CotWG works on MW. Since you can't double up on same element buffs, any other Wind MW buff she gets is almost certain to be obsolete.
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Texas
...it works on melee? Sage, Snuncle gives us the best toys.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Specifically, it works on weapons. If you use it on a melee weapon, then yes, it works in melee.
Maybe you could cast it on a bladed weapon that still rolls TJ? Like Asuma's trench knives
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Action Plan: Talking the Abomination to death (no, not those Abominations)
Okay, so I've updated Kei's possible training plans down below with her current XP values.
I maintain a personal preference for buying the FS + RW Buff combo stunt, in addition to the RW Buff + Rocket Boots combo stunt.
This provides a foundation for Kei learning the FS + Wind Element Buff + Rocket Boots triple combo stunt, which is only 200xp to buy (a little over half way there).
This will allow Kei to add FS, CotWG, and Reusable Rocket Boots to her Athletics rolls, and at least FS + CotWG to her RW rolls, while also setting her up for success if we can manage to get Rocket Boots to boost Kei's Ranged Weapons stat.
I suspect Kei's next few of hundred points of XP are going to be spent buying a triple combo stunt (-200xp) --which actually allows her to use CotWG in conjunction with other buffs --and then raising CotWG from level 20 to level 30 (-255xp).
Okay, so I've updated Kei's possible training plans down below with her current XP values.
I maintain a personal preference for buying the FS + RW Buff combo stunt, in addition to the RW Buff + Rocket Boots combo stunt.
This provides a foundation for Kei learning the FS + Wind Element Buff + Rocket Boots triple combo stunt, which is only 200xp to buy (a little over half way there).
This will allow Kei to add FS, CotWG, and Reusable Rocket Boots to her Athletics rolls, and at least FS + CotWG to her RW rolls, while also setting her up for success if we can manage to get Rocket Boots to boost Kei's Ranged Weapons stat.
I suspect Kei's next few of hundred points of XP are going to be spent buying a triple combo stunt (-200xp) --which actually allows her to use CotWG in conjunction with other buffs --and then raising CotWG from level 20 to level 30 (-255xp).
Last edited:
- Location
- United States
Are you saying that Mari now has two S-Tier buffs for her Taijutsu? I think it's time for 🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
- Location
- Texas
I think that we should separately buy the RB+Sub stunt to help her survive ambushes, since she will not have CotWG or FS active then. Reflexive buffs like sub and RB are the only things she will have available.
She has this already.
@Shrooms raised the point that we may want to go capstone with Sub+RB+CotWG. Since using FS is equivalent to taking Consequences, and in something like a delving scenario she'd want to take multiple fights.
- Location
- Texas
Oh thank goodness.
I see the logic in that, but since FS bonuses are for all rolls that round, are we basically choosing to not use it? Because if we're using it for attack rolls we might as well get the benefit for dodging too.
- Location
- United States
While that is an attractive option, I highly recommend we do RRB + Wind + Shadow instead of RRB + Wind + Substitution.
Kei's Shadow Step is strictly better than Substitution, and they're both currently the same level. It's also much cheaper to raise further, since it has half-cost for the next ten levels and it can be bought using YSJ XP which Kei is raking in on-mass from her Shadow Clones.
Once we confirm with her that it'd be better to use Shadow Step over Substitution in most or all situations, we should stop putting XP into it entirely.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
(Not thinking about this with max thoroughness since apathy also lowers your Resolve rolls and therefore you would be picking smaller bonuses every round, but anyway,) even same-fight it starts falling off p quick
FS 40's bonus R1:
20
Penalty: 20/5 = 4
Effective bonus:
16
FS 40's bonus R2:
20
Penalty: 20/5 = 4
Effective bonus:
12
R3 8, etc.
And those apathy points decrease all of her skills, not just dodging and attacking but ninjutsu etc as well. So while it is a buff... it's also kind of a self debuff. I think it works best when you want immediate maximum damage at a cost against a strong opponent. If you're fighting several opponents, or in a scenario where you will need to be acting over several rounds, like if you're chasing down a foe or something idk, FS is not a good option IMO
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's not clear to me that shadow step actually buffs the roll. It reads to me like you still use Substitution normally, and shadow step is just an add on effect. But it is possible! I'm also skeptical of them wanting to allow half costed Substitution when Substitution is already so good.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
I really liked this chapter. It's always nice seeing Hazō play in the big leagues. Shima and Fukuzaku not only straight up respecting us, but also telling us world shattering secrets they don't share with their own summoner, the Hagoromo cleric currying genuine favor and us being able to go all comparative mythology on him, the Arachnid Empress greeting us as a friend and VIP as we interrupt her meeting with an Akatsuki member, who we then not only warned off from his planned course of action, but who actually listened to our warning without much comment, deferring to our expertise.
All in all a great success. Even if the Isan thing finally reared its ugly head.
All in all a great success. Even if the Isan thing finally reared its ugly head.
- Location
- Texas
While Apathy does decrease all of her skills, FS also buffs all of those same skills, no? It's a net positive on everything until Keo turns it off. I agree that it is not the best at prolonged conflict, but most combat isn't prolonged. Even our plans for assassinating the Akatsuki don't call for things like that.
If we're choosing to drop FS for our buff triangle, it is essentially wasted XP. I am aware of sunk cost fallacies, but it is still something to think about.
How about a visit to Mist first before committing to a buff triangle? It's possible that with the Dragon threat and Kei's status as a summoner, the Mori will be willing to teach her stunts that make the combat FS more worthwhile. Yes the immediate Dragon threat might be dealt with, but the leak is still there. More will come.
- Location
- Pacific standard
This buff suite is actually Seal X Wind X Shadow, right? She wouldn't need an entire new 6 stunts or whatever if we made a different general Athletics boosting seal, right?
I mean hell if she did that's probably why sealmasters haven't taken over the world. Your teammates need to spend a significant portion of their training time integrating the seal- Okay no, the buff stunts were meant to clean up combat rolls and help the simulationism of keeping ninja to concise, heavily invested skill groups. The rocket boots stunt already represents training to integrate the seal into your athletics/taijutsu/whatnot - it's a specific technique. When we upgrade a specific Wind or Shadow technique, we don't need to rebuy the element stunts. I'd be pretty confused if sealmasters were unable to provide better buffs for their party as they level, considering the whole reason sealmastery is such a hot button topic in universe is how large of a power amplifier even a sealsmith is.
Ehhhh w/o mechanics it's tough to say.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Does Kei feel that Shadow Step is enough of an improvement over Sub in all situations that it's worth pursuing for her S-Rank build? Or do we play it safe and stick to Sub?
EDIT:
Shrooms made a good point here, is it possible that Sub and Shadoe Step overlap enough mechanically that the buff stunts for "Sub" work for Shadow Step too?
Last edited:
- Location
- United States
That would be strictly better, no? If the bonus is the same but it ALSO debuffs enemies than everything about it is as-good or better than substitution.
In fairness, this is a secret technique (that requires a secret element) of a founding clan.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
"We're rather fond of Cannai" should probably be changed to "Cannai is a powerful ally whose prosocial tendencies align with our goals," and then tack on a sub point of "readily admit personal fondness if called out. Personal and practical motivations aren't always mutually exclusive."
- Does he have any tactical insights from studying the Dragonbits?
- Cannai is a powerful ally whose prosocial tendencies align with our goals
- (Readily admit personal fondness for Cannai if called out. Personal and practical motivations aren't always mutually exclusive.)
- Cannai is a powerful ally whose prosocial tendencies align with our goals
Not to mention it would be unwise to call Itachi a coward in one breath, and then openly hope that a Dragon kills him for us in the next. I believe that we can frame this skepticism as a result of our limited data, and Orochimaru will respect Hazou's skepticism and request for more data (especially since it's relevant to the Dragonwar).
- Uncharacteristic that Kisame and Itachi would risk themselves in such a fight. Itachi, at least, is not known for his bravery (cite Itachi's behavior at O'uzu, and getting locked down by Kurenai, a "mere" jonin).
- What are your estimates on their actual contributions? According to our (currently limited) data on them...
- Kisame's claims to fame are "big sword, big reserves, big ninjutsu," but his brash personality may prevent meaningful battle tactics (cite Arachnid conversation).
- Many of the Dragons cannot be seen without severe danger (Darkness Dragon, Beautiful Dragon, Long Range Dragon), and so that makes Itachi's infamous genjutsu specialty (cite Battle of the Gods mission report) of questionable use
And then we'll want to rephrase the "interesting term." It's a bit like "ninshu is a cool word." It sounds... childish. Juvenile. Which will drain Orochimaru's social battery all the more. We'll also want to connect our dots a little bit, to show Orochimaru that we're not just baselessly speculating, but doing our best to draw conclusions based on the data that we have.
- We heard the Toad Sages refer to the Dragons as possible Externals. A fascinating concept. We don't suppose there's a bestiary lying around somewhere?
- The Tenfold Abomination might have also been an Eternal. If the Sage made the Dragons to fight the Tailed Beasts, and if the Dragons are also Eternals, does this mean the Dragons can't be killed?
- If so, what about the one we (seemed to) kill? Will it reform like a Tailed Beast?
- The Tenfold Abomination might have also been an Eternal. If the Sage made the Dragons to fight the Tailed Beasts, and if the Dragons are also Eternals, does this mean the Dragons can't be killed?
We'll want to be careful with bringing up the Hyuuga Clan. Orochimaru doesn't give a fuck about politics, and trying to bring it up may quickly drain his social battery.
- Finally, an explanation for the Conservative inclination towards short-sighted bigotry (cite Shikaku's claims that Hyuuga Bigotry hampered their longterm profit margins).
Further, I think we should expand a little bit on that last point. We have a vague guess as to what Pain's plan was, and we know that Orochimaru left the Akatsuki when he discovered it. So I think we can afford to be a little more bold, here. Not much, but a little bit.
- The Five as well, is it wise to let Externals to such an influence on the human species's own governance and affairs?
- Wouldn't such knowledge be tainted and warped by their Outer Nature?
- How is it tolerable that eldritch beings should influence our species, allowing them a toehold into our reality, allowing them to attempt to guide us towards their own ends, for their own goals?
- Why didn't the Sage simply seal them off more completely --as with the Dragons, who are also Eternals?
- Location
- United States
Mind changing this to "is as good or better than Sub" rather than "is always an improvement?"
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm saying it sounds to me like the defensive part would still be Substitution proper, and therefore the defensive buffs stunt would still be for Substitution. But hard to say without mechanics
We already spent XP on Sub stunts so it's actually gotta be enough better to overcome that.
I'm gonna yoink this into my post actually. Thanks
- Location
- United States
The only info we need from Kei is how does Shadow Step perform compared to Substitution at the same level. We can weigh that against XP efficiency ourselves (we're much better at it than Kei is).
Last edited:
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
@Paperclipped
Wait, this is not canon according to the Hagoromo, keepers of the canon of the Will of Fire? Because the cleric we got to loredump on us merely called Senju (the original) a companion of the So6P. Also I am surprised they are seen as respected keepers of religious lore in Leaf when they use it for self-aggrandizement and don't integrate at least parts of the relevant creation myths of the Village's founding Clans (like Nara being a companion and whatever the Hyūga claim to buff their noble standing).
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Shadow Step and Substitution aren't exclusive. Rather, the techniques work together and buff each other. For the purpose of Athletics, they combine natively (like Blast Rings + the Explosion Master fighting style), and for other purposes, they both benefit from being at a high level.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yumehara is but one source among many when it comes to analyzing the past, and Yumehara was not a member of the Hagoromo. Their stories are not required to match.