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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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eaglejarl said:
Regardless, here's the expected schedule:

  • Jan 8
    • --
    • --
    • Evening: Dinner with Snake, Nakano's team, Yudai
  • Jan 9:
    • --
    • Lunch: Ino
    • Afternoon: Chōza
    • Evening: Dinner with Asuma
  • Jan 10:
    • Morning: Shino
    • Afternoon: Minami
    • Dinner: Keiko
  • Jan 11:
    • --
    • Afternoon: Minori

That's assuming that all the invitations are accepted.
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So we have 4 free slots. Two of those should be spent on discussing the Uchiha deal with the clan, and then the final negotiations with Sasuke and his regent. That leaves two free for shenanigans.

Bare in mind that we can delegate stuff to Noburi and Akane as well.
 
PSA: I've threadmarked the action slot allocations and also eliminated one slot that was being double-counted.

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest | Page 6009

January 9 originally looked like this:
  • --
  • Lunch with Ino
  • Chōza
  • Asuma
This was my error since there are only three slots in a day. "Lunch with Ino" has been shifted back into the 'morning' slot, meaning that it now looks like this:
  • Morning: Lunch with Ino
  • Afternoon: Chōza
  • Evening: Asuma
I'll commit to keeping this list up to date at least for the next 2 plan cycles, meaning that after a vote goes through I'll record the results here. If that turns out to be ineffective, unnecessary, or too challenging then we'll figure something else out. OTOH, if someone else wants to maintain it, or if people would prefer that it live solely in the plans, that's totally okay.
 
So it's worth noting that we have two slots free tomorrow morning and afternoon and then we are booked solid for two days. This means that we need to find the two most important things for us to be doing early (as opposed to important things that nonetheless can wait a couple days) and putting everything else off to the side for a few days.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
This means that we need to find the two most important things for us to be doing early
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Actually utilizing the Ami favor so that we can maybe see payouts on this in time for the Kage vote, and in the weeks afterwards.

She could probably help Mari with some aspects of the Uchiha negotiation.
 
MMKII said:
Actually utilizing the Ami favor so that we can maybe see payouts on this in time for the Kage vote, and in the weeks afterwards.

She could probably help Mari with some aspects of the Uchiha negotiation.
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In addition to that...we might want to think about our next targets, now that we have the Hagoromo and Uchiha deals mostly-settled. Is it worth pursuing the Aburame or Inuzuka? Should we focus on keeping Hiashi from turning our allies?

On another note, what about Mari? Should we stage an intervention with her, now that we seem to have the advantage?
 
MMKII said:
Actually utilizing the Ami favor so that we can maybe see payouts on this in time for the Kage vote, and in the weeks afterwards.

She could probably help Mari with some aspects of the Uchiha negotiation.
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How about we use favor to help us get the following out of the deal:
  • Consent are required from Gouketsu nee Uchiha women
  • Uchiha will get any ninja child of these women that does not posses IN
    • Ami can actually state that Mist will declare war to Leaf if IN will go away from Gouketsu in next X years due to Kurosawa being strict about this. It sounds plausible, but Uchiha will have no way to check this.
  • These children are the only children Uchiha will get - if Hazou pumps Sharingan-wielder from non-Uchiha woman, the kid stays in Gouketsu
  • We get additional marker for every case where we lower Hyuuga's (or some other clan's) economical pressure
    • e. g. someone with stick up his noble ass blocks some resources to be sold to Uchiha. We find a way to get them this resources using our channels or whatever.
  • Maybe we can provide something that will actually make them vote for Asuma instead of abstaining

Are there any other clauses we want renegotiated? If anyone can pull something useful from this deal it's Ami.

Also, if we put clan discussion in the first slot and use second to discuss the deal with Uchiha, than the hivemind cannot alter the deal based on clan discussion. Unless, the update actually ends after first section. Let us keep this in mind.
 
faflec said:
In addition to that...we might want to think about our next targets, now that we have the Hagoromo and Uchiha deals mostly-settled. Is it worth pursuing the Aburame or Inuzuka? Should we focus on keeping Hiashi from turning our allies?

On another note, what about Mari? Should we stage an intervention with her, now that we seem to have the advantage?
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Hopefully the "keeping Hiashi from turning our allies" bit is what we're doing the next 3-4 days.

I'm not sure who to target next. Maybe Shino? That clan J said Hiashi had blackmail on?

I'm not sure if an intervention is a good idea. We can spare an evening I think, but we're in the endgame now on the Hat stuff.

TarzanNn said:
How about we use favor to help us get the following out of the deal:
  • Consent are required from Gouketsu nee Uchiha women
  • Uchiha will get any ninja child of these women that does not posses IN
    • Ami can actually state that Mist will declare war to Leaf if IN will go away from Gouketsu in next X years due to Kurosawa being strict about this. It sounds plausible, but Uchiha will have no way to check this.
  • These children are the only children Uchiha will get - if Hazou pumps Sharingan-wielder from non-Uchiha woman, the kid stays in Gouketsu
  • We get additional marker for every case where we lower Hyuuga's (or some other clan's) economical pressure
    • e. g. someone with stick up his noble ass blocks some resources to be sold to Uchiha. We find a way to get them this resources using our channels or whatever.
  • Maybe we can provide something that will actually make them vote for Asuma instead of abstaining

Are there any other clauses we want renegotiated? If anyone can pull something useful from this deal it's Ami.

Also, if we put clan discussion in the first slot and use second to discuss the deal with Uchiha, than the hivemind cannot alter the deal based on clan discussion. Unless, the update actually ends after first section. Let us keep this in mind.
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We'll be using the favor on a more general "Help us do politics shit for the next month as your highest priority, work with Mari and Hazou to figure out specifics and hash out implementational details."

First order of business should likely be "Fix this deal." , but note that we cannot actually disclose most of the deal to her since the fact the IN users sometimes beget Sharingan wielders is a Kurosawa Clan secret. This information alone would be of immeasurable value to her.
 
faflec said:
On another note, what about Mari? Should we stage an intervention with her, now that we seem to have the advantage?
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Given our schedule I really don't think we can afford to stage a Mari intervention now. We've got two slots open tomorrow and probably need to spend those on wrapping up the civilian situation outside and spending the Ami favour (and that's assuming we don't need one of those slots for our response to the Uchiha deal). If we want to do anything with Mari, even if we assume it'll only take one slot of time, we're pushing one of those back days and lose a lot of utility as a result.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Given our schedule I really don't think we can afford to stage a Mari intervention now. We've got two slots open tomorrow and probably need to spend those on wrapping up the civilian situation outside and spending the Ami favour (and that's assuming we don't need one of those slots for our response to the Uchiha deal). If we want to do anything with Mari, even if we assume it'll only take one slot of time, we're pushing one of those back days and lose a lot of utility as a result.
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Shit, civilians. That's a good point.

Yeah, let's burn our slot on that, it's waaay more important.
 
The Ami favor is nothing! She'll just do whatever she wants anyway! I swear its like she figured out a genjutsu that she can cast on the thread posters.
 
MMKII said:
First order of business should likely be "Fix this deal." , but note that we cannot actually disclose most of the deal to her since the fact the IN users sometimes beget Sharingan wielders is a Kurosawa Clan secret. This information alone would be of immeasurable value to her.
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She probably already knows somehow.

Besides if we put her on fixing the deal duty, she would know almost immediately from Uchiha - they have no particular reason to withold this information since it is not their Clan Secret. Probably
 
TarzanNn said:
She probably already knows somehow.

Besides if we put her on fixing the deal duty, she would know almost immediately from Uchiha - they have no particular reason to withold this information since it is not their Clan Secret. Probably
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I disagree on the practicality of leaking the info. If she doesn't know, we would be able to use this in the future as a bargaining chip.

We can have her work on third option optimizations to put in the deal that would end up making both sides quite happy or something like that. That way there more room for us to cut shit we don't like.
 
I would observe that the Kurosawa being an offshoot of the Uchiha clan is well-known enough for Jiraiya to have known the fact before Hazou even told him about them getting Sharingans. Wouldn't we just have to omit the details of the long-term plan to Ami (i.e., just say that every once in a while we'll have to give up one of Hazou's kids to the Uchiha)?

Not saying I want us to tell her, just making a note.
 
I agree that it's probably worthwhile to have Ami help us get a better deal with the Uchiha, so I'll write up an example subsection of the meeting:
  • Afternoon: Ami (with Mari)
    • Spend favour: for the next month, work with Mari and Hazou to cement our powerbase.
    • Share OPSEC-sanitized overview of Uchiha deal and our concerns. Ask for her help improving our deal.
Ami told us that she went to great lengths to keep her marital autonomy, I expect she'll sympathize with our concerns and given the overall context of the favour honestly help us with it when she's not enacting her brand of chaos on Konoha to our benefit in the rest of the political sphere.

Unless we somehow reschedule something, we won't be free to go to the Uchiha in the next few days. This means that once we send Ami and Mari to help improve the deal either we'll get a new draft handed to us in the next few days or after our other meetings we'll go to the Uchiha and directly finalize the deal there.
 
the whole idea of the 'favors' is just silly.

They are stuff you can ask her for. But she can say no.

That's...just talking. You can talk to Keiko and ask a favor and she might say no or she might do it.

But with Ami it is this ridiculous formalized rigmarole, and all of the pluses of that are on her side.
She does something people disapprove of? It must be at the behest of one of her favor holders, we need to earn her goodwill so she'll tell us who made her get us mad.
She wants something? She can offer you the highly valuable Ami Mori FavorCoin (tm), which will allow you to ask her for things that she may or may not do.
People have even been like 'how can we help Ami so that we can accumulate more of these?'
This is to say nothing of the Big Gain of having ninjas come up and reveal what they consider worthy of spending this imaginary nonsense on. Mind reading may be out, but fools throng about shiny things.

As far as why she would betray us?

It wouldn't be betrayal. She is our enemy, a Mist Ninja (the blather about her working on behalf of/organizing an intervillage association in a world where sending mail to another village gest you executed is transparent nonsense). If we walk up to her and give her information she will exploit it for the benefit of her master, the Kage of her village, like all ninjas always do.
 
Walter said:
the whole idea of the 'favors' is just silly.

They are stuff you can ask her for. But she can say no.

That's...just talking. You can talk to Keiko and ask a favor and she might say no or she might do it.

But with Ami it is this ridiculous formalized rigmarole, and all of the pluses of that are on her side.
She does something people disapprove of? It must be at the behest of one of her favor holders, we need to earn her goodwill so she'll tell us who made her get us mad.
She wants something? She can offer you the highly valuable Ami Mori FavorCoin (tm), which will allow you to ask her for things that she may or may not do.
People have even been like 'how can we help Ami so that we can accumulate more of these?'
This is to say nothing of the Big Gain of having ninjas come up and reveal what they consider worthy of spending this imaginary nonsense on. Mind reading may be out, but fools throng about shiny things.

As far as why she would betray us?

It wouldn't be betrayal. She is our enemy, a Mist Ninja (the blather about her working on behalf of/organizing an intervillage association in a world where sending mail to another village gest you executed is transparent nonsense). If we walk up to her and give her information she will exploit it for the benefit of her master, the Kage of her village, like all ninjas always do.
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You'll have to convince me why Mari is wrong, since Mari is Ami's teacher, and she trusts her.
 
Walter said:
the whole idea of the 'favors' is just silly.

They are stuff you can ask her for. But she can say no.

That's...just talking. You can talk to Keiko and ask a favor and she might say no or she might do it.

But with Ami it is this ridiculous formalized rigmarole, and all of the pluses of that are on her side.
She does something people disapprove of? It must be at the behest of one of her favor holders, we need to earn her goodwill so she'll tell us who made her get us mad.
She wants something? She can offer you the highly valuable Ami Mori FavorCoin (tm), which will allow you to ask her for things that she may or may not do.
People have even been like 'how can we help Ami so that we can accumulate more of these?'
This is to say nothing of the Big Gain of having ninjas come up and reveal what they consider worthy of spending this imaginary nonsense on. Mind reading may be out, but fools throng about shiny things.

As far as why she would betray us?

It wouldn't be betrayal. She is our enemy, a Mist Ninja (the blather about her working on behalf of/organizing an intervillage association in a world where sending mail to another village gest you executed is transparent nonsense). If we walk up to her and give her information she will exploit it for the benefit of her master, the Kage of her village, like all ninjas always do.
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I think you and I have very different readings of how Ami's whole favor exchange deal works. What she does is more or less the same as the Nara's hours economy.

The point is that these ninja skipped the trip on physical currency exchange. The most useful commodity for any of these people is their time, so they trade directly in it.

A favor is just some assortment of hours they'll spend to complete a task at the end of the day. One does not create their own psuedo-currency without an absolutely stellar reputation as far as business standards go. Being known as dishonest or "conveniently incompetent" or what have you isn't in her best interests, nor is it in her MO.

If you believe this is likely, consider for a moment why she would fuck us over like a moustache twirling villain when we could be of further use to her down the line. Does this girl look like she plays the short game or the long game? If she was likely to shoot us in the foot, why would Mari be gung ho about doing this?
 
Walter said:
People have even been like 'how can we help Ami so that we can accumulate more of these?'
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On this he's right, we're falling in her trap without as much as a second thought.
I know we don't have much choice, but we're not trying to creare a different relationship with her.
She just wrecked us socially one time, and now we are playing in her favor economy.(Also because she was in another village).
This said, it's not completely true, we know(From her interlude and her allies interlude) that she always respect her promises, even if she rule-lawyer those promises/favors worse than an Ace Attorney villains.
(Also, creating a ally relationship without her in complete control would probably be an SS-rank mission on it's own, because only Nagato and his "My charisma made Akatsuki" could do it)
 
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Lord Marshal said:
On this he's right, we're falling in her trap without as much as a second thought.
I know we don't have much choice, but we're not trying to creare a different relationship with her.
She just wrecked us socially one time, and we are playing in her favor economy.(Also because she was in another village).
This said, it's not completely true, we know(From her interlude and her allies interlude) that she always respect her promises, even if she rule-lawyer those promises/favors worse than an Ace Attorney villains.
(Also, creating a ally relationship without her in complete control would probably be an SS-rank mission on it's own, because only Nagato and his "My charisma made Akatsuki" could do it)
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Rule-lawyering favors make her untrustworthy.
 
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