Oh, right, was about to mention that too. I think we should directly spell out that Hazou isn't proactively blaming Shikamaru and that he's aware that him even contemplating this is pretty shocking. It's quite clear what we're implying here, and I'm reasonably confident it's going to lead to Kei being aghast and disappointed in Hazou, if we don't make our non-commitment to this hypothesis very clear.

Personally i think both Shikamaru and Kei would find it fake. Of course Shikamaru contemplated it, it's his whole job as a Nara and Asuma's second/third in command, after all. Still, i guess better safe than sorry?
 
Wait a minute. The plan just says to give her the mirror, not to tell her anything about it.

Why would Hazōpilot say this much and wouldn't the sanity check have stopped him?
I've been increasingly having these questions - QM characterization of Hazo seems like it's going further and further, and IMO regularly to the detriment of the player base and sometimes directly contradicting what's in plans. I have an effortpost on this topic that might wind up being a PM to the QMs in the pipeline: I'd like to understand if the QMs share my perspective as to what's happening, get some understanding of why it's happening, and what we can do to find a mutually-satisfying solution.

In other words...

"...when you want to end a conflict with someone peacefully, you talk to them. It's by no means easy, but it is simple."
To be fair, he didn't plan on saying it. He just got socially maneuvered into saying more than expected by a social-fu specialist who got him feeling comfortable so he lowered his guard.
If there had been rolls here illustrating that's what happened, then that would have made sense to me, but a) you don't do social combat to your boyfriend and b) Hazo clearly put forethought into this - why didn't he have literally any answer ready especially given that the plan was sanity-checked?

To be clear, I don't think this is a huge problem: I think that what's in my plan more than addresses the topic. But this is pretty confusing.
 
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Um, were we not deliberately hands-off on OPSEC here, because we expect Ino to keep it quiet and because we're fine with whatever she does with the information she infers from the mirror's existence and because it's not like anything bad will happen even if we told her everything about Earthshaping? I... thought that was an implicit show of trust on our part?

It's been my impression that the fact that the mirror is an OPSEC breach was clear to everyone, both OOC and IC, so obvious that we didn't even bother clarifying that fact to the Hazoupilot, because we expected him to figure it out on his own.

Was that... not everyone's understanding of the plan? Um.
 
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It's not like this is classified, so even if Asuma is expecting his ANBU to shut their mouth, they will likely push clan members and friends towards ES.

And Earth isn't a common element in Leaf and still needs ~50 level training. This isn't some overnight thing.

edit: Basically, take the win, make some money and invest intelligently.
 
If Earthshaping doesn't unlock 3D Sealing, I won't be too annoyed. We used it to unlock unlimited gems and high quality iron. It's useful in its own right.

But... I'm not sure what else would. Hazou-the-character has Sealing: Yes, and doesn't know. Orochimaru the Sannin tried using bone and got nothing. If ES doesn't unlock 3D Sealing, then what will?
To further expand my thoughts on this (mused about it while driving this morning), I kinda feel like we-the-playerbase don't really have an accurate enough ability to figure out 3D Sealing. We've been told that the sealing terms ("wuddershifting") and mechanics ("chthonic resonances") we read within the narrative is pure technobabble.

I want to clarify that I'm okay with Sealing being blackboxed in the way that it is. This saves the QMs from having to create a highly technical, complicated, and deadly magic system that's influenced by lunar phases, seasons, ambient chakra levels, and a million other minute details that would be a pain to track mechanically.

However, the flip side of this this is that we-the-playerbase have to pin our hopes on Hazou-the-character (or Orochimaru) figuring it out... they both have Sealing stat: Yes, and have no clue.

This, too, is fair. Rediscovery of lost ancient/powerful magics, re-purposing current tools to a new task that they were not originally created/optimized for, and whatnot. If rediscovering 3D Sealing were easy, it would not have been lost for long.

This all said, if ES doesn't eventually unlock 3D Sealing, then I-the-player am genuinely at a loss for what will. And I'm also worried about what the Dragons will do in the time that it takes us to level ES that high.
 
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If we ever get married to Ino, I hope we maximally trust her and can confide in her all our opsec secrets. It's terribly risky, but it's also exhausting and lonely to be working toward goals that noone else can know about and facing hard choices based on knowledge noone else can be told.

Same for Ami but without the marriage bit. The chances of death by Kei are worryingly high in that scenario...
 
To further expand my thoughts on this (mused about it while driving this morning), I kinda feel like we-the-playerbase don't really have an accurate enough ability to figure out 3D Sealing. We've been told that the sealing terms ("wuddershifting") and mechanics (chthonic resonances") we read within the narrative is pure technobabble.

I want to clarify that I'm okay with Sealing being blackboxed in the way that it is. This saves the QMs from having to create a highly technical, complicated, and deadly magic system that's influenced by lunar phases, seasons, ambient chakra levels, and a million other minute details that would be a pain to track mechanically.

However, the flip side of this this is that we-the-playerbase have to pin our hopes on Hazou-the-character (or Orochimaru) figuring it out... they both have Sealing stat: Yes, and have no clue (which is fair. Rediscovery of lost magics, re-purposing tools that are ill-suited to the new task, and whatnot).

This said, if ES doesn't eventually unlock 3D Sealing, then I'm genuinely at a loss for what will. And I'm also worried about what the Dragons will do in the time that it takes us to level ES that high.
Something along these lines keeps gnawing at me too. Is the 3D Sealing unlock supposed to be simple to reach after we hit a qualitative threshold and test it out (like we did with ES 50)? Is it locked until we make a truly impressive deduction/guess on the player-side? Even when so much of Sealing is inscrutible technobabble by design? The part of me that worries about worst-case-scenarios is fretting that the QMs want us to do a deep dive into the bare metal wires of the simulation but we've been conditioned towards learned helplessness by the technobabble explicitly designed to keep us from interacting with Sealing on any level other than the abstract.

And so that part of me is trying its best to gain some kind of model of the bare metal wires of the simulation here, but it's still 99% blackboxed and the remaining 1% doesn't even seem to make sense (i.e. Hazou implying in one chapter that most seals involve brushstrokes that touch each other and Velorien saying just now that seal brushstrokes never touch each other and that it doesn't even really matter which in the end because Sealing is supposed to be technobabble). I don't mean that as a dig or anything, but the part of me that worries we're expected to engage on this level feels like it's playing a game of Getting Over It.

Twinstars earlier suggested getting the chakra pathways stuffs to work by doping the seal, and that's a really good idea that I want to try. But it's one of those ideas that's engaging with the mechanics close to the bare metal wires of the simulation and I don't know where to put my hopes anymore. Are we just wasting our time trying little tricks like this when it'll just auto-unlock at ES 60 or something? Are we going to find out years down the line that we just needed to do something like this, and no amount of XP grind was going to cut it until we guess the one trick teetering on the edge of the black box? It's stressful to think about.
 
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Why would Hazōpilot say this much and wouldn't the sanity check have stopped him?

I think the issue is that we add in cute little lines and touches that...require some broken OPSEC. If we're naming it Inoite, it means we discovered it. Which means it will be questioned how we discovered it. Wanting to be sweet/romantic (as is the gesture of naming it after her), we reveal we made it and named it after her. Then comes the follow up of, again, how?

We back ourselves into corners.
 
I think the issue is that we add in cute little lines and touches that...require some broken OPSEC. If we're naming it Inoite, it means we discovered it. Which means it will be questioned how we discovered it. Wanting to be sweet/romantic (as is the gesture of naming it after her), we reveal we made it and named it after her. Then comes the follow up of, again, how?

We back ourselves into corners.

Which is exactly the sort of thing Kei and Mari would instantly catch in a sanity check.
 
Putting less and less faith in non-specific sanity checks seems smart. In my original draft of the plan, I asked Kei and Mari about this specifically, which left no ambiguity as to whether or not it would be caught.
 
I shouldn't be feeling this way about one more person who isn't even a Yamanaka. It's not fair to everyone else, and it's not how a clan head should feel
Sweetie no ;-;
"Why," Hazō said, "I can feel a limerick coming on already. There once was a lady from Leaf, whose pulchritude beggared—"
There once was a lady from Leaf,
Whose pulchritude beggared belief.
A mistress most dire,
For the foes of Fire,
I am proud to hold her for a lief.

Or, if you're looking for the more ribald limericks

There once was a lady from Leaf
Whose pulchritude beggared belief.
A man more courageous
Could say callipygeous
But if I did my life would be brief.
But I think what's really hit me, what's made it more than just another loss, was losing a future.
Gōketsu Hazō crafts futures the way an artisan crafts their crafts (or I, terrible similes). Sorry for your loss, but in advance, you're welcome for your gain.
The only model I've got is what happened to the Shikamaru/Kei/Tenten triad, and I don't think there's anything any of us could have done to make our relationship spin that far out of control.
Throwing shade huh
Every element had been condensed and toughened until the Sage himself would struggle to break it and claim the seven years' bad luck he was so very due.
I hope this is perceived as a compliment, because it is: sometimes you remind me of Douglas Adams through the sheer "I can do whatever I want with language"-ness of your writing.
 
I do remember QMs stating that we've done it so many times, that other characters will catch it less, as they see it as deliberate. Or maybe Mari/Kei aren't interested in sanity checking a date. Who knows? Could be either.
That was roughly my interpretation. If an OPSEC failure is sufficiently blatant, and there is a sufficiently plausible counterfactual ("Hazō trusts his girlfriend enough to reveal some of his secret capabilities to her"), then sanity-checkers may trust Hazō enough to assume the counterfactual.

(Arguably, Kei is still at fault here, because Hazō explicitly told her to stop having faith in him during the Isan mission.)
 
He brought forth the mirror, a work of art made with materials never before seen in this world. The surface was perfect, supernaturally-even reflective metal (which had taken aeons to make with Earthshaping's ability to only work metal in sheets thinner than his patience with Lord Hagoromo). The handle was a single silvery gem Hazō had invented himself by combining corundum with mica until he found something he thought Ino would like. Every element had been condensed and toughened until the Sage himself would struggle to break it and claim the seven years' bad luck he was so very due.
Point one: I'm hugely happy with how this turned out. This was/is the perfect gift for Ino and I'm thrilled that she loves it, as well as the descriptions etc.

I do hope that we get to revisit the conversation somewhat and let her know that the mirror won't break etc., as that seems like a good moment.

Point two: does the mirror have a weapons rating? Honestly the durability seems like it should give it one.
 
Um, were we not deliberately hands-off on OPSEC here, because we expect Ino to keep it quiet and because we're fine with whatever she does with the information she infers from the mirror's existence and because it's not like anything bad will happen even if we told her everything about Earthshaping? I... thought that was an implicit show of trust on our part?

It's been my impression that the fact that the mirror is an OPSEC breach was clear to everyone, both OOC and IC, so obvious that we didn't even bother clarifying that fact to the Hazoupilot, because we expected him to figure it out on his own.

Was that... not everyone's understanding of the plan? Um.

Pretty much this, we don't lose anything by letting Ino know. We still have minimum 4 months before there's even a chance that another ninja gets ES to 50. Tons of time to make money and let's us show that we trust Ino is a win
 
That was roughly my interpretation. If an OPSEC failure is sufficiently blatant, and there is a sufficiently plausible counterfactual ("Hazō trusts his girlfriend enough to reveal some of his secret capabilities to her"), then sanity-checkers may trust Hazō enough to assume the counterfactual.

(Arguably, Kei is still at fault here, because Hazō explicitly told her to stop having faith in him during the Isan mission.)

That is a bit strange. The whole point of Hazou sanity checking with Kei and Mari, is that he will, again and again do dumb stuff that almost get them killed and everyone knows it. Hazou just almost revealed the Iron Nerve to Shikamaru without doing it on purpose just...one chapter? two chapters ago?

Uhm...thinking about it, the real thing that gives me this strange feeling is: Even if they assume the counter-factual...it just doesn't come up in the discussion? They just silently nod and disappear instead of going "So we're telling Ino about ES, ok, how can we use it?"

Not that it's a big deal or anything, as i pointed out, i care more about not having the romantic scene than the OPSEC failure :V
But if it's true it's something we must deal with ASAP, sit down Mari and Kei and explain that we're really that dumb sometimes, next time it won't be Ino, but something more serious.
 
Twinstars earlier suggested getting the chakra pathways stuffs to work by doping the seal, and that's a really good idea that I want to try. But it's one of those ideas that's engaging with the mechanics close to the bare metal wires of the simulation and I don't know where to put my hopes anymore. Are we just wasting our time trying little tricks like this when it'll just auto-unlock at ES 60 or something? Are we going to find out years down the line that we just needed to do something like this, and no amount of XP grind was going to cut it until we guess the one trick teetering on the edge of the black box? It's stressful to think about.
Sad you feel that way. Something went astray if a reader recoils from heartfelt engagement with the story.
 
That was roughly my interpretation. If an OPSEC failure is sufficiently blatant, and there is a sufficiently plausible counterfactual ("Hazō trusts his girlfriend enough to reveal some of his secret capabilities to her"), then sanity-checkers may trust Hazō enough to assume the counterfactual.
All (or nearly all) the unforced errors I can remember Hazō making prior to this chapter were do to mistakes in our plans. But in this case, the plan didn't call for Hazō to reveal nearly as much information as he did (he could have, for instance, said that he made the mirror using earthshaping to stick together components he acquired elsewhere, or said nothing and kept it mysterious) and Hazōpilot's thinking, even in consultation with Mari and Kei, didn't result in a non-suspicious sensible outcome. So, if Hazōpilot is going to make these flubs entirely on his own (which, to be completely fair, makes perfect sense for his characterization after years of our own flawed plans) and doing a sanity check doesn't help... I mean, I can't say that isn't fair, or that it doesn't make sense, but it does incentivize us to make more rigid, paranoid plans, and I have to ask if the QMs actually want that.
 
Lovely chapter! I don't think Hazou should really be freaking out that much; just explain that we'll be going public with the methodology a few months down the line.
 
That was roughly my interpretation. If an OPSEC failure is sufficiently blatant, and there is a sufficiently plausible counterfactual ("Hazō trusts his girlfriend enough to reveal some of his secret capabilities to her"), then sanity-checkers may trust Hazō enough to assume the counterfactual.

(Arguably, Kei is still at fault here, because Hazō explicitly told her to stop having faith in him during the Isan mission.)
The thing that's getting me here is that Hazo is actively surprised by the outcomes.
"But the clarity… and this handle… what even is this?"

Hazō had been worried about what to do if she didn't ask.

"The purest Inoite," he said. "You're the only woman in the world who's ever seen this gem—and you can keep it that way if you like, or it can eventually make its way onto the market, and your name won't fade from this world for as long as there's a jewel trade."
Emphasis mine.

IMO this reads as 'Hazo has thought about this conversation to a sufficient degree that he has a plan to reveal the name of the material - specifically, he foresaw her asking about it and wanted to do it in this way exactly'. We're then immediately confronted with Hazo having seemingly put no further thought into what Ino's reaction to this reveal would be. This isn't just stupid (it is, IMO) but it's out of character. Hazo plans. He creates flowcharts for conversations, mentally if not on paper. Why did his flowchart end here? Why weren't there branches coming off of his answer?
Hazō opened his mouth.

He froze as he realized what he'd just said, and what he'd almost said. It was as if a bucket of cold water had been dumped over him.

"I… uh… trade secret?"
In addition to all of that, based on what you've said, he did sanity-check this with Kei and Mari. What I'm hearing you say is that they both heard him talk about how he was going to give this gift to Ino, that he was going to tell her it's Inoite (Hazo is way too happy with the mirror not to brag about this to them, and rightly so, it's a brilliant gift, whoever came up with this idea must be some sort of relationship genius) and then they both assumed that he had a plan for handling her questions despite him having literally nothing else to say on the topic - no mention of her anticipated reaction, no mention of questions he anticipates her asking, no mention of how he might field those questions. Someone who is notorious for planning conversations having literally zero strategy around something we have textual evidence he thought about to the point where he cuts the date off breaks my suspension of disbelief.

If this seems consistent to you, I'm fine with that, but my strong preference would be that the update be amended to end something like the below.
"You're saying you made this gem? Just for me?"

"Got it in one."

"How?"

Hazō shrugged enigmatically.

Ino kept staring. "You can make gems. You can make new gems. You can make new gems easily enough to just give them away as gifts. Hazō, this is huge. Do you realise what this can do to the entire jewellery trade? To the economy?"

Hazo sighed internally. Being in a relationship with a woman whose insight matched her beauty wasn't without drawbacks, but he'd imagined she'd have taken at least a minute to ooh and aah at the mirror before latching onto the implications.

He leaned forward.

"Well..."

-o-​

There was going to be another scene after this, but I wanted to give you a chance to respond to Ino, so I'm posting it now as is.

What do you do?
This removes the issues with Hazo not having had any degree of foresight, removes the issue of Kei/Mari not having sanity-checked this at all, and gives us an opportunity to Do The Thing, while still making us deal with the situation. I'd (personally) be happy to spend a FATE point or something to have this happen.

I want to underscore, I'm broadly quite happy with the update. This part is confusing me, and (seemingly) a bunch of other folks, too.
 
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