PSA: QM mistake, prior decision reversed
We recently announced that Force Claws combine natively with Roki. That was a mistake; it should have required a stunt -- Watsonian, the benefit they provide is washed out by you also needing to focus on not cutting yourself into a bazillion pieces, so you need to practice using them effectively without hurting yourself. Doylist, we're worried about setting a precedent where easily-acquirable advantages combine natively, since then we have to ask why everyone doesn't have those.
This mistake was only announced an hour-ish ago and should not have much influenced discussion / planning yet, so we're quickly reversing ourselves. The correct answer is:
Yes, Force Claws add to the roll to get Roki but require a stunt to combine with Taijutsu.
To clarify, is the stunt we are buying a buff-stacking stunt, or a stunt to reflect the evolution and strengthening of the Roki fighting style integrating seals, like Kagome's blast ring fighting? We do know some fighting styles are stronger than others, so it makes sense that, with effort and gimmicks, some can be improved over time, but I'm not sure if that's what's happening here.
To clarify, is the stunt we are buying a buff-stacking stunt, or a stunt to reflect the evolution and strengthening of the Roki fighting style integrating seals, like Kagome's blast ring fighting? We do know some fighting styles are stronger than others, so it makes sense that, with effort and gimmicks, some can be improved over time, but I'm not sure if that's what's happening here.
Too late to really change anything for the vote, but Mr. Crabs here seems not entirely unwise, and at least somewhat patient. We should probably prep the adventure with him, and ask for a combat evaluation. Like, has he met a Jōnin, or is he just talking out his ass? We're in the afterlife so can chill a bit on sharing basic combat information; the dynamics that pushed against this in life don't make that much sense here.
Welcome!
Barring some early-installment-"of course everyone read the thread," you can keep with the slightly-less-behemothic story-only thread and understand everything, catching up in only 1 to 2 years
Now to be fair many of us do seem to be diagnosed with something, so we can't argue the point.
It isn't that big after all, took me about 6 months to get caught up with the story so and random bits of the chat (only a few months ago so it was pretty much the same size), we can see you again in no time at all
Welcome! I eagerly await further participation from you. By chance, does the other one you refer to involve a character called "Snorri" or is it something else?
You can sort quests by total page count ("replies") on the front page.
Longest thread is a 5.1 million word A Song Of Ice and Fire / D&D 3.5 crossover (444k replies, under 18k pages).
Next is a Warhammer Fantasy Quest (Divided Loyalties) which has almost 17k pages despite having something like a fifth of the actual content. That quest is really good at spurring discussion !
Those are the standout leaders.
Marked For Death is currently in third place, leading the pack, with 3.5 million words for about 10k pages.
The runner-up are a magical girl quest (Puella Magi Adfligo Systema), another Warhammer Fantasy Quest (dynasty of dynamic alcoholism), then an original quest (Paths of Civilization), then a 40k quest (The Long Night Part One) but that one should honestly rank higher because it has a sequel quest... Same for the next runner-up, an original Xianxia quest that also has a long prequel (Threads of Destiny).
This restriction [that Roki doesn't work on non-humans] applies to no other fighting style it just makes Roki worse than all of the rest for no reason. I think it makes sense to have the opponent roll Deceit, and if for whatever reason (mindless, chakra beast, eldritch abomination) that's unfair, roll some fraction of Alt instead.
Yes please. I like the idea of Roki, both sentimentally and thematically. I also never really understood the reasoning behind it not working on non-humans as it seems straightforward to fool, for example, a dog with an aborted motion (think pretending to throw a ball). Even if the QMs agree that it made sense back in the heavy-simulationist reality before Hazo's death, maybe we can ease up on that a bit in this new normal, especially since this doesn't even grant Hazo an advantage over any other fighting style. It merely makes it on par with other basic styles.
First: Roki should have worked against the shrine guardians. I [@Paperclipped] simply forgot to use it, which was my mistake (and I believe @eaglejarl fixed this in his redo of that combat).
Second, we want to say that: yes, other fighting styles will also have times when they do not work for narrative reasons. For instance, Mari's genjutsu-based fighting style won't work at all on non-humans, nor on the rare blindfighter she encounters. Even the Gentle Fist would be less effective against non-human animals, and wouldn't have worked at all on the shrine guardians.
For Roki specifically: Roki is not just "using feints". Every fighting style in the world will at least be familiar with feints, and will probably use them. Roki is a complex, multi-layered series of feints that gradually deceives an opponent into overcommitting to a given action, using the Iron Nerve both to manage these feint-patterns as well as to let Hazō more easily "switch tracks" from one motion to another one. Roki is designed around manipulating people who are using human combat training. Essentially, Hazō (with Mari's help) has dabbled just enough in a variety of martial arts that he is using Roki to exploit specific weaknesses in those styles. This is the reason why Hazō cannot use Roki on Seventh Path residents right now -- he doesn't know enough about their fighting styles, so he can't model what physical motions it would take to deceive (e.g.) a Leopard about his intentions in a predictable, exploitable way.
That said, in the interest of transparency, we should also say: At Taijutsu 50, Hazō would gain the ability to use Roki against Leopards, if he had engaged in three separate combats against them (representing him leveraging a superior understanding of hand-to-hand combat to infer what baits they would be likely to respond to) by that point and spent some downtime developing it (the first combat of his raid, where he did not engage in any combat rolls with the Leopards, wouldn't count here). At that point, he will also know that at some higher level of skill, he might even be able to figure out how to adapt Roki to new opponents mid-combat, after just a handful of rolls. However, it would not be the case still that Roki would work on every opponent.
Lens of Violence my beloved, I shall find you on the Path of Greed....
Lens of Violence
"You weren't fighting like a ninja, Hazou. I've only ever seen things that came out of a rift fight like that."
XP cost: 100
Prereq: Be a Kurosawa who tried to read a Summoning Scroll.
Kill, Repeat: TYS points apply to CQC physical combat stats (Taijutsu, Melee Weapons, or Ninjutsu that serve as short-range weapons (e.g. Water Whip, Rasengan, etc) Hazō must go full-lethal while in this alien mindset.
Who Cares About the Meat?: Hazou takes 2 additional physical stress if damaged while in this alien mindset.
edit: Oh yeah, new players. It's an old rejected/retconned combat stunt. It's still so cool....
That said, in the interest of transparency, we should also say: At Taijutsu 50, Hazō would gain the ability to use Roki against Leopards, if he had engaged in three separate combats against them (representing him leveraging a superior understanding of hand-to-hand combat to infer what baits they would be likely to respond to) by that point and spent some downtime developing it (the first combat of his raid, where he did not engage in any combat rolls with the Leopards, wouldn't count here). At that point, he will also know that at some higher level of skill, he might even be able to figure out how to adapt Roki to new opponents mid-combat, after just a handful of rolls. However, it would not be the case still that Roki would work on every opponent.
In the same way that you guys would consider eventually consider upgrading Roki (if we raised Taijutsu, fought more varied types of enemies, and then invested time into upgrading the stunt) would you guys be willing to consider upgrading the stunt to include Force Claws?
PSA: QM mistake, prior decision reversed
We recently announced that Force Claws combine natively with Roki. That was a mistake; it should have required a stunt -- Watsonian, the benefit they provide is washed out by you also needing to focus on not cutting yourself into a bazillion pieces, so you need to practice using them effectively without hurting yourself. Doylist, we're worried about setting a precedent where easily-acquirable advantages combine natively, since then we have to ask why everyone doesn't have those.
This mistake was only announced an hour-ish ago and should not have much influenced discussion / planning yet, so we're quickly reversing ourselves. The correct answer is:
Yes, Force Claws add to the roll to get Roki but require a stunt to combine with Taijutsu
Not necessarily a straightforward combination of the bonuses, but a significant step up from either bonus (+6/+3 or +AB) that can be applied to combination stunts purchased for Force Claws.
Say something like +2AB/ +AB if he wins Roki and +AB/ +AB/2 if he loses it. (Numbers completely made up)
This sidesteps the issue of random seals natively combining (IMO) since:
1) You need to invest extra XP and IC time for the Stunt
2) What you get out is not quite as good as combining the bonuses
3) The seals and stunts need to be thematically related
4) The improvements are gatekept by high base stats. How many ninja are a jounin sealmaster or have unfettered access to one and also have jounin Taijutsu? If it takes hundreds of FCs to practice enough for the improved stunt that's going to be prohibitive to basically anyone who isn't a sealmaster themselves.
Our main issue carrying Roki forward is that we just have better buffs to use, but if allowing Hazou to leverage his other advantages as a character can improve that initial buff at the cost of XP and IC time we can make something that is uniquely his that he can carry to essiehood.
PONWOG Since Hazō is very good at outsmarting himself, it seems reasonable that, at sufficient levels of Taijutsu, he should be able to gain the benefits of Roki when punching himself in the face.
In the same way that you guys would consider eventually consider upgrading Roki (if we raised Taijutsu, fought more varied types of enemies, and then invested time into upgrading the stunt) would you guys be willing to consider upgrading the stunt to include Force Claws?
PONWOG It seems unlikely. There's a difference between learning to use a bluff-based combat style to bluff new kinds of target and turning a taijutsu style into a melee weapon style.
Chapter 714, Part 2: The Cat(?) Lady of the Cross
"But that's enough about the Red Glow," Mother Kiriko said, absently scritching one of her "kitties" under the proboscis. It gave a satisfied buzz. "You wanted to know more about the general area, and with such a fine gift, you've more than earned my time until I have to feed my little darlings."
Mother Kiriko's living room was a pleasant, well-decorated space with skilfully-crafted dark wood furniture (after enough time around the Ishiharas, Hazō knew a well-fitted joint when he saw one) and vibrant carpets and wall hangings giving colour to what otherwise could have been drab grey stone. Shelves here and there held bizarre knick-knacks Hazō had never seen the likes of before, some of them uncomfortably organic. Mother Kiriko herself, a stout middle-aged woman who looked like she'd less grown up and more been hacked out of a boulder straight into her present shape, was immersed in a comfy-looking armchair opposite his more easily-escapable stool.
Well, all of that was almost right. Everything, without exception and including Mother Kiriko, was in some way scratched, chewed, charred, melted, knocked down, or in a state of partial disassembly.
Even now, one of the culprits was chewing determinedly on Hazō's sandal, undeterred by the fact that it had no teeth and, quite possibly, no digestive system. Looking at the rest of Mother Kiriko's twenty or so (visible) "kitties", Hazō was aware he was getting off lightly.
"Don't mind the little darlings," Mother Kiriko cooed. "They're just excited to see a new guest. Chōchin there is a fresh rescuee, from my last trip into the Wilds, and she's still getting used to people."
"Nothing to worry about," Hazō assured her, hoping he was just imagining the very faint cackling sound. "So about the general area…"
Mother Kiriko nodded. "You must have noticed that people around here don't use cardinal directions much. There aren't any maps, points of reference aren't exactly fixed, and sometimes you get places like the Red Glow that move around depending on who's looking. You are lucky enough to be in Jūjigai, so you can use the Jūjigai standard. This arm of the cross, where the mayor's house is, points east. The others are south, west, and north, in the usual arrangement. Other places have other standards, if they have any at all, so you be careful taking directions there."
"I see," Hazō said. "So if I came here from the Piercing Spires…?"
"That's southeast by the Jūjigai standard. The south is a strange place; you did well getting out of there. I spent a while in the area rescuing kitties, but the only one that would come home with me is little Akateko." She gestured to a bright red finger-creature that looked a lot more evolved than the ones Hazō had seen, even having a rudimentary palm. It was hanging off a high shelf, having just knocked down a statuette of a young woman.
"You want to be careful heading north, though," Mother Kiriko said. "Us commoners are fine, but a ninja might get press-ganged into the War of the Elemental Nations."
Hazō sat up straight, instantly alert, and not just because the movement made a "kitty" studded with eyes suddenly swivel them all to point in his direction. "Which nations?"
If it was the dead of Leaf or Mist…
"It's the Country of Wood to the north and the Country of Metal to the northeast. They're really more city-states with delusions of grandeur, but they claim that's the true shape of a country, now they don't need civilians for food.
"They've been at war as long as anyone can remember–for what that's worth. Formally, they're fighting over who's really descended from the Sage of Six Paths and has the right to rule the afterlife for him until he comes back. Informally, they're fighting over the shimmers, which are more common in that area. Realistically, I'm pretty sure they're fighting because they're ninja and it's what they do. I guess you could join one of them if you're into that sort of thing. They say the pay is good and you can do all the killing you want without feeling guilty–though, of course, Wood and Metal deliver criminals to us just like everyone else."
That sounded dangerous, but not unpromising, Hazō decided. An eternal ninja war sounded like a good place to pick up useful ninja secrets, and a land rich with shimmers would also be a decent place to look for a genjutsu cult. Why, Hazō could even end up adding one or both of them to the list of factions from which he'd gone missing. (Then again, they also had the best odds of catching him and getting him fed to Amaterasu.)
"Supposing I wanted to go to one of those," Hazō asked, "what are the main differences?"
"I'm not an expert on ninja," Mother Kiriko said. "Wood's supposed to be a pugnocracy. Every so often, all the ninja get together and fight it out, and the last one standing gets to be Mokukage until the next election. Metal is a bolbitocracy, if you'll believe it, one of those deals where whichever ninja can convince the others he'll be the best leader becomes Kanekage. If you ask me, a brawl to the death sounds much more sensible and ninja-like.
"I do deal with them sometimes, usually when they come down with prisoner deliveries. Oh, they say they're finally where they belong, in a place where they don't have to waste time on civilians and can focus on what really matters. But they take missions just like they used to, which for me is usually finding more kitties, and they always walk away satisfied. I guess you really can't get away from what you are.
"Oh, there's also the Monastery of Mu, on a peak on the border. They say that's where a lot of ninja go when they're fed up with the fighting and want to retire safely. Nobody knows what goes on there, and I can't tell you where it is."
"Because you don't know or because it's a secret?" Hazō clarified.
Hazō: Athletics 45 +0 = 45 vs TN 20
Hazō succeeds.
The next moment he ducked urgently backwards, and the "kitty" about to fall on his head ended up in his lap ahead.
"Down, Tsuchinoko," Mother Kiriko snapped. The fat snake creature hissed reluctantly, then slithered away, and Hazō lost sight of it almost instantly in the mess of the room.
"Because no one knows," Mother Kiriko said. "That's a valuable tip I'm giving you. The only way to get to the Monastery of Mu is to have no idea where it is. If you know anything about it, you've got to get rid of those memories before you can find it."
Not a priority, then.
"Anywhere else of interest?"
"The Wilds to the north, west of Wood," Mother Kiriko said. "That's where I usually go to rescue new kitties. Sometimes I get the ninja to escort me–it's good combat practice for them, and there are uncontested shimmers–but I prefer to stick to the shallow Wilds where it's safe enough for an experienced traveller."
There's a bunch of stuff that we might retroactively want to fit into this conversation because it's a good place to add worldbuilding / plot hooks / etc.
If we do add anything, we will edit it in here and also post it to the thread in a separate post so that people don't have to go back and re-read to figure out what is new.
"What about west of Jūjigai?" Hazō asked.
Mother Kiriko shrugged. Dislodged by the movement, a small, almost spherical "kitty" rolled off her shoulder and onto the floor, where it squeaked in complaint.
"I don't remember," she said dismissively, "which means they can't have been important memories–in other words, probably no kitties to rescue there. Just ordinary places for ordinary people to live. Or maybe it's the other kind, where it's too dangerous even with a ninja escort. If you go there, or anywhere else, and find some kitties, do bring them back to me. I've got some choice rewards from the ninja and the Wilds that would make it worth the trouble."
"I'll take it under advisement," Hazō agreed. With that, he bid his farewells before he had to find out what Mother Kiriko fed her "kitties", and set out to seek the Red Glow–though not before extracting "dear little Obariyon, she so loves to be taken to new places" from inside his backpack.
PONWOG It seems unlikely. There's a difference between learning to use a bluff-based combat style to bluff new kinds of target and turning a taijutsu style into a melee weapon style
Even now, one of the culprits was chewing determinedly on Hazō's sandal, undeterred by the fact that it had no teeth and, quite possibly, no digestive system. Looking at the rest of Mother Kiriko's twenty or so (visible) "kitties", Hazō was aware he was getting off lightly
What distinguishes the "kitties" from each other? Are they just (relatively) harmless (relatively) small creatures from the afterlife? Any unifying characteristics?
If we run into something how can we tell if Mother Kiriko would like it?
What distinguishes the "kitties" from each other? Are they just (relatively) harmless (relatively) small creatures from the afterlife? Any unifying characteristics?
If we run into something how can we tell if Mother Kiriko would like it?
Mother Kiriko seems to think it's obvious when something is a "kitty". Hazō couldn't identify any unifying features among the "kitties" (aside from relatively small size and possibly relative harmlessness), but perhaps you can.
Mother Kiriko seems to think it's obvious when something is a "kitty". Hazō couldn't identify any unifying features among the "kitties" (aside from relatively small size and possibly relative harmlessness), but perhaps you can.
Did you guys get the chance to get together and discuss [the six], I'm kinda curious what it is. If it's a term to refer to gods in general or what not. We know of 4(?) gods so far, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Izanagi, and Izanami. All from the Hermit.
