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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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faflec said:
In addition to that...we might want to think about our next targets, now that we have the Hagoromo and Uchiha deals mostly-settled. Is it worth pursuing the Aburame or Inuzuka? Should we focus on keeping Hiashi from turning our allies?

On another note, what about Mari? Should we stage an intervention with her, now that we seem to have the advantage?
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Just change her marching orders to, "get healthy", or something equivalent.



faflec said:
I would observe that the Kurosawa being an offshoot of the Uchiha clan is well-known enough for Jiraiya to have known the fact before Hazou even told him about them getting Sharingans. Wouldn't we just have to omit the details of the long-term plan to Ami (i.e., just say that every once in a while we'll have to give up one of Hazou's kids to the Uchiha)?

Not saying I want us to tell her, just making a note.
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If The Ami enters your lightcone she already knows it in its entirety.



Walter said:
the whole idea of the 'favors' is just silly.

They are stuff you can ask her for. But she can say no.

That's...just talking. You can talk to Keiko and ask a favor and she might say no or she might do it.

But with Ami it is this ridiculous formalized rigmarole, and all of the pluses of that are on her side.
She does something people disapprove of? It must be at the behest of one of her favor holders, we need to earn her goodwill so she'll tell us who made her get us mad.
She wants something? She can offer you the highly valuable Ami Mori FavorCoin (tm), which will allow you to ask her for things that she may or may not do.
People have even been like 'how can we help Ami so that we can accumulate more of these?'
This is to say nothing of the Big Gain of having ninjas come up and reveal what they consider worthy of spending this imaginary nonsense on. Mind reading may be out, but fools throng about shiny things.

As far as why she would betray us?

It wouldn't be betrayal. She is our enemy, a Mist Ninja (the blather about her working on behalf of/organizing an intervillage association in a world where sending mail to another village gest you executed is transparent nonsense). If we walk up to her and give her information she will exploit it for the benefit of her master, the Kage of her village, like all ninjas always do.
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Walter said:
I...obviously she is untrustworthy. She is a ninja. What is happening? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
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You. I like you.
 
Lailoken said:
If The Ami enters your lightcone she already knows it in its entirety.
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This implies Ami FTL, because if she is at the edge of someone's lightcone she must be able to be aware of things on the other side of that person's lightcone, which should be unavailable information without FTL communication.

Truly, Ami is a terrifying force.
 
With the afternoon slot free, we figured on discord that it might be a good idea to wrap up the Uchiha negotiations in that slot. We disagreed on what would be the best way to resolve it, between discussing with the clan and sending Mari to enact our desired changes and directly negotiating with the Uchiha alongside Mari. So, when I decided to create a protoplan detailing this plan path, I just put both versions there as different versions.

Protoplan: Today's Going To Be A Doozy
  • Afternoon: The Uchiha Deal:
    • Clan Discussion version:
      • Schedule a clan meeting this afternoon with Mari, Kagome, Noburi, and Akane.
      • Tell them about the deal and our concerns.
      • Get input on what we can and can't change, and what we should put our foot down on.
      • Send Mari to the Uchiha to finalize the deal.
    • Go With Mari version:
      • Schedule a meeting with the Uchiha regarding the negotiations.
      • Go in person along with Mari.
      • Explain your concerns and put your foot down where needbe.
      • If an agreement can be arranged, sign the deal.
  • Evening: Dinner with Snake, Nakano's Team, and Yudai.
    • Explain our idea of retainership to Nakano and co. and offer it to them.
      • [Something something sealing apprentices.]
    • Ask Snake to tell her stories of Jiraiya, share our own.
      • [Anything else?]
 
Oneiros said:
And I seriously dislike his characterization. Ami has gone from an interesting competent character to a parody of that.
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Is your dislike of the characterization that's she's modeled as too competent, or is it her whole "fae-esq agent of chaos" persona?

Anyways, worrying about Ami fucking us or not playing nice now that we've used our favor is kinda... silly. The majority of her power comes from her favor economy, where the favors are the currency. If she doesn't at least follow the spirit of our request then she's devaluing her favors (by essentially issuing counterfeit currency) and thus reducing her political power and ability to make an impact in the world.
 
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Not sure what the arguments are for the 'talk to Uchiha' thing, but I don't actually know if we'd be able to schedule and get a meeting within the space of 4 hours. Then again, I don't know the details of Mari's meetings and how quickly the Uchiha are expecting to get a response.
 
Velorien said:
As with the original Ami date, I would love to write that, but have no idea how you could manage to make it happen.
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The idea was using the favor to help the dialogue and then doing the rest with sheer idealism, but people prefer using it for something sensible(Bleh) like "Political power" and "Don't let us be slaughtered by cheating super OP ninjas like the Hyuga" instead of something more EPIC like "A romantic and sincere dinner in a restaurant".
So, i'm going for plan B, that, i admit, it's still in construction. It will probably start with something like "Is it worth it?" and then go from there.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
With the afternoon slot free, we figured on discord that it might be a good idea to wrap up the Uchiha negotiations in that slot. We disagreed on what would be the best way to resolve it, between discussing with the clan and sending Mari to enact our desired changes and directly negotiating with the Uchiha alongside Mari. So, when I decided to create a protoplan detailing this plan path, I just put both versions there as different versions.

Protoplan: Today's Going To Be A Doozy
  • Afternoon: The Uchiha Deal:
    • Clan Discussion version:
      • Schedule a clan meeting this afternoon with Mari, Kagome, Noburi, and Akane.
      • Tell them about the deal and our concerns.
      • Get input on what we can and can't change, and what we should put our foot down on.
      • Send Mari to the Uchiha to finalize the deal.
    • Go With Mari version:
      • Schedule a meeting with the Uchiha regarding the negotiations.
      • Go in person along with Mari.
      • Explain your concerns and put your foot down where needbe.
      • If an agreement can be arranged, sign the deal.
  • Evening: Dinner with Snake, Nakano's Team, and Yudai.
    • Explain our idea of retainership to Nakano and co. and offer it to them.
      • [Something something sealing apprentices.]
    • Ask Snake to tell her stories of Jiraiya, share our own.
      • [Anything else?]
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Bring Akane's parents in on the discussion, too. Their opinions on the matter are valuable.
 
So if we're doing a clan discussion on the Uchiha deal, would it be at all appropriate to discuss other topics, like the Hagoromo Deal, contacting the Yakuza, potential next steps...?
 
faflec said:
Not sure what the arguments are for the 'talk to Uchiha' thing, but I don't actually know if we'd be able to schedule and get a meeting within the space of 4 hours. Then again, I don't know the details of Mari's meetings and how quickly the Uchiha are expecting to get a response.
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My thoughts are basically that we're in 'ongoing negotiations' and if Hazou had signed it last night the Uchiha would be getting the final meeting and confirmation and such today, and as such they should be open to Hazou wanting to meet with them directly to finish it up and sign it.

Cariyaga said:
Bring Akane's parents in on the discussion, too. Their opinions on the matter are valuable.
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I left them out because this is an OPSEC-sensitive matter that might be a bad idea to involve civilians in, but this isn't a proper plan anyways.
 
@Inferno Vulpix, here's a split up version of yours so that people can vote separately. Feel free to copypasta back into your post.

[] Today's Going To Be A Doozy, Dear Clanmates
  • Afternoon: The Uchiha Deal:
    • Clan Discussion version:
      • Schedule a clan meeting this afternoon with Mari, Kagome, Noburi, and Akane.
      • Tell them about the deal and our concerns.
      • Get input on what we can and can't change, and what we should put our foot down on.
      • Send Mari to the Uchiha to finalize the deal.
  • Evening: Dinner with Snake, Nakano's Team, and Yudai.
    • Explain our idea of retainership to Nakano and co. and offer it to them.
      • [Something something sealing apprentices.]
    • Ask Snake to tell her stories of Jiraiya, share our own.
      • [Anything else?]

[] Let's play political games (w/Uchiha) and board games (w/the cool kids)
  • Afternoon: The Uchiha Deal:
    • Go With Mari version:
      • Schedule a meeting with the Uchiha regarding the negotiations.
      • Go in person along with Mari.
      • Explain your concerns and put your foot down where needbe.
      • If an agreement can be arranged, sign the deal.
  • Evening: Dinner with Snake, Nakano's Team, and Yudai.
    • Explain our idea of retainership to Nakano and co. and offer it to them.
      • [Something something sealing apprentices.]
    • Ask Snake to tell her stories of Jiraiya, share our own.
      • [Anything else?]
 
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I strongly object to having a clan meeting to discuss things about the Uchiha deal. We need to make a decision and then have the Uchiha sign
 
Apparently there's been some miscommunication on my part. The council vote isn't a favour for Ami. It's one of the things she needs to pay back the Gōketsu's favour, the same way her other conditions are things she needs from the Gōketsu in order to pay back said favour. I've changed "conditions" to "requirements" for clarity.
 
I actually would like Hazou, Mari, and a Naruto to go negotiate with the Uchiha in person. Hash out any scruples we have and then pull the trigger.

They're trying to get the deal of a lifetime from us, they can make the fucking time.
 
eaglejarl said:
Here's a split up version of yours so that people can vote separately. Feel free to copypasta back into your post.

[] Today's Going To Be A Doozy, Dear Clanmates
  • Afternoon: The Uchiha Deal:
    • Clan Discussion version:
      • Schedule a clan meeting this afternoon with Mari, Kagome, Noburi, and Akane.
      • Tell them about the deal and our concerns.
      • Get input on what we can and can't change, and what we should put our foot down on.
      • Send Mari to the Uchiha to finalize the deal.
  • Evening: Dinner with Snake, Nakano's Team, and Yudai.
    • Explain our idea of retainership to Nakano and co. and offer it to them.
      • [Something something sealing apprentices.]
    • Ask Snake to tell her stories of Jiraiya, share our own.
      • [Anything else?]

[] Let's play political games (w/Uchiha) and board games (w/the cool kids)
  • Afternoon: The Uchiha Deal:
    • Clan Discussion version:
      • Schedule a clan meeting this afternoon with Mari, Kagome, Noburi, and Akane.
      • Tell them about the deal and our concerns.
      • Get input on what we can and can't change, and what we should put our foot down on.
      • Send Mari to the Uchiha to finalize the deal.
  • Evening: Dinner with Snake, Nakano's Team, and Yudai.
    • Explain our idea of retainership to Nakano and co. and offer it to them.
      • [Something something sealing apprentices.]
    • Ask Snake to tell her stories of Jiraiya, share our own.
      • [Anything else?]
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Wait, I'm confused. Aren't these plans the same?
 
Oneiros said:
I strongly object to having a clan meeting to discuss things about the Uchiha deal. We need to make a decision and then have the Uchiha sign
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For what reasons do you object; Ie, what makes you think this will get us a better outcome?



Anyway, there's limits on how bad Ami can screw us over here. Not in how badly she could screw Hazou over, maybe, but definitely how badly she can mess things up for her. It'd be basically impossible for her to cripple us so badly we can't act to make her regret fucking us over without doing worse to herself in the process, and since she is memeticaply competent she should be able to correctly Devine our precommitments without us even having to say them.
 
I'm hesitant to spend more time hashing stuff out via meetings and whatnot. We've got 7 days left and about three of those are booked to make sure our prospective allies and ourselves are on the same page.

As the Sand nin said:

Velorien said:
"We are out of time."
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Oneiros said:
Because all we ever do is talk about things instead of moving them forward. We need to actually make progress instead of burning another chapter sitting around
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So, I think I understand what you're getting at, but I would like to point out that Inferno Vulpix's suggestion for having a clan meeting has us actually commit to finalizing the deal. FMPOV that means we sit down to talk, figure out what's plausible to change and what's not, and have Mari give over that deal to the Uchiha. At that point if the Uchiha refuse our critical changes, we decline the deal no matter what; if they agree with stipulations, we'd let Mari be our voice and accept what she does. In any case, the Uchiha won't be an issue. At worst we have a 5 minute scene in the future of Mari handing over the finalized deal and Hazou reading it over before signing.

Would this be acceptable for you?
 
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