His hair.
Also it looks like gear dies with you. Jiraiya had his clothes.
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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Also it looks like gear dies with you. Jiraiya had his clothes.
It'd certainly be a novel way to learn to bioseal.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
If we learn how to minatoseal before we die, we can rip chakra out from the newly-dead, filter it into our own coils, and then use that chakra to infuse bioseals.
If Hazo's the only one at risk, absolutely. If it's everyone else we care about, I'd at least think about it.
- Location
- Pacific standard
Legit, non trolling answer: varying pressure and a rocking motion with a pulling motion.
Trolling answer: flex his fingerprints
The kageship isn't hereditary but Asuma married us first. We have the legitimate claim to the Monkey scroll.Twinnstars on Discord said:
Worse: Orochimaru has legitimate claim to the Monkey scroll. There's 3 of us who can use the scroll. Kumo's bound to the 7th Path. Goketsu has Kagome and Hazo. Orochimaru just has himself. Kagome is the Arachnid Summoner so he has more legitimacy. I think we can safely contest his claim if we have to.
Anyway the main point is we have to start mourning our dead husband Asuma too.
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I don't feel like we've fully explored the stay in leaf options. The crux of the issue is not having leverage to dissuade Akatsuki from loot piñata-ing us. But we do have some options, and I'm not totally convinced that some combination of them wouldn't prove effective. E.g.:
1. Convincing Naruto to commit to protecting us:
It's a massive breach of Leaf's sovereignty for Akatsuki to periodically steal all the research of Leaf's #1 sealmaster. even aside from the necro-race raises issues (e.g. Akatsuki stealing lithosealing).
- If Naruto puts his foot down and says Leaf will NOT back down on this and is willing to fight to the death over it, is it actually worth it for Akatsuki to take the field over this, (vs just trying to win the race against us fair and square or trying to steal the rift after we open it)? Can they afford to lose another member?
- Are there political solutions where Naruto leverages AMITY, since it's in everyone's interest that Akatsuki can't waltz in and loot piñata nations whenever they feel like it?
2. Threaten to release the rift secret. Akatsuki really doesn't want the entire elemental nations to be aware of this; it's the kind of thing that can and will mobilise another coalition against them and I don't think they win that fight: Cloud and Rock's essies who weren't at the battle of the gods help tip the scales in the EM's favour and Akatsuki are significantly down in firepower since then too. If we pre-commit to disseminating the secret and our notes to the other narions if they loot piñata us, it seems like it's probably more worth it for Akatsuki to just race us fair and square vs knocking us out of the race and then having to deal with the entire rest of the world allied against them and also racing them on research.
3. Try to come up with some solution where they can enforce a necromancy moratorium that doesn't involve taking all of our secrets. This obviously still sucks because we don't get a chance at winning the necro-race, but if Orochimaru does find a way to shut the rift so nobody gets necromancy, it's not setting-ending even if it is a shame. This could be something like periodically having a social spec ask us specifically if we've worked on necromancy, with Naruto present for the interrogation to make sure they only ask necromancy questions.
4. Others??
Personally I think a combination of even just these 3 tactics is enough: we meet Akatsuki ideally in a neutral location like an AMITY conference and tell them honestly that we haven't done any necro work which they can confirm via social spec, showing that we are have been honouring our word. BUT Naruto also states that he won't allow us to be subjected to random interrogations, since that's an unacceptable leak of Leaf's capabilities. Naruto asserts that this is a hill Leaf is willing to die on, and we also inform them that we've got dead drops set up to inform everyone about necromancy if we die unexpectedly.
I think that the rational action for Akatsuki here is to accept this middle ground. It's actively counterproductive to their goals to insist on pushing here.
[X] [MissingNin] I am undecided as to whether I would vote for Hazou to go missing nin from leaf.
[Maybe] [MissingNin] I vote for Hazou to stay in leaf.
1. Convincing Naruto to commit to protecting us:
It's a massive breach of Leaf's sovereignty for Akatsuki to periodically steal all the research of Leaf's #1 sealmaster. even aside from the necro-race raises issues (e.g. Akatsuki stealing lithosealing).
- If Naruto puts his foot down and says Leaf will NOT back down on this and is willing to fight to the death over it, is it actually worth it for Akatsuki to take the field over this, (vs just trying to win the race against us fair and square or trying to steal the rift after we open it)? Can they afford to lose another member?
- Are there political solutions where Naruto leverages AMITY, since it's in everyone's interest that Akatsuki can't waltz in and loot piñata nations whenever they feel like it?
2. Threaten to release the rift secret. Akatsuki really doesn't want the entire elemental nations to be aware of this; it's the kind of thing that can and will mobilise another coalition against them and I don't think they win that fight: Cloud and Rock's essies who weren't at the battle of the gods help tip the scales in the EM's favour and Akatsuki are significantly down in firepower since then too. If we pre-commit to disseminating the secret and our notes to the other narions if they loot piñata us, it seems like it's probably more worth it for Akatsuki to just race us fair and square vs knocking us out of the race and then having to deal with the entire rest of the world allied against them and also racing them on research.
3. Try to come up with some solution where they can enforce a necromancy moratorium that doesn't involve taking all of our secrets. This obviously still sucks because we don't get a chance at winning the necro-race, but if Orochimaru does find a way to shut the rift so nobody gets necromancy, it's not setting-ending even if it is a shame. This could be something like periodically having a social spec ask us specifically if we've worked on necromancy, with Naruto present for the interrogation to make sure they only ask necromancy questions.
4. Others??
Personally I think a combination of even just these 3 tactics is enough: we meet Akatsuki ideally in a neutral location like an AMITY conference and tell them honestly that we haven't done any necro work which they can confirm via social spec, showing that we are have been honouring our word. BUT Naruto also states that he won't allow us to be subjected to random interrogations, since that's an unacceptable leak of Leaf's capabilities. Naruto asserts that this is a hill Leaf is willing to die on, and we also inform them that we've got dead drops set up to inform everyone about necromancy if we die unexpectedly.
I think that the rational action for Akatsuki here is to accept this middle ground. It's actively counterproductive to their goals to insist on pushing here.
[X] [MissingNin] I am undecided as to whether I would vote for Hazou to go missing nin from leaf.
[Maybe] [MissingNin] I vote for Hazou to stay in leaf.
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1. Convincing Naruto to commit to protecting us
It's true that it's a massive violation of Leaf, but Akatsuki already daylight robbed Leaf and Leaf was powerless to stop it. They had an excuse before but this is ninja politics, excuses are optional. Unless we change the political landscape in our favor I don't expect the answer to change. If we can figure out how to do that without going missing, great.
2. Threaten to release the rift secret.
Akatsuki can afford to escalate lots harder than we can and I don't think they're worried about basically any other sealmasters.
3.
Nonexistent. If you can think of specifics then I'll evaluate it but I'm not confident that closing the rift wouldn't lead to backlash. Worse yet, it also involves giving up on OUR goals and that's against the quest's spirit.
4.
Nonexistent but I'd love other options.
It's true that it's a massive violation of Leaf, but Akatsuki already daylight robbed Leaf and Leaf was powerless to stop it. They had an excuse before but this is ninja politics, excuses are optional. Unless we change the political landscape in our favor I don't expect the answer to change. If we can figure out how to do that without going missing, great.
2. Threaten to release the rift secret.
Akatsuki can afford to escalate lots harder than we can and I don't think they're worried about basically any other sealmasters.
3.
Nonexistent. If you can think of specifics then I'll evaluate it but I'm not confident that closing the rift wouldn't lead to backlash. Worse yet, it also involves giving up on OUR goals and that's against the quest's spirit.
4.
Nonexistent but I'd love other options.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Something to keep in mind is that Akatsuki care about reviving Pain more than they care about AMITY. More than they care about not being hunted as super-terrorists again. They seem to like AMITY, and being world leaders that get to walk around in broad daylight, but remember what Itachi said to us about the Dragons and the Great Seal: "Pain will handle it, Pain is the most effective way of handling it, if you want to be solving these problems you should be helping us revive Pain sooner".
We're threatening their bottom line here. There's nothing they won't sacrifice if it's necessary to ensure their necromancy plans go smoothly. They'd burn Leaf to the ground and then burn AMITY to the ground if that's what it took, and they have the power to do it. They were tied to a fixed point at Nagi Island, forced to defend a specific site and never retreat from it. But right now they have nothing to protect. Even Hidden Rain is just another useful tool. If they declare war on the world then they go to ground and hide out in the wilderness and attack opportunistically until everyone who opposes them is dead. If they declare war on the world then they win.
Just... keep that in mind. They've been playing nice with AMITY because they have no reason not to, but they also don't have any reason to fear it either. We would be foolish to imagine them incapable of escalating higher than us.
We're threatening their bottom line here. There's nothing they won't sacrifice if it's necessary to ensure their necromancy plans go smoothly. They'd burn Leaf to the ground and then burn AMITY to the ground if that's what it took, and they have the power to do it. They were tied to a fixed point at Nagi Island, forced to defend a specific site and never retreat from it. But right now they have nothing to protect. Even Hidden Rain is just another useful tool. If they declare war on the world then they go to ground and hide out in the wilderness and attack opportunistically until everyone who opposes them is dead. If they declare war on the world then they win.
Just... keep that in mind. They've been playing nice with AMITY because they have no reason not to, but they also don't have any reason to fear it either. We would be foolish to imagine them incapable of escalating higher than us.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Actually... that's what we know of what Itachi thinks, not of what any of the rest of them do. I do agree that they can escalate higher; I'm not sure they, by and large, would.
- Location
- Washington, USA
We need to change that part. Some rune which throws around enough lightning to thwart Deidara's bombardment, to start with, then work our way through their other known techniques. Combine it with tutoring of Orochimaru? Maybe claim that inventing new variations on defensive perimeters for wilderness camps is a big part of how Kagome taught Hazo sealing, and it clearly worked (Jiraya was astounded at the resulting insights!) so we'll be continuing that tradition.
Thus, Oro's next assignment, as Hazo's apprentice, is to spec out an array of runes - including inventing new ones, as needed - and other defenses which could plausibly prevent the remainder of Akatsuki from entering Hidden Leaf without the Hokage's permission. As a further challenge, minimize disruption of established civilian activities, including during testing and setup.
High-precision chakra adhesion.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
When we go missing, we should harvest a bunch of this and see what happens when we load it into a macerator.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
What's preventing them from coming to leaf and murderring everyone when they hear we are researching ways to kill them?
How do we convince Naruto to let us do this? We are already forbidden to do rift research since it endangers Leaf and this is no different
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
[X] [MissingNin] I would vote for Hazou to go missing nin from leaf.
[X] [MissingNin] I would vote for something else.
That said, I have a major caveat which seems to differ from other Leave voters. I don't want to destroy Clan Gokētsu. Meaning I want to go missing just with Kagome. It's a handicap and it means that if we don't win the Necromancy race then it's pretty much game over. But it ruins far fewer lives and leaves the setting more interesting to me in case of having to roll a new character. And the amount of lives ruined doesn't only matter of we fail. The lives of the remain Gokētsu will be ruined if we rip out the Clan's core.
[X] [MissingNin] I would vote for something else.
That said, I have a major caveat which seems to differ from other Leave voters. I don't want to destroy Clan Gokētsu. Meaning I want to go missing just with Kagome. It's a handicap and it means that if we don't win the Necromancy race then it's pretty much game over. But it ruins far fewer lives and leaves the setting more interesting to me in case of having to roll a new character. And the amount of lives ruined doesn't only matter of we fail. The lives of the remain Gokētsu will be ruined if we rip out the Clan's core.
Fwiw, I'm reluctant to separate Team Uplift even for Goketsu's sake, and I don't think we can afford to prioritize the Clan above our odds of being able to deal with X-risks. Goketsu will still have a bunch of capable ninja, Jiraiya's reputation, and the Hokage's goodwill- the Uchiha were comparatively better established in Leaf but they were also only left with one ninja when Itachi did his silly fun time family gathering and Sasuke managed alright. I don't think that Goketsu will be ruined.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[ @faflec's quote]
Hm. Medknow is the stat that governs poison-making/poison research, right?
Noburi should be able to purify the paralytic easily enough, given his stat.
I'm not saying that it's a game-breaking discovery, but it would be a surprise ace in our sleeve against enemies. Another tool in our kit to leverage, another weapon in our arsenal.
Edit: another idle thought. Telescopes are Hella useful, and Hella expensive. We can make them for free via Earthshaping. Before we leave, we should make sure every Goketsu ninja has one, plus some in reserve for Sasha (who will graduate after we leave), and maybe a couple of spares, for whomever the Goketsu adopt while we're gone.
Hm. Medknow is the stat that governs poison-making/poison research, right?
Noburi should be able to purify the paralytic easily enough, given his stat.
I'm not saying that it's a game-breaking discovery, but it would be a surprise ace in our sleeve against enemies. Another tool in our kit to leverage, another weapon in our arsenal.
Edit: another idle thought. Telescopes are Hella useful, and Hella expensive. We can make them for free via Earthshaping. Before we leave, we should make sure every Goketsu ninja has one, plus some in reserve for Sasha (who will graduate after we leave), and maybe a couple of spares, for whomever the Goketsu adopt while we're gone.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Based on the poison discussion from not that long ago I don't think it's really going to do anything. Whether that answer is satisfying or not shrug but the QMs have expressed a disinterest in poisoning tactics being a part of combat and have listed several reasons to disincentivize pursuing it
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Blerg. I was hoping that the paralytic, which Jiraiya, himself, was interested in, would counter that. Eh, no harm, no foul.
Side note: made an edit my previous post. Thoughts? It wouldn't take too much time, would help boost the Goketsu Clan, and they would retain the telescopes after we left.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I have no objections but also no strong feelings either way
I feel like "handicap" is an understatement - with Uplift altogether I can see how we'd fend off hunters and even minmax an assault on the rift with summon/SC spamming tactics, among other options. It isn't exactly easy but it seems feasible to accomplish a variety of objectives.
With just Hazou and Kagome I feel like if they come across like, a couple of chuunin, they're just cooked. If they reverse summon, that area gets trapped to hell and there's no way to safely return. And I dunno what our necro strat would be. EM rune nuke the rift site, hopefully without anyone noticing us set up I guess? And since we'd almost certainly be combat stagnant in this scenario since we can't afford any fights, we wouldn't be getting much better at making runes, much less any other skill.
I think for consistency's sake we might be able to use the paralytic as a one-off thing and encounter great difficulty finding those dragonflies again. But that aside, I realized something in the shower about Akatsuki's formation. We saw Itachi and Kisame together on the Seventh Path (close enough- Kisame isn't alone as per SOP and Itachi's the only other Summoner), so either those two or Akatsuki as a whole are taking the Dragonwar seriously enough for the Summoners to group up and do something about it. That leaves four members of Akatsuki. Given their buddy system and the lack of other Summoners, we'll never encounter a group of 3 Akatsuki for as long as the Dragonwar is ongoing. One pair is frequently busy with Dragons, another pair is frequently busy holding down the fort in Rain, leaving one pair to wander freely. I'm willing to bet Sasori and Konan are usually the homebodies, with their seal research/smithing and general logistics. So that just leaves Deidara and Hidan as the wandering pair. Nice to know and plan around.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Totally fair!
I'm just trying to think of low-cost ways to help the Goketsu while we're gone. We could also make a bunch of diamonds/gemstones, and store them into seals, leaving them in the Clan Vault. That way they don't go too bankrupt while we're gone.
They'll still need to learn not to spend it all at once and crash the market, but I think that the Scrip Incident will be remembered. By Gaku, at the very least, who will warn the next Clan Head.
Well, the Uchiha are one of the two main Founding Clans alongside the Senju, while Goketsu are just a Voting Clan with but a few years of history. Sure, Itachi went missing, but he wasn't the founder of the Uchiha, unlike Hazou who pretty much is because Jiraiya barely counts as one considering the time and effort we've respectively put into it. Big difference between one ninja going rogue and killing off his multi-generation "Leaf-Loyal" clanmates and the entire founding heart of a clan going missing 2-3 years after its inception, leaving peripheral adoptees and civilians.
Also, unlike the Uchiha, we do not have the Sharingan - while Sasuke was the only surviving ninja in the clan, there are plenty of civilians and over generations the bloodline limit would stay with Leaf and its such a good one that their can rights are secure just out of that sheer potential. Also other Clans would riot if the Uchiha were cast out of the Council, let alone dissolved, because of the precedent that would set.
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