary things they want is more ninja, it's pretty silly.
So we're throwing Hazou descendant,maybe even son, under the bus for no reason? Do we want to give the Uchiha our firstborn too at this point(I mean, under this deal we could give it to them, so...).
The Uchiha want ninja for the vote, and we're giving a bloodline and the possibility of stealing our descendant and family on top of that, for what? Bonus for bad-faith?
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Correction, it is the only Uchiha ninja that we know of.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Bluntly speaking: IN has nothing on the Sharigan. The Sharigan is just plain cheating. And they don't want it. That is what you don't seem to get. They care nothing about IN - except that it is likely that IN + Uchiha = much higher Sharigan chance.
For all we know this entire point is meaningless, because Sharigan will always be dominant when IN + Uchiha have kids that actually inherit a bloodline. That would be what the Uchiha wish was the case.
We aren't losing our sealing monopoly. We never had a sealing monopoly.
A political marriage to a founding clan is not "thrown under the bus". It isn't ideal, but for a clan it isn't unusual or unexpected. Considering this deal is likely to lead to a lot of socializing across the clans anyway, it probably won't cause any real issues.
I'm not sure what you mean by "bonus for bad-faith" unless you are being really paranoid about their intentions.
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Mari: I am told that some of the VIHH don't trust my political judgement about the trustworthiness of our allies.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
There's also the constant "sealing monopoly" thing. ...I'm not sure where they got the impression we have a sealing monopoly from, but we don't. Nor is there any chance of us getting one. And considering IN is just Sharigan spread through the whole body it is likely they can do the "see seal - know seal" thing too. Probably better than we can. (aka they might not even need to make the calligraphy check.)
- Location
- Italy
No Ninja sane enough to survive ten minute alive s would say no to another bloodline, inferior or not, if only because it means more adaptability, so i don't see from where this "the Uchiha don't want the IN" comes from, if it is true it only means Itachi killed the only sensible Uchihas still alive.
But if it is so,and they don't want the IN, we can simply promise to marry the IN children to the Uchiha when they are of age.
It will break Hazou Psyche like glass, but the IN remain in home, at least we could use it to justify Hazou going Full Itachi and commit another Uchiha massacre.
On the sealing monopoly, it was incorrect, i admit it, let's a call it a "massive and unfair advantage".
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The Hyuga tried to get rid of the Minami.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
To such an extent the Minami ended up forming their own clan, instead of staying as part of the Hyuuga.
Never underestimate the stupidity of purists and supremacists of any sort.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Hazou's pretty much the only option the Uchiha have for getting back on track within the next generation. They aren't going to say no to him when most of his concerns are "Yeah all that politics shit is great but we need to make sure the mothers and children are taken care of. Also, visitation rights and/or dual parenting options for the fathers too?" , especially when he's not trying to nickel and dime them over money and political favors.
It's not like genetically removed members of your bramch bloodline that aren't loyal to said branch just fall out of the sky. It's Hazou or bust.
It's not like genetically removed members of your bramch bloodline that aren't loyal to said branch just fall out of the sky. It's Hazou or bust.
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- Location
- Kiev, Ukraine
Oh, FFS!
*MadEye Moody facepalms hard, pats @Lord Marshal on the back and apparates to Australia to not see this trainwreck of optimism*
I would've done the same but I don't know how to apparate.
Yet
*MadEye Moody facepalms hard, pats @Lord Marshal on the back and apparates to Australia to not see this trainwreck of optimism*
I would've done the same but I don't know how to apparate.
Yet
- Location
- Academy City
- Pronouns
- They
A clever misdirection, but I know full well if you couldn't apparate you would never admit to it, so this is obviously a double bluff.
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- Location
- United States
I won't have the opportunity to check here much, so I've drafted these, please consider/include in a final plan:
Deal Requirements (deal is off without these)
1) If Hiashi becomes Hokage, no matter what is agreed to, then the deal will be voided and considered as if nothing was ever signed. Therefore, the deal will not go into effect until February 1 (both since that is after the Hokage vote and because we will need time to prepare for the adoptions).
2) The rate of births required from the Young Uchiha Women who are being adopted in order to produce children (hereinafter "YUW") appears to be unsafe/unhealthy for mother and/or child. Therefore, we require this to be changed to a rate matching what Tsunade, or another high ranking Leaf Hospital medical ninja staff, not related to Goketsu or Uchiha (hereinafter "ToLHs"), considers safe - both generally for women and specifically for each mother in particular based on a medical assessment after each pregnancy concludes. Therefore, the rate will be changed to
2a) once every X years, until 5 pregnancies occur, where X is not greater than 3, with X to be determined after consultation with ToLHs, or;
2b) 11 pregnancies each year for five years, but a sufficient number of additional YUW will be provided in order to appropriately stagger the pregnancies; or
2c) remain the same if ToLHs has no concerns.
3) If a YUW is deemed medically unsafe, estimated by ToLHs with a greater than 10% chance of death or disability to the YUW, to get pregnant again, or unable to get pregnant again, at any point, then they will not be required to do so, nor will they be required to undergo a surgery/medical ninjutsu estimated by ToLHs with a greater than 10% chance of death or disability to render a future pregnancy safe. All pregnancies out of 5 that YUW had not yet fulfilled will be considered as if they had been fulfilled, and the Goketsu will not be required to substitute that YUW with another or produce additional pregnancies through the remaining YUW. The Uchiha produced a defective YUW in this circumstance.
4) All YUW have the right to stop participating, the Goketsu will not impregnate anybody against their will. The Uchiha may provide another YUW within one month as an alternative if a YUW opts to discontinue, whether permanently or temporarily, and the remainder of the pregnancy obligation will switch from the original member of the YUW to the replacement YUW. Any future children from the original YUW in this circumstance will not be considered part of this agreement. If the Uchiha decline to, or are unable to, provide an alternative YUW within the month then all pregnancies out of 5 that YUW had not yet fulfilled will be considered as if they had been fulfilled, and the Goketsu will not be required to substitute that YUW with another or produce additional pregnancies through the remaining YUW.
5) Acknowledging that adoption terms occur upon birth, the Goketsu will not separate families when it is avoidable to do so. Therefore, until a YUW has given birth to 5 children all their children shall reside with the Goketsu and be under the exclusive Goketsu chain of command.
6) All polygestational YUW will be considered to have fulfilled a pregnancy for each within their womb, i.e. twins count as two pregnancies.
7) All bloodlines, with the exception of a manifested Sharingan, will be adopted back into the Goketsu as soon as a bloodline is identified. This is to preserve clan secrets and to educate the child in their bloodline. No additional obligations accrue to the Goketsu if this occurs.
8) Any Goketsu who manifests a Sharingan will not be required to adopt into or marry into the Uchiha if they have attained the rank of Chunin.
9) If any Goketsu or child of a YUW who possesses another bloodline manifests the Sharingan they shall not be permitted to disclose any details about their bloodline to the Uchiha.
10) Any descendant of a YUW who possesses another bloodline other than the Sharingan will be adopted into the Goketsu as soon as a bloodline is identified. This is to preserve clan secrets and to educate the child in their bloodline. No additional obligations accrue to the Goketsu if this occurs.
Deal Requirements (deal is off without these)
1) If Hiashi becomes Hokage, no matter what is agreed to, then the deal will be voided and considered as if nothing was ever signed. Therefore, the deal will not go into effect until February 1 (both since that is after the Hokage vote and because we will need time to prepare for the adoptions).
2) The rate of births required from the Young Uchiha Women who are being adopted in order to produce children (hereinafter "YUW") appears to be unsafe/unhealthy for mother and/or child. Therefore, we require this to be changed to a rate matching what Tsunade, or another high ranking Leaf Hospital medical ninja staff, not related to Goketsu or Uchiha (hereinafter "ToLHs"), considers safe - both generally for women and specifically for each mother in particular based on a medical assessment after each pregnancy concludes. Therefore, the rate will be changed to
2a) once every X years, until 5 pregnancies occur, where X is not greater than 3, with X to be determined after consultation with ToLHs, or;
2b) 11 pregnancies each year for five years, but a sufficient number of additional YUW will be provided in order to appropriately stagger the pregnancies; or
2c) remain the same if ToLHs has no concerns.
3) If a YUW is deemed medically unsafe, estimated by ToLHs with a greater than 10% chance of death or disability to the YUW, to get pregnant again, or unable to get pregnant again, at any point, then they will not be required to do so, nor will they be required to undergo a surgery/medical ninjutsu estimated by ToLHs with a greater than 10% chance of death or disability to render a future pregnancy safe. All pregnancies out of 5 that YUW had not yet fulfilled will be considered as if they had been fulfilled, and the Goketsu will not be required to substitute that YUW with another or produce additional pregnancies through the remaining YUW. The Uchiha produced a defective YUW in this circumstance.
4) All YUW have the right to stop participating, the Goketsu will not impregnate anybody against their will. The Uchiha may provide another YUW within one month as an alternative if a YUW opts to discontinue, whether permanently or temporarily, and the remainder of the pregnancy obligation will switch from the original member of the YUW to the replacement YUW. Any future children from the original YUW in this circumstance will not be considered part of this agreement. If the Uchiha decline to, or are unable to, provide an alternative YUW within the month then all pregnancies out of 5 that YUW had not yet fulfilled will be considered as if they had been fulfilled, and the Goketsu will not be required to substitute that YUW with another or produce additional pregnancies through the remaining YUW.
5) Acknowledging that adoption terms occur upon birth, the Goketsu will not separate families when it is avoidable to do so. Therefore, until a YUW has given birth to 5 children all their children shall reside with the Goketsu and be under the exclusive Goketsu chain of command.
6) All polygestational YUW will be considered to have fulfilled a pregnancy for each within their womb, i.e. twins count as two pregnancies.
7) All bloodlines, with the exception of a manifested Sharingan, will be adopted back into the Goketsu as soon as a bloodline is identified. This is to preserve clan secrets and to educate the child in their bloodline. No additional obligations accrue to the Goketsu if this occurs.
8) Any Goketsu who manifests a Sharingan will not be required to adopt into or marry into the Uchiha if they have attained the rank of Chunin.
9) If any Goketsu or child of a YUW who possesses another bloodline manifests the Sharingan they shall not be permitted to disclose any details about their bloodline to the Uchiha.
10) Any descendant of a YUW who possesses another bloodline other than the Sharingan will be adopted into the Goketsu as soon as a bloodline is identified. This is to preserve clan secrets and to educate the child in their bloodline. No additional obligations accrue to the Goketsu if this occurs.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I feel like some of these are a bit hardline, but this is still pretty solid.
(So much for "My skillset isn't really super applicable" , eh?
)
- Location
- United States
I feel like some of these are a bit hardline, but this is still pretty solid.
(So much for "My skillset isn't really super applicable" , eh?
I never need to write contracts *shrug*.
Incidentally, 7 is redundant as it's included within 10. Whoops.
- Location
- Kiev, Ukraine
That @Lailoken bite itches. Like, a lot.
Can you add something about the deal being cancelled if Uchiha try to force or trick said secrets from adoptees? Current wording implies that if secret becomes known to Uchiha it is a fault of a child, not Uchiha's
Can you add something about the deal being cancelled if Uchiha try to force or trick said secrets from adoptees? Current wording implies that if secret becomes known to Uchiha it is a fault of a child, not Uchiha's
- Location
- Yes.
Suggested Changes to the Uchiha Deal:
Gouketsu Key Contentions and Possible Solutions: If any of these contentions are not solved to our satisfaction, we will not sign the contract. Bulleted beneath each Key Contention are details and/or possible solutions to the contention.
- None of the eleven (11) civilian women will at any point be threatened, blackmailed, coerced, or in any other way be made to bear children against their will. At any point, any one of the civilian women may choose to 'opt out' of the deal, and may choose to remain within the Gouketsu Clan or be re-adopted into the Uchiha Clan as she sees fit.
- The Uchiha Clan is free to select another healthy civilian woman to be adopted into the Gouketsu Clan. This woman will continue the previous woman's obligations under the same terms of the deal.
- Should adoption not be feasible, the Gouketsu Clan will ensure that the total number of pregnancies (55) remains the same, and will ensure another pregnancy from the remaining women as soon as is healthy to do so.
- To ensure the safety of the eleven (11) civilian women, a competent medical professional will be enlisted to confirm whether or not each woman is capable of giving birth with minimal complications (NB: the chances of this woman dying or being otherwise permanently weakened from the ordeal is less than 5%). Should this medical professional deem it so, the rate OR number of births for this woman must be reduced or ended entirely.
- The Uchiha Clan is free to select another healthy civilian woman to be adopted into the Gouketsu Clan. This woman will continue the previous woman's obligations under the same terms of the deal.
- Should adoption not be feasible, the Gouketsu Clan will ensure that the total number of pregnancies (55) remains the same, and will ensure another pregnancy from the remaining women as soon as is healthy to do so.
- Parents of any child born and immediately adopted or married into the Uchiha Clan will be allowed to be heavily involved in the raising of the child until said child has reached his or her age of majority. This includes any children born under the eleven (11) civilian women adopted from this deal, as well as any future children who develop the Sharingan.
- Ideally, the Gouketsu and Uchiha Clans may choose to raise these children together under dual-clan membership, to be applied at birth. This means that they will be considered to be both of the Uchiha AND the Gouketsu Clans, though their status as Uchiha Clan will take precedence.
- If this is agreed to, the Gouketsu Clan offers to shoulder the cost of raising these children, which includes but is not limited to: monetary costs, training, general child rearing, etc., until they reach their legal age of majority, after which point they will move into the Uchiha Clan compound.
- Furthermore, if this is agreed to, the Gouketsu Clan is willing to train these children to prevent issues arising from the Iron Nerve bloodline from occuring, and may offer them tutoring in certain clan secrets (without being said aloud, this means teaching them details on the Iron Nerve). Any clan secret training will be understood to be not taught to anyone outside of the Gouketsu Clan. Additionally, the Gouketsu is willing to teach them non-clan secret techniques and outfit them with seal loadouts at our discretion.
- If the above arrangement cannot be achieved, then at the bare minimum, the Gouketsu Clan requires the right to visit these children as often as they desire."
- Ideally, the Gouketsu and Uchiha Clans may choose to raise these children together under dual-clan membership, to be applied at birth. This means that they will be considered to be both of the Uchiha AND the Gouketsu Clans, though their status as Uchiha Clan will take precedence.
Gouketsu Non-Key Contentions: These are contentions that we want but are willing to drop entirely if they can not be resolved.
- The Gouketsu Clan would like the Uchiha Clan to vote for our candidate instead of abstaining from the vote. The Gouketsu Clan recognize the danger it would put the Uchiha Clan in due to retailation from the Hyuuga Clan, and would ask them if any sum of the concessions we offer are sufficient; and if not, what concessions would the Gouketsu Clan need to bring in order to change this.
- If the concessions are equivalent to some large monetary sum paid upfront or over time, political markers, or trade deals favourable to the Uchiha, the Gouketsu Clan would be willing to accept these concessions. If the concessions would require major moral failures, such as rejection of Key Contentions as stated above, the Gouketsu Clan would not be willing to accept these concessions.
Additional Concessions to Contentions: In addition to solutions to specific contentions, these are general concessions that may be added to resolve any contention. Specifics are to be determined based on the magnitude of the contention and how much is necessary to 'balance the scales'. Concessions are listed in order of decreasing priority.
- The Gouketsu Clan offers an increased payment totaling up to R1,500,000 per month to the Uchiha Clan, and/or duration for up to 1 additional year.
- The Gouketsu Clan offers to reduce the amount or duration of the 5% Uchiha income net of basic clan expenses, and are willing to void this entirely.
- The Gouketsu Clan offers to reduce the total number of political markers given upfront by the Uchiha Clan down to 3.
- The Gouketsu Clan offers to void political markers the Uchiha Clan is obligated to give for every year a child is adopted into the Uchiha.
- The Gouketsu Clan offers to void political markers the Uchiha Clan is obligated to give for every year a child who develops the Sharingan is adopted.
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