- Location
- Pacific standard
Man, I thought Kei was going to drag us off to a caldera for sudden onset Out dementia. The fact that you turned it into a sweet slice of life moment is nothing but a testament to your skill.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- France
Crunbum, I think our disagreement stems from these two facts :
I think that this is irrelevant, because we can't really do any lithosealing while maintaining opsec. In the past you've spoken about "doing research in the Basement" or whatever, but I doubt that'll actually pass a vote.
We're going to need to unstagnate combat very soon !
Why would doing lithosealing in the Basement not pass a vote? We are already doing it. Thats what teaching Orochimaru is. Might as well do useful collaborative research there instead. And uhh.. what OPSEC. The jig is up on that. Akatsuki wont mess with Oro unless they find out Runes are a thing - and how would they if it all happens, notes and all, in his Basement? His own Runic research is already there anyway so it.. adds zero risk of them finding out that wasnt there already.
As for unstagnating combat, not very very soon. We can fit Callig 45, PS 24, Ath 39 and Sub 25 before we need to do it without losing any XP to the 15k Stagnation. We could then learn TH right afterwards and go missing which would probably mean we would focus on levelling Athletics and Sub in the medium term from then on to not die.
(And reading TH lootboxes + doing PS research)
In simple terms, I would want to level PS as much as possible to still get Callig 45 by the time our Severe heals, so that we can work on RRBs simultaneously with cutting edge Runes.
So Callig 45, PS 24 (Eff. 49 AB 3, Prep 55, Effort 64) then detour Ath 39, Sub 25 + RRBs before Combat.
Then TH and PS 26 (+2) as XP allows without delay and we leave as soon as feasible, continuing Ath and Sub while getting BoC 30 as a support.
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- Location
- Texas
Would it help if things like bo-shuriken already existed in the setting? From what I'm understanding from some light research, different types of throwing weapons were common and were named after the shapes or tools that they resembled. Some of the listed ones include: kugi-gata (nail form)
hari-gata (needle form)
tantō-gata (knife form)
hoko-gata (spear form)
matsuba-gata (pine-needle form)
With any luck, some of these shapes are more compatible with RB.
Also, if the spinning is an issue, there were two types of throwing that were practiced in japan in that time period. "jiki da-ho" which did not allow the weapon to spin and "han-ten da-ho" which did allow spinning. It's possible that the former would lessen the issues with the Rocket Boots and RW.
- Location
- Texas
I don't think so. The QMs have implied that it's an aerodynamics issue, not a thrust issue.
Not gonna lie, levelling Sealing and Calligraphy sky high and then using most of our research cycles to try and patch up combat stat deficiencies with booster seals was a questionable approach. Between things like Rocket Boots and Chakdar, boosters are mostly everything we've been using Sealing for other than Skywalkers and Skyslicers, while leaving established options it offers like barriers largely untouched.
Eventually if we want combat stats, we are just going to have to bite the bullet and level them. Not saying seals cant make for effective boosters but they are not gonna do much when there is nothing to boost and we would definitely have been rolling far higher than they allow us as is, had we just gotten the bare minimum Sealing / Callig required to still come up with PS via Earthshaping and went with combat skill capstones to our pyramid. Hindsight is 20/20 of course but Earthshaping 50 / Sealing 40 / Calligraphy 30 would have been way less risky a build plan with a similar payoff since SSA would still make us a Sealing SJ.
Eventually if we want combat stats, we are just going to have to bite the bullet and level them. Not saying seals cant make for effective boosters but they are not gonna do much when there is nothing to boost and we would definitely have been rolling far higher than they allow us as is, had we just gotten the bare minimum Sealing / Callig required to still come up with PS via Earthshaping and went with combat skill capstones to our pyramid. Hindsight is 20/20 of course but Earthshaping 50 / Sealing 40 / Calligraphy 30 would have been way less risky a build plan with a similar payoff since SSA would still make us a Sealing SJ.
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Now that we know this can be done, we need to test whether or not we can break the setting further with this.
- Can we break the chakra diffusion limit with substrate cables?
- Can we make cables that are kilometers long and still conduct enough chakra to activate seals?
- Can we pair seals with substrate cable, removing the need for them to have a range limit? This probably won't work for seals that have a physical effect like force walls or domes, but what about seals like LBF or MARS? Might require a redesign of the seal
- Can we activate multiple seals with substrate cable? Making it a MARS lite. Can the delay from this be precisely tuned such that we can activate seals in sequence or in parallel? Can we make a substrate PCB design?
- Etc.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Speaking as one of the people who would be voting on the matter, the two situations seem pretty different to me. What we're currently doing is teaching Orochimaru within the bounds and terms of a contract previously agreed on, a "deal between men". Orochimaru is constrained not only by his honour but also by the fact that he gets the most value out of us as an earnestly cooperative tutor.
Proposing we keep coming to his basement after that in order to conduct our own rune research is... I won't call it night and day, but the advantages of the above are very blunted while the dangers and concerns still remain. Furthermore, even given the above one of the main reasons people were willing to do this tutoring at all was because there was a genuine need: the Dragonwar is an all-hands-on-deck sort of crisis and we can't afford to hamstring humanity's shot at survival by forcing Orochimaru to waste months or years reinventing it by himself. Anyone who was uncomfortable with the prospect of working with Orochimaru but yet was persuaded to set that aside until the tutoring was over would still have their concerns and reservations about working with Orochimaru in general and could easily wind up voting against a plan that has us go back and work with him some more when we don't actually need to.
Overall, I do think it genuinely is unlikely that the hivemind votes in favour of doing rune research in Orochimaru's basement, and I also think that we will be inclined to keep our rune research to a minimum until we go missing in order to hopefully minimize the odds that Itachi discovers it when he interrogates us to check compliance: the less of it we're doing, the less likely something about it is relevant to answering one of Itachi's questions, the less likely he forces us to spill the beans after deciding we've been "less than fully truthful" in our responses.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Just giving my own thoughts on this, but Oro expected us to keep teaching him after that one update focused on that. My personal reaction to that expectation was to wonder what it would actually mean for Hazo to keep teaching Orochimaru Runecrafting beyond the point shown in the update? The first and most obvious answer would be to teach Oro the specific runes that Hazo already knows... that list is very short. The less obvious but still rather straightforward angle is that Hazo teaches a bunch of mumbo-jumbo that would be meaningless to write out but effectively just translates to mechanical levels which is boring but plausible.
And finally, I considered the possibility that in order to keep instructing Orochimaru and help him improve his runecrafting, the most optimal angle would be for the two of them to do research together, with Hazo taking the lead and preventing accidents while Orochimaru learns from and contributes to the process.
Or in other words, doing rune research in Orochimaru's basement doesn't have to be separate, 'in addition to' teaching him. It's not night and day if It's literally just the next step in the process. Of course, this would have the downside of Orochimaru having access to any runes we try to research, and to a lesser extent getting his agreement that a specific idea is worth investing research time into. So its not without downsides. But that is a given in any plan that involves research in his basement so that's not exactly a new consideration.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
I will enthusiastically vote & advocate for any plan that develops Hazo's Runesmithing veterancy. But I think that we're slowly getting a picture of the choice set facing us:
Timeline milestones:
* 20 days to clear the Consequences
* 80 days to get access to the TH stunt
* N days until the Crusade's Feast of Dragons.
XP wishlist:
+ 600-1000 XP for combat fundamentals
+ 1200 XP for build unfuckery via lightning jutsu
+ ~235(?) for BoC 30
+ 360 XP for TH 10
Research priorities:
? cycles of Veterancy Chain fodder, which I think is more important than the hivemind has recognized in the past
? cycles of SSA for RRB, 4Fseal barrier, other Jiraya tier effects / combat-tier loadout iterations
? Cycles of SSA for non-necromancy Minatoseals
? cycles of Rune experimentation [maybe outside of Leaf]
? cycles of SSA for Necromancy seals [definitely outside of Leaf]
Fungible Wealth Extraction:
€ Liquidating Goketsu social capital
€ Milking Leaf for tradable resources
€ Begging for apprenticeship XP
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- Location
- Pacific standard
We need to have Jiraiya's Substitution seals learned before our TH stunt finishes. That really shouldn't be hard. They're genin. We can probably farm We'll Do It Live on it, especially if spend a little xp on fate points. I can't imagine it taking more than three or four SSA cycles, and I think it actually might be more efficient to no prep no ssa it. Would want to leave it to Hazō's intuition.
Four short prep SSA cycles is only ~16 days, though. Really not a hard constraint, as long as we actually start them at some point.
Zampano
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- Location
- Simping for DSB
I'm very close to generating color coded templates of the 20- and 80-day timelines in the style of that Shadowclone training-block timeline that went up in the thread a few weeks ago. Then people can plug in their idealized training plan and game out the trade off between research blocks and FOOM blocks or Notes blocks.
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- Location
- Washington, USA
Rather than activating rocket boots in response to enemy-initiated attacks, how about using them in conjunction with the Iron Nerve to set up moments of apparent vulnerability - long jumps on predictable ballistic arcs, for example - and then time the rocket-boosted dodge to kick in after the opponent spots that opportunity, but before an attack intended to exploit it can actually land? Similar concept to Roki, get 'em second-guessing their own tactical instincts.
Also, would it be possible to use deliberately flawed substrate as insulation between rocket boot layers, or wiring to keep the chakra adhesion (or other trigger signal) more narrowly focused than it would normally be?
Also, would it be possible to use deliberately flawed substrate as insulation between rocket boot layers, or wiring to keep the chakra adhesion (or other trigger signal) more narrowly focused than it would normally be?
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This sounds like what the Roki + RRB combination stunt is already doing.
Not sure how this is supposed to work. Substrate is chakra conductive. The flawed stuff isn't insulating, just not conductive enough to be viable substrate.
We did a prep day on a seal that insulates the next set of RBs, it was Jiraiya difficulty.
Hardwiring the seal has potential, but the strand of substrate might break due to ninja movement. Worth an experiment.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's conductive; the problem is that it's like a hose with big holes in it. The water (chakra) will flow through it but it sprays out in all directions. If you put your hands (chakra control) tight over the holes then you can get it to flow but if you take your hands away it immediately sprays out. If you cap one end in order to turn the hose into a container (a rune) the water leaks out immediately, unless you're actively holding it in, in which case it leaks out as soon as you let go. In this analogy there is no duct tape or other material that could be used to plug the leaks.
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- Location
- Washington, USA
If we make a playing-card-sized slice of it which preferentially conducts chakra out toward the edges rather than across its thickness, that might disperse/redirect chakra adhesion, thereby reducing penetration depth equivalent to, say, an inch of empty space. Then we experiment to figure out how many layers are needed, between two adhesion-triggered seals, for only one of the seals to be set off by a deliberately under-powered adhesion applied to one side. Card edges could then also serve as interface points for chakra-conductive wires accessing the middle of the stack.
Based on what EJ just posted this seems pretty hopeless. Without actively using ES we can't control the chakra flows in the faux-substrate.
You mean via the wire method? I imagine you can do it from both hands, since you can do it from both feet...
- Location
- United States
This seems a pretty clear signal from @eaglejarl that we can't cheat the system. If we want to produce substrate, we need to either level BoC to 30 or ES to some mystery level.
I have no interest in devoting any further wordcount to this.
I have no interest in devoting any further wordcount to this.
Zampano
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- Location
- Simping for DSB
I agree, although it's tempting to check the output of BoC 10 and BoC 20, in case there's any level of synergy that rewards the investment of a 50-slot. I don't think it should require an entire day of Prime's attention each time, but I've been consistently confused about planmaking constraints in the past.
Checking BoC 10 and BoC 20 also requires coordinating to pass two training plans, and the Hivemind is extremely torn about what to spend XP on right now. Passing BoC 10 but not BoC 20 (30) would be a catastrophic waste
There is no need to concern ourselves with BoC 30 before we leave Leaf and lose access to the substrate regardless, which will still take a while. Also... why would Hazou of all people level the Skill? Surely we could have someone else learn it? Does Kagome have the Earth Element?
We will probably want to teach him Primordial Sealing, for assistance in rolls and so that he can research his own line of stuff, if nothing else - and I imagine if we get him focusing levelling PS and BoC 30, he would become rather good at the art, rather quickly, since he does not need to split his XP a million ways in the process as his fundamentals are fine. Plus, we would be teaching him SC too, so he would get a greater XP rate.
We will probably want to teach him Primordial Sealing, for assistance in rolls and so that he can research his own line of stuff, if nothing else - and I imagine if we get him focusing levelling PS and BoC 30, he would become rather good at the art, rather quickly, since he does not need to split his XP a million ways in the process as his fundamentals are fine. Plus, we would be teaching him SC too, so he would get a greater XP rate.
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