Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

FaintlySorcerous · Dec 29, 2023

@Shrooms did you have the post listing what we wanted from Orochimaru?

@eaglejarl can you take a look at the offscreen sections and calibrate me on whether they're reasonably likely to be placed offscreen? Would Mareo and Kumafuwafuwa run into the same scene? I want to make sure this doesn't overrun.

[X] Action Plan: Poking the Bears
Word count: <300

Optimize all with Kei/Mari/Noburi.
Mareo
- Apologize for our absence. Update him on everything that's happened.
  - Don't have an agenda: just talk to him, like he's our grandpa.
  - Maintain OPSEC.
- We're going to ask Kumafuwafuwa to join the Conclave. Any advice?
Kumafuwafuwa
- Would he join the Conclave?
  - Bring him up to speed if necessary - find out from Cannai what he knows.
  - Apologize for not reaching out earlier. We've had to cajole, convince, and wrangle self-interested, self-absorbed, and unreasonable Clans.
    - Implication: Bears are wise and magnanimous.
- Separately: we're going to ask our Boss about bringing Mareo to Leaf. If he says yes, we're going to ask Mareo.
  - He'd be protected by Leaf's best, equipped with our seals. All of them: clan secrets included.
  - He'd probably mostly stay in Bear, but on his good days, he'd have the option of being in Leaf.
  - Not giving Kumafuwafuwa a heads-up felt disrespectful. He deserves every chance to argue his case.
Kabuto (and Noburi, if he wants)
- Meet, chat, then put down all our privacy seals.
  - Goal: prevent him immediately rushing off to Orochimaru.
- We cracked 3D sealing. We'd like to trade this knowledge. To ensure that goes smoothly, we wanted to talk to Kabuto first.
- GO INTO WHAT WE WANT HERE.
- Will he get in touch with Orochimaru, or should we?
Offscreen:
- Ask Naruto about getting Kagome SC (Tsunade recommended it).
- …and if he'd send ANBU or some serious asskickers to escort Mareo to Leaf.
  - We'd equip them with Goketsu seals. Granted, on black paper, and we'd demand any unused seals be returned, but we want to maximize their chances of success.

Saint · Dec 29, 2023

I would like to remind people that repairing our relationship with Kagome would be valuable. As well as heeding Akimichi's advice on running missions with our Goketsu clan members or at least interacting with them more regularly.

FaintlySorcerous · Dec 29, 2023

RandomOTP said:
Sasuke

I think this is a waste of wordcount.

Paperclipped said:
Sasuke was unavailable to speak on account of his new position as a trusted advisor to the Hokage.

There's no reason to believe that this has changed and securing ninjutsu for Sasha is not time-sensitive on the order of days. It's also objectively less important than our getting Clan Head training. We can safely come back to this in a month.

RandomOTP said:
Trade:

Harumitsu's cold seals for Hazou's Conclave seals

Internally: an excuse to get his student a wider tech base, while also showing an active interest and acknowledgement of value in Harumitsu's work. Grit teeth, this is above personal disputes. We want Harumitsu to live a long life.

Conclave seals?

More to the point, this seems likely to be counterproductive. We're going to get skinned in negotiations and I think we should avoid interacting with Ritsuo especially after he's fresh off being beaten to a pulp by the KEI. He's going to be mad as hell. Our best bet for improving Goketsu-Hagoromo relations (which I think we should pursue) is making nice with the rank-and-file Hagoromo, many of whom have proved to be folks we can be around without risking our lives or theirs.

IMO we can and should just avoid being around Ritsuo. Hazo is incapable of being around him without making their relationship worse. Either Ritsuo will die, he'll step down as clan head because he goes too far with the KEI, or we'll get so powerful that we can hand him a jar to put his balls in and we'll get it back with a bow on top and a thank-you note. We can just wait.

If we want to give Harumitsu seals, we can just give him seals. We can engineer our own cold seal if we need one and do it trivially.

RandomOTP said:
A small mountain of seals (a la Yamanaka Deal)

Training a sealmaster (a la Hagoromo)

Master/Apprentice (a la Akane and KEI)

Seals and Sealing Notes of Jonin-Tier seals (perhaps from the pile that Itachi took from the Goketsu?)

We don't have the time to make a bunch of seals for Sasuke, we don't have time to train a sealmaster, all our senior nin are spoken for as far as apprenticeships go...remind me why we're trying so hard for this? We have far bigger fish to fry which are currently burning in the pan.

RandomOTP said:
Give Shinji and Kazushi a day off of sealing. Cover the difference with remaining SC hours. Any excess will be funneled into the Seal Bank.

Can we check in with them instead and see how they're doing? Again: we're massively time-constrained. The marginal value of our time is immense and this doesn't offer a clear benefit.

Ronike · Dec 29, 2023

eaglejarl said:
What sidequest are you thinking of? EDIT: Dur, you're talking about the "something in the cave for you" line. nm, I'm a dope.

Obviously the cave thing, but also 'hey have you considered killing the dragons might be the wrong move and you should focus more on fixing the great seal instead' feels a bit like a missed opportunity at this point as well, given the bosses are set to march on the dragons. To be fair, if we had pursued fixing the seal more at the detriment of pursuing killing the dragons, we would likely be getting the same sort of message in reverse. Also we could very well still have the chance to pursue the grand seal more when the bosses all die sooooo.... Fingers crossed we have actually missed that boat

strange_person · Dec 29, 2023

eaglejarl said:
What sidequest are you thinking of? EDIT: Dur, you're talking about the "something in the cave for you" line. nm, I'm a dope.

And possible Isanese dragon-lore.

Inferno Vulpix · Dec 29, 2023

RandomOTP said:
Kabuto

We need to get a message to Orochimaru ASAP regarding the Great Seal.

Did Orochimaru leave you a more expedient way of contacting him?

If Yes, deliver a sealed letter that updates him on our progress with regard to lithosealing. Imply we're willing to trade for it, negotiations themselves pending. Use obscure phrasing. Coordinate with Mari to toe the line between "vague enough for OPSEC but without pissing of Orochimaru." Coordinate with Kagome to encrypt this using one of Jiraiya's older cyphers (ideally one we know that Orochimaru knows, from Jiraiya's personal journals)

If not, post a Tower Mission to deliver the letter to Orochimaru (he was found when Asuma died, should be possible) and send a copy via the Snakes.

So imo there are two things I want done before we trade lithosealing to Orochimaru. The first is that I want to confer with our resident brains to optimize the deal (sadly Ami isn't here, but we'll still benefit greatly from Mari's help): this includes approach, timing, demeanor, and most crucially what we aim to ask for. We need to have our ducks in a row with contingencies prepared before we set anything into motion let Orochimaru flip the script. I do not put it past him to show up in our bedroom at 3 AM because he just got back in Leaf and is not inclined to wait, for instance.

The other is that, ideally, I'd hope to get some results from Team Turtle. If they harvest any crystal transport time back to Leaf is essentially 0 through the Seventh Path, so we may just be a few days away from having extra substrate to show him, which would improve our position. The counterbalance is, of course, that proactively sending a message out to him signals earnest cooperation and maximally satisfies his value of "you didn't keep this from me" which is also good for negotiations, and it's probably worse than default if he learns of lithosealing from Naruto instead of us, but I'm still not ready to jump on the "inform him as soon as physically possible" position.

Some things we can do to hedge our bets are talk with Naruto about informing us as soon as Orochimaru returns so that, if he arrives sooner than expected, we can seek him out before he can learn through other channels and/or leaving a message with Kabuto not necessarily to deliver ASAP but to deliver when Orochimaru returns. These would cover the case where Team Turtle doesn't pull through fast enough for our goals. Then, in the world where Team Turtle finishes faster, we pursue ASAP communication with Orochimaru because now we're in the ideal negotiating position.

And again, we need our ducks in a row for conversational approach, contingencies, and things to ask for. This is 100% a meeting worth having and I don't want to get caught flat-footed and have to improvise a conversation that simultaneously threads the needle of not annoying him yet also gets us what we want. I don't think we can afford to do this after sending out the letter: in the worst case Orochimaru is already back and just hasn't told anyone yet, or will be back within hours. It's important that we move quickly, but it's even more important that we do this in the right order.

faflec · Dec 29, 2023

Rafin said:
This does feel like a change from previous words of QM. Not that I'd be able to quote any...

Was all this true in Leaf before the formation of the KEI and the Nara Library as well? I distinctly recall that one of the indignities that the Clanless had to suffer was that all their jutsu were essentially considered Leaf common good if they didn't keep them really close to their chest.

@faflec Any idea if my brain is just making all this up?

OliWhail said:
The state can require a clanless ninja to hand over any techniques, seals, combat styles, etc, "for the good of the village." It isn't the default, and it only happens when an official order comes down signed directly by the Hokage, but it does happen. While clan ninja are exempt from this de-jure requirement, in a hypothetical life-or-death-for-the-village scenario there would be significant pressure on clans to share any secrets that were usable by outsiders.

Rafin · Dec 29, 2023

Ah. So it's just the Tower that has free access to all Clanless secrets. So pretty much if we share a secret outside the Clan then the Hokage can rightfully say that it can't have been that secret and that Leaf's security interests trump our interests in further profits for selling it to whoever next.

faflec · Dec 29, 2023

Rafin said:
Ah. So it's just the Tower that has free access to all Clanless secrets. So pretty much if we share a secret outside the Clan then the Hokage can rightfully say that it can't have been that secret and that Leaf's security interests trump our interests in further profits for selling it to whoever next.

Essentially, though that'll require the Hokage to specifically do so (and given that it's currently Naruto...)

Left-Hand Mutant · Dec 29, 2023

FaintlySorcerous said:
Separately: we're going to ask our Boss about bringing Mareo to Leaf. If he says yes, we're going to ask Mareo.

I expect Kuma will NOT like the framing of "we've decided to do this, just FYI". Or anything the could look like us snatching Mareo from under his nose.

We should bring it up as an idea, pitch why we think it's good for Mareo, and ask him what he thinks. He knows Mareo better than we do, and is fiercely protective.

FaintlySorcerous said:
We'd equip them with Goketsu seals. Granted, on black paper, and we'd demand any unused seals be returned, but we want to maximize their chances of success.

Mars isn't worth the OpSec issues. And Leaf is precarious and short on elite firepower.
And Mareo is a serious asskicker with an extradimensional escape route. And being sourounded by ANBU seems like it would make him... uneasy.

"Send a personality-compatable Chunin with skywalkers" seems like a better proposal, and much less threatening to Mareo. The trip back would just involve running/camping a few km above the ocean until the get to Fire. Hazo did that as an actual Genin, it'll be fine.

FaintlySorcerous · Dec 29, 2023

Left-Hand Mutant said:
I expect Kuma will NOT like the framing of "we've decided to do this, just FYI". Or anything the could look like us snatching Mareo from under his nose.

We should bring it up as an idea, pitch why we think it's good for Mareo, and ask him what he thinks. He knows Mareo better than we do, and is fiercely protective.

I don't think we should ask Kuma for permission to ask Mareo what he wants to do. It's not Kuma's call. If he said no, either we ignore him or we ignore Mareo's agency.

It might make sense to get an okay from Naruto first - prevents borrowing trouble.

Skywalkers is a great idea. I'll make updates.

Left-Hand Mutant · Dec 29, 2023

Inferno Vulpix said:
So imo there are two things I want done before we trade lithosealing to Orochimaru. The first is that I want to confer with our resident brains to optimize the deal (sadly Ami isn't here, but we'll still benefit greatly from Mari's help): this includes approach, timing, demeanor, and most crucially what we aim to ask for. We need to have our ducks in a row with contingencies prepared before we set anything into motion let Orochimaru flip the script. I do not put it past him to show up in our bedroom at 3 AM because he just got back in Leaf and is not inclined to wait, for instance.

The other is that, ideally, I'd hope to get some results from Team Turtle. If they harvest any crystal transport time back to Leaf is essentially 0 through the Seventh Path, so we may just be a few days away from having extra substrate to show him, which would improve our position. The counterbalance is, of course, that proactively sending a message out to him signals earnest cooperation and maximally satisfies his value of "you didn't keep this from me" which is also good for negotiations, and it's probably worse than default if he learns of lithosealing from Naruto instead of us, but I'm still not ready to jump on the "inform him as soon as physically possible" position.

Some things we can do to hedge our bets are talk with Naruto about informing us as soon as Orochimaru returns so that, if he arrives sooner than expected, we can seek him out before he can learn through other channels and/or leaving a message with Kabuto not necessarily to deliver ASAP but to deliver when Orochimaru returns. These would cover the case where Team Turtle doesn't pull through fast enough for our goals. Then, in the world where Team Turtle finishes faster, we pursue ASAP communication with Orochimaru because now we're in the ideal negotiating position.

And again, we need our ducks in a row for conversational approach, contingencies, and things to ask for. This is 100% a meeting worth having and I don't want to get caught flat-footed and have to improvise a conversation that simultaneously threads the needle of not annoying him yet also gets us what we want. I don't think we can afford to do this after sending out the letter: in the worst case Orochimaru is already back and just hasn't told anyone yet, or will be back within hours. It's important that we move quickly, but it's even more important that we do this in the right order.

Strongly support this. I hope to vote against any plan that prematurely rushes into the Oro meeting, and I hope to vote for plans that discuss the situation with our advisors

Kylinger · Dec 29, 2023

FaintlySorcerous said:
I don't think we should ask Kuma for permission to ask Mareo what he wants to do. It's not Kuma's call. If he said no, either we ignore him or we ignore Mareo's agency.

It might make sense to get an okay from Naruto first - prevents borrowing trouble.

Skywalkers is a great idea. I'll make updates.

Note that Mareo is an old man with dementia- the bear boss, his longest living friend, has a very valid reason to consider ignoring his agency. Agency is all well and good, but when you are caring for somebody who has lost their faculties sometimes you have to make important decisions for them.

TBH I'm skeptical having Mareo in Leaf would actually improve his quality of life- a friendly demigod who he cannot hurt is likely a better caretaker than anybody we could provide.

Would it even be safe for him to have human caretakers? (Absent Tsunade taking an interest in him or SC nurses.)

cog-nito · Dec 29, 2023

[X] Action Plan: Poking the Bears

faflec · Dec 29, 2023

[X] Action Plan: Poking the Bears

FaintlySorcerous said:
Would he join the Conclave?

The Conclave is a meeting in Pangolin for the clans in the Eastern Continent. The Crusade is the war against the Dragons. I feel we care more about Kumafuwafuwa joining the latter than the former.

FaintlySorcerous said:
Separately: we're going to ask our Boss about bringing Mareo to Leaf. If he says yes, we're going to ask Mareo.

A concern for the whole section: I would like to get Kumafuwafuwa's permission first rather than Naruto's (our Boss?) and then Mareo. Though we did already ask Asuma...

FaintlySorcerous said:
GO INTO WHAT WE WANT HERE.

Forbidden Lore: Primal Malice. The Tenfold Abomination. The Binding of the Outer Path. Ninshu.
- I know we asked some of these before and Orochimaru got annoyed with us, but I want the Forbidden Lore.
Everything he knows about the Forbidden Dungeon on Crimson State Island.
- Ignoring the potential as a source of chakra metal, it's the likely location of the Rat Scroll and Forbidden Lore.
All the progress he's made on 3D Sealing.
- We may have been the first to make the seal, but Orochimaru must have had insights we didn't.
Money.
- I mean, knowing our luck, Mari's plans will collapse in the next three seconds and we'll go bankrupt.

Heleor · Dec 29, 2023

If not, may we have your permission to ask the Hagoromo Loremasters about them?

This sounds like something that would be more successful if we ask Naruto to delegate (leaving our names out of it), rather than us trying to do it ourselves.

Korporati · Dec 29, 2023

acidshill said:
>they were in Isan 💀

Interesting. Now I'm tempted to go through all Isan lore and mythology quotes to see if there's any mention of the dragons.

Altho it could also be whirlpool considering their specialty is sealing.

Saint · Dec 29, 2023

[X] Action Plan: Best Everyone Acquires Ridiculous Seals (BEARS)
Word count: <314

Optimize all with Kei/Mari/Noburi/Kagome.
Mareo
- Apologize for our absence. Update him on everything that's happened.
  - Ask him if we can talk to him and Kumafuwafuwa together about the Conclave/Cruade
  - Ask if he is aware of everything that is going on (might already know)
  - Apologize for not reaching out earlier. We've had to cajole, convince, and wrangle self-interested, self-absorbed, and unreasonable Clans.
    - Implication: Bears are wise and magnanimous.
  - We would also like to offer Mareo the ability to come into Leaf, that way if Kumafuwafuwa is at the Conclave/Crusade Mareo has a safe place
  - Can set up a meeting between a Leaf representative and Kumafuwafuwa + Mareo if they are interested (Make sure we can do this beforehand)
  - We will set up Mareo to be protected (no Clan Secrets because brain problems)
  - Maintain OPSEC.
Kabuto (and Noburi, if he wants)
- Before talking with Kabuto check with the Hokage to see if we could have a Hokage rep to help negotiate a deal for sharing this information as it pertains to the Dragons and existential threats
  - Everyone involved would have to be sworn to secrecy
- Meet, polite small talk, then put down all our privacy seals.
  - Goal: prevent him immediately rushing off to Orochimaru.
- We cracked 3D sealing. We'd like to trade this knowledge. To ensure that goes smoothly, we wanted to talk to Kabuto first.
- What we want will be part of a later action plan, this is just seeing if Orochimaru would be interested
- Will he get in touch with Orochimaru, or should we?
Cooking with Kagome!
- Start a semi-weekly tradition of making a fun new dish for all the Goketsu .
- This is an effort to repair the relationship with Kagome, who we love
Offscreen:
- Ask Naruto about getting Kagome SC (Tsunade recommended it).

EDIT: I realize I dont know if it is bad manners to harvest parts of another person's plan, if so I apologize. Obviously a lot of this comes from

FaintlySorcerous

. So yeah, my bad if that is not cool.

Velorien · Dec 29, 2023

Saint said:
EDIT: I realize I dont know if it is bad manners to harvest parts of another person's plan, if so I apologize. Obviously a lot of this comes from

This is in fact standard practice around here. A winning plan will often be a Frankensteinian monstrosity of the best parts (in the plan-maker's opinion) of a number of other plans, plus modifications clearly spelled out for voters.

Saint · Dec 29, 2023

Velorien said:
This is in fact standard practice around here. A winning plan will often be a Frankensteinian monstrosity of the best parts (in the plan-maker's opinion) of a number of other plans, plus modifications clearly spelled out for voters.

Thanks for letting me know : )

coldcutconvict · Dec 29, 2023

eaglejarl said:
Investigating the Great Seal would take considerable time in the narrative. Hazō could potentially get much more out of the attempt now!

[X] The Dragon Calls.
Less than 300 words.

Investigate the Great Seal with SCs.
- Directions of investigation.
  - Can we tell how fast it is deteriorating? Is the deteriorating constant or variable? Is the whole seal deteriorating at the same rate?
  - Look for recognizable functions.
    - Storage? Locking?
    - Is there a broken self repair function?
    - Are there nodes that look like they correspond to The Five, tailed beasts or the Paths?
Shikamaru, Kei, Snowflake.
- The Conclave sets off in a month. The Condors are released into Toad custody.
- Could not have been done without Asuma. No way we do not encourage Naruto to give a speech thanking him when this is all over.
- Share what Kangaroo summoner told you. Bring up Isanese Dragon lore. Preta Path. Origin of 5 elements. What are we allowed to share back with her? What should be shared with others? Orochimaru - through his GS snake?
- What do they think about the Dragons' behavior? Would mindless beasts stay guard at the GS for so long? Did they gain sentience from consuming a Boss? If killing them is dangerous, does Shikamaru think we can communicate with them? How?
  - Is there something we should try now that they split up?
    - Like ask Orochimaru to remotely flash them images related to the Sage?
    - Or kill the ones that are alone and set up skyslicers for when the others return?
      - Worried killing them might send them to the Pure Lands, immune to chakra drain.
- What should we do about the traveling Dragons? Will they kill another clan? Intercept Katsuya or the Crusade?
Get SC for Kagome.
- Explain our conversation with Tsunade.
- Broach teaching it to hospital medics for more hands in emergencies.
  - Yes, we think Noburi should have it too.

RandomOTP · Dec 29, 2023

[X] The Dragon Calls.

Saint · Dec 29, 2023

coldcutconvict said:
[X] The Dragon Calls.
Less than 300 words.

Investigate the Great Seal with SCs.

Directions of investigation.

Can we tell how fast it is deteriorating? Is the deteriorating constant or variable? Is the whole seal deteriorating at the same rate?

Look for recognizable functions.

Storage? Locking?

Is there a broken self repair function?

Are there nodes that look like they correspond to The Five, tailed beasts or the Paths?

Shikamaru, Kei, Snowflake.

The Conclave sets off in a month. The Condors are released into Toad custody.

Could not have been done without Asuma. No way we do not encourage Naruto to give a speech thanking him when this is all over.

Share what Kangaroo summoner told you. Bring up Isanese Dragon lore. Preta Path. Origin of 5 elements. What are we allowed to share back with her? What should be shared with others? Orochimaru - through his GS snake?

What do they think about the Dragons' behavior? Would mindless beasts stay guard at the GS for so long? Did they gain sentience from consuming a Boss? If killing them is dangerous, does Shikamaru think we can communicate with them? How?

Is there something we should try now that they split up?

Like ask Orochimaru to remotely flash them images related to the Sage?

Or kill the ones that are alone and set up skyslicers for when the others return?

What should we do about the traveling Dragons? Will they kill another clan? Intercept Katsuya or the Crusade?

Room for one more scene.

Are you concerned that you might only have a limited amount of time before the Crusade shows up and fights the dragons?

Also it seems the dragons are currently active and so approaching them might be very difficult. Especially since Sanctuary, where we used to base our operations out of, is now evacuated.

I fear the ship may have sailed for investigating the Great Seal, at least until the Dragons are dead or all of the Clan Bosses are dead.

Sir Stompy · Dec 29, 2023

[X] Action Plan: Happenings on the Paths
Word count: 299

Optimize all with Kei/Mari/Noburi
Offscreen:
- Ask Tsunade about Mareo's wandering wits during one of our healing sessions. Can anything be done? Also ask Ino for additional suggestions.
- Confirm Tower authorization to repatriate Mareo.
- Send an emissary to Sharks/Porcupines warning them of Dragons on the move.
Mareo:
- While maintaining OPSEC, update him on everything that's happened: Akane, Asuma, Hazou's injury, the Conclave, the Dragons.
  - Don't have an agenda: just talk to him, like a respected elder.
- We're going to ask Kumafuwafuwa to join the Crusade. Any advice?
Kumafuwafuwa:
- Would he join the Crusade?
  - Bring him up to speed if necessary - ask Cannai what he knows.
  - Apologize for not reaching out earlier. We've had to cajole, convince, and wrangle self-interested, self-absorbed, and intractable Eastern Clans.
    - Implication: Bears are wise and thoughtful.
- Discuss moving Mareo's Human Path location to Leaf.
  - Optimize extensively with Mari. Don't risk a poor reaction from Kumafuwafuwa.
  - We have safe ways of travelling: Skywalkers, Skytowers.
  - Leaf provides him greater access to human-specific comforts and other humans. He can still spend most of his time in Bear.
Team YOUTH
- Mindset: throwing our full weight behind them.
- Via the 7th Path, we can…
  - …offer skytowers, skywalkers, skyslicers(?), Hazou's goo bombs, explosives, anything not secret. Go over the list with optimizers/Kagome.
  - …provide a standby medic and extra chakra.
- Reach out to King Kamehameha (via letter - delivered by Neji). While maintaining OPSEC on runes, as an authority on the Great Seal, implore him to grant Neji temporary contracts for this mission. In Hazou's estimation, it is critical to understanding the Great Seal.
  - Include a summary of the Cavern's threats and challenges: a Dog was hurt by mental attacks.
  - Does Neji have the reserves for a mini Zoo Rush? If so, fund chakra drain missions to keep it going.

------------------------
This considerably over WC, I'll be back to trim it tonight and tomorrow. Suggestions welcome. Ping me here or Discord if you want changes.

Shrooms · Dec 29, 2023

FaintlySorcerous said:
@Shrooms did you have the post listing what we wanted from Orochimaru?

Shrooms said:
Oro trade deal asks

Also for those including Mareo scenes, unless Hazou was meeting up w him offscreen he was never told Akane died either

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

^_^