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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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ProperAttorney said:
We unfortunately don't know those two yet, and I don't think there are plans for researching them before 4FSoP.
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Shrooms said:
Hazou doesn't know either of these to my knowledge.
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Well, rip.

Is it possible we make 4FSoP intentionally shittier (Hard to activate without MARS or a clone technique to do it with good timing) to make it better in other ways without changing the TNs overly much?

It seems like this seal is exactly what Mari needs as far as Genjutsu support juice goes (put enemy/enemies in a box, or vice versa, apply genjutsu). Perhaps we should prioritize this a bit?
 
MMKII said:
Well, rip.

Is it possible we make 4FSoP intentionally shittier (Hard to activate without MARS or a clone technique to do it with good timing) to make it better in other ways without changing the TNs overly much?

It seems like this seal is exactly what Mari needs as far as Genjutsu support juice goes (put enemy/enemies in a box, or vice versa, apply genjutsu). Perhaps we should prioritize this a bit?
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I don't think it makes much sense to modify it before learning the original version, it'd be much easier to use the veterancy from already knowing it and we wouldn't be able to apply notes bonus if we start with the original version
 
Sir Stompy said:
I think you're missing the point. 2-4 days per research cycle is a big deal. That's roughly half as fast as a 5 day cycle. Which is my estimate for the RB cycle.
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It's still a total of ... what, 4 days? Maybe 8? CATEARS has a massive complexity reduction, we'll probably finish it in a single cycle since it's only chuunin difficulty and we have a lot of veterancy for it.
 
ProperAttorney said:
It's still a total of ... what, 4 days? Maybe 8? CATEARS has a massive complexity reduction, we'll probably finish it in a single cycle since it's only chuunin difficulty and we have a lot of veterancy for it.
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If CATEARS has a TN of 50, and veterancy reduced complexity by 75% it would have a complexity of ~13. If the TN was reduced to 45 by veterancy, we'd need to roll 84 to finish it in a single cycle. Very doable with SSA, no chance without it imo.
 
Shrooms said:
If CATEARS has a TN of 50, and veterancy reduced complexity by 75% it would have a complexity of ~13. If the TN was reduced to 45 by veterancy, we'd need to roll 84 to finish it in a single cycle. Very doable with SSA, no chance without it imo.
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We have multiple seals that reduce its veterancy though. LBF, ARS, MARS.

I also think this is one of those rare cases where the complexity reduction approaches maximum value. It's hard to think of seals that are more similar without approaching pure memery (A red light seal vs a red-orange light seal).
acidshill said:
Sealing
  • Protocol: Hazou-pilot's best judgement
  • Shadow Clone: Finish Minato Seal 7, then Minato Seal 8
  • Prime: Rocket Boots
  • Non-SSA SCs research Earth Pillar seal and CATEARS if possible
  • Ask junior sealmasters to assess and identify Sarubetsu/Isan seals
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Could you include the SC reading 4 shifts of Oro's sealing notes too?
acidshill said:
  • Cannai
    • We think we can do 3D sealing if we have infusable material
    • Ask for his help investigating the difference between chakra crystal and stone, and trying to make stone infusable
  • Work with a Crystal Release expert (Canain or someone else) to investigate the crystals they release and experiment with trying to make something infusable
  • Chakra beast bones
    • If they're readily available
      • See what it takes for Earthshaping to become able to manipulate them
      • Test them for infusibility
    • If not, experiment with them when we acquire them later
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I heard from Paper on Discord that we have to vote in the experiment with densified diamond weapons and masterwork steel in again if we want answers for them, so if that's something you want to include in your ES experimentation section....

He also said we have to vote in Kei testing RB attached to the back of her kunai to see if it works. Don't know if that can be offscreened, doesn't really fit in with the scenes we have.
 
acidshill said:
Does anyone want any further changes to this? And would someone who understands the sealing rules better than I do please confirm this makes sense, will not lead to disaster, and will properly convey our intentions to the QMs?
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I'm not a fan of this. This chapter more than drove home that we should be researching 4FSoP ASAP. I strongly encourage replacing either the Rocket Boots or the Minato Seals with it.
  • Shadow Clone: Finish Minato Seal 7, then Minato Seal 8
  • Prime: Rocket Boots
 
ProperAttorney said:
Could you include the SC reading 4 shifts of Oro's sealing notes too?
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Done

ProperAttorney said:
I heard from Paper on Discord that we have to vote in the experiment with densified diamond weapons and masterwork steel in again if we want answers for them, so if that's something you want to include in your ES experimentation section....
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ProperAttorney said:
He also said we have to vote in Kei testing RB attached to the back of her kunai to see if it works. Don't know if that can be offscreened, doesn't really fit in with the scenes we have.
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Please suggest wordings for these things because I have no idea what they are.
 
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RandomOTP said:
Honestly, the main thing I want from the Yamanaka is the reputational defense against The Hagoromo rival Clans. Whether @_The_Bomb's trade plan wins, or mine does, I'm happy.
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Is there anything I could charge that would make you take down your plan? As is, my plan places the reputations defense as first priority and then the scroll hunt you want as second priority. They're practically identical, except in mine we could acquire concessions in addition to the ones you requested depending on how much the Yamanaka value our seals. Just giving us some extra options, you know?
 
_The_Bomb said:
Is there anything I could charge that would make you take down your plan? As is, my plan places the reputations defense as first priority and then the scroll hunt you want as second priority. They're practically identical, except in mine we could acquire concessions in addition to the ones you requested depending on how much the Yamanaka value our seals. Just giving us some extra options, you know?
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Oh, agreed, but enough people have voted for the plan that I couldn't take it down in good conscience.
 
acidshill said:
Please suggest wordings for these things because I have no idea what these are.
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My understand of it is that we're using Hazo's ES to condense carbon into densified diamond weapons, and using Hazo's ES to try to replicate a sample of masterwork steel from... a less good sample of steel? Not sure about that one, it was just one of the questions from when we did the mega ES testing chapter.
 
RandomOTP said:
Oh, agreed, but enough people have voted for the plan that I couldn't take it down in good conscience.
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Then is there anything I could do that would convince you to unvote for your plan and encourage @FaintlySorcerous, @Pharos, @Shrooms, and @Sir Stompy to at least take a look at mine?
_The_Bomb said:
Hazō can make a Goo Bomb seal in five minutes, meaning he can make 12 per hour, and 108 per "day" (which EJ defined as 9 hours). We'll likely be splitting this up to shadow clones (three clones each spend three hours on Making Goo Bombs, and then do training as normal) so that we don't spend nine hours straight doing route repetetive work.

[Yamanaka] Summoning Scrolls proposes Hazō/his clones spend 27 hours per month creating these seals for the next year, or

(108 seals / day) * (3 days / month) * (12 months / year) = 3888 seals​

Goo Bombs, especially ones made by Hazō, are incredibly powerful seals and are absolute game changers in genin-level (and often even chūnin-level!) fights. There is no world in which trading nearly four thousand of these seals is worth a few weeks mission time, not even a squad of preNeedlePoint Senior Yamanka jōnin are on that mission.

We absolutely should acquire Yamanaka assistance on Sealing Scroll missions in this deal, but what we are giving is worth substantially more than that. We could ask for cash (which we already have in abundance), but you know what would really empower our clan? More techniques (especially non-elemental ones) that our clan members can learn.

I highly doubt they'd be willing to give up any of their juicy clan secrets, but they have far more techniques than just that. The Yamanaka are a Founding Clan and must have picked up some good things that aren't exclusive to them (and therefore not clan secrets) nor are already in the Leaf Private Library.

Here's what I propose:

[X] [Yamanaka] Good for the Yamanaka, Good for the Gōketsu
  • Gōketsu Offer
    • Up to a maximum of 300 full-strength Goo Bombs per month (3600 in total)
  • In exchange (sorted by Hazō's priority, top-to bottom) for the Yamanaka to:
    • Provide ongoing assistance improving Clan Gōketsu (and also Hazō specifically)'s reputation.
    • Have a senior Yamanaka (preferably Ino) accompany the Gōketsu on Scroll Hunting missions over the next year and give up all ownership claims on recovered scrolls.
    • Provide good ninjutsu to the Gōketsu Clan
      • We're not after their clan's prized secret techniques, but they surely have picked up some high-level techniques from deals or....observations that aren't exclusive to them but aren't so proliferated to be in the Private Library.
      • Ideally Nonelemental or Lightning Element, so that it's useable for most of the clan
    • Provide ongoing assistance on helping Clan Gōketsu maintain its OPSEC and dealing with leaks, if an issue ever arrises.
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@Velorien @eaglejarl @Paperclipped
It's been mentioned a few times in discord that we might not be allowed to use the audit XP or any XP gained before Ch 606 to purchase the PS stunt. Is this actually the case? If you're able to let us know before then, we can start spending Hazo's saved XP on other things now.
 
acidshill said:
[X] Action Plan: Cannai! We Need to Cook
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Reorganized some things to make it (hopefully) clearer.

acidshill said:
Sealing
  • Research as many of the following seals (ordered from lowest to highest priority) as we safely and simultaneously can
  • Use Hazōpilot's best judgement to determine SSA usage, prep days, FP usage, which seals to assign to SCs, etc.
    • Do not research everything if FP are insufficient
    • Suggestion: Prime does RB, SCs do JC with SSA, EP and CATEARS without SSA
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I would appreciate feedback on this. The intention is to use Hazōpilot's/Paper's judgement to determine specifics, as much as possible.

acidshill said:
Ask junior sealmasters to assess and identify Sarubetsu/Isan seals
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Sanity check: are these seals which we are formally/legally allowed to have? Will it raise red flags if we're doing a bad job pretending that Isan is a valued ally which definitely still exists and which we aren't allowed to steal seals from? If these are seals which Hazō downloaded with the Iron Nerve, do the junior sealmasters actually know the Iron Nerve can do that or are they going to be very confused why Hazō is asking them to identify seals which he just drew?
 
acidshill said:
[X] Action Plan: Cannai! We Need to Cook
Word Count: 299
  • Offscreen
    • Acquire chakra beast bones
    • Find out Sasha's element and preferred build
    • Set up system for clan members to safely interrupt us during sealing research, using flags or other signal which we check for when not busy infusing
    • Assign SC to read 4 shifts of Orochimaru's sealing notes
    • Ask junior sealmasters to assess and identify Sarubetsu/Isan seals
      • If they ask, imply we captured the blanks on one of our adventures
  • PS Experiments
    • OOC: The intention is for you to write whatever subset of this you like, however you like, and offscreen the rest
    • Work with Crystal Release expert (Canain or someone else) to investigate the crystals they release and try to make something infusable
    • Chakra beast bones
      • Can earthshaping manipulate them?
      • Try to make them infusable
    • Cannai
      • Tell him we think we can do 3D sealing if we have infusable material
      • Ask for his help (using his landsense) investigating the difference between chakra crystal and stone, and trying to make stone infusable
      • Optionally also experiment with Crystal Release crystals and/or chakra beast bones
    • Noburi
      • Ask for his help trying to manipulate chakra to grow more chakra crystal
      • Experiment with earthshaping rocks and chakra crystal while submerged in water that Noburi is controlling/draining
        • Correlate feedback Hazō gets from earthshaping with feedback Noburi gets from VD
    • Attempt to make calligraphy brushes with earthshaped diamond thread
  • Sealing
    • Research as many of the following seals (ordered from lowest to highest priority) as we safely and simultaneously can
    • Use Hazōpilot's best judgement to determine SSA usage, prep days, FP usage, which seals to assign to SCs, etc.
      • Do not research everything if FP are insufficient
      • Suggestion: Prime does RB, SCs do JC with SSA, EP and CATEARS without SSA
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re:
  • Set up system for clan members to safely interrupt us during sealing research, using flags or other signal which we check for when not busy infusing
I would suggest adding a few flags for things like "I am being forced to do this by someone of authority over me" and "I am being forced to do this by someone hostile".
 
Cariyaga said:
I would suggest adding a few flags for things like "I am being forced to do this by someone of authority over me" and "I am being forced to do this by someone hostile".
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If you can suggest modifications to the plan that will let me fit it in without going over wordcount, I'd be interested, but right now I'm at 299 words and can't go much lower without sacrificing clarity.
 
acidshill said:
If you can suggest modifications to the plan that will let me fit it in without going over wordcount, I'd be interested, but right now I'm at 299 words and can't go much lower without sacrificing clarity.
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"Using flags for various circumstances we check while not infusing" should save a few words
 
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